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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: immadchill
I don't think Alloy likes Reach. But when you think about it, Reach isn't that bad.

I think you like Reach, but when you think about it, Reach isn't that good.

  • 06.03.2011 6:33 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: immadchill
I don't think Alloy likes Reach. But when you think about it, Reach isn't that bad.

I think you like Reach, but when you think about it, Reach isn't that good.

Oi, oi lads wats goin on 'ere.

Wanna settle it in the ring?

Heehe , the halo kind that is ;)

  • 06.03.2011 6:36 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: immadchill
I don't think Alloy likes Reach. But when you think about it, Reach isn't that bad.

I think you like Reach, but when you think about it, Reach isn't that good.


I was joking around no need to get offended, and I can think up most excuses for what's wrong canonically.

  • 06.03.2011 6:43 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: immadchill

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: immadchill
I don't think Alloy likes Reach. But when you think about it, Reach isn't that bad.

I think you like Reach, but when you think about it, Reach isn't that good.


I was joking around no need to get offended, and I can think up most excuses for what's wrong canonically.

Relax, I was joking around. No need to get offended.

  • 06.03.2011 7:12 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99
Sorry, but you're wrong.

Halsey's Journal and marketing material has fixed VERY little the errors of Halo Reach. And marketing material is rated as third, according to canon "rules". Game being first and novels being second in canon "rules". Market material does not override the canon.

There's some content in the game is canon-breaking such as wrong timeline, PoA being on ground which it is impossible due to massive weight and consider about laws of physics applied to it too. And Halycon-class cruisers or Marathon-Class cruisers or larger ships ARE NOT rated for atmosphere. You may argue that PoA went on Halo but it was not case. They were forced to land down since they suffered massive damage from fighting against battle-group of CCS battle-cruisers.

Spartan-IIIs were fine with me for now.

And it does "conflict" the novels of The Fall of Reach, First Strike and little bit of Ghost of Onyx.

Some things in Reach can be simply retconned, but others can't be retconned so simply, it would require to re-write novels.


Actually no I'm not. A lot of the "errors" are no longer errors because the Journal and the marketing materials for Reach have explained them, thus making them no longer errors.

You are overlooking the key detail of canon ranking, marketing materials make take a space below the books and games, but that's only if old marketing material conflicts with something new. New marketing material for a new game will take priority over information for an older game or book.

  • 06.04.2011 1:04 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: raganok99
Sorry, but you're wrong.

Halsey's Journal and marketing material has fixed VERY little the errors of Halo Reach. And marketing material is rated as third, according to canon "rules". Game being first and novels being second in canon "rules". Market material does not override the canon.

There's some content in the game is canon-breaking such as wrong timeline, PoA being on ground which it is impossible due to massive weight and consider about laws of physics applied to it too. And Halycon-class cruisers or Marathon-Class cruisers or larger ships ARE NOT rated for atmosphere. You may argue that PoA went on Halo but it was not case. They were forced to land down since they suffered massive damage from fighting against battle-group of CCS battle-cruisers.

Spartan-IIIs were fine with me for now.

And it does "conflict" the novels of The Fall of Reach, First Strike and little bit of Ghost of Onyx.

Some things in Reach can be simply retconned, but others can't be retconned so simply, it would require to re-write novels.


Actually no I'm not. A lot of the "errors" are no longer errors because the Journal and the marketing materials for Reach have explained them, thus making them no longer errors.

You are overlooking the key detail of canon ranking, marketing materials make take a space below the books and games, but that's only if old marketing material conflicts with something new. New marketing material for a new game will take priority over information for an older game or book.


you are wrong because the journal didn't explain anything other than halsey that NOBLE team were ONI spartans and that cortana had a certain part of her copied to study the crystal.
o0o it also said that miranda was halseys daughter.

That is all the journal explained so i wish you would stop spreading the idea that it "fixed" everything because it didn't. If you actually had the journal and could read it you would know this but you don't so stop it.

  • 06.04.2011 1:11 PM PDT

And, you know, the Journal and letter and such are labeled as canon.

Most marketing is not.

Thing I love with this "PoA COULD NOT LAND, IT WOULD BE CRUSHED DUE TO IT'S SIZE AND WEIGHT!" argument is that it crashed on halo, and it's structural integrity was pretty solid and it wasn't in too bad of a condition.

