- UL7IM4 G33K
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- Senior Legendary Member
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien
Posted by: OrderedComa
Perhaps so, but that is not a definite fact, specifics may possibly have to be changed, but we have very vague information right now, so you cannot state with any degree of certainty that events have changed at all.
And you can't say they haven't. This kind of argument is futile. What we should be discussing the likelihood and possibility of current events occurring as they did within the new time frame and that likelihood is many times slim or requires great alteration of cannon to accommodate.
There are innumerable reasons for why it went unwiped, I can't say what exactly, because no reason has been given yet. But I do know this, ONI are not always the most willing to follow the laws or policies laid down by the UNSC, so there could be some completely legitimate (to ONI at least) for not initiating the Cole Protocol.
One I can think of would be that the Circumference was not going to remain at Reach for very long and the data was not wiped for that reason, or the crew was killed off when the Covenant Fleet of Particular Justice joined the attack on Reach and caught the UNSC off guard, leaving no one around to purge the data. Becuase we both know that Doppler (I think that was the AI anyway) couldn't do it because of the ONI lockdown on the ship.
Not even ONI would risk the destruction of the human race for random interests.
And Red Teams drop from orbit and Blue Team's mission to purge the Circumference did indeed still happen, as one of the recent videos on Halo Waypoint talks about them still happening.
Lets go through the first situation.
1) How? If the PoA was docked how is Red Team to be dropped from orbit?
2) Why? Why send all of your greatest fighters on an incredibly risky drop mission through a hot zone when you had enough time to distribute them across the surface before it hit the fan?
The details of why she did not take part in TORPEDO are clearly laid out in canon, you are simply refusing to acknowledge or accept them, I gave them to you, but you wouldn't listen. The same for Kat as well.
Again, you aren't reading what I'm typing. Beta had ONLY 300 Spatan III's. Tom stated that in training there was only 300 slots for them to fill. Thus, this means that if all 300 Spartan III's save for Tom and Lucy died in TORPEDO then Noble 6 was never a part of that 300 and therefore was never augmented. There is no room for Beta to have extras. Tom's quote makes sure of that.
Like I said, ONI is overcautios quite frequently, they don't want anyone asking "awkward" questions, which is why they operate the way they do. If it was carried out at all it would be wherever the ship was when it launched the Slipspace Pods. And remember, the ship wasn't going anywhere near Pegasi-delta, hence the use of the Slipspace Pods to deliver Beta Company. There would be absolutely no danger, as there would be no Covenant ships present, and the ship wasn't going anywhere near Covenant controlled space.
See, this argument has been bugging me alot. You keep telling me ONI can do something cause that's what they do and how they are as if that is evidence. It isn't. ONI doesn't just spend their days kidnapping people and finding crafty ways to do everything in complete secrecy. They are a group of people with ulterior motives and they will go about achieving those goals with the utmost efficiency. Kidnapping and non-existence isn't always their answer.
BTW, the pods were dropped out of slipspace, they did not travel through it on their own power. So the ship would have had to be reasonably close to the planet. What made it safe for them was the fact they didn't have to leave slipspace. Still you have yet to give me evidence beyond one piece of marketing and mounds of conjecture.
Where are you getting your facts from, might I ask? I've never seen anything saying that the average SII and average SIII are any different in height or weight.
It is as simple as looking at their heights and weights, adding them and then dividing by the number. And seeing that a large number of Spartan II's were exactly 7 feet I'm pretty sure the average comes out to 7 feet.
No, actually it's really not, as most black ops teams, to my understanding at least, often do not really exist either.
True, but the difference between 4-8 men and someone who is running an entire operation that is training 300 non-existant people? They do not equate.
Actually the Spartan III program had no fatalities from augmentations due to medical advances made since the days of the SIIs' augmentations, nor were there any washouts due to augmentation failures either for the same reason.
If you've read the books, you should know that augmentation wasn't the only potentially fatal thing in the program. Training is equally dangerous as is Onyx itself. Over the course of several years of training I am sure a good number of them either cracked mentally, were injured greatly or possibly even died during a training exercise.
And there was hardly any combat, not enough to be able glean any information from it, the Brutes bolted out of there pretty much as soon as things turned aggressive. And as I said with the second one, it was pretty much only the Grunts that they fought on the Tiara with a very brief appearance by Tartarus and the Drones put in toward the end of the conflict.
A description of strength, height, weight, technology? Any of these would be helpful. Knowing about the potential of an enemy is just as good as knowing exactly what their capable of. Unfortunately, in First Strike the enemy and all details about them were a mystery.
Gameplay, which is why Jerome does not have it in the "Monsters" cutscene when Forge kills Moramee; gameplay again, Spartans would not be a very effective special unit if they were very, very, very easy to kill which is what they would be without the shields; Elites being encountered throughout the whole war was retconned long ago, this is not something new that Halo Wars introduced; Brutes had a fighting force all throughout the war, they were just normally not really fielded in active combat roles until nearer the end of the war, and also, the Brutes were only encountered in a small squad on the Shield World once; nothing wrong with the Flood making an appearance either, the Spirit of Fire is MIA because it couldn't make it back to the UNSC due to sacrificing it's Slipspace drive, so no word of the Flood makes it back to the UNSC and then they are "first" discovered on Alpha Halo as per Halo:CE. There is nothing to complain about canon wise regarding Halo Wars.
Yet, for some reason, it cannot send any communique? The ship should have been able to at least send a message to the UNSC even without its Slipspace drive. Halo Wars itself is a huge conundrum because while I agree that, specifically as an RTS, the game required many of those elements it could have easily been in an entirely different time period. But if what happens in-game is so easily disregarded as gameplay based then we could possibly say that in Reach the Spartan III's didn't ahve MJOLNIR nor did they have shields (seeing as Kat died despite having her armor on). Hell, perhaps they aren't even III's seeing as the game doesn't even state they are.
That is the very nature of what you are doing! You and many others in this very thread are picking and choosing what you want as canon and disregarding the rest because you either don't like it, or you think it does not fit.
We don't think, we KNOW. DIRECTLY CONFLICTING STATEMENTS about how long the battle of Reach took place. A group of soldiers that was originally stated as all KIA (the III's) with armor they SHOULD NOT HAVE. These are all DIRECT CONFLICTS with existing storyline. This isn't about "thinking" they don't fit but them actually not fitting.
The Halo canon is as cohesive as it ever has been. The only item that even fits what you describe is Halo: Reach, and even then people are way overreacting and making absurd claims that have no basis in reality or exercise any rational thought. And what the opposition to Reach really boils down to is "Reach wasn't exactly TFoR, I don't like it, therefore it must not be canon and it has completely destroyed the story laid out for the rest of the Halo universe!" and then they stick their fingers in their ears and won't listen to any opinions stating otherwise, whether they are rationally thought out opinions or the exact opposite!
It isn't about it not being the same. It is about it almost completely disregarding the book. I swear it is almost as if they themselves hadn't read the novel with how conflicting it truly is with both FoR and GoO. If anyone is sticking their fingers in their ears its you. I've heard every argument you have stated, asked questions about them and yet you insist on sitting here promising me that "oh, the Halo Bible and Bungie have all the info so in there it MUST make sense!". The fact is it does not.
[Edited on 04.23.2011 1:09 PM PDT]