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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

I don't like cocaine, I just like the way it smells.

This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!

  • 04.06.2011 1:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: Vegerot
This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!
You mean how is it that you need an armor ability to sprint? I don't think any of the armor abilities are canon, they're just gameplay elements.

  • 04.06.2011 1:48 PM PDT


Posted by: Vegerot
This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!


Mjolner armor has some sort of speed limiter that won't let a Spartan run at their fastest as with the armor it would injure them, just look at what Chief did to himself in Mark V test, and the Sprint AA allows them to temporarily overload the limiter and basically turn it off. That's how it works to my understanding at least, and keep in mind that gameplay limits how the AA would really work and what a Spartan can really do outside, so don't act like Spartans need an Armor Ability to be able to run.

  • 04.06.2011 1:50 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Vegerot
This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!


Mjolner armor has some sort of speed limiter that won't let a Spartan run at their fastest as with the armor it would injure them, just look at what Chief did to himself in Mark V test, and the Sprint AA allows them to temporarily overload the limiter and basically turn it off. That's how it works to my understanding at least, and keep in mind that gameplay limits how the AA would really work and what a Spartan can really do outside, so don't act like Spartans need an Armor Ability to be able to run.


This ^, the ability was apparently made by Kat also.

  • 04.06.2011 1:53 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Vegerot
This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!


Mjolner armor has some sort of speed limiter that won't let a Spartan run at their fastest as with the armor it would injure them, just look at what Chief did to himself in Mark V test, and the Sprint AA allows them to temporarily overload the limiter and basically turn it off. That's how it works to my understanding at least, and keep in mind that gameplay limits how the AA would really work and what a Spartan can really do outside, so don't act like Spartans need an Armor Ability to be able to run.


This ^, the ability was apparently made by Kat also.


I don't think I heard that last part before, haha, that's cool.

  • 04.06.2011 2:35 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Vegerot
This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!


Mjolner armor has some sort of speed limiter that won't let a Spartan run at their fastest as with the armor it would injure them, just look at what Chief did to himself in Mark V test, and the Sprint AA allows them to temporarily overload the limiter and basically turn it off. That's how it works to my understanding at least, and keep in mind that gameplay limits how the AA would really work and what a Spartan can really do outside, so don't act like Spartans need an Armor Ability to be able to run.


This ^, the ability was apparently made by Kat also.


I don't think I heard that last part before, haha, that's cool.


Yup, it was.

According to the Halo: Reach manual, Kat B-320 was largely responsible for this Armor Ability.

  • 04.06.2011 2:42 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I don't regard the abilities as canon at all. Spartans wouldn't need an ability to Roll. They wouldn't get infinite bubble shields by having that attachment on their back. And they surely don't need to have some special machine to help them run faster. Kelly ran 38 miles per hour without the help of some armor ability.

They're a gameplay mechanic. That's it.

  • 04.06.2011 4:57 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: privet caboose
I don't regard the abilities as canon at all. Spartans wouldn't need an ability to Roll. They wouldn't get infinite bubble shields by having that attachment on their back. And they surely don't need to have some special machine to help them run faster. Kelly ran 38 miles per hour without the help of some armor ability.

They're a gameplay mechanic. That's it.

Agreed

  • 04.06.2011 5:05 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
I don't regard the abilities as canon at all. Spartans wouldn't need an ability to Roll. They wouldn't get infinite bubble shields by having that attachment on their back. And they surely don't need to have some special machine to help them run faster. Kelly ran 38 miles per hour without the help of some armor ability.

They're a gameplay mechanic. That's it.


Certain abilities like evade wouldn't be canon. Sprint? If you read it disabled the safeties which prevented the Spartans from running at max speed and disabling themselves.

Sprint and evade would be the only two which could be labeled as "gameplay only."

  • 04.06.2011 5:13 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
I don't regard the abilities as canon at all. Spartans wouldn't need an ability to Roll. They wouldn't get infinite bubble shields by having that attachment on their back. And they surely don't need to have some special machine to help them run faster. Kelly ran 38 miles per hour without the help of some armor ability.

They're a gameplay mechanic. That's it.