  • 06.04.2011 1:12 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And, you know, the Journal and letter and such are labeled as canon.

Most marketing is not.

Thing I love with this "PoA COULD NOT LAND, IT WOULD BE CRUSHED DUE TO IT'S SIZE AND WEIGHT!" argument is that it crashed on halo, and it's structural integrity was pretty solid and it wasn't in too bad of a condition.
this again, why?


It crashed on halo it wasn't flying about in the atmosphere, gravity pulled the beast down.

Which is what should have happened in reach because it didn't have any thrusters underside to counter that and propel it up seeing how it is to heavy to just do that.

  • 06.04.2011 1:16 PM PDT

Didn't have thrusters we could see, just like the frigates.

For all we know, the anti-grav tech they reverse engineered could be used on larger ships for landing purposes only.

And, it flew into halo and crashed, it wasn't simply pulled down. and that was completely uncontrolled :D.

  • 06.04.2011 1:48 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa
New marketing material for a new game will take priority over information for an older game or book.

No.

  • 06.04.2011 3:17 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And, you know, the Journal and letter and such are labeled as canon.

Most marketing is not.

Thing I love with this "PoA COULD NOT LAND, IT WOULD BE CRUSHED DUE TO IT'S SIZE AND WEIGHT!" argument is that it crashed on halo, and it's structural integrity was pretty solid and it wasn't in too bad of a condition.

Letter is canon? Fine.

Halo: Reach = ONI propogando in their perspective.

The Fall of Reach = God-perspective.

  • 06.04.2011 3:19 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: raganok99
Sorry, but you're wrong.

Halsey's Journal and marketing material has fixed VERY little the errors of Halo Reach. And marketing material is rated as third, according to canon "rules". Game being first and novels being second in canon "rules". Market material does not override the canon.

There's some content in the game is canon-breaking such as wrong timeline, PoA being on ground which it is impossible due to massive weight and consider about laws of physics applied to it too. And Halycon-class cruisers or Marathon-Class cruisers or larger ships ARE NOT rated for atmosphere. You may argue that PoA went on Halo but it was not case. They were forced to land down since they suffered massive damage from fighting against battle-group of CCS battle-cruisers.

Spartan-IIIs were fine with me for now.

And it does "conflict" the novels of The Fall of Reach, First Strike and little bit of Ghost of Onyx.

Some things in Reach can be simply retconned, but others can't be retconned so simply, it would require to re-write novels.


Actually no I'm not. A lot of the "errors" are no longer errors because the Journal and the marketing materials for Reach have explained them, thus making them no longer errors.

You are overlooking the key detail of canon ranking, marketing materials make take a space below the books and games, but that's only if old marketing material conflicts with something new. New marketing material for a new game will take priority over information for an older game or book.


you are wrong because the journal didn't explain anything other than halsey that NOBLE team were ONI spartans and that cortana had a certain part of her copied to study the crystal.
o0o it also said that miranda was halseys daughter.

That is all the journal explained so i wish you would stop spreading the idea that it "fixed" everything because it didn't. If you actually had the journal and could read it you would know this but you don't so stop it.


I don't think I have ever said it fixed everything, I said it fixes a lot of the issues, and I mentioned the marketing materials as well. They fix much more together than separate.

  • 06.04.2011 3:27 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: raganok99
Sorry, but you're wrong.

Halsey's Journal and marketing material has fixed VERY little the errors of Halo Reach. And marketing material is rated as third, according to canon "rules". Game being first and novels being second in canon "rules". Market material does not override the canon.

There's some content in the game is canon-breaking such as wrong timeline, PoA being on ground which it is impossible due to massive weight and consider about laws of physics applied to it too. And Halycon-class cruisers or Marathon-Class cruisers or larger ships ARE NOT rated for atmosphere. You may argue that PoA went on Halo but it was not case. They were forced to land down since they suffered massive damage from fighting against battle-group of CCS battle-cruisers.

Spartan-IIIs were fine with me for now.

And it does "conflict" the novels of The Fall of Reach, First Strike and little bit of Ghost of Onyx.

Some things in Reach can be simply retconned, but others can't be retconned so simply, it would require to re-write novels.


