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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

Signatures are for squares.

I always make that face in real life when I'm posting on these forums, so it's appropriate.

  • 03.28.2011 3:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Astronut7
@Cmdr DaeFaron
How so? I know that Six has pretty much had most of his prior missions redacted...his/her Sabre experience was thrown out there with no prior warning just when we needed it...can fight the Covenant extremely well depending on the skill of the player...and after 98 percent of the game was done, we learnt that he/she found duty more important than survival.
I guess what I'm really looking for is some hint of personality that I can identify with. Listen and look at the Chief in Halo:CE cutscenes again, how he interacts with the other characters...especially Cortana. In my opinion, there's a lot more there.

I guess I really am exaggerating with the Rookie comparison...but even in that case, we got something out of how the other characters reacted to him. Six is just...we don't get much.


Six doesn't really have any back story or anything because Six is supposed to be you. Basically Six doesn't have a backstory other than what's made up by you and the limited amount of information that Bungie made up themselves.
The Bio for six claims he's made entire militia groups vanish which would suggest he's been performing black ops prior to inducting into Noble Team.


Yes, but he/she doesn't really have any story 'cause you're supposed to be Six, so really you can make up whatever story you want to for him/her. That's also why they added armor customization to the campaign. Bungie put out a very limited amount of information regarding Six, and even what little they put out doesn't tell you much about what makes Six tick.

This decision to have six as "you the player" effectively killed the majority of the potential to have an actual in-depth story surrounding Noble six and to some extent the rest of the story in general.

  • 03.28.2011 4:11 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I always hated the "You're supposed to be the character" type of heros Bungie tries to create. It doesn't work. The rookie completely proved that. He simply DIDN'T respond when Dare asked what his name was. He never said a single word, even when she ordered anyone who heard the message to respond.

If "I'm supposed to be the character" then why don't I talk? I'm not a silent character, am I? It worked with the chief not talking during gameplay, but he still had a decent amount of lines.

Noble Six says what, maybe 10 words the entire campaign? He might as well of been the rookie.

  • 03.28.2011 4:22 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
I always hated the "You're supposed to be the character" type of heros Bungie tries to create. It doesn't work. The rookie completely proved that. He simply DIDN'T respond when Dare asked what his name was. He never said a single word, even when she ordered anyone who heard the message to respond.

If "I'm supposed to be the character" then why don't I talk? I'm not a silent character, am I? It worked with the chief not talking during gameplay, but he still had a decent amount of lines.

Noble Six says what, maybe 10 words the entire campaign? He might as well of been the rookie.


The rookie was mute... Hard to respond to Dare asking what his name was if he can't talk.

  • 03.28.2011 4:54 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
I always hated the "You're supposed to be the character" type of heros Bungie tries to create. It doesn't work. The rookie completely proved that. He simply DIDN'T respond when Dare asked what his name was. He never said a single word, even when she ordered anyone who heard the message to respond.

If "I'm supposed to be the character" then why don't I talk? I'm not a silent character, am I? It worked with the chief not talking during gameplay, but he still had a decent amount of lines.

Noble Six says what, maybe 10 words the entire campaign? He might as well of been the rookie.


The rookie was mute... Hard to respond to Dare asking what his name was if he can't talk.


No, he wasn't mute. Dirt proves this. There is not a single piece of canon information that states the Rookie was a mute.

  • 03.28.2011 5:15 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
I always hated the "You're supposed to be the character" type of heros Bungie tries to create. It doesn't work. The rookie completely proved that. He simply DIDN'T respond when Dare asked what his name was. He never said a single word, even when she ordered anyone who heard the message to respond.

If "I'm supposed to be the character" then why don't I talk? I'm not a silent character, am I? It worked with the chief not talking during gameplay, but he still had a decent amount of lines.

Noble Six says what, maybe 10 words the entire campaign? He might as well of been the rookie.


The rookie was mute... Hard to respond to Dare asking what his name was if he can't talk.


No, he wasn't mute. Dirt proves this. There is not a single piece of canon information that states the Rookie was a mute.


A: He is stated to be the lone survivor of his entire unit at that battle.
B: That tends to be a heavy source of PST.
C: Thus, common sense + logic at how he acts in cutscenes, and that information points toward him have the PST variant of going mute, just like Lucy.

  • 03.28.2011 5:31 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
I always hated the "You're supposed to be the character" type of heros Bungie tries to create. It doesn't work. The rookie completely proved that. He simply DIDN'T respond when Dare asked what his name was. He never said a single word, even when she ordered anyone who heard the message to respond.

