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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
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Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: Monkeyboy1993
Can't we just admit that the canon is just a little screwy?


The only thing Bungie changed is the length of the battle and the fact that the pillar of autumn landed on reach after picking up the master chief....everything else can be explained and combined neatly with the already established canon. Some people just don't want to see that.

Not true. Halopedia just doesn't list the inconsistencies. They conveniently snip everything they don't like in order to make it look nice.


I'm not going off of Halopedia, I don't blindly follow it I actually read the real books n play the actual games, I use it as a reference for minor things like DOB's and game dialogue n pics...its a reference..and i am right, youre just one of the people who do not want to believe it.

[Edited on 10.13.2010 11:45 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2010 11:44 PM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666
Evidence to support my guess is common sense...there's no fleet on this side so obviously its on the other side.

Doesn't mean it's correct. You could cross-reference the locations, but I'm sure that's below someone of your stature. Common sense is all the evidence you need.

Carter is still 11.

So?


I'm sorry I thought you would realise that when i say surface i didnt mean it was freaking parked.

I thought you would understand the difference between "in orbit" or "atmosphere" compared to "the surface". I was wrong.


Auntie Dot: "Latest intel suggests these spires may be projecting electro-magnetic cloaking shields."

thats how the supercarrier was cloaked.

That doesn't explain how it got in system or into range of the cloaking towers. Especially since the Supercarrier was the only thing with the carrying capacity to transport the materials to create those towers.


Auntie Dot: "Noble Five, ONI believes those spires to be teleportation terminals."

Thats how most of the ships got to the surface, especially the Supercarrier. Obviously it requires a remote destination and spires to be built to work thats why it wasn't used a lot and why you havent heard about it before.

Who transports the materials to Reach other than the Supercarrier? And you're using handwavium and saying "Well it only worked this time!" It's bull-blam!- reasoning.

any other typos i have that give you reason to say I'm wrong when all the facts point to my logic?

You have no facts, your only evidence is speculation.

  • 10.13.2010 11:45 PM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: Monkeyboy1993
Can't we just admit that the canon is just a little screwy?


The only thing Bungie changed is the length of the battle and the fact that the pillar of autumn landed on reach after picking up the master chief....everything else can be explained and combined neatly with the already established canon. Some people just don't want to see that.

Not true. Halopedia just doesn't list the inconsistencies. They conveniently snip everything they don't like in order to make it look nice.


I'm not going off of Halopedia, I don't blindly follow it I actually read the real books n play the actual games, I use it as a reference for minor things like DOB's and game dialogue n pics...its a reference..and i am right, youre just one of the people who do not want to believe it.

How does John's training test with Ackerson fit in?
Halsey's meeting with the Spartans?
Red Team's arrival at the ODGs?

etc.

If you actually looked at the material, you'd see that it all doesn't magically line up.

  • 10.13.2010 11:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666
Evidence to support my guess is common sense...there's no fleet on this side so obviously its on the other side.

Doesn't mean it's correct. You could cross-reference the locations, but I'm sure that's below someone of your stature. Common sense is all the evidence you need.

Carter is still 11.

So?


I'm sorry I thought you would realise that when i say surface i didnt mean it was freaking parked.

I thought you would understand the difference between "in orbit" or "atmosphere" compared to "the surface". I was wrong.


Auntie Dot: "Latest intel suggests these spires may be projecting electro-magnetic cloaking shields."

thats how the supercarrier was cloaked.

That doesn't explain how it got in system or into range of the cloaking towers. Especially since the Supercarrier was the only thing with the carrying capacity to transport the materials to create those towers.


Auntie Dot: "Noble Five, ONI believes those spires to be teleportation terminals."

Thats how most of the ships got to the surface, especially the Supercarrier. Obviously it requires a remote destination and spires to be built to work thats why it wasn't used a lot and why you havent heard about it before.

Who transports the materials to Reach other than the Supercarrier? And you're using handwavium and saying "Well it only worked this time!" It's bull-blam!- reasoning.

any other typos i have that give you reason to say I'm wrong when all the facts point to my logic?

You have no facts, your only evidence is speculation.



I NEVER SAID IT WAS CORRECT I SAID IT WAS MY GUESS...stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm used to saying the surface...i meant in atmosphere I was right so drop it.

The supercarrier teleported in. Corvettes or other small ships slipped through the MAC guns, and put he spires up.

I didn't say it only works that time it could work anytime if they can get on the surface in sufficient amounts and a secluded area to put up the spires.

my reasoning is sound I have given you many facts which you either disregard or completely ignore....Auntie Dots quotes are in game proof, the fact that the supercarrier wasn't seen untill the spire was destroyed is proof......Its not speculation it IS fact.

  • 10.13.2010 11:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: Monkeyboy1993
Can't we just admit that the canon is just a little screwy?


