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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
Alpha Halo is a completely different scenario than landing a ship such as the Autumn on a UNSC controlled planet under normal circumstances. It would be hard because they don't have any equipment to help it land. And the landing in CE was hardly a crash, it was glided in, which (to me) implies that it can fly in the atmosphere, it was simply out of the ordinary circumstances and a proper landing was out of the question, so it they had to make a crash landing, much like a a plane having to land in a large, empty field.

Except the Flood didn't say anything of the sort. I'd consider space more of a mix between the two really, but w/e, this is kind of irrelevant :P

Water is equated to space all the time. This is why Astronauts train in water for space missions. Second, you obviously didn't read the expanded quote from the book that I posted. Keyes was expecting the ship to PANCAKE on landing and went on to state it was a landing best experienced from a distance. He seems to be pretty grim about the prospect of landing it at all.


I'm talking about the J.J. Abrams version. And I distinctly remember the Enterprise being inside the atmosphere of the Vulcan's planet.

Then you were probably misunderstanding the scene. The ship never entered the atmosphere.

Well I didn't think it was fine, the flow into the Battle of Reach was executed rather poorly, imo. No, but with most books I've read the title figures a lot into the plot even if a specific event it mentions does not occur 'til later. And I'm pretty sure that's the norm for the majority of books. TFoR, it just didn't do that, and I think it suffered a bit for that.
And from the sounds of the book you are mentioning it sounds like what I was talking about earlier, there would be mentions of preventing a moon war or events that inevitably, and obviously, bring the war about. But I really can't say for certain since I haven't read it.

Actually, the prospect of war was hardly even considered till near the end of the book. Besides, FoR encompasses many situations and events. The Spartan II program, several battles such as with Keyes and the Keyes' Loop, Harvest, Sigma Octaneous, as well as Reach. The book was a ground layer for the entire plot of CE while Moonwar was a book well into a series (which I was not aware of at the time).

I can reference it all I want or need. As I said, sources I trust, both people I know, and reading the summary of the Journal on Halopedia, which corelates with what I've learned from people I know, are what have led to that conclusion and claim. It's not the same as reading the Journal, no, but that does not make your opinion more valid because you were already biased against Reach. I may be biased toward the opinion that Reach didn't break canon, but I didn't start that way, I was willing to explore options and see how things still fit together (if they did) and I know that they can and do fit.
A summary =/= the actual thing. Nor does your friends summaries of the journal. I have read it through several times and payed close attention to its detail (especially since Halsey is one of my favorite characters) and honestly it was a nice try but not nearly enough. The only thing it adequately explained was the Cortana fragment, but even then the circumstances surrounding it still go unfixed. The Journal also conflicts with First Strike where she first learned of the Spartan III's (after the battle of Reach) while the Journal states she learned of them earlier.

  • 05.12.2011 5:43 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

sorry for the double

[Edited on 05.12.2011 5:47 PM PDT]

  • 05.12.2011 5:47 PM PDT

There is a thing you are ignoring G33K...

The PoA was badly damaged when they were doing this. I'd expect it to be grim as well if the ship was going in for an unguided crash landing when it already had heavy damage to the hull and power core.

That said, Reach would also have the tugs/things to help with landing, things they did not have at the halo.

Edit: I remember in the commentary they mention a guy in the office did the math to how much fuel was required to launch it.

[Edited on 05.12.2011 5:55 PM PDT]

  • 05.12.2011 5:55 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
There is a thing you are ignoring G33K...

The PoA was badly damaged when they were doing this. I'd expect it to be grim as well if the ship was going in for an unguided crash landing when it already had heavy damage to the hull and power core.

So why is the first thing described not the amount of damage but the fact it isn't made to work in the atmosphere? Obviously what was mentioned was more significant to his attempt to land than the damage was. You guys still haven't given a reason the ship would need to land either. Why did the whole damn ship have to land if they could easily have retrieved it with a Pelican, Longsword or Shortsword?

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
That said, Reach would also have the tugs/things to help with landing, things they did not have at the halo.

