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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: immadchill
"Before Operation: PROMETHEUS however, Kurt and Mendez hand-picked an unknown number of candidates that stood out from the rest and removed them from the company, assigning them to other units. They were also issued with more advanced equipment such as MJOLNIR armor to make their battlefield prowess comparable to that of the SPARTAN-IIs. These individuals included Emile-A239, Carter-A259 and Jun-A266, but their overall number is unknown. These Spartans also later served in a special operations unit known as Noble Team, along with candidates originally removed from Beta Company"-Halopedia page on Alpha company

Halopedia is fan written so this could be a fan's interpretation of how Noble came about. Still, my question is: were they augmented separate from the other III's making the number difference irrelevant? Or were they augmented with the III's and the previous numbers now require change?


Not fanfiction.

And no, they were not augmented separately, they just got transferred out of the companies before their respective missions. The numbers have been retconned ever since Evolutions came out.

  • 05.22.2011 2:06 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: immadchill
"Before Operation: PROMETHEUS however, Kurt and Mendez hand-picked an unknown number of candidates that stood out from the rest and removed them from the company, assigning them to other units. They were also issued with more advanced equipment such as MJOLNIR armor to make their battlefield prowess comparable to that of the SPARTAN-IIs. These individuals included Emile-A239, Carter-A259 and Jun-A266, but their overall number is unknown. These Spartans also later served in a special operations unit known as Noble Team, along with candidates originally removed from Beta Company"-Halopedia page on Alpha company

Halopedia is fan written so this could be a fan's interpretation of how Noble came about. Still, my question is: were they augmented separate from the other III's making the number difference irrelevant? Or were they augmented with the III's and the previous numbers now require change?


You can't just write Halopedia off as fanfiction, it's as reliable as any other Wiki out there or Wikipedia. There may be unreliable segments, but it's a good place to get the basics of Halo information, and the people there are the same sort of people you'd find here, they care just as much about canon as we in the Universe do, they're not going to post utter rubbish as fact.

  • 05.22.2011 2:54 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Not fanfiction.

And no, they were not augmented separately, they just got transferred out of the companies before their respective missions. The numbers have been retconned ever since Evolutions came out.

Fall of Reach supersedes any and all Marketing material. If that second part is true and what Tom said in GoO has been rewritten then fine. But please give me a quote from the book so that I'll believe you. There has yet to be anyone who has tried to prove Tom's statement false with new canon. But, from what I can tell, Evolutions explains nothing about that part of canon.

Posted by: OrderedComa
You can't just write Halopedia off as fanfiction, it's as reliable as any other Wiki out there or Wikipedia. There may be unreliable segments, but it's a good place to get the basics of Halo information, and the people there are the same sort of people you'd find here, they care just as much about canon as we in the Universe do, they're not going to post utter rubbish as fact.

You didn't read what I said. I said it was WRITTEN BY FANS, which it IS. I never said it was FAN FICTION. As with ANY wiki article it is only as truthful as those who put the information there. Assuming its fact is naive. I wasn't saying the statement is wrong just that it might not be completely truthful.

  • 05.22.2011 3:24 PM PDT
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All the Spartan IIIs on Noble Team were pulled out before the suicidal missions.

For Alpha Company, Carter, Emile, Jun and (possibly) other Spartan IIIs were pulled out before Operation Promotheus.

For Beta company, all of the Spartan IIIs worthy of not being sent on suicidal missions were pulled out right before Pegasi Delta.

Also, these Spartans were pulled out DISCRETELY from the program because Kurt and Mendez didn't want Ackerson finding out.

The TARGET age was seven. If Carter were committed enough and had the aptitude, they( SIII recruiters) would have made an exception( with discretion from Kurt Ambrose and Colonel Ackerson).


The Pillar of Autumn had to go back to Reach because the invasion force increased significantly( after Jorge destroyed the carrier, a whole lot of covenant ships exited slipspace).

From what I remember reading somewhere (possibly halopedia, so not 100% accurate, Master Chief wanted to keep the prophet mission active because capturing the prophet would possibly create a cease fire between humanity and the covenant, therefore saving Reach, However, when more and more ships came to the Epsilon Eridani system after Jorge destroyed the super carrier, the PoA had to retreat( once again, not completely sure).



It is POSSIBLE the Circumference did not follow the Cole Protocol due to unknown reasons.