If "I'm supposed to be the character" then why don't I talk? I'm not a silent character, am I? It worked with the chief not talking during gameplay, but he still had a decent amount of lines.

Noble Six says what, maybe 10 words the entire campaign? He might as well of been the rookie.


The rookie was mute... Hard to respond to Dare asking what his name was if he can't talk.


No, he wasn't mute. Dirt proves this. There is not a single piece of canon information that states the Rookie was a mute.


A: He is stated to be the lone survivor of his entire unit at that battle.
B: That tends to be a heavy source of PST.
C: Thus, common sense + logic at how he acts in cutscenes, and that information points toward him have the PST variant of going mute, just like Lucy.


Likely, but hardly a confirmation of it being true.

  • 03.28.2011 5:37 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Posted by: privet caboose
I always hated the "You're supposed to be the character" type of heros Bungie tries to create. It doesn't work. The rookie completely proved that. He simply DIDN'T respond when Dare asked what his name was. He never said a single word, even when she ordered anyone who heard the message to respond.

If "I'm supposed to be the character" then why don't I talk? I'm not a silent character, am I? It worked with the chief not talking during gameplay, but he still had a decent amount of lines.

Noble Six says what, maybe 10 words the entire campaign? He might as well of been the rookie.


True, I'd have preferred all of the characters to have more... personality. Reach's story plays out more like a TV Soap, i.e Bold and the Beautiful, Days of our lives, etc. The lack of varying accents and character models really grinds when you play through the game too...

Regardless, the game is still fun, and that's how it's supposed to be; Fun. The story isn't aimed at the small community of dedicated Halo gamers, it's aimed at the much broader, casual market. I think if a spokesperson for Bungie were to post, the gist of their discussion regarding the cannon would be about what is known as 'Artistic License'. At the end of the day, the original books represent the Halo I know and love. Reach, specifically, changes quite a lot of established cannon, but that's just how it is. Bungie haven't released any statements regarding this issue, so we are just going to have live with it guys.

Now, to summarise the character issues, specifically Caboose's dislike of the player character formula used by Bungie: As hollow as their protagonists may be at times, the formula is quite intelligent and tends to work, however Reach failed to blend that formula in with the story aspects of the game, and furthermore, the lack of interesting, charismatic characters, a dramatic, emotional and compelling story, and varying depth of involvement [Easter eggs, Difficulty based dialog, etc] Reach fails to engage the individual, or at least the individual who plays for the story experience.

Personally, the story of Reach feels tacked on and aimed at younger gamers/casual gamers. It lacks maturity, in spite of some of it's deeper themes. Still, the game is fun, and I've no technical issues with it at all. I still appreciate the time and effort that was dedicated to this title and the hard work does shine through in the nitty gritty.

  • 03.28.2011 6:29 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
I always hated the "You're supposed to be the character" type of heros Bungie tries to create. It doesn't work. The rookie completely proved that. He simply DIDN'T respond when Dare asked what his name was. He never said a single word, even when she ordered anyone who heard the message to respond.

If "I'm supposed to be the character" then why don't I talk? I'm not a silent character, am I? It worked with the chief not talking during gameplay, but he still had a decent amount of lines.

Noble Six says what, maybe 10 words the entire campaign? He might as well of been the rookie.


The rookie was mute... Hard to respond to Dare asking what his name was if he can't talk.


No, he wasn't mute. Dirt proves this. There is not a single piece of canon information that states the Rookie was a mute.


A: He is stated to be the lone survivor of his entire unit at that battle.
B: That tends to be a heavy source of PST.
C: Thus, common sense + logic at how he acts in cutscenes, and that information points toward him have the PST variant of going mute, just like Lucy.


By that logic anyone who loses their entire squad in battle should be mute? Look at Ghost from Prototype, he lost his entire squad again and again, yet he was still talkative.

How about the Chief? He lost ALL of his brothers and sisters on Reach(so he thought in Halo CE) yet that didn't stop him from talking?

There's an occurrence of it, yes. But that doesn't mean it's going to be that way every time, just because he's soft-spoken. Dutch even says he's the strong silent type, and in Dirt he doesn't talk that often anyway.

Also, Lucy's situation was ENTIRELY different. She spent her ENTIRE life growing up with those spartans. She learned everything with them, lived with them, and those were literally her family members. She was young, and even as a spartan it had an effect on her because of those circumstances.