Why? What purpose would they EVER have landing a ship of that size when they have stations for it? What in gods name could ever give them a reason to land that size of a ship besides for decommission? And even then, you might as well disassemble in space and not on the surface. You are telling me all these things that "could" happen to make it work but you give no reason as to WHY! Why would they expend monstrous amounts of resources to do something they don't have to do or could have done another, more efficient way?

[Edited on 05.12.2011 6:31 PM PDT]

  • 05.12.2011 6:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
There is a thing you are ignoring G33K...

The PoA was badly damaged when they were doing this. I'd expect it to be grim as well if the ship was going in for an unguided crash landing when it already had heavy damage to the hull and power core.

That said, Reach would also have the tugs/things to help with landing, things they did not have at the halo.

Edit: I remember in the commentary they mention a guy in the office did the math to how much fuel was required to launch it.


1. damaged or not there isn't a reason for a ship that large to be in atmosphere. period.

If you look at a frigate the bottom of it looks like it could be landed on something strong enough to support it. not to mention frigates are easier to control.

Now look at the bottom of the PoA and you can clearly see that thing wasn't made for landings of any type.

2. Why would it need to be in atmosphere though? And I can not see the PoA (which is a huge target) running through/around dozens of CCS carriers to get near reach. Then having to hook up to several tug vessels that would help it down to the planet.
Then landing in an extremely hot zone all while not taking any damage, not having swarms of ships/dropships around it, and just sitting in the middle of hell waiting for cortana.

I have done drugs, but not any type of drug to make me look at that and say that is possible to happen.

[Edited on 05.13.2011 10:18 AM PDT]

  • 05.13.2011 10:10 AM PDT

Maybe that area received the boat loads of Covenant forces AFTER the landing?

  • 05.13.2011 10:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Maybe that area received the boat loads of Covenant forces AFTER the landing?


the invasion was already fully underway, hell you can see the base in the distance obliterated. Not to mention that the have complete space control over the planet.

  • 05.13.2011 10:16 AM PDT

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Water is equated to space all the time. This is why Astronauts train in water for space missions. Second, you obviously didn't read the expanded quote from the book that I posted. Keyes was expecting the ship to PANCAKE on landing and went on to state it was a landing best experienced from a distance. He seems to be pretty grim about the prospect of landing it at all.


Yeah, because they're going in without equipment or protocols that'd make it a safer landing, makes sense to me to abandon ship when you don't have the right resources to properly land it even if it can go in an atmosphere. The way it's worded about him planning for it to pancake implies to me at least that he meant for it to be a bad landing so the Covenant couldn't gain anything from the Autumn. And also the ship had sustained a bunch of damage during the fight, another reason why it would be safer to be further away when it crashed.

A summary =/= the actual thing. Nor does your friends summaries of the journal. I have read it through several times and payed close attention to its detail (especially since Halsey is one of my favorite characters) and honestly it was a nice try but not nearly enough. The only thing it adequately explained was the Cortana fragment, but even then the circumstances surrounding it still go unfixed. The Journal also conflicts with First Strike where she first learned of the Spartan III's (after the battle of Reach) while the Journal states she learned of them earlier.

A summary is enough to understand the issues and what it addresses, and I didn't say my friends just summarized it, I said they talked about and explained what issues it discussed and fixed.

Actually no it doesn't at all, she doesn't know about any SIIIs other than Noble, and even then she doesn't know about the IIIs, merely that it would seem ONI started another Spartan project or was continuing her own without her knowledge. And the Journal says she didn't have the time to go digging around, so obviously she didn't know about the SIIIs 'til First Strike when she went digging through Ackerson's files after finding out that he was digging through the medical records of her Spartans. Plus, knowing Halsey, the information she found in First Strike wouldn't really be enough to just make her go dashing off into the unknown and kidnapping a Spartan as well, the information in the Journal, and her suspicions deduced from mysterious shipments and the disappearance of a UNSC medical vessel for a short time, gives much more credence to her actions at the end of First Strike.

