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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Spartan II's got a single augment over the III's. A spinal and muscle growth enhancement implant. This explains the size difference between II's and III's since II's had more muscle mass than III's (this size difference can be up-to and including height). This also explains the difference in strength the II's have (seeing as the game's canonical explanation for shorter jump height is due them being lesser than II's).

This is also supported when Kelly basically chucks a III into a tree with little effort or resistance (Ghosts of Onyx, and we all know Kelly isn't the strongest of Spartans).

  • 06.10.2011 9:13 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Spartan II's got a single augment over the III's. A spinal and muscle growth enhancement implant. This explains the size difference between II's and III's since II's had more muscle mass than III's (this size difference can be up-to and including height). This also explains the difference in strength the II's have (seeing as the game's canonical explanation for shorter jump height is due them being lesser than II's).

This is also supported when Kelly basically chucks a III into a tree with little effort or resistance (Ghosts of Onyx, and we all know Kelly isn't the strongest of Spartans).


Like I've said, the human growth pellet was needed to fully reinforce their Carbide Ceramic Ossification, given the fact that it was only administered on their legs and arms and with that, the rest of the bones would strengthen.

Besides, said augmentation didn't affect their strength levels, it just made them develop more muscle mass. The augmentation that affected their strength was a series of Muscle Enhancing injections that exclusively targeted the muscle's intracellular molecular machinery to help strengthen them and make them more resistant.

  • 06.10.2011 9:21 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

The II's ARE stronger. The Thyroid implant confirms that. No arguing against it.

  • 06.10.2011 9:38 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

From what I understand it only affects their heights.

[Edited on 06.10.2011 9:44 PM PDT]

  • 06.10.2011 9:43 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
From what I understand it only affects their heights.

It granted muscle growth alongside another augmentation's muscle density enhancement. II's and III's have similar muscle density but the II's have more muscle in general, therefore they are stronger and in some cases taller.

  • 06.10.2011 9:53 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: RKOSNAKE
From what I understand it only affects their heights.

It granted muscle growth alongside another augmentation's muscle density enhancement. II's and III's have similar muscle density but the II's have more muscle in general, therefore they are stronger and in some cases taller.


Not much cases though, the average Spartan III is as tall as the average Spartan II (Jun is as tall as John, etc) The only real examples of II's being taller is with Jorge and Sam.

  • 06.10.2011 9:55 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Do you not understand the words "in some cases"?

  • 06.10.2011 9:57 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Do you not understand the words "in some cases"?


Yes, I was just saying that its not really usual though.

  • 06.10.2011 10:01 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Yes, I was just saying that its not really usual though.

*facepalm* and yes, the II's have a higher average height than III's. Jun is the tallest III with a recorded height.

[Edited on 06.10.2011 10:45 PM PDT]

  • 06.10.2011 10:43 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: RKOSNAKE
If I remember correctly, there's a plate in ODST that matches the dates of the Fall of Reach (event not book) with the ones in the game.


You remember correctly.


It's surprising not a lot of people caught the date stamp this prior to Halo Reach coming out, and questioning why the time period was stretched out like that then. I certainly didn't till now.


Weird right? I think I caught it a little later after ODST was released but really never questioned it, thinking it to be a mistake or something.

Sneaky Bungie is sneaky.

  • 06.11.2011 12:07 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Moirai
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Posted by: kit_103

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: RKOSNAKE
If I remember correctly, there's a plate in ODST that matches the dates of the Fall of Reach (event not book) with the ones in the game.


You remember correctly.


It's surprising not a lot of people caught the date stamp this prior to Halo Reach coming out, and questioning why the time period was stretched out like that then. I certainly didn't till now.


Weird right? I think I caught it a little later after ODST was released but really never questioned it, thinking it to be a mistake or something.

Sneaky Bungie is sneaky.


Where was that plaque in the game? Can't say I remember it, although I only played the ODST campaign once due to finding it less than interesting, and that was when it first came out. I must have passed it by somehow... :/

  • 06.11.2011 2:42 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Moirai

Posted by: kit_103

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: RKOSNAKE
If I remember correctly, there's a plate in ODST that matches the dates of the Fall of Reach (event not book) with the ones in the game.


You remember correctly.


It's surprising not a lot of people caught the date stamp this prior to Halo Reach coming out, and questioning why the time period was stretched out like that then. I certainly didn't till now.


Weird right? I think I caught it a little later after ODST was released but really never questioned it, thinking it to be a mistake or something.

Sneaky Bungie is sneaky.


Where was that plaque in the game? Can't say I remember it, although I only played the ODST campaign once due to finding it less than interesting, and that was when it first came out. I must have passed it by somehow... :/


It's inside the ONI facility's main lobby behind the elevator on the walls that face out towards where Phantoms would drop off troops

  • 06.11.2011 2:47 AM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: Moirai
Where was that plaque in the game? Can't say I remember it, although I only played the ODST campaign once due to finding it less than interesting, and that was when it first came out. I must have passed it by somehow... :/


ONI Alpha Site. It's also the same name as the Firefight map.

It's actually pretty hard to miss. Didn't know it was there until someone pointed it out.

EDIT: Damn you Slasher! XD --- But yeah, that's where it's at.