  • 05.22.2011 7:06 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: GuN
All the Spartan IIIs on Noble Team were pulled out before the suicidal missions.

For Alpha Company, Carter, Emile, Jun and (possibly) other Spartan IIIs were pulled out before Operation Promotheus.


Yeah, two other examples are the original Noble Six, Thom 293 and Rosenda 344. Their companies are not revealed whatsoever so they could be either Alpha or Beta.

  • 05.22.2011 8:14 PM PDT


Posted by: GuN
It is POSSIBLE the Circumference did not follow the Cole Protocol due to unknown reasons.


Actually, we know exactly why it didn't.

Cortana's tickering while trying to get payback at Ackerson resulted in the Circumference being completely isolated from all systems, and erased from the station logs to prevent knowledge about some ONI OP from being potentially stolen.

  • 05.22.2011 8:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: GuN
It is POSSIBLE the Circumference did not follow the Cole Protocol due to unknown reasons.


Actually, we know exactly why it didn't.

Cortana's tickering while trying to get payback at Ackerson resulted in the Circumference being completely isolated from all systems, and erased from the station logs to prevent knowledge about some ONI OP from being potentially stolen.


Woah, I completely missed that. Thanks for telling me!

  • 05.23.2011 12:23 PM PDT

Halo Reach 2/3rds of the way mythic conqueror (6/9)

Eh what ever Bungie does to their game is what is excepted they are the master. So even with the books bungie rules.

  • 05.23.2011 6:44 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: GuN
It is POSSIBLE the Circumference did not follow the Cole Protocol due to unknown reasons.


Actually, we know exactly why it didn't.

Cortana's tickering while trying to get payback at Ackerson resulted in the Circumference being completely isolated from all systems, and erased from the station logs to prevent knowledge about some ONI OP from being potentially stolen.


While invisible to sensor sweeps, it doesn't exactly make it clear how the physical crews of both Gamma Station and the Circumference herself missed it until the last second.

Edit: Granted, according to the original time line it makes perfect sense because of how swift the attack came, but considering the month long presence to ONI personnel it is still illogical that the Circumference wasn't cleared prior to the end.

[Edited on 05.23.2011 7:42 PM PDT]

  • 05.23.2011 7:41 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: GuN
It is POSSIBLE the Circumference did not follow the Cole Protocol due to unknown reasons.


Actually, we know exactly why it didn't.

Cortana's tickering while trying to get payback at Ackerson resulted in the Circumference being completely isolated from all systems, and erased from the station logs to prevent knowledge about some ONI OP from being potentially stolen.


While invisible to sensor sweeps, it doesn't exactly make it clear how the physical crews of both Gamma Station and the Circumference herself missed it until the last second.

Edit: Granted, according to the original time line it makes perfect sense because of how swift the attack came, but considering the month long presence to ONI personnel it is still illogical that the Circumference wasn't cleared prior to the end.


Two things.

A: cole protocol was probably not intitated till the space battle.
B: Sounded like the ship had no crew yet, and I think that OP got canned.
C: The crew of the station wouldn't have checked, because they AI handled the wipes.

  • 05.23.2011 8:45 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: GuN
It is POSSIBLE the Circumference did not follow the Cole Protocol due to unknown reasons.


Actually, we know exactly why it didn't.

Cortana's tickering while trying to get payback at Ackerson resulted in the Circumference being completely isolated from all systems, and erased from the station logs to prevent knowledge about some ONI OP from being potentially stolen.


While invisible to sensor sweeps, it doesn't exactly make it clear how the physical crews of both Gamma Station and the Circumference herself missed it until the last second.

Edit: Granted, according to the original time line it makes perfect sense because of how swift the attack came, but considering the month long presence to ONI personnel it is still illogical that the Circumference wasn't cleared prior to the end.


Two things.

A: cole protocol was probably not intitated till the space battle.
B: Sounded like the ship had no crew yet, and I think that OP got canned.
C: The crew of the station wouldn't have checked, because they AI handled the wipes.


Three things for which there is currently no proof to support either side of the issue but leaves the possibility for either equally in the open.

A. Why would Cole Protocol be established long after first contact with the Covenant on Reach? While one could say the Visagrad and Sword Base incidents were kept under wraps, it does not excuse the weeks following the far more pronounced presence of Covenant on the ground and in space in Tip of the Spear/Long Night of Solace. Winter Contingency is clear, and the Cole Protocol would have been established at the very least by the time the battles in the Viery Territory were underway and Covenant reinforcements slipped into the system.