  • 05.13.2011 12:55 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
There is a thing you are ignoring G33K...

The PoA was badly damaged when they were doing this. I'd expect it to be grim as well if the ship was going in for an unguided crash landing when it already had heavy damage to the hull and power core.

That said, Reach would also have the tugs/things to help with landing, things they did not have at the halo.

Edit: I remember in the commentary they mention a guy in the office did the math to how much fuel was required to launch it.


1. damaged or not there isn't a reason for a ship that large to be in atmosphere. period.

If you look at a frigate the bottom of it looks like it could be landed on something strong enough to support it. not to mention frigates are easier to control.

Now look at the bottom of the PoA and you can clearly see that thing wasn't made for landings of any type.

2. Why would it need to be in atmosphere though? And I can not see the PoA (which is a huge target) running through/around dozens of CCS carriers to get near reach. Then having to hook up to several tug vessels that would help it down to the planet.
Then landing in an extremely hot zone all while not taking any damage, not having swarms of ships/dropships around it, and just sitting in the middle of hell waiting for cortana.

I have done drugs, but not any type of drug to make me look at that and say that is possible to happen.


1. There is if all the ship repair dock yards have been used as shields against the Covenant fleet's plasma fire. And DaeFaron was talking about why the landing on Alpha Halo was dire, because the Autumn had sustained a large amount of damage in the fight against the Covenant ships before going in for the crash landing.

That's why it had a holding cradle when it landed on Reach, because it can't just go around landing by itself, it needs support for the landing, and the proper procedures to get it there.

2. We dont' know when the Autumn headed down for Reach, and we don't know when the space battle above Reach was completely lost. All we know is that the fight was lost sometime between 6:15 or so and about 4:30. The Autumn may have had to fight its way down, and it may not have, I think Halsey would have called Keyes down as soon as she was close to having the data downloaded or whatever specifically it was she was doing with the Cortana fragment.

  • 05.13.2011 1:04 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
Yeah, because they're going in without equipment or protocols that'd make it a safer landing, makes sense to me to abandon ship when you don't have the right resources to properly land it even if it can go in an atmosphere. The way it's worded about him planning for it to pancake implies to me at least that he meant for it to be a bad landing so the Covenant couldn't gain anything from the Autumn. And also the ship had sustained a bunch of damage during the fight, another reason why it would be safer to be further away when it crashed.

There is no evidence at all that there is a system set into place to land a ship like the Autumn. There is no need for it save for in this ONE circumstance (referring to the Autumn on Reach, not in The Flood/Halo CE), a DESPERATE one at that. So why in the hell would they have a system for landing if it was never needed until this one moment? If you can't give me a good reason for them to land ships such as the Autumn on a regular basis BEFORE the Battle of Reach then your reasoning has nothing to back it up.

And as I already stated, if he was concerned about the damage why mention the fact it wasn't meant for the atmosphere over his concern for the damage? I'm sure that it not being meant for atmospheric operation was far more significant than any damage it had taken if that is where his concerns were.


A summary is enough to understand the issues and what it addresses, and I didn't say my friends just summarized it, I said they talked about and explained what issues it discussed and fixed.

Actually no it doesn't at all, she doesn't know about any SIIIs other than Noble, and even then she doesn't know about the IIIs, merely that it would seem ONI started another Spartan project or was continuing her own without her knowledge. And the Journal says she didn't have the time to go digging around, so obviously she didn't know about the SIIIs 'til First Strike when she went digging through Ackerson's files after finding out that he was digging through the medical records of her Spartans. Plus, knowing Halsey, the information she found in First Strike wouldn't really be enough to just make her go dashing off into the unknown and kidnapping a Spartan as well, the information in the Journal, and her suspicions deduced from mysterious shipments and the disappearance of a UNSC medical vessel for a short time, gives much more credence to her actions at the end of First Strike.

Another Spartan project is exactly what the Spartan III's are. Even if she didn't know they were specifically III's she knew it was another Spartan project.


