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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
In sword base it sounds more like ground-based Artillery by the banter between Kat and Sword Control...



"Sword Control I see a target locator. Any artillery support in the area?"

How? The only thing that's said about it is if there's any artillery support in the area. There's nothing from that particular dialogue to imply either way if it's ground or space based really.

  • 03.25.2011 1:44 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
In sword base it sounds more like ground-based Artillery by the banter between Kat and Sword Control...



"Sword Control I see a target locator. Any artillery support in the area?"

How? The only thing that's said about it is if there's any artillery support in the area. There's nothing from that particular dialogue to imply either way if it's ground or space based really.


True I suppose, though I don't view strikes from orbit as 'artillery' personally, I view those as orbital bombardments...

Probably just something that I do...

  • 03.25.2011 1:51 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
In sword base it sounds more like ground-based Artillery by the banter between Kat and Sword Control...



"Sword Control I see a target locator. Any artillery support in the area?"

How? The only thing that's said about it is if there's any artillery support in the area. There's nothing from that particular dialogue to imply either way if it's ground or space based really.


True I suppose, though I don't view strikes from orbit as 'artillery' personally, I view those as orbital bombardments...

Probably just something that I do...

No. I agree with you. Artillery is a vague term, but it's USUALLY to describe ground based bombardments.

If it's orbital, it will more likely be referred to as orbital support. If it's an air strike; air support. It's just how people use the term, so I feel that artillery means non-orbital strikes unless clearly stated otherwise.

  • 03.25.2011 2:02 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

One thing has been bugging me in Reach though, how did the Sword Control guy survive? He tells you about the Wolf-Spider Turrets before you defend Halsey's lab. Must be one resilient mofo.

  • 03.25.2011 9:21 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

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Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
One thing has been bugging me in Reach though, how did the Sword Control guy survive? He tells you about the Wolf-Spider Turrets before you defend Halsey's lab. Must be one resilient mofo.


Yes that's what I was thinking too. Personally I think he's not a person, but one of Halsey's AIs, but I have nothing to really back that up other than the fact that he's alive despite the Air Field being leveled and no one else living in sight of the base not counting the Falcons in the air.

  • 03.25.2011 9:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I am surprised nobody has even asked what data cortanan got from the database that was so important. because it wasn't halo's location.

  • 03.26.2011 6:34 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I am surprised nobody has even asked what data cortanan got from the database that was so important. because it wasn't halo's location.


I'm pretty sure they had no reason. Cheap plot device for both fan service and lack of ideas. Chances are they didn't know what important thing Noble team could do, and failed to make them do something that fitted with the rest of the series, probably because they didn't need another story to explain anything they could explain in a game, on Reach.

  • 03.26.2011 8:10 AM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
One thing has been bugging me in Reach though, how did the Sword Control guy survive? He tells you about the Wolf-Spider Turrets before you defend Halsey's lab. Must be one resilient mofo.


Yes that's what I was thinking too. Personally I think he's not a person, but one of Halsey's AIs, but I have nothing to really back that up other than the fact that he's alive despite the Air Field being leveled and no one else living in sight of the base not counting the Falcons in the air.


Or he was evacuated and sent a message concerning the lab defenses to Noble Team.

Halsey did mention there was a group who refused to leave, he might have been one of them. (Memory from the Journal)

I'd also have to figure He'd be inside Sword Base, and not the airfield during the sword base mission.

  • 03.26.2011 8:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: grey101
I am surprised nobody has even asked what data cortanan got from the database that was so important. because it wasn't halo's location.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I did on one of my previous posts :)
Definitely not Halo's location...
Still haven't figured out how Cortana knew about Halo 4B or the Ark, seeing as Guilty Spark didn't know what the Ark did (not completely, anyway).
One person has offered the Gravemind/Medicant Bias as a possible solution, but I still feel uncomfortable with that.
Also feel uncomfortable with the solution that Cortana found it out from Reach's database..?
Well, I'm out of ideas. Maybe it's something to do with the Precursors...or the fact that humans once had a great(ish) space-faring civilization before the war(s) with the Flood and the Forerunners. I don't know.
@Evil Johnny
I don't think Bungie is that cheap...they might not have it entirely planned out but I'm pretty sure they've done some planning with 343i...after all, 343i does have a handful of ex-Bungie employees.
Btw...in case you hadn't noticed...my answer to the Halsey/Noble Team problem is on the previous page.