Certain abilities like evade wouldn't be canon. Sprint? If you read it disabled the safeties which prevented the Spartans from running at max speed and disabling themselves.

Sprint and evade would be the only two which could be labeled as "gameplay only."


I don't think any of the Armor Abilities can safely be considered non-canon or simply a gameplay element. Evade is the only one that comes close to being the latter, but even then it is somewhat explained what it does.

Here's what the game manual says about it:
This appears to be a dummy module or terminator plug. While it is critical for operating the Elites' armor, its precise function is unknown.
Spartans are encouraged to acquire it in the if possible.


Sounds like there's at least some canon information on it at least, and that's enough for me.

  • 04.06.2011 5:31 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Oh please. There's not a single mention of anything of the sort in any other canon. Hell, there's not even mention of Halo 3's Equipment in any canon(other than the rather questionable Encyclopedia.)

It's safe to say it's for gameplay purposes. Like I said before, the game manuals are the lowest form of Canon, marketing. The Halo trilogy manuals tell us the chief is the last Spartan. But we all know that's not true.

  • 04.06.2011 7:35 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Oh please. There's not a single mention of anything of the sort in any other canon. Hell, there's not even mention of Halo 3's Equipment in any canon(other than the rather questionable Encyclopedia.)

It's safe to say it's for gameplay purposes. Like I said before, the game manuals are the lowest form of Canon, marketing. The Halo trilogy manuals tell us the chief is the last Spartan. But we all know that's not true.


And unless/until a higher source of canon says otherwise anything used for marketing material is completely canon.

I can fully understand people not liking Halo: Reach or whatever, but the extents people are going to in their dislike of the game...good grief, it's starting to border on total insanity. I mean you no disrespect Caboose, but what you're claiming or trying to argue has absolutely no basis and you're just grabbing at straws.

  • 04.06.2011 7:41 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
Oh please. There's not a single mention of anything of the sort in any other canon. Hell, there's not even mention of Halo 3's Equipment in any canon(other than the rather questionable Encyclopedia.)

It's safe to say it's for gameplay purposes. Like I said before, the game manuals are the lowest form of Canon, marketing. The Halo trilogy manuals tell us the chief is the last Spartan. But we all know that's not true.


And unless/until a higher source of canon says otherwise anything used for marketing material is completely canon.

I can fully understand people not liking Halo: Reach or whatever, but the extents people are going to in their dislike of the game...good grief, it's starting to border on total insanity. I mean you no disrespect Caboose, but what you're claiming or trying to argue has absolutely no basis and you're just grabbing at straws.


Yeah... right now it's sounding like this.

"This item, which was just added to the canon, hasn't appeared ANYWHERE ELSE. Therefore, it cannot be canon!"

  • 04.06.2011 8:01 PM PDT

I know Guest110100 is lame. I get it. I know that I can change it. I won't. Anyway, check out my group, New Zombie and please join the new Rogue Team Alpha!


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
Oh please. There's not a single mention of anything of the sort in any other canon. Hell, there's not even mention of Halo 3's Equipment in any canon(other than the rather questionable Encyclopedia.)

It's safe to say it's for gameplay purposes. Like I said before, the game manuals are the lowest form of Canon, marketing. The Halo trilogy manuals tell us the chief is the last Spartan. But we all know that's not true.


And unless/until a higher source of canon says otherwise anything used for marketing material is completely canon.

I can fully understand people not liking Halo: Reach or whatever, but the extents people are going to in their dislike of the game...good grief, it's starting to border on total insanity. I mean you no disrespect Caboose, but what you're claiming or trying to argue has absolutely no basis and you're just grabbing at straws.


Yeah... right now it's sounding like this.

"This item, which was just added to the canon, hasn't appeared ANYWHERE ELSE. Therefore, it cannot be canon!"


Except that this has appeared throughout all of the books and plot lines; shields themselves were still a new technology on Reach. The AA's are more for a fun gameplay twist; which they accomplish quite well for the most part.

And not saying that it isn't canon simply because this is the first place it appeared, but simply because it doesn't fit anywhere in the current canon.