B. Where is it suggested the ship had no crew assigned at all at the time, and even in the event of a lack of Op, why wouldn't there there would still be a skeleton crew assigned to the ship to maintain it during its time docked? During this time period it's noted that the Circumference was undergoing upgrades on its stealth systems, so at least someone was present at all times on the ship or at the station to oversee or personally handle the upgrades. So again, why wasn't the purge personally initiated by those on the ship.

and finally the big thing that's inconsistent with the scenario

C. Ultimately, again going back to B and A, no one physically assigned to the Circumference or those aware of the Circumference being isolated from Gamma Station's computers bothered to check the ship during the amount of time from Cole Protocol being initiated to the very last second when Covenant forces detect the ship. Sure the crew of Gamma Station would be none the wiser because that was exactly what ONI wanted, yet ONI personnel, particularly operatives Coalminer and Surgeon, as well as any crew and contractors are in the position to notice this during such a gap of time.

Overall the inconsistency is hardly a breaker in the grander scheme of things, but it's still an inconsistency left unanswered nonetheless.

  • 05.23.2011 9:35 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

The Cole Protocol states that you will purge data about Earth and other human population centers upon CONTACT with the Covenant.

  • 05.23.2011 10:56 PM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

Just my two cents but wasn't the relay going to need two weeks to reboot and it served the whole region I think. Having that down would make it hard to get the news out (or easy for ONI to hide it)

  • 05.23.2011 11:02 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Okay guys, ban is over and I'm back to debate (I'll miss being an Exalted Legendary)!

I'm still standing by my argument, Halo: Reach is nothing but ONI propaganda concocted to give the people a false sense and instillment of hope, security and heroism. While nothing in the Legendary edition directly suggests this, nothing refutes it either.

Judging by the Legendary Edition, the intel of NOBLE's actions aren't released to anyone until January 2610. That's plenty of time for ONI to release false information and educate (or re educate) the public on the fall of Reach. Why? I don't know. But it certainly makes more sense than trying to "squeeze in" Halo Reach to the Fall of Reach.

  • 05.24.2011 5:52 AM PDT

They call me The Raptor due to my extreme interest in dinosaurs specifically velociraptor.

Posted by: privet caboose
Here is a compilation of errors that we, the universe elite, have created in light of Halo: Reach's launch. Note, that this is STILL a work in progress, and will be upgraded as new breaks are located.



Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.

Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.



Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1



Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.



Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach



Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach


Special Thanks:
-ajw23207
-MOB74656
-xXFatal v1
-opog
-Kippa



If I've missed any errors, please, point them out. I'll add them to the OP, or try to explain them.

Also, if you have any explanation to these canon errors, please, explain how they fit into canon, and the sources.


There are also mistakes between games as well. Besides Reach did not really fall in one day, that seems too quick. Oni is part of the government and the government apparently can not lie in the games? Maybe they took some Spartans from Alpha Company and left the rest?

  • 05.24.2011 5:57 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

the space battle lasted 2 hours wich caused the planet to be taken under a day.

Land battles lasted up to a month max.

  • 05.24.2011 6:16 AM PDT

Sorry to bust back in after being gone for a while, but I threw this together after several hours of work:

PDF - XPS

[Edited on 05.24.2011 7:51 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 7:15 PM PDT

Bacon and eggs and eggs and bacon

Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. I've compared them, and the dates are wrong.

  • 05.25.2011 5:05 AM PDT

Posted by:UL7IM4 G33K
They were all augmented together and from the book it seems these candidates were thinned out over time. They would know who and who didn't make the cut. Sure, some of these "failures" we'll call them could have been grabbed by a seperate sub-program for the Headhunters but from what the book states the Headhunters and Noble were not part of Kurt's 300 in either Alpha or Beta company.


What I said is none of the IIIs would know if other were augmented later, after they were deployed. Well that may be your interpretation, I sure never got it when reading the book.

Knowing when it got there wasn't necessarily important until the timeline changed but as of now since no time of arrival is given the logical assumption would be that it has been there since the battle started at least. And "in the area" doesn't really mean "it can shoot me". It probably means something along the lines of in-system where they can easily come into contact.

