- OrderedComa
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- Noble Member
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Improvement is fine. Completely altering the entire encounter is a different story (no pun intended).
And other than extending the timeline a bit nothing is at all altered, all the events of the Battle of Reach can take place exactly as in TFoR with the exception of how the battle started and a bit of the end.
And though you might not see it that way, sometimes completely altering an entire encounter is[/b] an improvement.
Why does it matter if it was PROMETHEUS. We aren't just discussing Noble 6 here, but all of Noble team. Second you obviously didn't read the quote seeing as it clearly gives you an idea of how difficult it would be to black bag someone during a high risk operation. But I guess you think there is no limit or even logic to ONI's actions. They just black bag people left, right, front and center regardless of location or situation?
And no, he wouldn't steal the info for MJOLNIR, why? Cause he had no use for it in the Spartan III program. If he wanted the MJOLNIR armor he'd of used it on all the III's. And I don't recall him "stealing" the Spartan II research more so than taking the idea and executing it himself.
And no, Spartan II's are larger and stronger than Spartan III's specifically because the Spartan II's got two modifications the III's did not (muscle growth hormone and a spinal nerve growth implant). This is why Spartan II's, as displayed in Reach, are larger than III's. There is also record of Kelly launching a III into a tree in Ghosts of Onyx.
The situations on K4-79 and Pegasi-delta are completely different scenarios, it would be no challenge whatsoever to "black bag" as you put, someone from operation TORPEDO. And I never said I thought that Six was abducted from TORPEDO, I know for a fact how she survived the op, she was never even part of the mission to begin with. And yes, I do think ONI can black bag almost whoever the hell they want, there are limits to what they can do, but if they can make a planet completely disappear and kidnap 75+ children and get completely away with it, then abducting Spartans would not be impossible, hell, as I said earlier, they've already done it!
He could not have had the SIIIs augmented properly unless he somehow got a hold of Halsey's research, it may not have been him specifically who stole the research, but it would have been done on his orders. So ultimately he did steal it as he is the one responsible for the SIIIs.
The only Spartan II we actually see in Reach is Jorge, and he's bigger than all of the other SIIs except for maybe Sam. So we have no accurate size comparison for SIIs and SIIIs, and I've seen nothing at all to say that they are at all weaker than the SIIs or smaller.
Yet that still doesn't make sense. If Ackerson wanted to black bag people, why reveal that Tom survived to Kurt at all? It doesn't make any sense. Hell why even try to recruit Tom? Hell why go to such great lengths to steal some Spartan III's when you could probably of snatched a couple II's and had a much higher chance of them surviving their missions? Wait, that already happened! Grey and Black were both that, yet apparently two Spartan II teams weren't enough for Spec Ops/Black Ops missions.
Ackerson is not really someone who has been deeply explored, if I knew more about his motivations or his true character I could probably tell, but we don't have that, so I have no answer.
As for the rest of your point her. Why go to the trouble of abducting SIIs when you already have the cream of the crop from your own project, and who are much closer to the SIIs than the rest of the IIIs, easily and readily available? And in case you hadn't forgotten most of the SIIs were dead by that point, and the UNSC lost contact with Grey Team sometime between the Cole Protocol and the end of TFoR. And we don't know where Black Team is, or even if they're still alive.
Then where the hell did they get MJOLNIR? I thought you said that Ackerson stole MJOLNIR from Halsey yet if Ackerson had nothing to do with Noble then why do they have MJOLNIR?
I did not say that Ackerson stole Mjolner, I said he [i]could have, that is what I meant at least. It could have just as easily been Kurt who got the plans for Mjolner armor, as he spent time forging contacts and using all of his privileges of rank in order to be able to accomplish his own ends rather than Ackerson's when he needed to.
They were the new pod, AKA a mass produced tool used by all UNSC troops. New maybe, but unique? Not in the slightest. If you think my context is off then check yourself. I gave the page number. I looked through the book for a description of their pods but these were all that fit the bill.
I don't have the book, so I cannot look up the context, and until I see it I have no proper answer to your point. And on top of that I simply do not recall it mentioning the Slipspace pods as something mass produced or regularly used at that time. Perhaps working its way there, but it sounds to me like it was more in the prototype/field testing stages.
It can be assumed it was similar for Alpha. Beta started with 375 candidates and yet they were only going to allow 300 through to augmentation. I doubt that was something new seeing as the previous company had exactly 300 as well.
And those guys all had to go somewhere, some are accounted for, yes, as the trainers for the SIIIs, but I highly doubt that there are over 200 trainers, and there would be no real need to replace them either as they're on the front lines or anything of the sort. Some of them either became the Headhunters or were placed in teams like Noble.
The original has an entire inner monologue about him not expecting them nor knowing how to handle them precisely because they were new to him. If they weren't then they would have SOME reference of how they fight based on any information gathered from Harvest (which basically means Johnson).
I only know the original edition of First Strike, so we know the same thing. New to him does not exclude being a new species, and they did not do much fighting with the Brutes or any of the Covenant on Harvest except for the Grunts, and what little intel they had on the Brutes would not be enough for Chief or any Spartan to know how to properly fight them.
'm saying don't hold the lack of knowing something as an argument. If we cannot reference the material it has no bearing on what is being discussed.
My point that claiming anything as drastic as what a lot of this forum is proposing is preposterous still stands. We don't know how they connect, we do know that TFoR and Reach connect because Bungie has said that they do, just because we do not see the connections does not mean that they are not there.