The only thing Bungie changed is the length of the battle and the fact that the pillar of autumn landed on reach after picking up the master chief....everything else can be explained and combined neatly with the already established canon. Some people just don't want to see that.

Not true. Halopedia just doesn't list the inconsistencies. They conveniently snip everything they don't like in order to make it look nice.


I'm not going off of Halopedia, I don't blindly follow it I actually read the real books n play the actual games, I use it as a reference for minor things like DOB's and game dialogue n pics...its a reference..and i am right, youre just one of the people who do not want to believe it.

How does John's training test with Ackerson fit in?
Halsey's meeting with the Spartans?
Red Team's arrival at the ODGs?

etc.

If you actually looked at the material, you'd see that it all doesn't magically line up.


Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.

  • 10.13.2010 11:55 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666
Evidence to support my guess is common sense...there's no fleet on this side so obviously its on the other side.

Doesn't mean it's correct. You could cross-reference the locations, but I'm sure that's below someone of your stature. Common sense is all the evidence you need.

Carter is still 11.

So?


I'm sorry I thought you would realise that when i say surface i didnt mean it was freaking parked.

I thought you would understand the difference between "in orbit" or "atmosphere" compared to "the surface". I was wrong.


Auntie Dot: "Latest intel suggests these spires may be projecting electro-magnetic cloaking shields."

thats how the supercarrier was cloaked.

That doesn't explain how it got in system or into range of the cloaking towers. Especially since the Supercarrier was the only thing with the carrying capacity to transport the materials to create those towers.


Auntie Dot: "Noble Five, ONI believes those spires to be teleportation terminals."

Thats how most of the ships got to the surface, especially the Supercarrier. Obviously it requires a remote destination and spires to be built to work thats why it wasn't used a lot and why you havent heard about it before.

Who transports the materials to Reach other than the Supercarrier? And you're using handwavium and saying "Well it only worked this time!" It's bull-blam!- reasoning.

any other typos i have that give you reason to say I'm wrong when all the facts point to my logic?

You have no facts, your only evidence is speculation.



I NEVER SAID IT WAS CORRECT I SAID IT WAS MY GUESS...stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm used to saying the surface...i meant in atmosphere I was right so drop it.

The supercarrier teleported in. Corvettes or other small ships slipped through the MAC guns, and put he spires up.

I didn't say it only works that time it could work anytime if they can get on the surface in sufficient amounts and a secluded area to put up the spires.

my reasoning is sound I have given you many facts which you either disregard or completely ignore....Auntie Dots quotes are in game proof, the fact that the supercarrier wasn't seen untill the spire was destroyed is proof......Its not speculation it IS fact.


Sound reasoning does not equate to facts. Sound reasoning merely makes an argument strong, and just because an argument is strong does not mean it is based off of facts.

At this time there are zero facts right now supporting what came first. The Corvettes or the Super Carrier. Both sides can make a sound theory, but just because it sounds more likely doesn't make it a fact. There are quotes from Dot yes, but keep in mind that she was in the dark as well and making educated guesses along the way as more intel was uncovered.

The super carrier not being seen until the spire was destroyed is a fact, but has no relevance to it being a fact that supports whether or not it was there first undetected or something else.

  • 10.14.2010 12:03 AM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666

I NEVER SAID IT WAS CORRECT I SAID IT WAS MY GUESS...stop putting words in my mouth.

Why would you argue it if you believe yourself to be wrong? You obviously think this is the correct answer, even if you aren't outright saying it.


I'm used to saying the surface...i meant in atmosphere I was right so drop it.

You haven't really been right about a whole lot lately, let alone proper use of language.


The supercarrier teleported in. Corvettes or other small ships slipped through the MAC guns, and put he spires up.

Covenant don't have teleportation technology that can teleport a 27 km long ship through lightyears of space. Show me where it says Corvettes would have the cargo capacity to carry the materials, and show me how they make it past the outposts undetected.


I didn't say it only works that time it could work anytime if they can get on the surface in sufficient amounts and a secluded area to put up the spires.

Why didn't they do that for every fight they had gotten the drop on us then? Almost every outer colony was sparsely populated.


my reasoning is sound I have given you many facts which you either disregard or completely ignore....Auntie Dots quotes are in game proof, the fact that the supercarrier wasn't seen untill the spire was destroyed is proof......Its not speculation it IS fact.

Your opinion is not "fact". Auntie Dot's quotes prove nothing. I never said the spire doesn't cloak, I think you're very ignorant of what I'm saying.

  • 10.14.2010 12:06 AM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666


Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.

Tell me how it fits into the storyline, you said that everything can fit neatly into the expanded timeline, so show me how those fit in to the current timeline Bungie has created.

