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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Astronut7
@grey101
Couldn't interface with Halo's controls...
Can interface with AI & monitors, but not controls...I'm not quite sure how that's possible...
We never saw what else the gravemind could or could not do...but I am sure that the no.1 thing that the Forerunners wouldn't want is a gravemind with an ability to break containment by teleporting on the Halo Ring.
There are no ships on Halo with the ability for interstellar transport. I am sure the first thing the forerunners did with Halo (after maneuvering them into position) is to remove it's slipspace drive.

Again, what happens if the entire installation is overun by Flood? Not having that info anywhere on the Halo Ring is the safest bet.


The forerunners have failsafes for that, have you read cryptum?

If The gravemind did have control of installation 4 (like you think) he wouldn't have been contained and for the last eon. I wwould like to think he would be making slipspace jumps looking for planets with life to which he could leave the installation. That is what someting with brains would do.

The flood was contained to the library, which i doubt had systems they could use even if they could access them

  • 03.26.2011 10:41 AM PDT


Posted by: Evil Johnny

Posted by: KROOKA
Posted by: privet caboose


Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



It says in Halopedia that they where pulled out of the company by Kurt- 051 and Mendez before Operation: PROMETHEUS


That's weird, on the contrary of Spartans II, they were made to be expendable and thus work in big groups. Why didn't Ackerson made a couple of real Spartans II if he wanted a small spec-ops group? That kind of works against the whole reason he made the Spartans III in the first place.


Ackerson wasn't told of those pulled out. Or he knew very little about them. It definitely wasn't his plan.

  • 03.26.2011 10:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Telec

Posted by: Primum Agmen
Hooray for poor houses!

Damn straight

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Evil Johnny

Posted by: KROOKA
Posted by: privet caboose


Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



It says in Halopedia that they where pulled out of the company by Kurt- 051 and Mendez before Operation: PROMETHEUS


That's weird, on the contrary of Spartans II, they were made to be expendable and thus work in big groups. Why didn't Ackerson made a couple of real Spartans II if he wanted a small spec-ops group? That kind of works against the whole reason he made the Spartans III in the first place.


Ackerson wasn't told of those pulled out. Or he knew very little about them. It definitely wasn't his plan.


It appears we have solved one problem, only to create another.
I think this was most likely to be planned behind Ackerson's back.

  • 03.26.2011 10:52 AM PDT

Does it say why Mendez and Kurt took them out?

  • 03.26.2011 10:56 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Evil Johnny
Does it say why Mendez and Kurt took them out?


IT was in a pre-reach update. They felt they were good enough to be "true" spartans and upgraded with the tech they needed.

  • 03.26.2011 10:58 AM PDT


Posted by: Evil Johnny
Does it say why Mendez and Kurt took them out?


Because they were among the best and ones "She would have chosen" Kurt wanted them outfitted as Spartans would be, and doing fitting missions instead of suicide ones.

  • 03.26.2011 10:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: Telec

Posted by: Primum Agmen
Hooray for poor houses!

Damn straight

Posted by: Evil Johnny
Does it say why Mendez and Kurt took them out?


No, but I would expect it to be because they wanted them to be the best they could be. Maybe they decided to do this by putting them in a fully functional squad. Like posted above me.

  • 03.26.2011 11:04 AM PDT
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@Evil Johnny
It seems to pretty much boil down to lack of sources indicating one way or another...whenever that happens, franchises can do whatever they want.
It doesn't say when she accessed the file...hours, days, weeks before the invasion...but seeing as she's Halsey she could probably break the decrytion in under half an hour. :)
When first seeing the Spartan-IIIs after waking up from crash-landing it says she noticed their armour first...for a couple of seconds, she thought they were ODSTs. A few seconds after that she recognized them as Spartans...though not her work.

What is Halsey going to ask Noble Team? What they are? Noble Team probably thought she was in the know...or had no clue what her relation to the Spartan project was.

