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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

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Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
1. Paragraphs are your friends.

2. You did not need to be a master to have a Padawan, being a Jedi Knight would suffice.

3. Dicking around with established canon is bad, and we "die hard" fans hate it, but there are people who think it all fits perfectly, though most of their reasoning is handwavium.

4. The cruiser may or may not of crashed, though I personally think it unfeasible that it would have crashed due to it's energy projector being shot... It's engines maybe, but not the energy projector, unless the powerplant is directly above it.

You can see it burning, crashing to the ground.


You only see an explosion/fire around the impact point of the mass driver round.


It still hits dirt though right after being hit. This can be seen happening in the background in all of the shots focusing on the Autumn lifting off.

Now whether or not it can be repaired and become space worthy again is up for grabs and in all likely hood it could be since it crashed flat on the ground relatively intact.

Either way, point is that the mass driver round sufficiently damaged the cruiser enough to make it crash in the first place though.
I just watched the ending cutscene, and you barely see the cruiser go below the cliff edge. So apparently damaging its energy projector is enough to ground it.

That makes no sense. Covenant ships can have holes in them from MAC rounds, and keep fighting, yet disabling one energy projector does enough damage to ground it? Makes no sense.


Indeed. The Brute ship from Contact Harvest was able to limp away after being hit from the Mass Driver. Perhaps it was quite the critical hit for a cruiser to be hit directly at the glassing port.

  • 03.13.2011 8:50 PM PDT


Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Vegerot
Got a problem with what I just said? Complain here, http://www.halopedian.com/Talk:Halo:_Reach !
I couldn't tell where what you were saying and who you were trying to quote without the quoteboxes began. Therefore I didn't read your incomprehensible wall of text.


I couldn't tell either, I tried reading it, but due to it being incomprehensible I just skimmed it.

EDIT: Ok, reading it on the talk page for Halo: Reach on Halopedian, it is obvious now whose side you fall on or lean more too, welcome to the team Vegerot :) *shakes hand*

[Edited on 03.13.2011 9:14 PM PDT]

  • 03.13.2011 8:59 PM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
1. Paragraphs are your friends.

2. You did not need to be a master to have a Padawan, being a Jedi Knight would suffice.

3. Dicking around with established canon is bad, and we "die hard" fans hate it, but there are people who think it all fits perfectly, though most of their reasoning is handwavium.

4. The cruiser may or may not of crashed, though I personally think it unfeasible that it would have crashed due to it's energy projector being shot... It's engines maybe, but not the energy projector, unless the powerplant is directly above it.

You can see it burning, crashing to the ground.


You only see an explosion/fire around the impact point of the mass driver round.

It still hits dirt though right after being hit. This can be seen happening in the background in all of the shots focusing on the Autumn lifting off.

Now whether or not it can be repaired and become space worthy again is up for grabs and in all likely hood it could be since it crashed flat on the ground relatively intact.

Either way, point is that the mass driver round sufficiently damaged the cruiser enough to make it crash in the first place though.
I just watched the ending cutscene, and you barely see the cruiser go below the cliff edge. So apparently damaging its energy projector is enough to ground it.

That makes no sense. Covenant ships can have holes in them from MAC rounds, and keep fighting, yet disabling one energy projector does enough damage to ground it? Makes no sense.


Indeed. The Brute ship from Contact Harvest was able to limp away after being hit from the Mass Driver. Perhaps it was quite the critical hit for a cruiser to be hit directly at the glassing port.


There are a lot of instances in the books where covenant ships have kept operating after being shot by a MAC, what I'm saying is that if a ship of that class can keep going after being shot by a frigate MAC, then it seems unfeasible that a ground based Mass Driver cannon could do that kind of fatal damage. Yes, I know it was shot through the energy projector, and I know that may have been a "critical hit" of sorts, but I still don't like the idea.

  • 03.14.2011 7:20 AM PDT

This is another reason why Halo Reach is a piece of shi.t, it doesn't follow the Halo books. The SPARTAN II program was on Reach, the SPARTAN III program was on Onyx. Halo Reach appearently uses this as an extremely ga.y excuse why the spartans in this game are so small.

  • 03.14.2011 8:37 AM PDT


Posted by: XXxHaLoMaster
This is another reason why Halo Reach is a piece of shi.t, it doesn't follow the Halo books. The SPARTAN II program was on Reach, the SPARTAN III program was on Onyx. Halo Reach appearently uses this as an extremely ga.y excuse why the spartans in this game are so small.