Posted by: OrderedComa
1. There is if all the ship repair dock yards have been used as shields against the Covenant fleet's plasma fire. And DaeFaron was talking about why the landing on Alpha Halo was dire, because the Autumn had sustained a large amount of damage in the fight against the Covenant ships before going in for the crash landing.

That's why it had a holding cradle when it landed on Reach, because it can't just go around landing by itself, it needs support for the landing, and the proper procedures to get it there.

2. We dont' know when the Autumn headed down for Reach, and we don't know when the space battle above Reach was completely lost. All we know is that the fight was lost sometime between 6:15 or so and about 4:30. The Autumn may have had to fight its way down, and it may not have, I think Halsey would have called Keyes down as soon as she was close to having the data downloaded or whatever specifically it was she was doing with the Cortana fragment.


1. There was only ONE massive repair ship used to block incoming plasma fire if I recall. Other stations are just that, stations. Usually a docking station doesn't move much and I doubt they would be practical as shields either. I've already commented on the rest of this. You seem to be devoid of a reason as to why such a procedure would even exist.

2. Except that this "data" didn't exist until this game, which is another problem. We seem to be assuming that autumn had to land for information that is only described as "important". Yet this data could easily have been relayed by Halsey AFTER the fall of Reach due to the events in First Strike. Much of these canonical breaks could have easily molded into the established story but instead we have an entirely new series of events that just don't flow well.

  • 05.13.2011 1:28 PM PDT

If memory serves, there were 3-5 repair and refit stations similar to the Cradle involved at the battle of Reach.

  • 05.13.2011 2:04 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
If memory serves, there were 3-5 repair and refit stations similar to the Cradle involved at the battle of Reach.

Even so, they are only a portion of the stations surrounding Reach. It would be idiotic to think that they only had those repair and refit stations and no other stations that could dock with ships. Especially since MC was on just one of those stations.

  • 05.13.2011 2:34 PM PDT

Chapter 13, paragraph 16 of First Strike (2003) has Cathrine Halsey saying:

"I know the Covenant entered the Epsilon Eridani system at approximately oh-five-hundred hours."

This passage takes place on August 30th.

EDIT: Does the Definitive Edition contain this passage? It was released on December 12th of last year, which is three months after the game.

[Edited on 05.13.2011 10:37 PM PDT]

  • 05.13.2011 10:32 PM PDT

Heh! They're slick. Here's what the 2010 edition says:

"With regard to recent events, I likely know far more about this than you do, but let's stick with today. I know that the Covenant arrived in full force at approximately oh-five-hundred hours."

I bet anything they're repairing The Fall of Reach for release next month. I wonder how they're going to make it fit.

[Edited on 05.13.2011 10:45 PM PDT]

  • 05.13.2011 10:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
There is a thing you are ignoring G33K...

The PoA was badly damaged when they were doing this. I'd expect it to be grim as well if the ship was going in for an unguided crash landing when it already had heavy damage to the hull and power core.

That said, Reach would also have the tugs/things to help with landing, things they did not have at the halo.

Edit: I remember in the commentary they mention a guy in the office did the math to how much fuel was required to launch it.


1. damaged or not there isn't a reason for a ship that large to be in atmosphere. period.

If you look at a frigate the bottom of it looks like it could be landed on something strong enough to support it. not to mention frigates are easier to control.

Now look at the bottom of the PoA and you can clearly see that thing wasn't made for landings of any type.

2. Why would it need to be in atmosphere though? And I can not see the PoA (which is a huge target) running through/around dozens of CCS carriers to get near reach. Then having to hook up to several tug vessels that would help it down to the planet.
Then landing in an extremely hot zone all while not taking any damage, not having swarms of ships/dropships around it, and just sitting in the middle of hell waiting for cortana.

I have done drugs, but not any type of drug to make me look at that and say that is possible to happen.


1. There is if all the ship repair dock yards have been used as shields against the Covenant fleet's plasma fire. And DaeFaron was talking about why the landing on Alpha Halo was dire, because the Autumn had sustained a large amount of damage in the fight against the Covenant ships before going in for the crash landing.