  • 10.14.2010 12:07 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: KillerDie666

Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.



You haven't read Halsey's Journal have you?

Sword Base happens July 26.

Sword Base is assaulted with Halsey and most of the staff presumed dead on August 14 (Long Night of Solace). Operation Red Flag's briefing takes place on the 27th of August at a location that is likely not Sword Base seeing as it is occupied by the Covenant at this point for on August 26th Noble Team is assigned the demo op of Sword Base and Jun makes his comment of how Covenant "own [Sword Base] now".

No known Spartan IIs (other than Jorge) were killed by the time this briefing occurred. The planet's orbital defense has been long since compromised at this point. While it's likely that Red team died/fled to Castle Base defending the Autumn from ground forces (read up on my theory earlier in this thread) there is zero factual evidence to indicate exactly what they were doing at this time.

29th is when John's exercise with Cortana takes place. Guess what? It's also the same day Noble Team pays Halsey a visit in Sword Base. Not to mention given the current state of Reach it is incredulous to believe that Ackerson (as much of an ass he is) would waste valuable military resources in an attempt to upstage Halsey's Spartans.

So yes, there are several contradictions that have spawned out of mere common logic. There is no common logic presented however to actually make sense with how these events go along smoothly with Halo:Reach.

[Edited on 10.14.2010 12:14 AM PDT]

  • 10.14.2010 12:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

I NEVER SAID IT WAS CORRECT I SAID IT WAS MY GUESS...stop putting words in my mouth.

Why would you argue it if you believe yourself to be wrong? You obviously think this is the correct answer, even if you aren't outright saying it.


I'm used to saying the surface...i meant in atmosphere I was right so drop it.

You haven't really been right about a whole lot lately, let alone proper use of language.


The supercarrier teleported in. Corvettes or other small ships slipped through the MAC guns, and put he spires up.

Covenant don't have teleportation technology that can teleport a 27 km long ship through lightyears of space. Show me where it says Corvettes would have the cargo capacity to carry the materials, and show me how they make it past the outposts undetected.


I didn't say it only works that time it could work anytime if they can get on the surface in sufficient amounts and a secluded area to put up the spires.

Why didn't they do that for every fight they had gotten the drop on us then? Almost every outer colony was sparsely populated.


my reasoning is sound I have given you many facts which you either disregard or completely ignore....Auntie Dots quotes are in game proof, the fact that the supercarrier wasn't seen untill the spire was destroyed is proof......Its not speculation it IS fact.

Your opinion is not "fact". Auntie Dot's quotes prove nothing. I never said the spire doesn't cloak, I think you're very ignorant of what I'm saying.


it is my guess, that is all yes i believe it is correct but you can't prove its wrong so drop it.

Saying I haven't been properly using language has nothing to do with this argument to bring it up is unecessary, you knew what I meant so why did you have to make it difficult?

There's no way you can know what kind of teleportation technology to teleport a supercarrier....Show me the proof that says corvettes don't have the cargo space to hold spires, show me the proof that a supercarrier does...Multiple corvettes could have brought in the necessary materiel, or a single corvette with many trips.

Reach was a military stronghold, they needed all the advantages they could get, it would be completely unnecessary for them to do it on a sparsely populated world when they could just conquer it from orbit.

  • 10.14.2010 12:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.



You haven't read Halsey's Journal have you?

Sword Base happens July 26.

Sword Base is assaulted with Halsey and most of the staff presumed dead on August 14 (Long Night of Solace). Operation Red Flag's briefing takes place on the 27th of August at a location that is likely not Sword Base seeing as it is occupied by the Covenant at this point for on August 26th Noble Team is assigned the demo op of Sword Base and Jun makes his comment of how Covenant "own [Sword Base] now".

No known Spartan IIs (other than Jorge) were killed by the time this briefing occurred. The planet's orbital defense has been long since compromised at this point. While it's likely that Red team died/fled to Castle Base defending the Autumn from ground forces (read up on my theory earlier in this thread) there is zero factual evidence to indicate exactly what they were doing at this time.

29th is when John's exercise with Cortana takes place. Guess what? It's also the same day Noble Team pays Halsey a visit in Sword Base. Not to mention given the current state of Reach it is incredulous to believe that Ackerson (as much of an ass he is) would waste valuable military resources in an attempt to upstage Halsey's Spartans.

So yes, there are several contradictions that have spawned out of mere common logic. There is no common logic presented however to actually make sense with how these events go along smoothly with Halo:Reach.


They changed the timeline...I said this, so they changed dates of events as well..it can all be made to fit in....as for the autumn whos to say it wasn't in space like in the fall of reach and then it dropped off red team and the chief n linda...then picked up the chief linda and johnson and landed on the planet to get the fragment and then left? IT ALL CAN FIT. Eveyone just wants to make it difficult when it is simple.