The training for the Spartan IIIs was on Onyx, the IIIs, however, were not kept on Onyx, that'd just be dumb, they were deployed all throughout UNSC space in the war against the Covenant, so what the hell does your point about the SIIs training on Reach and the IIIs training on Onyx have to do with anything? It is not an excuse for why Noble Team, except for Jorge, are a little smaller, it is why they are a little smaller. Everyone knew that Noble Team were going to be IIIs ever since we first knew anything definite about Reach.

  • 03.14.2011 9:48 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

What if Bungie made the game timeline more like this: (Keep in mind all media states the MAIN Covenant fleet arrives on August 30)

August 28: Noble Actual, Winter Contingency, Sword Base, Nightfall (The Covenant invasion is not yet planet wide, Winter Contingency is put in to delay the purging of data because of Reach's importance)
August 29: Tip of the Spear, Long Night of Solace, Exodus, New Alexandria (The Covenant fleet arrives)
August 30: The Package, Pillar of Autumn (With time zones it could argue that Reach/book canon is only different by a few hours.)

Changes (These are not all of my changes, only the major ones)
-We are told as to why the spartans were pulled out of Alpha (perhaps their superior combat skills?)
-We find out WC was put in place to delay the purging of data. Within a day WC is overwritten.
-We are told all ships retreat away from the Supercarrier, as Kats plan is the best option with minimal casualties (seriously, it's 27km long. 20 MACs aren't taking it out)
-We find out what happens to Colonel freaking Holland.
-Kat is killed by a Spec Ops Elite with an Energy Sword.
-In addition, in the final mission the Autumn is not on land and Noble does not meet Keyes in person (though they still make contact). Instead roughly 7 Pelicans and a few Longswords arrive to pick up the package, and the MAC cannon is used by 6 to stop the cruiser and the phantoms, because obviously a few longswords and pelicans can't take down a cruiser.

Would that at all help?

[Edited on 03.14.2011 5:23 PM PDT]

  • 03.14.2011 5:16 PM PDT
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Reach falling in a day or two when it was first found would leave many logistical problems.

  • 03.14.2011 5:21 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: manwith
Reach falling in a day or two when it was first found would leave many logistical problems.


You can't be serious.

  • 03.14.2011 5:52 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: manwith
Reach falling in a day or two when it was first found would leave many logistical problems.


You can't be serious.


Probably better to clarify a point here:

Reach's defences were overwhelmed in a day [August 30 2552] however, ground engagements continued on for some time until ground forces were eventually completely overwhelmed by Covenant forces. First Strike elaborates to some extent on this point.

The reason why the game alters the cannon is due to it's inclusion of either event's that did not take place in the original cannon [The Autumn being on Reach with MC on board during the invasion, etc] or the cut and pasting of later events into an earlier timeslot [Instead of the Covenant arriving on Aug. 30, they arrive a week or so before it, etc]

Come to think of it, if they had placed the events that NOBLE participates in after August 30, the game might have made a bit more sense whilst at the same time keeping the sanctity and integrity of the original cannon [books and previous games] intact.

  • 03.14.2011 6:09 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Winter Contingency is put in to delay the purging of data because of Reach's importance)


Maybe I'm reading into Winter Contingency incorrectly but from reading this, I get the feeling that both Winter Contingency and the Cole Protocol work together.

Of course, that's just me.

Also, I'd probably split Nightfall between the 28th and 29th.

  • 03.14.2011 6:51 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Winter Contingency is put in to delay the purging of data because of Reach's importance)


Maybe I'm reading into Winter Contingency incorrectly but from reading this, I get the feeling that both Winter Contingency and the Cole Protocol work together.

Of course, that's just me.

Also, I'd probably split Nightfall between the 28th and 29th.
Perhaps Winter Contingency is the first stage of Cole Protocol in the case of planetary invasion?

  • 03.14.2011 7:10 PM PDT

Erroneous data due to planet-wide destruction and purging databases. Glassing itself was greatly exaggerated... no planet was ever fully glassed. Also, ONI censorship and secrecy messed with the data for political reasons.

Think of it like the great flood stories of Earth. All similar, but varying. Still happened.