And why would that be a more logical assumption to make? It could mean that, but I'm not so sure it would. In any case I think that fleet that came in after the destruction of the LNoS was something they could push back with relative ease. My theory, for if it was a late arrival, it arrived close to when the first fleet had very few ships left and purging the nav data would be superfluous.

All of the ships in the UNSC fleet should have wiped their data banks of anything relating to Earth just before any major engagement and the moment they learned that the Covenant found Reach they probably would have done the same. This just means wiping anything that can guide the Covenant to Earth, which is minimal information at best.

I'm sure the fleets jumping in did so because they'd be jumping into an active warzone and direct contact with the Covenant, and I'm sure bases and such on Reach would at the very least have the erasal procedure all set up. What's making me wonder if it was only executed when it was dead certain that direct contact with Covenant forces was imminent is the Gamma Station AI sending out his distress call midway through the battle.

I don't know WHY you would group them up. You can't defend a position with all your guns pointing in one direction. Not in space, anyway. That's the equivalent of having a battleship that can only shoot to its left. Second, the ship should have been taken down fairly quickly. It was ONE SHIP and I'm pretty sure over the course of several days the SMAC's could have been repositioned.

Well I don't know how large a grouping is or how far apart the stations would be but I got the impression from the book that the SMACs were all on one side of the planet. Also, just because they're all in one group doesn't mean they're fixed in one direction, they'd have thrusters to adjust themselves. IIRC Reach had much more ODPs than just the SMACs that were more spread out around the planet. Didn't the book say that the SMACs had a certain range? I don't see why it's so preposterous that the Supercarrier would be hiding out of range and away from danger. I'm sure the SMACs could have been moved in range of the LNoS, but why do that if you already have a strategy planned out?

I;m pretty sure when the Autumn was recalled from the edge of the system to defend Reach that RED FLAG was basically cancelled.

Well not in Chief's eyes at least, he intended to grab a Covenant ship during or after the battle and initiate RED FLAG. Keyes's job was just to get them a Covenant ship (before the Covenant attacked Reach) and doing that would be much easier in a battle. That's what I remember from the book at least, and that's why I said that RED FLAG wasn't truly scrapped until Red Team went to the Generators and Blue Team went Gamma Station.

The Covenant doesn't sabotage. The Covenant knew little about how humanity operated anyways. On top of that, they thought of them as an infestation. I don't see why the Covenant would take so many precautions against an enemy they thought of as no better than dirt. The only ones who knew any better were the Prophets and even then giving such orders would hint at them acknowledging the competence of the human race which is the last thing they wanted to do. You could even say that it was the Prophets rash behavior that allowed the UNSC to fight back as much as it did.

I'm not so sure about that, you've read/seen Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian right? Well they set a trap up for the Midlothian in order to try and sieze its NAV data. Also, as COnversations from the Universe that came with Halo 2 indicated many of the Elites wondered why Humanity wasn't being forgiven and offered a place within the Covenant, so the Elites at least did not just think of Humans as utter vermin nearer the end of the war. They valued their tenacity and their meager (in Sangheili eyes at least) skills in combat. They knew that the UNSC was not something to really underestimate.

  • 05.25.2011 7:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa



All of the ships in the UNSC fleet should have wiped their data banks of anything relating to Earth just before any major engagement and the moment they learned that the Covenant found Reach they probably would have done the same. This just means wiping anything that can guide the Covenant to Earth, which is minimal information at best.

I'm sure the fleets jumping in did so because they'd be jumping into an active warzone and direct contact with the Covenant, and I'm sure bases and such on Reach would at the very least have the erasal procedure all set up. What's making me wonder if it was only executed when it was dead certain that direct contact with Covenant forces was imminent is the Gamma Station AI sending out his distress call midway through the battle.

They don't start cole protocol unless a ship has been breached or under curcumstances where it will come into contact with covenant forces (halo- PoA). If it were the case you were trying to support coma the PoA should already have it's data purge in reach's last level. Which it doesn't.


I;m pretty sure when the Autumn was recalled from the edge of the system to defend Reach that RED FLAG was basically cancelled.

Well not in Chief's eyes at least, he intended to grab a Covenant ship during or after the battle and initiate RED FLAG. Keyes's job was just to get them a Covenant ship (before the Covenant attacked Reach) and doing that would be much easier in a battle. That's what I remember from the book at least, and that's why I said that RED FLAG wasn't truly scrapped until Red Team went to the Generators and Blue Team went Gamma Station.