[Edited on 10.14.2010 12:22 AM PDT]

  • 10.14.2010 12:21 AM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666
it is my guess, that is all yes i believe it is correct but you can't prove its wrong so drop it.

Actually, I have been proving it wrong. You've simply been plugging your ears and saying "la la la".


Saying I haven't been properly using language has nothing to do with this argument to bring it up is unecessary, you knew what I meant so why did you have to make it difficult?

Because it was still flawed and incorrect. I also wanted to have some fun and mess with you until you realized you had been using a vastly incorrect term the entire time.


There's no way you can know what kind of teleportation technology to teleport a supercarrier....Show me the proof that says corvettes don't have the cargo space to hold spires, show me the proof that a supercarrier does...Multiple corvettes could have brought in the necessary materiel, or a single corvette with many trips.

There's no way you can know that the covenant have the technology to teleport a supercarrier....Show me the proof that says corvettes have the cargo space to hold spires, show me the proof that a supercarrier does...Multiple corvettes couldn't have brought in the necessary materiel, or a single corvette with many trips.

See how well that argument works?

Corvettes are about 1,000 feet long, given the troops and supplies they would've brought, they wouldn't have had the cargo space to construct that many spires.

There is no proof of existence of Covenant teleportation technology even close to the scale required for the Supercarrier. Since this would be the first and only instance of it ever being used, and since there is no evidence to suggest that is what occurred, it can be assumed that it does not exist. You're the one making stuff up to defend your idea, why do I have to disprove it? Aren't you supposed to be defending your idea and giving evidence of its existence instead of playing "nanny nanny boo boo" in the corner? Your entire argument and defense consists of: I'm right, you're wrong. You have to prove everything to me otherwise you're wrong. I'm right because I said so.


Reach was a military stronghold, they needed all the advantages they could get, it would be completely unnecessary for them to do it on a sparsely populated world when they could just conquer it from orbit.

It was also completely unnecessary on Reach. The fact is, you're making up -blam!- and not bothering to provide any evidence for it.

  • 10.14.2010 12:24 AM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.



You haven't read Halsey's Journal have you?

Sword Base happens July 26.

Sword Base is assaulted with Halsey and most of the staff presumed dead on August 14 (Long Night of Solace). Operation Red Flag's briefing takes place on the 27th of August at a location that is likely not Sword Base seeing as it is occupied by the Covenant at this point for on August 26th Noble Team is assigned the demo op of Sword Base and Jun makes his comment of how Covenant "own [Sword Base] now".

No known Spartan IIs (other than Jorge) were killed by the time this briefing occurred. The planet's orbital defense has been long since compromised at this point. While it's likely that Red team died/fled to Castle Base defending the Autumn from ground forces (read up on my theory earlier in this thread) there is zero factual evidence to indicate exactly what they were doing at this time.

29th is when John's exercise with Cortana takes place. Guess what? It's also the same day Noble Team pays Halsey a visit in Sword Base. Not to mention given the current state of Reach it is incredulous to believe that Ackerson (as much of an ass he is) would waste valuable military resources in an attempt to upstage Halsey's Spartans.

So yes, there are several contradictions that have spawned out of mere common logic. There is no common logic presented however to actually make sense with how these events go along smoothly with Halo:Reach.


They changed the timeline...I said this, so they changed dates of events as well..it can all be made to fit in....as for the autumn whos to say it wasn't in space like in the fall of reach and then it dropped off red team and the chief n linda...then picked up the chief linda and johnson and landed on the planet to get the fragment and then left? IT ALL CAN FIT. Eveyone just wants to make it difficult when it is simple.

Then show me the timeline that says "This all fits in here and there".

None of what you just said has anything to do with the examples given.

  • 10.14.2010 12:25 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.



You haven't read Halsey's Journal have you?

Sword Base happens July 26.

Sword Base is assaulted with Halsey and most of the staff presumed dead on August 14 (Long Night of Solace). Operation Red Flag's briefing takes place on the 27th of August at a location that is likely not Sword Base seeing as it is occupied by the Covenant at this point for on August 26th Noble Team is assigned the demo op of Sword Base and Jun makes his comment of how Covenant "own [Sword Base] now".

No known Spartan IIs (other than Jorge) were killed by the time this briefing occurred. The planet's orbital defense has been long since compromised at this point. While it's likely that Red team died/fled to Castle Base defending the Autumn from ground forces (read up on my theory earlier in this thread) there is zero factual evidence to indicate exactly what they were doing at this time.

29th is when John's exercise with Cortana takes place. Guess what? It's also the same day Noble Team pays Halsey a visit in Sword Base. Not to mention given the current state of Reach it is incredulous to believe that Ackerson (as much of an ass he is) would waste valuable military resources in an attempt to upstage Halsey's Spartans.