Actually, she did ask..."Are you a puppet or a Spartan?" :)

The quote from Chapter Twenty, I think is just asking "why hadn't she heard of the Spartan-III deployments--it's because they didn't survive them, isn't it?"

  • 03.26.2011 11:09 AM PDT
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@grey101
Yes, I have read Cryptum. Forerunner-flood-human war, 12 Halo Rings, the Didact, the destruction of Precursor artifacts, epic destruction of Halo Rings, the message from the Prisoner, etc.

Which failsafes are you talking about? The ones that failed under Medicant Bias? I must have missed them...could you direct me to them please?

I don't think the gravemind had control over installation 04---I think it had limited control over installation 05. :)
The Forerunner trilogy isn't completed yet, but I'm sure one of the points that will be brought up is the removal of the Halo Rings' slipspace drive.
My original point still stands (I think) because the safest thing for the forerunners to do is to put as little information about the Ark on the Halo Rings as possible.
That's anywhere on the Halo Rings--database or monitor.

[Edited on 03.26.2011 11:24 AM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 11:19 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Astronut7
@grey101
My original point still stands (I think) because the safest thing for the forerunners to do is to put as little information about the Ark on the Halo Rings as possible.
That's anywhere on the Halo Rings--database or monitor.


The point i am trying to get across is that the forerunners also had to leave information behind for humanity. So the humans find a halo, able to use it and have no explaination why?

Sure installation 5 had an outbreak but that is only 1 case. what if we found that ring and the protocols were still intact (like the other rings) we would be given control of a galaxy killing gun but no reason why?


It's like giving somebody that hates you your house after your death but not explaining why incase your children find out. (or something along thoose lines)

  • 03.26.2011 11:28 AM PDT
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@grey101
We only see two rings, on one of which, the Flood had broken out, and on the other, it was accidentally let out. Do we have any information about the state of affairs on other rings?

If I remember correctly, the Halo Rings did hold an explanation why they were made...it was just that Cortana only found that out a little too late, and that information wouldn't have been of much use to the gravemind--(it already knew it all too well)--which is probably why the Forerunners left it in there.

We still don't know everything about the Ark...maybe there was a way to shut the Halo installations down completely (very useful to the gravemind), or maybe the Ark could generate direct slipspace portals to anywhere in the galaxy (very useful to the gravemind). That information would probably be best served if it was placed on the Ark (nowhere else).

All that we did know, is that the Ark was somewhere, that the Ark could (now) activate all Halo rings due to the abortive firing of Halo 05, and that the gateway to the Ark was on Earth. Had we been given the opportunity to peruse the database on Earth, we probably would have been given a beacon to the keyship...or something along those lines.

Btw, we know that the Flood isn't just confined to the Halo Rings. Do we know if once the gravemind knows something, all the flood know something (this gravemind seems to know all about the Forerunner-Flood war)...possibly across the entire galaxy? What could the Flood across the galaxy do if it had knowledge about vital information pertaining to the Ark?

[Edited on 03.26.2011 11:53 AM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 11:51 AM PDT
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@Evil Johnny
No, it doesn't say why Kurt and Mendez took them out, but I get the impression from it that they wanted as many of the Spartan-IIIs to survive as possible.
Apparently they were having an increasingly hard time justifying the redeployments to Ackerson.
Also, as said by posts above, they could only pick a few, so they took the ones that were the best, and hence would be more useful on non-suicidal operations.

Note: Actually, I'll just give you the link...
http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=personn el&cid=24040

[Edited on 03.26.2011 12:26 PM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 12:09 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: fxnavarro
I appreciate your attempt, but this has been stated quite a few times already in the 67 pages of this thread. The problem with Reach is that some things simply don't make sense anymore if you try to merge the different canon sources, not just that they contradict each other.

[Edited on 03.26.2011 1:23 PM PDT]

  • 03.26.2011 1:23 PM PDT

Posted by: grey101
(Going off memory) i was under the impresssion that the rock was decoded before reach.