[Edited on 03.26.2011 9:27 AM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 9:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Astronut7
Posted by: grey101
I am surprised nobody has even asked what data cortanan got from the database that was so important. because it wasn't halo's location.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I did on one of my previous posts :)
Definitely not Halo's location...
Still haven't figured out how Cortana knew about Halo 4B or the Ark, seeing as Guilty Spark didn't know what the Ark did (not completely, anyway).
One person has offered the Gravemind/Medicant Bias as a possible solution, but I still feel uncomfortable with that.
Also feel uncomfortable with the solution that Cortana found it out from Reach's database..?
Well, I'm out of ideas. Maybe it's something to do with the Precursors...or the fact that humans once had a great(ish) space-faring civilization before the war(s) with the Flood and the Forerunners. I don't know.
@Evil Johnny
I don't think Bungie is that cheap...they might not have it entirely planned out but I'm pretty sure they've planned it with 343i...after all, 343i does have a handful of Bungie employees.
Btw...in case you hadn't noticed...my answer to the Halsey/Noble Team problem is on the previous page.


I say she knew of the got her knowledge from the time she spent in halo's control center. OR from her time in high charity's systems she found out what truth and regret knew and warned john.

  • 03.26.2011 9:28 AM PDT
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@Grey 101
That's Halo 04's control center, right?
The monitor of installation 04 (Guilty Spark) would have all access to his own systems. If he didn't know about Halo 04B, then the chances of Cortana finding out from the same information is remote.

Truth and Regret only knew that the Ark would activate all the Halo Installations--exactly what the humans knew, except they disagreed to what the end result of activating those installations would be--she probably found out that the Ark was on the other side of the "Portal" from High Charity.

But in the level Floodgate (Halo 3), the recording of Cortana specifically states that there was a way to beat the Flood without firing the remaining Halo rings.
If this means fire Installation 04B, then where did she get her information from? If this means something else, then what is it, and where did she get her information from?

[Edited on 03.26.2011 9:37 AM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 9:37 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

If I had to guess she just wanted Chief to come save her, or give a reason to do so. She was, figuratively, being raped by the Gravemind and was rampant. She'd likely do anything to get out of that situation.

Or, she gained some piece of information from the Gravemind while she was under his control.

  • 03.26.2011 9:40 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I am surprised nobody has even asked what data cortanan got from the database that was so important. because it wasn't halo's location.


It might have been what allowed her to interpret the Sigma Rock, and may very well have been partially what informed her of the Ark. The Gravemind and the systems of High Charity might have helped some as well.

[Edited on 03.26.2011 9:46 AM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 9:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Astronut7
@Grey 101
That's Halo 04's control center, right?
The monitor of installation 04 (Guilty Spark) would have all access to his own systems. If he didn't know about Halo 04B, then the chances of Cortana finding out from the same information is remote.

Truth and Regret only knew that the Ark would activate all the Halo Installations--exactly what the humans knew, except they disagreed to what the end result of activating those installations would be--she probably found out that the Ark was on the other side of the "Portal" from High Charity.

But in the level Floodgate (Halo 3), the recording of Cortana specifically states that there was a way to beat the Flood without firing the remaining Halo rings.
If this means fire Installation 04B, then where did she get her information from? If this means something else, then what is it, and where did she get her information from?


Compartmentalization, 343 might have thought he knew his installation in and out but i am sure More details would be in the database. The forerunners couldn't just assume that humanity would find all of thier relics, so why not put a great deal amount of information across sources? That would increase the chance of it being found.

I don't think she knew of the Ark in that detail and i think you are thinking about it too far. Cortana simply had the key from installation 4 and nothing was ever done with it which made for a plot device. All cortana ever said about the key was " I kept it safe, just incase." which speaks for itself.