Picture a puzzle with one piece left: now take your cat and try to make it fit into the place. That's what it feels like sometimes with the edginess of the plot...

  • 04.06.2011 8:48 PM PDT

IRISHWhartHog58

To put it simply, all the books and games flow together fluently and amazingly BESIDES the game Halo Reach. To put it simply, Bungie effed up. Everything everyone is complaining about, they needed it all to make a game. Their focus was making a game, not focusing on the canon. Halo Reach messes up the canon in so many ways, creating so many endless loopholes and ripple effects that basically everything should be considered canon, except for Halo Reach. It just fails. No explanation, no defending it, nothing. It simply just fails. So play it for fun, enjoy what they gave us for gameplay and multiplayer and how great the game looks, but completely disregard it from canon. Everything else flows, so just play if for fun and not for canon. Its just too bad to try to fit in for canon. There's too much problems to try to fix.

  • 04.06.2011 10:29 PM PDT


Posted by: Trey Wharton
To put it simply, all the books and games flow together fluently and amazingly BESIDES the game Halo Reach. To put it simply, Bungie effed up. Everything everyone is complaining about, they needed it all to make a game. Their focus was making a game, not focusing on the canon. Halo Reach messes up the canon in so many ways, creating so many endless loopholes and ripple effects that basically everything should be considered canon, except for Halo Reach. It just fails. No explanation, no defending it, nothing. It simply just fails. So play it for fun, enjoy what they gave us for gameplay and multiplayer and how great the game looks, but completely disregard it from canon. Everything else flows, so just play if for fun and not for canon. Its just too bad to try to fit in for canon. There's too much problems to try to fix.


You fail to include Halsey's journal, which connects the book and the game.

Halo Reach does not flow into the rest of canon if you nit pick EVERY tiny detail, nor take the time to THINK about it. As we cannot read the halo story bible, we do not have the complete picture of the halo universe. Bungie, the original masters of canon made the comment that it fits in. Exactly how, we don't know. But this conspiracy of Bungie -blam!- up canon just to produce a game or make 343 have a harder time is -blam!- stupid.

  • 04.06.2011 10:33 PM PDT

IRISHWhartHog58

I respect what your saying, but let me tell ya something. I own all of the halo books: Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike, the re-released versions of them as well, Contact Harvest, Ghosts of Onyx, The Cole Protocol, Halo Evolutions, Cryptum, and even Halsey's Journal AND the Halo Encyclopedia. I even have all the graphic novels: Halo Graphic Novel, Uprising, Helljumper, and Bloodline. I have read all of these. ALL of them. I am an avid fan of the canon. I own all the games and have played them all. So I can truely tell you that ALL that canon fits PERFECTLY together, except Halo Reach and Halsey's Journal. Reach effed up because they made it how they wanted. They decided to twist the canon for their benefit to make a game work. And the journal was the decision to try and help fix some inconsistencies, but not all of them. Why? Because they effed up TOO much that it can't all be fixed. So ya you say nitpicking, but really its a storyline, and Halo Reach effs up the story. Plain and simple. It just doesn't work for true canon, because Bungie made the conscious decision to say eff it to the canon to be able to make their game work, BECAUSE game play is a hell of a lot different than book fiction, and they couldn't handle making the two become one. Reach is an amazing game, I love playing it, BUT it is terrible to the CANON of Halo. As a fan who owns all the fiction and games, I can tell you that.

  • 04.06.2011 10:45 PM PDT

I have a good bit of the halo canon, bar the re-released books and the graphic novels.

The problem I have with the disagreement is the statement "Bungie said '-blam!- THE CANON'." I personally don't see all these massive glaring errors that make the book and game unable to coexist.

I just think going "Bungie said 'We are -blam!- up the canon we've created just to make the game work.'" is a little too far. I have the legendary commentary. The campaign/head producer guy (forget the exact title.) comments Reach does fit in. Perfectly? perhaps not from what we can see. But as with all the halo lore we aren't seeing the entire picture.

The book's version of the battle of Reach is a completely different viewpoint, and a slightly limited one at that.