So yes, there are several contradictions that have spawned out of mere common logic. There is no common logic presented however to actually make sense with how these events go along smoothly with Halo:Reach.


They changed the timeline...I said this, so they changed dates of events as well..it can all be made to fit in....as for the autumn whos to say it wasn't in space like in the fall of reach and then it dropped off red team and the chief n linda...then picked up the chief linda and johnson and landed on the planet to get the fragment and then left? IT ALL CAN FIT. Eveyone just wants to make it difficult when it is simple.


...Did you not read a single word I said? The fact dates have been changed is of incredible significance.

August 27th. ALL Spartan IIs (this includes Red Team, Linda, Chief, every Spartan in the original novel that was included in the briefing then) were present and accounted for planetside for a briefing with Halsey along with Captain Keyes. John is still undergoing his exercises on the 29th with Cortana. The Autumn is still on the ground waiting to take off on the 30th.

So please. With your sound reasoning why don't you care to explain how the Autumn can be in space, drop off red team on the planet, pick up chief, johnson, and linda in space, land on the planet and dock itself and run a shakedown run with Cortana while picking up the other Cortana fragment over the course of a single day? Please go right ahead.

The Chief and in effect the Autumn don't receive the full version of Cortana until the 29th so go and explain how all these events fit in a single day when it already is iffy in a four day span.

  • 10.14.2010 12:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666
it is my guess, that is all yes i believe it is correct but you can't prove its wrong so drop it.

Actually, I have been proving it wrong. You've simply been plugging your ears and saying "la la la".


Saying I haven't been properly using language has nothing to do with this argument to bring it up is unecessary, you knew what I meant so why did you have to make it difficult?

Because it was still flawed and incorrect. I also wanted to have some fun and mess with you until you realized you had been using a vastly incorrect term the entire time.


There's no way you can know what kind of teleportation technology to teleport a supercarrier....Show me the proof that says corvettes don't have the cargo space to hold spires, show me the proof that a supercarrier does...Multiple corvettes could have brought in the necessary materiel, or a single corvette with many trips.

There's no way you can know that the covenant have the technology to teleport a supercarrier....Show me the proof that says corvettes have the cargo space to hold spires, show me the proof that a supercarrier does...Multiple corvettes couldn't have brought in the necessary materiel, or a single corvette with many trips.

See how well that argument works?

Corvettes are about 1,000 feet long, given the troops and supplies they would've brought, they wouldn't have had the cargo space to construct that many spires.

There is no proof of existence of Covenant teleportation technology even close to the scale required for the Supercarrier. Since this would be the first and only instance of it ever being used, and since there is no evidence to suggest that is what occurred, it can be assumed that it does not exist. You're the one making stuff up to defend your idea, why do I have to disprove it? Aren't you supposed to be defending your idea and giving evidence of its existence instead of playing "nanny nanny boo boo" in the corner? Your entire argument and defense consists of: I'm right, you're wrong. You have to prove everything to me otherwise you're wrong. I'm right because I said so.


Reach was a military stronghold, they needed all the advantages they could get, it would be completely unnecessary for them to do it on a sparsely populated world when they could just conquer it from orbit.

It was also completely unnecessary on Reach. The fact is, you're making up -blam!- and not bothering to provide any evidence for it.


Well prove me wrong on that one more time so i get all of your reasoning.

Continually frustrating me and not correcting me is a childish act.

The fact is you have absolutely no facts or proof that says the spires can't teleport the supercarrier or frigates, or that corvettes can't carry the material to build spires. I at least have Autie Dots intel which seems to indicate I am right. So untill you have something to back up your argument you can drop that too.

And it is not completely unnecessary on Reach, Reach is the Strongest Human stroghold the covenant needed all the advantages they could get. Inserting ground troops and ships to attack the ODP's by suprise seems like a necessary thing to me.

  • 10.14.2010 12:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.



You haven't read Halsey's Journal have you?

Sword Base happens July 26.

Sword Base is assaulted with Halsey and most of the staff presumed dead on August 14 (Long Night of Solace). Operation Red Flag's briefing takes place on the 27th of August at a location that is likely not Sword Base seeing as it is occupied by the Covenant at this point for on August 26th Noble Team is assigned the demo op of Sword Base and Jun makes his comment of how Covenant "own [Sword Base] now".

No known Spartan IIs (other than Jorge) were killed by the time this briefing occurred. The planet's orbital defense has been long since compromised at this point. While it's likely that Red team died/fled to Castle Base defending the Autumn from ground forces (read up on my theory earlier in this thread) there is zero factual evidence to indicate exactly what they were doing at this time.