That's why it had a holding cradle when it landed on Reach, because it can't just go around landing by itself, it needs support for the landing, and the proper procedures to get it there.

2. We dont' know when the Autumn headed down for Reach, and we don't know when the space battle above Reach was completely lost. All we know is that the fight was lost sometime between 6:15 or so and about 4:30. The Autumn may have had to fight its way down, and it may not have, I think Halsey would have called Keyes down as soon as she was close to having the data downloaded or whatever specifically it was she was doing with the Cortana fragment.


The ship docks aren't really large nor are they mobile, you are talking about the huge medical stations and other like it that were used for cover. not the refit stations.

It is beyond me why you guys are trying to support something like this. We haven't ever even seen large covenant ships touch ground even when they need repairs in atmosphere so there must be a reason for that.

  • 05.14.2011 6:23 AM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: OrderedComa
Yeah, because they're going in without equipment or protocols that'd make it a safer landing, makes sense to me to abandon ship when you don't have the right resources to properly land it even if it can go in an atmosphere. The way it's worded about him planning for it to pancake implies to me at least that he meant for it to be a bad landing so the Covenant couldn't gain anything from the Autumn. And also the ship had sustained a bunch of damage during the fight, another reason why it would be safer to be further away when it crashed.

There is no evidence at all that there is a system set into place to land a ship like the Autumn. There is no need for it save for in this ONE circumstance (referring to the Autumn on Reach, not in The Flood/Halo CE), a DESPERATE one at that. So why in the hell would they have a system for landing if it was never needed until this one moment? If you can't give me a good reason for them to land ships such as the Autumn on a regular basis BEFORE the Battle of Reach then your reasoning has nothing to back it up.


Think of it like this, Bungie could simply had another space mission, appeasing the fans and making a level a billionty times more epic than what we saw. Instead they go for an Autumn landing scene.

Now, it is of no importance if you cannot get your head around WHY, simply because Bungie had their reasons for doing so and must have a canon explanation for it. Sooner or later "canon" and technical issues get resolved, but for some reason you can't seem to just sit back and enjoy the ride. :/

Not to mention this is not the first time we have seen a cruiser sized ship in atmosphere. Marketing media may be lowest canon, but it's still canon after all.


One "reason" is because they can. Humans are incredibly good at using technology to give us a false sense of security. Being able to land a ship on solid ground makes anyone on board feel much safer. Not to mention that H&S would never allow a starship that couldn't safely land in case of emergency.

See that? Real world explanation applied to Halo. Cool innit?

  • 05.14.2011 11:43 AM PDT

still don't understand the argument of Pillar of Autumn being able to land, don't understand how someone thinks something like that can land on a planet as it is absolutely enormous! found the 'little boosters' at the end of Reach hilarious to say the least, what the hell possessed Bungie to do that, its like a cat picking up an Elephant!

come on though, who seriously thinks the Autumn can land under its own power and lift-off again, before Halo: Reach came along with its stupid 'boosters'...? want to know how one thinks this is achievable as well, without simply saying 'anti-gravity' since nothing has ever hinted at the humans in Halo having anti-gravity technology.

  • 05.14.2011 11:49 AM PDT


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
still don't understand the argument of Pillar of Autumn being able to land, don't understand how someone thinks something like that can land on a planet as it is absolutely enormous! found the 'little boosters' at the end of Reach hilarious to say the least, what the hell possessed Bungie to do that, its like a cat picking up an Elephant!

come on though, who seriously thinks the Autumn can land under its own power and lift-off again, before Halo: Reach came along with its stupid 'boosters'...? want to know how one thinks this is achievable as well, without simply saying 'anti-gravity' since nothing has ever hinted at the humans in Halo having anti-gravity technology.


*points at the PoA, and a few other UNSC ships having gravity without spinning sections.*

*Points at the numerous times in halo 2, 3, and Reach we see frigates in atmosphere.