  • 03.26.2011 9:52 AM PDT
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@privet caboose
Again, gravemind letting Cortana know=very stupid Gravemind. If I remember the Halo Evolutions story correctly, then Cortana was being attacked so much, and so effectively, that it was all she could do to get that message to the Chief, let alone steal the info as another possibility...although, didn't the Gravemind let her do that for some reason?
The gravemind knowing from Medicant Bias makes sense, but I don't think that a) The Gravemind would let Cortana know (no gain) and b) Cortana was far too weak to steal that information from the Gravemind.

Very interesting idea about Cortana lying...it would pose some interesting developement for a sequel Halo 4...

  • 03.26.2011 9:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Astronut7
@privet caboose
Again, gravemind letting Cortana know=very stupid Gravemind. If I remember the Halo Evolutions story correctly, then Cortana was being attacked so much, and so effectively, that it was all she could do to get that message to the Chief, let alone steal the info as another possibility...although, didn't the Gravemind let her do that for some reason?
The gravemind knowing from Medicant Bias makes sense, but I don't think that a) The Gravemind would let Cortana know (no gain) and b) Cortana was far too weak to steal that information from the Gravemind.

Very interesting idea about Cortana lying...it would pose some interesting developement for a sequel Halo 4...


Or the Gravemind overwhelmed her with knowledge inorder to break her and that might have been some info gleamed.And Cortana did get inside the gravemind and get information but i belive that was after the message was sent.

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101
I am surprised nobody has even asked what data cortanan got from the database that was so important. because it wasn't halo's location.


It might have been what allowed her to interpret the Sigma Rock, and may very well have been partially what informed her of the Ark. The Gravemind and the systems of High Charity might have helped some as well.


(Going off memory) i was under the impresssion that the rock was decoded before reach.

  • 03.26.2011 9:56 AM PDT
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@grey101
A more effective compartmentalization would be to not have that info in the Halo 04 database AND not have Guilty Spark know it at all. Which I think is what the Forerunners actually did.
And...I'm not the one thinking about it in this in too much detail. It's Bungie. I completely missed this entire problem until it was pointed out in one of the extra stories at the back of the new edition of Halo: The Flood

[Edited on 03.26.2011 10:04 AM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 10:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Astronut7
@grey101
A more effective compartmentalization would be to not have that info in the database AND not have Guilty Spark know it at all. Which I think is what the Forerunners actually did.
And...I'm not the one thinking about it in this in too much detail. It's Bungie. I completely missed this entire problem until it was pointed out in one of the extra stories at the back of the new edition of Halo: The Flood


Compartmentalization is the limiting of information to a person, not the absence of it.

343 knew of the ark,though it wasn't much he did know of it.
So the forerunners leaving extra information in the databanks without letting 343 know doesn't harm anything and is the smarter thing to do, becuase other than that i see no way of how they would find out about the ark. Seeing how you need a keyship to use the portal.

  • 03.26.2011 10:05 AM PDT
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@grey101
What happens if the entire installation is compromised by the flood?
Like at Halo 05--the Gravemind had access to the teleportation system, Penitant Tangent, and I assume it had access to the database as well.

[Edited on 03.26.2011 10:15 AM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 10:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Astronut7
@grey101
What happens if the entire installation is compromised by the flood?
Like at Halo 05--the Gravemind had access to the teleportation system, Penitant Tangent, and I assume it had access to the database as well.


I am sure it couldn't interface with halo's controls, becuase if he could then he wouldn't be on the planet. And you just proved my point, Gravemind had access to 2401 and still couldn't do anything other than teleport (which cortana could also do).

You not going anywhere with this.