  • 04.06.2011 11:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I just think going "Bungie said 'We are -blam!- up the canon we've created just to make the game work.'" is a little too far.
The majority of the Halo fanbase couldn't care less about the canon. Saying Bungie made Reach with the "fun-factor" at the forefront of their minds isn't that farfetched of a conclusion.

  • 04.06.2011 11:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I have a good bit of the halo canon, bar the re-released books and the graphic novels.

The problem I have with the disagreement is the statement "Bungie said '-blam!- THE CANON'." I personally don't see all these massive glaring errors that make the book and game unable to coexist.

I just think going "Bungie said 'We are -blam!- up the canon we've created just to make the game work.'" is a little too far. I have the legendary commentary. The campaign/head producer guy (forget the exact title.) comments Reach does fit in. Perfectly? perhaps not from what we can see. But as with all the halo lore we aren't seeing the entire picture.

The book's version of the battle of Reach is a completely different viewpoint, and a slightly limited one at that.


We aren't seeing the entire picture? What else is there to see? All other canon sources say Reach was hit hard by a surprise attack on one day then the game comes out and says there was heavy fighting on the surface and space before that. Bungie made a conscious effort to retcon the entire battle. Thats all there is to it. The problem is they not only refuse to admit this but insist that TFoR's version of the battle still happened which isn't possible given the time frame and the way the events played out.

  • 04.06.2011 11:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Nameless Oracle

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I have a good bit of the halo canon, bar the re-released books and the graphic novels.

The problem I have with the disagreement is the statement "Bungie said '-blam!- THE CANON'." I personally don't see all these massive glaring errors that make the book and game unable to coexist.

I just think going "Bungie said 'We are -blam!- up the canon we've created just to make the game work.'" is a little too far. I have the legendary commentary. The campaign/head producer guy (forget the exact title.) comments Reach does fit in. Perfectly? perhaps not from what we can see. But as with all the halo lore we aren't seeing the entire picture.

The book's version of the battle of Reach is a completely different viewpoint, and a slightly limited one at that.


We aren't seeing the entire picture? What else is there to see? All other canon sources say Reach was hit hard by a surprise attack on one day then the game comes out and says there was heavy fighting on the surface and space before that. Bungie made a conscious effort to retcon the entire battle. Thats all there is to it. The problem is they not only refuse to admit this but insist that TFoR's version of the battle still happened which isn't possible given the time frame and the way the events played out.

Exactly. Bungie is acting as if everything is well and they are no problems whatsoever.

  • 04.06.2011 11:42 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Vegerot
This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!


Mjolner armor has some sort of speed limiter that won't let a Spartan run at their fastest as with the armor it would injure them, just look at what Chief did to himself in Mark V test, and the Sprint AA allows them to temporarily overload the limiter and basically turn it off. That's how it works to my understanding at least, and keep in mind that gameplay limits how the AA would really work and what a Spartan can really do outside, so don't act like Spartans need an Armor Ability to be able to run.


Oh come on, please don't defend that lame attempt of a cover up of why a basic ability was not so basic anymore.

An armor wouldn't completely stop someone from sprinting in a combat zone just to stop them from getting injured. Either it is a torn ligament (and the only reason MC had that in the Mark V test is because he was injured beforehand), or death.

It is simply backward to think that that MJOLNIR armor would have any protocol that would limit the ability of a Spartan, especially considering their tolerance for pain as well as other considerations.

Plus, how do you run so fast that you injure yourself?

  • 04.06.2011 11:57 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
You fail to include Halsey's journal, which connects the book and the game.

Not very well.

  • 04.07.2011 12:15 AM PDT


Posted by: Fantomfox64

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Vegerot
This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!


Mjolner armor has some sort of speed limiter that won't let a Spartan run at their fastest as with the armor it would injure them, just look at what Chief did to himself in Mark V test, and the Sprint AA allows them to temporarily overload the limiter and basically turn it off. That's how it works to my understanding at least, and keep in mind that gameplay limits how the AA would really work and what a Spartan can really do outside, so don't act like Spartans need an Armor Ability to be able to run.


Oh come on, please don't defend that lame attempt of a cover up of why a basic ability was not so basic anymore.