  • 03.15.2011 8:44 PM PDT
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july 24,2552 0728 Hours: Noble Team is ordered to investigate a possible Insurrectionist activity at the disabled Visegrad Relay. Shortly after, the team learns that the Covenant are responsible for the attack on the relay. After retaking the relay, Noble Team discovers a data module on one of the dead staff. WINTER CONTINGENCY is declared.
July 26, 2552Edit
1128 hours: A Covenant corvette attacks ONI Sword Base. Noble Team is deployed to secure the base and surrounding outposts. After the corvette is destroyed by orbital bombardment, Noble Team meets up with Dr. Halsey and hands over the data module retrieved from Visegrad Relay.
August 12th, 2552Edit
0800 hours: The UNSC Army begins a full scale assault on the Viery Territory. Noble Team is sent to gather intelligence of Covenant-occupied sites and to destroy a EMP-emitting Covenant tower. The UNSC learn too late that the tower served as a teleporter linked to a cloaked Covenant Supercarrier. The UNSC Grafton and several other ships during the attack destroyed by the Supercarrier.
2007 hours: Covenant invasion of Reach is fully underway. Noble Team begins developing a plan to destroy the enemy Supercarrier with a Shaw-Fujikawa Translight Engine used as a makeshift bomb. Auntie Dot informs Noble Team that 60% of the UNSC fleet is in route to Reach, the first battlegroup is set to enter the system in 48 hours.
August 14th, 2552Edit
1248 hours: Noble Team assaults and retakes the Sabre Launch Facility and use it as a staging point for a battle above Reach. Using the Slipspace Drive from the UNSC Savannah, Noble Team disables and boards one of the Covenant corvettes and use it as the detonation point for the bomb. Due to a malfunction with the triggering mechanism, a member of Noble Team is forced to detonate the bomb manually. The Supercarrier is destroyed just as a Covenant Fleet arrives above Reach.
1248 hours: Covenant forces once again attack Sword Base and occupy the site. Dr. Halsey escapes capture by hiding under the facility.
August 23, 2552Edit
1534 hours: The Covenant fleet begins glassing targeted areas of Reach, and a battle breaks out in New Alexandria. Noble Six and remaining Army infantrymen assist in the evacuation of civilians from the city.
1857 hours: Noble Six links up with the rest of Noble Team. The team destroys three jammers installed by the Covenant, allowing the UNSC to safely evacuate all personnel from the ONI HQ. When the team reunites, they are debriefed by their supervisor to proceed to Sword Base. Another member of Noble Team is killed by sniper fire.
August 26, 2552Edit
The remnants of Noble Team are extracted by a Pelican from the ruins of New Alexandria.
August 29, 2552Edit
SPARTAN-B312 and a team of ODSTs secure a landing zone for Noble Team's Falcon. Later Noble Team proceed inside Sword Base only to learn their true mission: escort a part of Cortana to the Pillar of Autumn.
August 30, 2552Edit
0447 Hours: The Remote Scanning Outpost Fermion detects more incoming Covenant vessels. An emergency message is relayed to FLEETCOM. The outpost then self-destructs per the Cole Protocol due to an unsecured science library and nearby Covenant forces.
0500 Hours: Another fleet of 314[15] Covenant vessels exits slipspace on the edge of the system.
0517 Hours: Admiral Roland Freemont (FLEETCOM Sector One Commander) issues a general order to all vessels in the Reach, Jericho, and Tantalus systems.[16] All vessels and stations initiate the Cole Protocol and rush to Rally Point ZULU.
0534 Hours: Covenant vessels make pinpoint slipspace jumps attempting to destroy any incoming or outgoing human vessels before they can regroup. A Covenant Carrier targets the UNSC Pillar of Autumn, but is destroyed.
0545 Hours: The Covenant vessels begin a frontal assault. As the Covenant and human fleets engage above Reach, it seems to be a stalemate, as Covenant ships take out UNSC ships, while the UNSC ships and MAC cannons take out an equal number. The first salvo by the UNSC vessels destroys a third of the remaining Covenant fleet. A Covenant supercruiser arrives and destroys several UNSC ships while outside human weapons range.