29th is when John's exercise with Cortana takes place. Guess what? It's also the same day Noble Team pays Halsey a visit in Sword Base. Not to mention given the current state of Reach it is incredulous to believe that Ackerson (as much of an ass he is) would waste valuable military resources in an attempt to upstage Halsey's Spartans.

So yes, there are several contradictions that have spawned out of mere common logic. There is no common logic presented however to actually make sense with how these events go along smoothly with Halo:Reach.


They changed the timeline...I said this, so they changed dates of events as well..it can all be made to fit in....as for the autumn whos to say it wasn't in space like in the fall of reach and then it dropped off red team and the chief n linda...then picked up the chief linda and johnson and landed on the planet to get the fragment and then left? IT ALL CAN FIT. Eveyone just wants to make it difficult when it is simple.


...Did you not read a single word I said? The fact dates have been changed is of incredible significance.

August 27th. ALL Spartan IIs (this includes Red Team, Linda, Chief, every Spartan in the original novel that was included in the briefing then) were present and accounted for planetside for a briefing with Halsey along with Captain Keyes. John is still undergoing his exercises on the 29th with Cortana. The Autumn is still on the ground waiting to take off on the 30th.

So please. With your sound reasoning why don't you care to explain how the Autumn can be in space, drop off red team on the planet, pick up chief, johnson, and linda in space, land on the planet and dock itself and run a shakedown run with Cortana while picking up the other Cortana fragment over the course of a single day? Please go right ahead.

The Chief and in effect the Autumn don't receive the full version of Cortana until the 29th so go and explain how all these events fit in a single day when it already is iffy in a four day span.


THEY CHANGED THE DATESSSSSS......THE FALL OF REACH DATES DON'T COUNT ANYMORE, is that clear enough, they changed the timeline not everything has a set date anymore, but it can all be fit in.

The Autumn was in space, it went to leave, Reach was attacked by a major covenant fleet, it went back it dropped off red team and the chief and linda, then it picked up linda and the chief and landed on reach to pick up the cortana fragment....then it left reach to go to Halo. that is it, it all fits.

[Edited on 10.14.2010 12:37 AM PDT]

  • 10.14.2010 12:35 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.



You haven't read Halsey's Journal have you?

Sword Base happens July 26.

Sword Base is assaulted with Halsey and most of the staff presumed dead on August 14 (Long Night of Solace). Operation Red Flag's briefing takes place on the 27th of August at a location that is likely not Sword Base seeing as it is occupied by the Covenant at this point for on August 26th Noble Team is assigned the demo op of Sword Base and Jun makes his comment of how Covenant "own [Sword Base] now".

No known Spartan IIs (other than Jorge) were killed by the time this briefing occurred. The planet's orbital defense has been long since compromised at this point. While it's likely that Red team died/fled to Castle Base defending the Autumn from ground forces (read up on my theory earlier in this thread) there is zero factual evidence to indicate exactly what they were doing at this time.

29th is when John's exercise with Cortana takes place. Guess what? It's also the same day Noble Team pays Halsey a visit in Sword Base. Not to mention given the current state of Reach it is incredulous to believe that Ackerson (as much of an ass he is) would waste valuable military resources in an attempt to upstage Halsey's Spartans.

So yes, there are several contradictions that have spawned out of mere common logic. There is no common logic presented however to actually make sense with how these events go along smoothly with Halo:Reach.


They changed the timeline...I said this, so they changed dates of events as well..it can all be made to fit in....as for the autumn whos to say it wasn't in space like in the fall of reach and then it dropped off red team and the chief n linda...then picked up the chief linda and johnson and landed on the planet to get the fragment and then left? IT ALL CAN FIT. Eveyone just wants to make it difficult when it is simple.


...Did you not read a single word I said? The fact dates have been changed is of incredible significance.

August 27th. ALL Spartan IIs (this includes Red Team, Linda, Chief, every Spartan in the original novel that was included in the briefing then) were present and accounted for planetside for a briefing with Halsey along with Captain Keyes. John is still undergoing his exercises on the 29th with Cortana. The Autumn is still on the ground waiting to take off on the 30th.

So please. With your sound reasoning why don't you care to explain how the Autumn can be in space, drop off red team on the planet, pick up chief, johnson, and linda in space, land on the planet and dock itself and run a shakedown run with Cortana while picking up the other Cortana fragment over the course of a single day? Please go right ahead.

The Chief and in effect the Autumn don't receive the full version of Cortana until the 29th so go and explain how all these events fit in a single day when it already is iffy in a four day span.


THEY CHANGED THE DATESSSSSS......THE FALL OF REACH DATES DON'T COUNT ANYMORE, is that clear enough, they changed the timeline not everything has a set date anymore, but it can all be fit in.