[Edited on 06.11.2011 2:56 AM PDT]

  • 06.11.2011 2:54 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Moirai
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Thanks to you both for the pointers. Much appreciated. :)

  • 06.11.2011 4:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
This is also supported when Kelly basically chucks a III into a tree with little effort or resistance ( Ghosts of Onyx, and we all know Kelly isn't the strongest of Spartans).


Haha, nice exaggeration there. We all know the S-III was in his/her adulthood fielded with MJOLNIR armor there.

[Edited on 06.11.2011 4:51 AM PDT]

  • 06.11.2011 4:44 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien


Posted by: manwith
Haha, nice exaggeration there. We all know the S-III was in his/her adulthood fielded with MJOLNIR armor there.

The augmentations accelerate puberty and physical development as well as enhance it. When the II's were augmented they looked 20 or so afterward. I'm sure that when the III's were augmented they probably look similarly aged (16-18). And the MJOLNIR... even with that on, a III of similar strength should be able to put up a fight. Without the armor the II's and III's are only different in size and strength. With armor, however, they are leagues apart (MJOLNIR vs SPI).

  • 06.11.2011 12:09 PM PDT

Error: The Covenant were on Reach's planetary surface.

How is it possible for the Covenant to have gotten to the planet's surface without detection from the UNSC? Reach should have the ability to detect slipspace ruptures, MAC platforms, and a fleet of defense ships protecting the planet.

Yet, somehow, the Covenant inexplicably avoided all of these things and got to the planet's surface to not only set up camp, but set up a dark zone large enough for a Super carrier to drop off more troops all without detection.

  • 06.11.2011 12:14 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: privet caboose
The II's ARE stronger. The Thyroid implant confirms that. No arguing against it.

This. The II's are stronger.

  • 06.11.2011 12:20 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Yes, I was just saying that its not really usual though.

*facepalm* and yes, the II's have a higher average height than III's. Jun is the tallest III with a recorded height.

Yeah. Jun isn't exactly "average".

  • 06.11.2011 12:28 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy
Why did the Covvies on the bridge just wander about when a Spartan and some marines/army rangers were clearly blasting their way in?


Either a severe lack of communication or Elite Shipmasters being far too confident that their bridge won't be breached in the event of boarding action. The same thing happens in Truth and Reconciliation back in Halo CE. Despite all the blasting the Chief and company are doing the entire bridge crew just continues on as if nothing happened by the time you walk in.

Yeah, that's right.

  • 06.11.2011 3:09 PM PDT

Why didn't the corvette hail, "long night of solace" before it got there

  • 06.11.2011 11:04 PM PDT


Posted by: immadchill
Why didn't the corvette hail, "long night of solace" before it got there


Jammed communications, then the comm center died.

  • 06.11.2011 11:14 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: immadchill
Why didn't the corvette hail, "long night of solace" before it got there


Jammed communications, then the comm center died.


And considering that the Corvette demolished the Savannah, the Super Carrier had no reason to believe based on direct line of sight that the Corvette was in any trouble considering that it destroyed the ship attacking it.

  • 06.11.2011 11:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Moirai
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: immadchill
Why didn't the corvette hail, "long night of solace" before it got there


Jammed communications, then the comm center died.


So Bungie are expecting us to believe that the UNSC has ECM so advanced and powerful that it has a larger range than the tactical sensors of a Covenant ship?

They've already lost one Corvette (and don't get me started on how the other Corvette even managed to get within spitting distance of something as important as ONI's Sword base without being detected and destroyed before hand), so I would be stunned if a Covie vessel in orbit, on a war footing, over an enemy planet, in a heightened state of tactical alert, would not have spotted the approaching UNSC frigate and light attack craft well outside the Savannah's ECM range and squawked a notification to the command carrier which was in direct line of sight. And where were its shields...?

I would have found the apparent putting the comms 'relay' out of action far more believable if Bungie had had us do something more than just kill a bunch of Covies. How does that stop the equipment from functioning? This isn't an early 20th Century steam ship where messages have to sent to the telegraph room for transmission by an operator. Besides, they could have easily had us place shaped charges at various locations around this comms relay and blow the thing, or at least shoot out or chuck nades at something. That would have be at least believable in the circumstances, given the mission.

This whole section has simply been dumbed right down for the sake of gameplay. Unless we're expected to believe that although the Covies are so tactically brilliant that they can sneak a supercarrier and corvette through the defences of the UNSC's second most well defended world and down to its surface undetected, and yet are suddenly so dumb and arrogant to not only allow a UNSC frigate and sabres to come within ECM range of one of it's ships and attack it, but then to totally ignore the whole exchange as if it is of no import and allow that very same ship to approach the command vessel on an unscheduled refuelling run... -_-


[Edited on 06.12.2011 6:00 AM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 5:22 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Moirai
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Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: immadchill
Why didn't the corvette hail, "long night of solace" before it got there


Jammed communications, then the comm center died.


And considering that the Corvette demolished the Savannah, the Super Carrier had no reason to believe based on direct line of sight that the Corvette was in any trouble considering that it destroyed the ship attacking it.


Of course. Why would they have any reason to believe it was in any trouble? It was only approaching the command vessel on an unscheduled refuelling run, with enemy craft on top of it, its main engines shot out and not responding to any hails.

Any competent commander of a flagship would have contacted the corvette's captain after the exchange to get a report on the recent action. Especially since it should have been clear from their own sensors that the corvette was badly damaged.

  • 06.12.2011 5:41 AM PDT