  • 03.26.2011 10:17 AM PDT


Posted by: Astronut7
@Evil Johnny

Okay, the bit that everyone is thinking of runs like this:

Mendez and Colonel Ackerson had had decades to produce and train two or three generations. If this were true, then why had she never heard of these Spartans? Keeping a pilot program secret was one thing; keeping dozens of next-generation Spartans who were likely fighting and winning battles hidden was another matter entirely.
The implications of that silence chilled her to the bone.
..................Since Ackerson could not destroy her Spartan program, he had funded and recruited trainers for his own? It chilled her to think what shortcuts he might be taking and what he might be doing with his own private army of Spartans. (Ghosts of Onyx, Chapter Twenty)

There is also another bit previously in the chapter where Halsey didn't recognise the Spartan-IIIs because they wore SPI armour. Noble Team seemed to wear similar armour to the Spartan-IIs.

HOWEVER, here is another quote:
Dr. Halsey had taken the liberty of rifling Colonel Ackerson's top-secret files on Reach before the Covenant destroyed the facility.......The last bread crumb in this long trail was an encrypted folder in Ackerson's secret files, the one labeled "S-III." In it were extensive medical records on her SPARTAN-IIs.............Ackerson's "S-III." This was an obvious reference to SPARTAN-III. What else could it be with all the Spartan biomedical data he had accumulated in that folder? (Ghosts of Onyx, Chapter Sixteen)
I will keep reading...but so far there doesn't seem to be anything negating the possibility that Halsey met Noble Team.

I really do see how people can remember the quote from chapter twenty and think that Halsey had never even heard of the Spartan-IIIs. I didn't remember either quote, so I guess I just got lucky. :)


Interesting. But it doesn't mean much so far unfortunately. Nothing tells us whether or not Halsey decrypted the info she got on Reach, on Reach. And as for the SPI armor thing, we'd have to know whether or not she knew about additional Spartans back on Reach. Maybe by not recognizing the Spartan IIIs she principally meant they were no Spartan IIs, highlighted by the fact that they didn't have Spartan II armor, but Noble team not having SPI armor didn't disable her from realizing they were no Spartan II, she only knew Jorge anyway. So I think you'll need to keep reading :P

  • 03.26.2011 10:19 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Evil Johnny

Posted by: Astronut7
@Evil Johnny
Going to have to read Ghosts of Onyx again to see if there aren't any loopholes. Be back to you in a couple of days on that one.


Been some time since I read the book, but as far as I remember she was surprised about new Spartans. I also read other members saying this in Reach threads. But I guess actually reading it will tell us whether we have a good memory or not.


She was surprised thought she didn't visably show it. she naturally assumed it was ackerson and wondered at the shortcuts in augmentation he had took.

I guess she would've already thought about that if she met Spartans she didn't know on Reach. Obviously the Reach story was only thought of when they were making the game, but I'm wondering how well they implemented it in the established canon.

  • 03.26.2011 10:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: Telec

Posted by: Primum Agmen
Hooray for poor houses!

Damn straight

Posted by: privet caboose


Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



It says in Halopedia that they where pulled out of the company by Kurt- 051 and Mendez before Operation: PROMETHEUS

  • 03.26.2011 10:26 AM PDT
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@grey101
Couldn't interface with Halo's controls...
Can interface with AI & monitors, but not controls...I'm not quite sure how that's possible...
We never saw what else the gravemind could or could not do...but I am sure that the no.1 thing that the Forerunners wouldn't want is a gravemind with an ability to break containment by teleporting on the Halo Ring.
There are no ships on Halo with the ability for interstellar transport. I am sure the first thing the forerunners did with Halo (after maneuvering them into position) is to remove it's slipspace drive.

Again, what happens if the entire installation is overun by Flood? Not having that info anywhere on the Halo Ring is the safest bet.

  • 03.26.2011 10:33 AM PDT


Posted by: KROOKA
Posted by: privet caboose


Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



It says in Halopedia that they where pulled out of the company by Kurt- 051 and Mendez before Operation: PROMETHEUS


That's weird, on the contrary of Spartans II, they were made to be expendable and thus work in big groups. Why didn't Ackerson made a couple of real Spartans II if he wanted a small spec-ops group? That kind of works against the whole reason he made the Spartans III in the first place.

  • 03.26.2011 10:33 AM PDT