An armor wouldn't completely stop someone from sprinting in a combat zone just to stop them from getting injured. Either it is a torn ligament (and the only reason MC had that in the Mark V test is because he was injured beforehand), or death.

It is simply backward to think that that MJOLNIR armor would have any protocol that would limit the ability of a Spartan, especially considering their tolerance for pain as well as other considerations.

Plus, how do you run so fast that you injure yourself?


Boosted by the armor, they can move faster then their body can handle, hence the torn ankles.

Also, when Master Chief ran that fast, guess what? He was seriously -blam!- up afterwards. That and smacking the missile aside (If I'm thinking correctly) made it to where he literally had to wait for medical evac, and couldn't go far on his own.

I'd rather a 'speed' limiter then going super fast to evade something and then losing a chunk of my agility and speed.

In response to 'seeing' the whole picture. We do not have every detail of the battle of Reach. In the Fall of Reach, we witnessed the major space battle, when the defenses fell. In Halo Reach, we witness a different aspect of the battle, one which does not contradict the book's version. At most we simply have this correction "On August 30th, a massive Covenant fleet arrived in system and destroyed any defenses, marking the fall of Reach."

Not an exact quote, but I can get the video produced by 343 and waypoint which says just that. If it clashed so horribly with the rest of canon, 343, which has stated the lore is one of their major things, would not accept Reach.

  • 04.07.2011 12:20 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Fantomfox64

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Vegerot
This is a small problem I have, and I don't know that answer to it!
How the hell is Sprint canon?!


Mjolner armor has some sort of speed limiter that won't let a Spartan run at their fastest as with the armor it would injure them, just look at what Chief did to himself in Mark V test, and the Sprint AA allows them to temporarily overload the limiter and basically turn it off. That's how it works to my understanding at least, and keep in mind that gameplay limits how the AA would really work and what a Spartan can really do outside, so don't act like Spartans need an Armor Ability to be able to run.


Oh come on, please don't defend that lame attempt of a cover up of why a basic ability was not so basic anymore.

An armor wouldn't completely stop someone from sprinting in a combat zone just to stop them from getting injured. Either it is a torn ligament (and the only reason MC had that in the Mark V test is because he was injured beforehand), or death.

It is simply backward to think that that MJOLNIR armor would have any protocol that would limit the ability of a Spartan, especially considering their tolerance for pain as well as other considerations.

Plus, how do you run so fast that you injure yourself?


Boosted by the armor, they can move faster then their body can handle, hence the torn ankles.

Also, when Master Chief ran that fast, guess what? He was seriously -blam!- up afterwards. That and smacking the missile aside (If I'm thinking correctly) made it to where he literally had to wait for medical evac, and couldn't go far on his own.

I'd rather a 'speed' limiter then going super fast to evade something and then losing a chunk of my agility and speed.

In response to 'seeing' the whole picture. We do not have every detail of the battle of Reach. In the Fall of Reach, we witnessed the major space battle, when the defenses fell. In Halo Reach, we witness a different aspect of the battle, one which does not contradict the book's version. At most we simply have this correction "On August 30th, a massive Covenant fleet arrived in system and destroyed any defenses, marking the fall of Reach."

Not an exact quote, but I can get the video produced by 343 and waypoint which says just that. If it clashed so horribly with the rest of canon, 343, which has stated the lore is one of their major things, would not accept Reach.


I never talked about the loss of reach, only the sprint.

Also, the thing is, MC was already injured before he sprinted, and was hurt even more by having done so. Also, we have no way of knowing whether or not he would have hurt himself by simply walking to the goal.

Their body could handle the speed, proven by everyone always running in the novels without getting injured.

And, to reiterate, there is no way that combat armor would have an inhibitor on one of the most essential parts of combat: movement. If there is a choice between torn achilles heel and several plasma grenades wrecking me, I'd take the hurt foot.

Finally, MC wasn't seriously messed up after sprinting, for a
spartan. Spartans had a high tolerance for pain, i.e. Kelly was "fighting when she should have been in a coma". I'm pretty sure that a torn heel wouldn't slow down the chief too much (yay puns)

  • 04.07.2011 12:36 AM PDT