Well, I don't own TFoR, so I can't go back to check it, but I read it not that long ago, I'm pretty sure it said that Cortana decoded it just before the Autumn made the jump to Alpha Halo.

  • 03.26.2011 6:40 PM PDT


Posted by: Evil Johnny

Posted by: KROOKA
Posted by: privet caboose


Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



It says in Halopedia that they where pulled out of the company by Kurt- 051 and Mendez before Operation: PROMETHEUS


That's weird, on the contrary of Spartans II, they were made to be expendable and thus work in big groups. Why didn't Ackerson made a couple of real Spartans II if he wanted a small spec-ops group? That kind of works against the whole reason he made the Spartans III in the first place.


Kurt and Mendez pulled the best of the best from the Spartan IIIs because they thought it would be far more effective to outfit them as the Spartan IIs would be and to send them on missions that weren't suicide missions, rather than just wasting them like the rest of the IIIs.

  • 03.26.2011 6:46 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I refuse to believe "Noble was the best of the III's" considering how utterly crap they are when compared to Tom, Lucy, Roland, Jonah, Robert, Shane, Ash...hell, ANY other spartan III we've read about completely trumps Noble Team. It's pathetic.

And how exactly did they get pulled for, "Coming back suicide mission after suicide mission." Both Alpha and Beta went on various missions before PROMETHEUS or TORPEDO, yet every single Spartan III was alive when those missions were taken on. OF COURSE they came back from those missions. Any other III could've been pulled if that was the only criteria.

  • 03.26.2011 8:30 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: privet caboose
I refuse to believe "Noble was the best of the III's" considering how utterly crap they are when compared to Tom, Lucy, Roland, Jonah, Robert, Shane, Ash...hell, ANY other spartan III we've read about completely trumps Noble Team. It's pathetic.

Did any of them match the criteria of abilities matching those of a Spartan-II? Doesn't look like it. Tom was a pretty good leader, Lucy was a mute, Roland and Jonah bite the dust, Shane died, and Ash may very well have had the chances to be part of a Noble like group had things not gone to Hell when Onyx was attacked.

  • 03.26.2011 9:42 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: privet caboose
I refuse to believe "Noble was the best of the III's" considering how utterly crap they are when compared to Tom, Lucy, Roland, Jonah, Robert, Shane, Ash...hell, ANY other spartan III we've read about completely trumps Noble Team. It's pathetic.

Did any of them match the criteria of abilities matching those of a Spartan-II? Doesn't look like it. Tom was a pretty good leader, Lucy was a mute, Roland and Jonah bite the dust, Shane died, and Ash may very well have had the chances to be part of a Noble like group had things not gone to Hell when Onyx was attacked.


I fail to see how Noble team is "utterly crap" compared to those...

  • 03.26.2011 11:23 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: privet caboose
I refuse to believe "Noble was the best of the III's" considering how utterly crap they are when compared to Tom, Lucy, Roland, Jonah, Robert, Shane, Ash...hell, ANY other spartan III we've read about completely trumps Noble Team. It's pathetic.

Did any of them match the criteria of abilities matching those of a Spartan-II? Doesn't look like it. Tom was a pretty good leader, Lucy was a mute, Roland and Jonah bite the dust, Shane died, and Ash may very well have had the chances to be part of a Noble like group had things not gone to Hell when Onyx was attacked.


I fail to see how Noble team is "utterly crap" compared to those...

Logic does not work on a fanboy.

  • 03.26.2011 11:42 PM PDT


Posted by: KROOKA
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Evil Johnny

Posted by: KROOKA
Posted by: privet caboose


Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



It says in Halopedia that they where pulled out of the company by Kurt- 051 and Mendez before Operation: PROMETHEUS


That's weird, on the contrary of Spartans II, they were made to be expendable and thus work in big groups. Why didn't Ackerson made a couple of real Spartans II if he wanted a small spec-ops group? That kind of works against the whole reason he made the Spartans III in the first place.