Actually no I'm not. A lot of the "errors" are no longer errors because the Journal and the marketing materials for Reach have explained them, thus making them no longer errors.

You are overlooking the key detail of canon ranking, marketing materials make take a space below the books and games, but that's only if old marketing material conflicts with something new. New marketing material for a new game will take priority over information for an older game or book.


you are wrong because the journal didn't explain anything other than halsey that NOBLE team were ONI spartans and that cortana had a certain part of her copied to study the crystal.
o0o it also said that miranda was halseys daughter.

That is all the journal explained so i wish you would stop spreading the idea that it "fixed" everything because it didn't. If you actually had the journal and could read it you would know this but you don't so stop it.


I don't think I have ever said it fixed everything, I said it fixes a lot of the issues, and I mentioned the marketing materials as well. They fix much more together than separate.


Again, no. It did not fix most issues caused by the Halo Reach game. It only fixed very little in the game.

Marketing material will not override that canon because in rules of canon setting, marketing material is rated as third. It doesn't grant that marketing material to override it. Sorry, but no. You're wrong again.

  • 06.04.2011 3:46 PM PDT

I wish Bungie or 343i could just make something up about the PoA being in atmosphere so that we could rest easy

  • 06.04.2011 6:32 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: immadchill
I wish Bungie or 343i could just make something up about the PoA being in atmosphere so that we could rest easy

That's called a retcon. Something there'll have to be loads of if Reach were to be canon.

  • 06.04.2011 6:42 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: immadchill
I wish Bungie or 343i could just make something up about the PoA being in atmosphere so that we could rest easy

That's called a retcon. Something there'll have to be loads of if Reach were to be canon.


Reach is canon, and not a retcon. Like if they said that the PoA was outfitted with an anti-grav pod or something but other Halycon class cruisers couldnt venture into atmosphere

  • 06.04.2011 6:47 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And, you know, the Journal and letter and such are labeled as canon.

Most marketing is not.

Thing I love with this "PoA COULD NOT LAND, IT WOULD BE CRUSHED DUE TO IT'S SIZE AND WEIGHT!" argument is that it crashed on halo, and it's structural integrity was pretty solid and it wasn't in too bad of a condition.

Letter is canon? Fine.

Halo: Reach = ONI propogando in their perspective.

The Fall of Reach = God-perspective.


I don't think that was the letter that DaeFaron was talking about, I think he was talking about this one. I could be wrong though.

In any case the letter included with the Legendary Edition of Reach does not make it ONI propoganda, assuming such only makes you look foolish as there are several problems with that assumption which I have listed before and should have no need to list again.

  • 06.04.2011 7:25 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: immadchill

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: immadchill
I wish Bungie or 343i could just make something up about the PoA being in atmosphere so that we could rest easy

That's called a retcon. Something there'll have to be loads of if Reach were to be canon.


Reach is canon, and not a retcon. Like if they said that the PoA was outfitted with an anti-grav pod or something but other Halycon class cruisers couldnt venture into atmosphere

I don't think you understand.

  • 06.04.2011 8:20 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And, you know, the Journal and letter and such are labeled as canon.

Most marketing is not.

Thing I love with this "PoA COULD NOT LAND, IT WOULD BE CRUSHED DUE TO IT'S SIZE AND WEIGHT!" argument is that it crashed on halo, and it's structural integrity was pretty solid and it wasn't in too bad of a condition.

Letter is canon? Fine.

Halo: Reach = ONI propogando in their perspective.

The Fall of Reach = God-perspective.


I don't think that was the letter that DaeFaron was talking about, I think he was talking about this one. I could be wrong though.

In any case the letter included with the Legendary Edition of Reach does not make it ONI propoganda, assuming such only makes you look foolish as there are several problems with that assumption which I have listed before and should have no need to list again.

God-perspective > ONI-perspective.

  • 06.04.2011 8:21 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: immadchill

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: immadchill
I wish Bungie or 343i could just make something up about the PoA being in atmosphere so that we could rest easy

That's called a retcon. Something there'll have to be loads of if Reach were to be canon.


Reach is canon, and not a retcon. Like if they said that the PoA was outfitted with an anti-grav pod or something but other Halycon class cruisers couldnt venture into atmosphere

I don't think you understand.