  • 05.14.2011 12:06 PM PDT

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
There is no evidence at all that there is a system set into place to land a ship like the Autumn. There is no need for it save for in this ONE circumstance (referring to the Autumn on Reach, not in The Flood/Halo CE), a DESPERATE one at that. So why in the hell would they have a system for landing if it was never needed until this one moment? If you can't give me a good reason for them to land ships such as the Autumn on a regular basis BEFORE the Battle of Reach then your reasoning has nothing to back it up.

And as I already stated, if he was concerned about the damage why mention the fact it wasn't meant for the atmosphere over his concern for the damage? I'm sure that it not being meant for atmospheric operation was far more significant than any damage it had taken if that is where his concerns were.


Obviously there is, since they have those tugs in Reach, and that whole cradle landing pad thing was there. As to why a ship would have a reason to land, I can't think of anything right now off the top of my head...but I'll get back to you on it. Though I think what Rotary said several posts above is a good suggestion, makes perfect sense to me.

I didn't say he was solely concerned about the damage, I was saying that would be why he believed it would pancake and the landing would be better experienced away from the Autumn. I'd be nervous about landing too if I didn't have the right resources and similar things to help the ship land, the quote does not indicate to me anything about it not being able to fly in atmosphere.

Another Spartan project is exactly what the Spartan III's are. Even if she didn't know they were specifically III's she knew it was another Spartan project.

And how is that breaking canon? And being another Spartan program would be merely a suspicion, because as I said, for all she knew they could have been a second batch of IIs. Halsey really didn't know anything definite until First Strike, and as I said, the information she gained from Ackerson's file as well as the vague hunches and proofs she had found before makes her actions seem much more in tune with her character.

1. There was only ONE massive repair ship used to block incoming plasma fire if I recall. Other stations are just that, stations. Usually a docking station doesn't move much and I doubt they would be practical as shields either. I've already commented on the rest of this. You seem to be devoid of a reason as to why such a procedure would even exist.

2. Except that this "data" didn't exist until this game, which is another problem. We seem to be assuming that autumn had to land for information that is only described as "important". Yet this data could easily have been relayed by Halsey AFTER the fall of Reach due to the events in First Strike. Much of these canonical breaks could have easily molded into the established story but instead we have an entirely new series of events that just don't flow well.


1. That was at the Battle of Sigma Octanus, not Reach, easy confusion to make though, lots of the space battle have a tendency to blend together for me as well. Halopedia says in its summary of the battle that at least three repair and refit stations were used as shields by the UNSC in the first phase of the space battle. Well they obviously were practical shields or the UNSC would not have used them as such.

2. Last I checked none of the Halo characters have the gift of prophecy, there would be no way anyone would know that Halsey and Red Team would meet up with the Chief in First Strike, and with the Covenant practically knocking on your door, if there's information you want to safe-guard, you'll try and get it away from Covenant hands by any means necessary.

[Edited on 05.14.2011 12:25 PM PDT]

  • 05.14.2011 12:24 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
If memory serves, there were 3-5 repair and refit stations similar to the Cradle involved at the battle of Reach.

Even so, they are only a portion of the stations surrounding Reach. It would be idiotic to think that they only had those repair and refit stations and no other stations that could dock with ships. Especially since MC was on just one of those stations.


Reach Station Gamma wasn't really repair station, it was for communications and smaller ships such as Prowlers docked inside it. It repaired smaller ships, but that was it, it wasn't meant for large repair jobs such as on Frigate, Destroyers, or stuff like that.

  • 05.14.2011 12:28 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
Obviously there is, since they have those tugs in Reach, and that whole cradle landing pad thing was there. As to why a ship would have a reason to land, I can't think of anything right now off the top of my head...but I'll get back to you on it. Though I think what Rotary said several posts above is a good suggestion, makes perfect sense to me.

This "established system" is an assumption using the game we are currently disputing. Without REASON there is no point to having a system. Having it because they do is stupid. Something existing because it exists is paradoxical. And for emergencies, yes. I can understand that. But let me give you an example about how emergencies in similar situations today are handled.