RED FLAG was given prior to the attack on reach and the UNSC didn't know when they were going to be attacked only that they eventually would be. RED FLAG didn't have any relation to the battle of reach until (has he said) it was called back from the edge of the system to help out in which the mission was scrapped.

The Covenant doesn't sabotage. The Covenant knew little about how humanity operated anyways. On top of that, they thought of them as an infestation. I don't see why the Covenant would take so many precautions against an enemy they thought of as no better than dirt. The only ones who knew any better were the Prophets and even then giving such orders would hint at them acknowledging the competence of the human race which is the last thing they wanted to do. You could even say that it was the Prophets rash behavior that allowed the UNSC to fight back as much as it did.

I'm not so sure about that, you've read/seen Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian right?

That was all done by an Arbiter, not the covenant as a whole. He is right, they don't do sabotage.




[Edited on 05.25.2011 9:44 AM PDT]

  • 05.25.2011 9:43 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
What I said is none of the IIIs would know if other were augmented later, after they were deployed. Well that may be your interpretation, I sure never got it when reading the book.

I'm just saying that from how Ghosts of Onyx puts things, and the fact the Headhunters were completely hidden from the rest of the III's it may be safe to assume that they were not a part of Kurt's III's at all.

And why would that be a more logical assumption to make? It could mean that, but I'm not so sure it would. In any case I think that fleet that came in after the destruction of the LNoS was something they could push back with relative ease. My theory, for if it was a late arrival, it arrived close to when the first fleet had very few ships left and purging the nav data would be superfluous.
Its logical because assuming it did something is more prone to error than assuming it was just there already. In the original book that was the way it was made out to be. How can it have "just arrive" if it was around long enough for Cortana to assault it (something she would be hard pressed to do while on the Autumn without a linkup to the ONI grid or during a Covenant engagement).

I'm sure the fleets jumping in did so because they'd be jumping into an active warzone and direct contact with the Covenant, and I'm sure bases and such on Reach would at the very least have the erasal procedure all set up. What's making me wonder if it was only executed when it was dead certain that direct contact with Covenant forces was imminent is the Gamma Station AI sending out his distress call midway through the battle.
The Cole Protocol states that they do so on CONTACT with the Covenant, that doesn't mean handshaking distance but within visible/sensor range. When the Covenant show up, it usually means they're there for a reason. After all, I'm sure the UNSC could tell at that point the Covenant's mission was not conquest, but extermination.

Well I don't know how large a grouping is or how far apart the stations would be but I got the impression from the book that the SMACs were all on one side of the planet. Also, just because they're all in one group doesn't mean they're fixed in one direction, they'd have thrusters to adjust themselves. IIRC Reach had much more ODPs than just the SMACs that were more spread out around the planet. Didn't the book say that the SMACs had a certain range? I don't see why it's so preposterous that the Supercarrier would be hiding out of range and away from danger. I'm sure the SMACs could have been moved in range of the LNoS, but why do that if you already have a strategy planned out?
You are taking my analogy too literally. The reason I say they are pointing in one direction is because literally half of the position you are defending now no longer has any defenses. If all you guns are on one side of the planet you can only fire on things that are visible from that position which means the other side of the planet is a giant blind spot. Defending a planet is far different than defending a ground position. You have to worry about all three spatial dimensions.

And the range of the SMAC's was their falloff, in other words their effective accuracy as with any projectile weapon. The round can only move so fast and therefore as the distance increases the accuracy decreases. At some point the Covenant ships would just maneuver out of the way. That doesn't really mean anything for something BELOW the SMAC's, seeing as I'm sure they are designed to fire farther than their orbital distance from the planet. In that case there is no such thing as "out of range" in the planet's atmosphere (which is exactly where that ship is at the start of the game).

The last part has me confused. The UNSC wasn't "planning" for anything. A ship suddenly shows up, hell yeah they'll diver a portion of their defenses to destroying it. And if it is a prelude to a Covenant attack then grouping up their weapons in one nice, targetable cluster would be the LAST thing they would do.