Explain it to me then. A retcon is something that conflicts with something else previously stated and the older thing is no longer known as fact and the new one is, right?

Nothing was said about an anti-grav pod or special landing gear that was put on to it prior to it's visit to Reach's atmosphere so there is nothing to be no longer known as fact or be overwritten by something new.

  • 06.04.2011 8:56 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And, you know, the Journal and letter and such are labeled as canon.

Most marketing is not.

Thing I love with this "PoA COULD NOT LAND, IT WOULD BE CRUSHED DUE TO IT'S SIZE AND WEIGHT!" argument is that it crashed on halo, and it's structural integrity was pretty solid and it wasn't in too bad of a condition.

Letter is canon? Fine.

Halo: Reach = ONI propogando in their perspective.

The Fall of Reach = God-perspective.


I don't think that was the letter that DaeFaron was talking about, I think he was talking about this one. I could be wrong though.

In any case the letter included with the Legendary Edition of Reach does not make it ONI propoganda, assuming such only makes you look foolish as there are several problems with that assumption which I have listed before and should have no need to list again.

God-perspective > ONI-perspective.


Except the book isn't a full on god perspective either, it's limited to whichever character is being focused on at that particular time. And, I can't say exactly how long, but the new timelime has been around at least since ODST, this isn't something that was just changed with Halo: Reach. Don't believe me? Look at the Memorial Plaque in that ONI building on Dutch's second level. It lists the battle as lasting from July 25th-August 30th. Which is in keeping with the timeline set out in Reach.

[Edited on 06.04.2011 9:27 PM PDT]

  • 06.04.2011 9:14 PM PDT
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Don't know why it calls me rubuilt gymnast 7, it's really UNSC595 in case you were wondering and I have played all of those games online

Emile, Jun and Carter were pulled out of Alpha Company before Operation: Prometheus.

Reach (b)could(b) have been invaded by a small advance force on July 24th and the army-hiding spires could have been in use so nobody would know Covenant were on the ground. This also explains the neglect of the Cole Protocol in this situation.

Orbital MAC's are spread over the planet so it is possible they are not visible in the level. Or they were destroyed in the area around the Covenant carrier.

I can't explain the Pillar of Autumn error.

  • 06.04.2011 10:28 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

60% of the UNSC fleet was recalled to Reach to combat the Covenant on the 12th(or was it the 14th...always get confused on these two.)

Either way, the UNSC knew DAMN WELL the Covenant was invading Reach before the 30th. Which is a massive hole in the Halo canon.

  • 06.04.2011 10:35 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: privet caboose
60% of the UNSC fleet was recalled to Reach to combat the Covenant on the 12th(or was it the 14th...always get confused on these two.)

Either way, the UNSC knew DAMN WELL the Covenant was invading Reach before the 30th. Which is a massive hole in the Halo canon.

They knew that the Covvies didn't give up on invading planets. What was the UNSC thinking?

  • 06.05.2011 9:45 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And, you know, the Journal and letter and such are labeled as canon.

Most marketing is not.

Thing I love with this "PoA COULD NOT LAND, IT WOULD BE CRUSHED DUE TO IT'S SIZE AND WEIGHT!" argument is that it crashed on halo, and it's structural integrity was pretty solid and it wasn't in too bad of a condition.

Letter is canon? Fine.

Halo: Reach = ONI propogando in their perspective.

The Fall of Reach = God-perspective.


I don't think that was the letter that DaeFaron was talking about, I think he was talking about this one. I could be wrong though.

In any case the letter included with the Legendary Edition of Reach does not make it ONI propoganda, assuming such only makes you look foolish as there are several problems with that assumption which I have listed before and should have no need to list again.

God-perspective > ONI-perspective.


Except the book isn't a full on god perspective either, it's limited to whichever character is being focused on at that particular time. And, I can't say exactly how long, but the new timelime has been around at least since ODST, this isn't something that was just changed with Halo: Reach. Don't believe me? Look at the Memorial Plaque in that ONI building on Dutch's second level. It lists the battle as lasting from July 25th-August 30th. Which is in keeping with the timeline set out in Reach.

Reach and ODST were being developed at the same time.

  • 06.05.2011 9:46 AM PDT