The Autumn was in space, it went to leave, Reach was attacked by a major covenant fleet, it went back it dropped off red team and the chief and linda, then it picked up linda and the chief and landed on reach to pick up the cortana fragment....then it left reach to go to Halo. that is it, it all fit.


You also didn't read the little excerpt at the back of the reissued Fall of Reach either it seems. The Autumn never left dry dock to engage in battle. It was still engaged in finishing up its refit during the month long battle.

  • 10.14.2010 12:37 AM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666
Well prove me wrong on that one more time so i get all of your reasoning.

You can read back a page or two, the posts aren't going anywhere

Continually frustrating me and not correcting me is a childish act.

So is your methodology of debate:
"I'm right, you're wrong. You're wrong unless you can provide evidence and disprove everything I make up off the top of my head. I'm right because I said so."


The fact is you have absolutely no facts or proof that says the spires can't teleport the supercarrier or frigates, or that corvettes can't carry the material to build spires. I at least have Autie Dots intel which seems to indicate I am right. So untill you have something to back up your argument you can drop that too.

The fact is you have absolutely no facts or proof that says the spires can teleport the supercarrier or frigates, or that corvettes can carry the material to build spires. I at least have Auntie Dots intel which seems to indicate I am right. So untill you have something to back up your argument you can drop that too.

See how well that works?

I'd love to do the math for you, but it should be common sense(something you are an advocate of) that the Corvettes are unable to carry that much material. It also doesn't explain how they manage to secretly construct such spires or sneak into the system in the first place.

All Auntie Dot says is that they act as teleporters, which, as I've said, are probably to transport supplies since there are zero grav lifts present.

Note: After I satire your method of debate, I still provide reasoning for my arguments while you sit behind your iron curtain of "nuh uh".


And it is not completely unnecessary on Reach, Reach is the Strongest Human stroghold the covenant needed all the advantages they could get. Inserting ground troops and ships to attack the ODP's by suprise seems like a necessary thing to me.

Except the Supercarrier didn't attack the ODPs, so your point is moot.

  • 10.14.2010 12:39 AM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Why can't his training excersise fit in??...nothing contradicts it.

Halsey could have met with the spartans before or after the ONI Sword base level.

Again nothing says that Red team couldn't have dropped to the planet.

Nothing contradicts its so it all lines up.



You haven't read Halsey's Journal have you?

Sword Base happens July 26.

Sword Base is assaulted with Halsey and most of the staff presumed dead on August 14 (Long Night of Solace). Operation Red Flag's briefing takes place on the 27th of August at a location that is likely not Sword Base seeing as it is occupied by the Covenant at this point for on August 26th Noble Team is assigned the demo op of Sword Base and Jun makes his comment of how Covenant "own [Sword Base] now".

No known Spartan IIs (other than Jorge) were killed by the time this briefing occurred. The planet's orbital defense has been long since compromised at this point. While it's likely that Red team died/fled to Castle Base defending the Autumn from ground forces (read up on my theory earlier in this thread) there is zero factual evidence to indicate exactly what they were doing at this time.

29th is when John's exercise with Cortana takes place. Guess what? It's also the same day Noble Team pays Halsey a visit in Sword Base. Not to mention given the current state of Reach it is incredulous to believe that Ackerson (as much of an ass he is) would waste valuable military resources in an attempt to upstage Halsey's Spartans.

So yes, there are several contradictions that have spawned out of mere common logic. There is no common logic presented however to actually make sense with how these events go along smoothly with Halo:Reach.


They changed the timeline...I said this, so they changed dates of events as well..it can all be made to fit in....as for the autumn whos to say it wasn't in space like in the fall of reach and then it dropped off red team and the chief n linda...then picked up the chief linda and johnson and landed on the planet to get the fragment and then left? IT ALL CAN FIT. Eveyone just wants to make it difficult when it is simple.


...Did you not read a single word I said? The fact dates have been changed is of incredible significance.

August 27th. ALL Spartan IIs (this includes Red Team, Linda, Chief, every Spartan in the original novel that was included in the briefing then) were present and accounted for planetside for a briefing with Halsey along with Captain Keyes. John is still undergoing his exercises on the 29th with Cortana. The Autumn is still on the ground waiting to take off on the 30th.

So please. With your sound reasoning why don't you care to explain how the Autumn can be in space, drop off red team on the planet, pick up chief, johnson, and linda in space, land on the planet and dock itself and run a shakedown run with Cortana while picking up the other Cortana fragment over the course of a single day? Please go right ahead.

The Chief and in effect the Autumn don't receive the full version of Cortana until the 29th so go and explain how all these events fit in a single day when it already is iffy in a four day span.


THEY CHANGED THE DATESSSSSS......THE FALL OF REACH DATES DON'T COUNT ANYMORE, is that clear enough, they changed the timeline not everything has a set date anymore, but it can all be fit in.