Ackerson wasn't told of those pulled out. Or he knew very little about them. It definitely wasn't his plan.


It appears we have solved one problem, only to create another.
I think this was most likely to be planned behind Ackerson's back.


So... Ackerson couldn't count to 300?

  • 03.27.2011 1:07 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: privet caboose
I refuse to believe "Noble was the best of the III's" considering how utterly crap they are when compared to Tom, Lucy, Roland, Jonah, Robert, Shane, Ash...hell, ANY other spartan III we've read about completely trumps Noble Team. It's pathetic.

Did any of them match the criteria of abilities matching those of a Spartan-II? Doesn't look like it. Tom was a pretty good leader, Lucy was a mute, Roland and Jonah bite the dust, Shane died, and Ash may very well have had the chances to be part of a Noble like group had things not gone to Hell when Onyx was attacked.


I fail to see how Noble team is "utterly crap" compared to those...

Logic does not work on a fanboy.


I actually quite liked Noble Team. I think it has more to do with the fact that they are the first Spartans we get to see interact in game than it does with their actual personalities or abilities. But that's just me.

  • 03.27.2011 1:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: Telec

Posted by: Primum Agmen
Hooray for poor houses!

Damn straight

Posted by: privet caboose
I refuse to believe "Noble was the best of the III's" considering how utterly crap they are when compared to Tom, Lucy, Roland, Jonah, Robert, Shane, Ash...hell, ANY other spartan III we've read about completely trumps Noble Team. It's pathetic.

And how exactly did they get pulled for, "Coming back suicide mission after suicide mission." Both Alpha and Beta went on various missions before PROMETHEUS or TORPEDO, yet every single Spartan III was alive when those missions were taken on. OF COURSE they came back from those missions. Any other III could've been pulled if that was the only criteria.



Only saying what it states in the Halopedia. Also I have to agree with you on this.

  • 03.27.2011 4:02 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: privet caboose
I refuse to believe "Noble was the best of the III's" considering how utterly crap they are when compared to Tom, Lucy, Roland, Jonah, Robert, Shane, Ash...hell, ANY other spartan III we've read about completely trumps Noble Team. It's pathetic.

Did any of them match the criteria of abilities matching those of a Spartan-II? Doesn't look like it. Tom was a pretty good leader, Lucy was a mute, Roland and Jonah bite the dust, Shane died, and Ash may very well have had the chances to be part of a Noble like group had things not gone to Hell when Onyx was attacked.


I fail to see how Noble team is "utterly crap" compared to those...

Logic does not work on a fanboy.


Tom and Lucy survived TORPEDO, and then went on to survive Onyx. They went on a mission to blow up various Sentinel spawning buildings. Blue Team went to destroy one, Saber Team went to destroy one, and Tom and Lucy were sent to the last one.

Despite being in SPI, and despite being just a two man team, they still completed the mission without losing anyone.

Noble Team, despite having MJOLNIR, was unable to survive Reach even though they weren't part of the main offensive. Jorge died like a true spartan. As did Noble Six. But the others? They all made completely rookie mistakes that any other spartan would've never made.

Why weren't Kat's shields up? EMP'd you say? No, the Phantom was still flying. Her shields hadn't come back yet? Impossible, they would've recharged in the elevator. The only logical explanation, is that she didn't put her helmet back on fully, or didn't place it properly, or she just didn't have "auto recharging shielding" turned on. This is because, for some damn reason, Noble team loves taking their helmets off. A Spartan II would PUKE in his own helmet before taking it off. New Alexandria was a battlefield. There's no reason they should've been helmet-less in that scene.

Emile's death is chalked down to being too cocky by taking his time to kill the first Elite, and just not watching his motion tracker when the Elite came up behind him.

Jun apparently went into hiding, because he didn't stay with Halsey at Castle, and he's never mentioned again. Maybe he's tunneled up somewhere under Reach and just doesn't want to be found.



Anyway, I'm ranting and completely off topic.

  • 03.27.2011 4:44 AM PDT