0558 Hours: Station Gamma Dockmaster AI Doppler is unable to implement the Cole Protocol on the UNSC Circumference, an ONI prowler docked at Reach Station Gamma, due to measures taken to maintain the secrecy of Operation: HYPODERMIC. Doppler sends priority message to FLEETCOM concerning this violation. Covenant intrusion software detects this oversight, and the Covenant deploys troops to seize the NAV database aboard the Circumference.
0616 Hours: The SPARTAN-IIs are dispatched from the Pillar of Autumn. John-117, Linda-058, and James form Blue Team and go aboard the Dock to destroy the Circumference, while the remaining SPARTAN-IIs form Red Team and head down to the surface of Reach to defend the power generators for the MAC guns. James goes MIA when a Needler hits his thruster pack and propels him into space during combat. Blue Team continue through the station, rescuing Staff Sergeant Johnson; Private O'Brien, Private Bisenti, and Pvt. Wallace A. Jenkins from Kig-yar and Sangheili.
0620 Hours: Most of the Covenant fleet retreats from the system after deploying more dropships toward the surface. The UNSC fleet fires on the ships, destroying many although hundreds still land on Reach.
0621 Hours: The boarding craft are landed and the armory is overrun; the Covenant fleet re-returns to the system. The Covenant split their 150+ remaining ships. One fleet attacks the UNSC ships, while another takes out the MAC cannons and send in troops to land on Reach. The UNSC try to split their 50+ remaining forces to engage the Covenant, but there are too many platforms to cover and too many casualties. The Supercruiser continues to destroy UNSC ships, allowing the other ships to attack the MACs. Eventually the supercruiser was destroyed by the Pillar of Autumn, but the UNSC fleet is practically decimated so it is too late to do any good.
0631 Hours: Red Team's Pelican is shot down. They have no choice but to jump from the crashing Pelican and make a "hard landing" on the ground. Results in four dead and six seriously injured.
0637 Hours: John-117, the clinically dead Linda-058, and the Marines board the Pillar of Autumn.
0647 Hours: The Pillar of Autumn attempts to retreat from the system, but remains there for unknown reasons and heads for a drydock at the Aszod ship breaking yards on Reach, possibly .
0649 Hours: Red Team sets up defenses around ODG Facility A-331.
0711 Hours: Fred-104, Joshua-029, and Kelly-087 plant a nuclear warhead through the gravity lift in a landing Covenant cruiser, leaving Joshua-029 MIA, (presumed KIA) in the process.
0720 Hours: The Covenant destroys ODG Facility A-331 by aerial bombardment, though some Spartans escape. The surviving MAC guns are now offline and are quickly destroyed by plasma torpedoes. Remaining UNSC vessels have no choice but to retreat. The Covenant warships are split into two groups: five ship teams that hunt down the surviving UNSC vessels and a group of ships that align themselves in formation and begin to glass Reach.
1652 hours: The remainder of Noble Team head to the Aszod ship breaking yards to deliver a fragment of Cortana, which holds important navigation data, to the Pillar of Autumn. SPARTAN-B312 successfully delivers the package to the Autumn and allows the vessel to escape by destroying an incoming Covenant battlecruiser. The Pillar of Autumn, pursued by a dozen Covenant vessels, retreats from the system, heading for Installation 04.
2000 Hours: SPARTAN-B312 is one of the few standing survivors at the ship-breaking yards of Aszod and the planet Reach. The SPARTAN makes a final stand, fighting off waves of Covenant forces, until eventually being overwhelmed and then finally killed by a squad of 7 Sangheili warriors.
September 2552Edit
September 7th
0002 Hours: The SPARTAN Red team survivors and Dr. Halsey, after days of walking through the abandoned Titanium mines below CASTLE base, reach a corridor covered in Forerunner symbols.
Shortly afterwards: A series of detonations by Covenant forces looking for them cause the deaths of Vinh-030 and Isaac-039.
September 11th-12th
Unknown time: The Installation 04 survivors arrive at Reach, having experienced a temporal anomaly sending them nearly two weeks into the past.