  • 03.28.2011 6:36 PM PDT

The way Rookie acted and gestured directly lead me to him being mute, by choice or forced. It's not a guarantee, but it's one of the major causes. Every person reacts differently, everything I see points at him simply going mute like Lucy had.

  • 03.28.2011 6:38 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: privet caboose
I always make that face in real life when I'm posting on these forums, so it's appropriate.
Your "FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!" face?


Yeah, I get aggravated easily.

Also, on the subject of the Rookie, how many mutes whistle?

  • 03.28.2011 7:08 PM PDT


Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: privet caboose
I always make that face in real life when I'm posting on these forums, so it's appropriate.
Your "FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!" face?


Yeah, I get aggravated easily.

Also, on the subject of the Rookie, how many mutes whistle?
Apparently him. Also, there's really no history of the Rookie either except from the unit he displaced from.


If he is mute due to PST, I don't see how that'd affect being able to whistle or hum.

  • 03.28.2011 7:18 PM PDT

I don't like cocaine, I just like the way it smells.

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Astronut7
@Cmdr DaeFaron
How so? I know that Six has pretty much had most of his prior missions redacted...his/her Sabre experience was thrown out there with no prior warning just when we needed it...can fight the Covenant extremely well depending on the skill of the player...and after 98 percent of the game was done, we learnt that he/she found duty more important than survival.
I guess what I'm really looking for is some hint of personality that I can identify with. Listen and look at the Chief in Halo:CE cutscenes again, how he interacts with the other characters...especially Cortana. In my opinion, there's a lot more there.

I guess I really am exaggerating with the Rookie comparison...but even in that case, we got something out of how the other characters reacted to him. Six is just...we don't get much.


Six doesn't really have any back story or anything because Six is supposed to be you. Basically Six doesn't have a backstory other than what's made up by you and the limited amount of information that Bungie made up themselves.
The Bio for six claims he's made entire militia groups vanish which would suggest he's been performing black ops prior to inducting into Noble Team.


Yes, but he/she doesn't really have any story 'cause you're supposed to be Six, so really you can make up whatever story you want to for him/her. That's also why they added armor customization to the campaign. Bungie put out a very limited amount of information regarding Six, and even what little they put out doesn't tell you much about what makes Six tick.

This decision to have six as "you the player" effectively killed the majority of the potential to have an actual in-depth story surrounding Noble six and to some extent the rest of the story in general.


Similar to how Commander Shepard has almost no background info in Mass Effect.

  • 03.28.2011 7:37 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
I always hated the "You're supposed to be the character" type of heros Bungie tries to create. It doesn't work. The rookie completely proved that. He simply DIDN'T respond when Dare asked what his name was. He never said a single word, even when she ordered anyone who heard the message to respond.

If "I'm supposed to be the character" then why don't I talk? I'm not a silent character, am I? It worked with the chief not talking during gameplay, but he still had a decent amount of lines.

Noble Six says what, maybe 10 words the entire campaign? He might as well of been the rookie.


The rookie was mute... Hard to respond to Dare asking what his name was if he can't talk.


No, he wasn't mute. Dirt proves this. There is not a single piece of canon information that states the Rookie was a mute.


A: He is stated to be the lone survivor of his entire unit at that battle.
B: That tends to be a heavy source of PST.
C: Thus, common sense + logic at how he acts in cutscenes, and that information points toward him have the PST variant of going mute, just like Lucy.


By that logic anyone who loses their entire squad in battle should be mute? Look at Ghost from Prototype, he lost his entire squad again and again, yet he was still talkative.

How about the Chief? He lost ALL of his brothers and sisters on Reach(so he thought in Halo CE) yet that didn't stop him from talking?

There's an occurrence of it, yes. But that doesn't mean it's going to be that way every time, just because he's soft-spoken. Dutch even says he's the strong silent type, and in Dirt he doesn't talk that often anyway.

Also, Lucy's situation was ENTIRELY different. She spent her ENTIRE life growing up with those spartans. She learned everything with them, lived with them, and those were literally her family members. She was young, and even as a spartan it had an effect on her because of those circumstances.


I don't think the Rookie is a mute either, there's not much evidence for it, imo. And regarding Lucy, yeah, she lost pretty much everyone she had grown up with, so basically she lost her family to the Covenant twice, and not to mention she was like what, maybe twelve (?), at least, when Beta went on their suicide mission, a twelve-year-old can't take as much as an adult can n regards to emotional trauma like war. The Rookie has probably seen many friends and squad mates die over the course of the war, I don't think having his quad wiped out in whatever battle it was that it happened would necessarily cause him to be a mute.