Well not in Chief's eyes at least, he intended to grab a Covenant ship during or after the battle and initiate RED FLAG. Keyes's job was just to get them a Covenant ship (before the Covenant attacked Reach) and doing that would be much easier in a battle. That's what I remember from the book at least, and that's why I said that RED FLAG wasn't truly scrapped until Red Team went to the Generators and Blue Team went Gamma Station.
Master Chief is an enlisted man, not an officer. I also think his idea, if he even had it, was based on the assumption they'd win the battle.

I'm not so sure about that, you've read/seen Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian right? Well they set a trap up for the Midlothian in order to try and sieze its NAV data. Also, as COnversations from the Universe that came with Halo 2 indicated many of the Elites wondered why Humanity wasn't being forgiven and offered a place within the Covenant, so the Elites at least did not just think of Humans as utter vermin nearer the end of the war. They valued their tenacity and their meager (in Sangheili eyes at least) skills in combat. They knew that the UNSC was not something to really underestimate.
Halo 2 was a point of civil war within the Covenant, its understandable for them to question their superiors seeing as that was the point. But, during Reach, CE and pretty much everything beforehand the Prophets indoctrinated the Covenant to despising Humanity to the point that they wouldn't even touch their weaponry and considered speaking in the human tongue disgusting.

And most of the Covenant engagements show their lack of competence in complex warfare. The Covenant's fighting methods are more akin the British in the American Revolution while the UNSC is the United States. On top of that I feel the main reason the Covenant were so rash in their combat techniques was because of their dogmatic approach. Altering their ways would be admitting defeat just as much as losing the battle.

  • 05.25.2011 9:44 AM PDT

I think this is the real reason so many people dislike the campaign, its not the game play....its the broken canon and the boring half-a$$ way Bungie chose to depict Reach, Fall of Reach was epic and Reach was meh....uncinamatic, unexciting, and lacted scale. Where were the massive armies and fleets?...the whole BLAM game took place inside Nobile Six's helmet...the ending was Boring too. Its even worse than Halo 2's ending!
Oh hello Capt. Keys..oh good bye Capt. Keys, it was sure exciting to see you fly away at a distance....the best part in the Reach campaign was the Master Chief easter egg!

  • 05.25.2011 3:22 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Mellon 051
Its even worse than Halo 2's ending!


Um all of the halo games have orgasmic endings (meh in response to reach)

  • 05.25.2011 3:25 PM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
I'm not so sure about that, you've read/seen Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian right? Well they set a trap up for the Midlothian in order to try and sieze its NAV data. Also, as COnversations from the Universe that came with Halo 2 indicated many of the Elites wondered why Humanity wasn't being forgiven and offered a place within the Covenant, so the Elites at least did not just think of Humans as utter vermin nearer the end of the war. They valued their tenacity and their meager (in Sangheili eyes at least) skills in combat. They knew that the UNSC was not something to really underestimate.
Halo 2 was a point of civil war within the Covenant, its understandable for them to question their superiors seeing as that was the point. But, during Reach, CE and pretty much everything beforehand the Prophets indoctrinated the Covenant to despising Humanity to the point that they wouldn't even touch their weaponry and considered speaking in the human tongue disgusting.

And most of the Covenant engagements show their lack of competence in complex warfare. The Covenant's fighting methods are more akin the British in the American Revolution while the UNSC is the United States. On top of that I feel the main reason the Covenant were so rash in their combat techniques was because of their dogmatic approach. Altering their ways would be admitting defeat just as much as losing the battle.


Reach,Halo CE,and Halo 2 all took place in about two to three months...While earlier on in the war you were right to think that they'd think of us a vermin, the attitude of the elites towards the end of the war was very respectful. The alot of the elite leaders (and most with experience) took the UNSC highly seriously and often were as cautious as can be. I'd compare the behavior of the elites in the late end of the war as equal to that of an American Marine in WW2 vs Japan. The elites hate the hell out of us but they understand deeply that each inch they'll attempt to take will lead to blood.

Oh and the elites weren't really dumbed down at all (that's why Truth disliked them) even the younger ones would soon learn not to take the UNSC lightly. The elites were smart, and rather quick witted over the "controlled species" and Elites pretty much were second only due to their love of combat.

[Edited on 05.25.2011 5:01 PM PDT]

  • 05.25.2011 4:56 PM PDT

-The Goose

i was almost positive than Jun was from beta company, could be wrong tho...

  • 05.25.2011 5:19 PM PDT