i found this on the halo wikia, it helped solve alot

[Edited on 03.15.2011 9:02 PM PDT]

  • 03.15.2011 9:01 PM PDT
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and about the problam about all of alpha and beta companies being killed, on the wikia it says noble team was polled out of the companies b4 they all died

  • 03.15.2011 9:04 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Kashmir A17
Erroneous data due to planet-wide destruction and purging databases. Glassing itself was greatly exaggerated... no planet was ever fully glassed. Also, ONI censorship and secrecy messed with the data for political reasons.

Think of it like the great flood stories of Earth. All similar, but varying. Still happened.

The Covenant did indeed glass entire planets. They saw humanity as a virus so they would "cleanse" the world of that impurity. Although, glassing didn't occur until the Hierarchs deemed them filth.

  • 03.16.2011 3:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Kashmir A17
Erroneous data due to planet-wide destruction and purging databases. Glassing itself was greatly exaggerated... no planet was ever fully glassed. Also, ONI censorship and secrecy messed with the data for political reasons.

Think of it like the great flood stories of Earth. All similar, but varying. Still happened.

The Covenant did indeed glass entire planets. They saw humanity as a virus so they would "cleanse" the world of that impurity. Although, glassing didn't occur until the Hierarchs deemed them filth.


No, they did not. They glassed major cities and UNSC controlled bases but never the entire planet. Harvest is a good example which had lasted 5 years and max. only 1/3 of the surface was glassed. Nevertheless, the UNSC retook it.

The reason people thought they had glassed entire planets was because nobody left watching.

  • 03.16.2011 4:29 AM PDT


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Kashmir A17
Erroneous data due to planet-wide destruction and purging databases. Glassing itself was greatly exaggerated... no planet was ever fully glassed. Also, ONI censorship and secrecy messed with the data for political reasons.

Think of it like the great flood stories of Earth. All similar, but varying. Still happened.

The Covenant did indeed glass entire planets. They saw humanity as a virus so they would "cleanse" the world of that impurity. Although, glassing didn't occur until the Hierarchs deemed them filth.


No, they did not. They glassed major cities and UNSC controlled bases but never the entire planet. Harvest is a good example which had lasted 5 years and max. only 1/3 of the surface was glassed. Nevertheless, the UNSC retook it.

The reason people thought they had glassed entire planets was because nobody left watching.


Indeed, the UNSC never stayed around to watch the entire glassing, and besides Harvest we have never been told of them returning to a glassed planet.

[Edited on 03.16.2011 4:57 AM PDT]

  • 03.16.2011 4:56 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Kashmir A17
Erroneous data due to planet-wide destruction and purging databases. Glassing itself was greatly exaggerated... no planet was ever fully glassed. Also, ONI censorship and secrecy messed with the data for political reasons.

Think of it like the great flood stories of Earth. All similar, but varying. Still happened.

The Covenant did indeed glass entire planets. They saw humanity as a virus so they would "cleanse" the world of that impurity. Although, glassing didn't occur until the Hierarchs deemed them filth.


No, they did not. They glassed major cities and UNSC controlled bases but never the entire planet. Harvest is a good example which had lasted 5 years and max. only 1/3 of the surface was glassed. Nevertheless, the UNSC retook it.

The reason people thought they had glassed entire planets was because nobody left watching.


Indeed, the UNSC never stayed around to watch the entire glassing, and besides Harvest we have never been told of them returning to a glassed planet.


And not to mention the Assembly says that it would be pretty much physically impossible to glass the entire thing, and not to mention an inefficient waste of time.

  • 03.16.2011 11:54 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

THE ASSEMBLY IS AN ONI COVERUP.

  • 03.16.2011 12:13 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
THE ASSEMBLY IS AN ONI COVERUP.


Same could be said for half the information we have about the Halo Universe.

  • 03.16.2011 12:21 PM PDT

Anyone else notice this also, in cryptum it obviously explains how humans and the forerunners had a war 1000 years ago and the the things that happened as a result of that. All in all it says that humans coexisted with forerunners.

If you'll turn to page 274 of Contact harvest, Mendacate Bias says to the prophets of truth, mercy, and regret aboard the forerunner dreadnaught: "FOR EONS I HAVE WATCHED" "LISTEND TO YOU MISINTERPRET" "THIS IS NOT RECLAMATION" "THIS IS RECLAIMER" this is the key piece of information that contradicts everything that cryptum says, "AND THOSE IT REPRESENTS ARE MY MAKERS" "MY MAKERS ARE MY MASTERS" "I WILL BRING THEM SAFELY TO THE ARK"

... anyone understand this?

  • 03.16.2011 12:37 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
THE ASSEMBLY IS AN ONI COVERUP.


Same could be said for half the information we have about the Halo Universe.


HALO REACH IS ALL ONI PROPAGANDA.

Actually I kinda buy that one...Legendary edition comes in a crate with the letter saying "this is the most accurate depiction of the battle we could piece together" or something like that. ONI probably made the battle seem like it was drawn out and we barely lost it, rather than let the public know what a bloodbath it was...

  • 03.16.2011 1:25 PM PDT

Only, it didn't make it seem like it was 'barely lost'. Though, what's stopping the other games from being ONI coverups? What if the Covenant really didn't fight each other, and we got lucky with a tiny splinter faction helping us and the rest are out there waiting to strike?

  • 03.16.2011 1:47 PM PDT

every notice that there was A powerful hurricane? on reachs viery continent? that looks like a good cover up for destruction and lost communications of bases, citys, ETC

  • 03.16.2011 2:17 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Only, it didn't make it seem like it was 'barely lost'. Though, what's stopping the other games from being ONI coverups?


Because the other games didn't come with a letter saying this is "as close as we can piece together" or whatever. I'll post the letter later.

  • 03.16.2011 2:17 PM PDT