Lets take the crash landing of a plane. If a plane cannot land properly do they send tug planes out to assist it land? No, they don't. They clear the landing site and minimize the collateral damage. This would more than likely be the same procedure for any ships in an emergency situation that could not make it to a station. Planes are made to crash land as best they can but they are not meant to crash "safely". Anyone getting on a plane knows that in the event of an emergency their lives are not guaranteed. Just like those serving on a naval ship understand that when their ship sinks all they have is their life rafts to save them and the hope they are retrieved before the elements overcome them.

The same would be true for a space ship.

Posted by: OrderedComa
I didn't say he was solely concerned about the damage, I was saying that would be why he believed it would pancake and the landing would be better experienced away from the Autumn. I'd be nervous about landing too if I didn't have the right resources and similar things to help the ship land, the quote does not indicate to me anything about it not being able to fly in atmosphere.

But his PRIORITY is placed on it NOT BEING MADE FOR ATMOSPHERE. That is my point. Assuming he had concerns about damage when his concerns were obviously elsewhere is just the same as putting words in his mouth. WHY would he be MORE CONCERNED about the fact the ship wasn't made for atmospheric operation than the heavy damage it had taken? Possibly because regardless of the damage it had taken, landing was a bad idea to begin with.

And how is that breaking canon? And being another Spartan program would be merely a suspicion, because as I said, for all she knew they could have been a second batch of IIs. Halsey really didn't know anything definite until First Strike, and as I said, the information she gained from Ackerson's file as well as the vague hunches and proofs she had found before makes her actions seem much more in tune with her character.
Another batch of II's that she isn't aware of? That IS another Spartan program. Regardless of how you make it sound, they were Spartans from a program Halsey didn't know of, aka ANOTHER PROGRAM!

Posted by: OrderedComa
1. That was at the Battle of Sigma Octanus, not Reach, easy confusion to make though, lots of the space battle have a tendency to blend together for me as well. Halopedia says in its summary of the battle that at least three repair and refit stations were used as shields by the UNSC in the first phase of the space battle. Well they obviously were practical shields or the UNSC would not have used them as such.

If you read the thread someone corrected me on this already. And I'm talking about the stations around Reach that obviously WERE NOT those ones, seeing as MC was on such a station. Those are not the only stations surrounding Reach.

Posted by: OrderedComa
2. Last I checked none of the Halo characters have the gift of prophecy, there would be no way anyone would know that Halsey and Red Team would meet up with the Chief in First Strike, and with the Covenant practically knocking on your door, if there's information you want to safe-guard, you'll try and get it away from Covenant hands by any means necessary.

Ugh... I'm talking STORY WISE, not characters. In terms of writing the storyline it could have been done that way and still worked. There are NUMEROUS ways it COULD HAVE BEEN but Bungie opted for an entirely new series of events that conflict with most everything that originally happened, as such conflicting with FOUR BOOKS (Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx).

Posted by: OrderedComa
Reach Station Gamma wasn't really repair station, it was for communications and smaller ships such as Prowlers docked inside it. It repaired smaller ships, but that was it, it wasn't meant for large repair jobs such as on Frigate, Destroyers, or stuff like that.

Regardless, it proves there are smaller stations that are not the ones used for shields. Which was my point. Yet you seem to think my point was that it was a repair station. Congrats on arguing a completely irrelevant detail.

[Edited on 05.15.2011 4:45 PM PDT]

  • 05.15.2011 4:44 PM PDT

I noticed that in Reach on the mission 'The pillar of Autumn' that marines on board were wearing different armor then in halo CE, also Keye's uniform was altered and the marine pilots had different helmets.

  • 05.19.2011 5:43 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Killer Cajun
I noticed that in Reach on the mission 'The pillar of Autumn' that marines on board were wearing different armor then in halo CE, also Keye's uniform was altered and the marine pilots had different helmets.


thats called a graphical update

  • 05.20.2011 9:46 AM PDT

The body armor on the marines were completely different

[Edited on 05.21.2011 5:07 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 11:41 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: Killer Cajun
The body armor on the marines were completly different
Those were army, not marines.

  • 05.20.2011 1:04 PM PDT