  • 03.28.2011 8:41 PM PDT

He didn't just lose his squad, he lost either his entire unit, or nearly his entire unit.

His behavior in cutscenes, to me, implies he doesn't talk, whether it's by choice or by a wound/PST.

  • 03.28.2011 8:53 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Vegerot

Similar to how Commander Shepard has almost no background info in Mass Effect.


Not really...Shepard has no "official" background, but he definitely has them. In any case the two cases are extremely different, Mass Effect is an action RPG that focuses on the story of Shepard according to the choices the player makes.

Halo games have always had a linear, non-differentiating storyline since it is a FPS, and its design has never really allowed for the feel of "the player as the protagonist" feel. Reach is a perfect example of an awkward attempt to try and create another one of those protagonists.

  • 03.28.2011 9:17 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
He didn't just lose his squad, he lost either his entire unit, or nearly his entire unit.

His behavior in cutscenes, to me, implies he doesn't talk, whether it's by choice or by a wound/PST.


But what moments in the game does he get a chance to really talk? The one time he is questioned for an answer that does not warrant a yes or no nod (when he meets up with Dare) he gets cut off by the sounds of approaching Covenant.

Other than that, any character interaction with him is either a pat on the back, or a character just randomly explaining a situation.

The one oddity that makes the mute theory unlikey is that Buck and Dare try to solicit a response from him in the first place. Given both their status' as being the Rookie's superior one would imagine that at the very least Buck would be aware that his new squad mate is mute. Otherwise, it would be absolutely pointless for him to try and hail the Rookie on the radio in the NMPD cutscene.

  • 03.28.2011 9:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: privet caboose
Since when did we ever consider ViDocs canon? They're the absolute lowest form; marketing.

I had no idea we weren't supposed to consider them canon. I thought they were as long as the information they provide is in-universe...
Does this also apply to articles such as Ten-Twenty and the information about Noble Team/Cole Protocol posted by Bungie on this website?

  • 03.29.2011 9:38 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Astronut7
Posted by: privet caboose
Since when did we ever consider ViDocs canon? They're the absolute lowest form; marketing.

I had no idea we weren't supposed to consider them canon. I thought they were as long as the information they provide is in-universe...
Does this also apply to articles such as Ten-Twenty and the information about Noble Team/Cole Protocol posted by Bungie on this website?


No, information posted in the weekly updates, such as the conversation 2401 had about the flood outbreak, are canon. The message between Kurt and Mendez, is canon.

Vidocs are marketing, and have always been considered one of the absolute lowest forms of canon. If anything states something that contradicts information in the vidoc, then the original source is canon. If an old book says something in a new vidoc is wrong, the book still takes precedence.

  • 03.29.2011 9:47 AM PDT
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@privet caboose
Okay, thanks for the clarification.

@StealthSlasher2
I always thought that the Rookie was just uncomfortable talking with the rest of the squad, seeing as he is the newest member of the team. Looking back at the (very) limited interactions he had, like you said, it's difficult to see how he could be mute...

@Vegerot
Never played mass effect, but from what I understand of the game, both that character and the rest had tons of personality. To me, the Chief had enough to identify with, and provided a welcome relief to Cortana. The Rookie had none, but the rest of the squad had plenty, so you could really feel as if you, the player, was interacting with them. My gripe with six was that he/she had barely anything, on top of the rest of Noble Team having barely any personality.

[Edited on 03.29.2011 10:04 AM PDT]

  • 03.29.2011 9:53 AM PDT

Road To Recon Unlocked on : 28th of march 2010

Buy the re-writen versions.

  • 03.29.2011 10:54 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Astronut7
Posted by: privet caboose
Since when did we ever consider ViDocs canon? They're the absolute lowest form; marketing.

I had no idea we weren't supposed to consider them canon. I thought they were as long as the information they provide is in-universe...
Does this also apply to articles such as Ten-Twenty and the information about Noble Team/Cole Protocol posted by Bungie on this website?


No, information posted in the weekly updates, such as the conversation 2401 had about the flood outbreak, are canon. The message between Kurt and Mendez, is canon.

Vidocs are marketing, and have always been considered one of the absolute lowest forms of canon. If anything states something that contradicts information in the vidoc, then the original source is canon. If an old book says something in a new vidoc is wrong, the book still takes precedence.


Doesn't new information overwrite old though, whether it's marketing or not? That's how I always interpreted what I heard about "new overwriting old" at least, is that any new information took precedence unless the source was something non-canon of course like Odd One Out.

  • 03.29.2011 11:09 AM PDT