The Autumn was in space, it went to leave, Reach was attacked by a major covenant fleet, it went back it dropped off red team and the chief and linda, then it picked up linda and the chief and landed on reach to pick up the cortana fragment....then it left reach to go to Halo. that is it, it all fits.

Then show me the new timeline that says it fits in. I certainly don't see it anywhere.

Here, let me give you 24 hours worth of time:
-I want you to drive from Los Angeles, California all the way to the state line of Utah.
-Then I want you to go snowboarding for the day
-Now, I want you to go eat dinner for a few hours at a nice restaurant
-Now, you drive home to Los Angeles, but you need to stop in Redlands, California to go see the Redwood National Forest for 2 and a half hours
-Then, you make it home to Los Angeles

Trust me, you can totally do it in 24 hours. I said so.


See the analogy?

  • 10.14.2010 12:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

You haven't read Halsey's Journal have you?

Sword Base happens July 26.

Sword Base is assaulted with Halsey and most of the staff presumed dead on August 14 (Long Night of Solace). Operation Red Flag's briefing takes place on the 27th of August at a location that is likely not Sword Base seeing as it is occupied by the Covenant at this point for on August 26th Noble Team is assigned the demo op of Sword Base and Jun makes his comment of how Covenant "own [Sword Base] now".

No known Spartan IIs (other than Jorge) were killed by the time this briefing occurred. The planet's orbital defense has been long since compromised at this point. While it's likely that Red team died/fled to Castle Base defending the Autumn from ground forces (read up on my theory earlier in this thread) there is zero factual evidence to indicate exactly what they were doing at this time.

29th is when John's exercise with Cortana takes place. Guess what? It's also the same day Noble Team pays Halsey a visit in Sword Base. Not to mention given the current state of Reach it is incredulous to believe that Ackerson (as much of an ass he is) would waste valuable military resources in an attempt to upstage Halsey's Spartans.

So yes, there are several contradictions that have spawned out of mere common logic. There is no common logic presented however to actually make sense with how these events go along smoothly with Halo:Reach.


They changed the timeline...I said this, so they changed dates of events as well..it can all be made to fit in....as for the autumn whos to say it wasn't in space like in the fall of reach and then it dropped off red team and the chief n linda...then picked up the chief linda and johnson and landed on the planet to get the fragment and then left? IT ALL CAN FIT. Eveyone just wants to make it difficult when it is simple.


...Did you not read a single word I said? The fact dates have been changed is of incredible significance.

August 27th. ALL Spartan IIs (this includes Red Team, Linda, Chief, every Spartan in the original novel that was included in the briefing then) were present and accounted for planetside for a briefing with Halsey along with Captain Keyes. John is still undergoing his exercises on the 29th with Cortana. The Autumn is still on the ground waiting to take off on the 30th.

So please. With your sound reasoning why don't you care to explain how the Autumn can be in space, drop off red team on the planet, pick up chief, johnson, and linda in space, land on the planet and dock itself and run a shakedown run with Cortana while picking up the other Cortana fragment over the course of a single day? Please go right ahead.

The Chief and in effect the Autumn don't receive the full version of Cortana until the 29th so go and explain how all these events fit in a single day when it already is iffy in a four day span.


THEY CHANGED THE DATESSSSSS......THE FALL OF REACH DATES DON'T COUNT ANYMORE, is that clear enough, they changed the timeline not everything has a set date anymore, but it can all be fit in.

The Autumn was in space, it went to leave, Reach was attacked by a major covenant fleet, it went back it dropped off red team and the chief and linda, then it picked up linda and the chief and landed on reach to pick up the cortana fragment....then it left reach to go to Halo. that is it, it all fit.


You also didn't read the little excerpt at the back of the reissued Fall of Reach either it seems. The Autumn never left dry dock to engage in battle. It was still engaged in finishing up its refit during the month long battle.


Then how did they get to the circumferece, how was Red team dropped off?

  • 10.14.2010 12:45 AM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666
Then how did they get to the circumferece, how was Red team dropped off?

If you actually read the books you'd know they used Pelicans.

  • 10.14.2010 12:51 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666
Well prove me wrong on that one more time so i get all of your reasoning.

You can read back a page or two, the posts aren't going anywhere

Continually frustrating me and not correcting me is a childish act.

So is your methodology of debate:
"I'm right, you're wrong. You're wrong unless you can provide evidence and disprove everything I make up off the top of my head. I'm right because I said so."


The fact is you have absolutely no facts or proof that says the spires can't teleport the supercarrier or frigates, or that corvettes can't carry the material to build spires. I at least have Autie Dots intel which seems to indicate I am right. So untill you have something to back up your argument you can drop that too.

The fact is you have absolutely no facts or proof that says the spires can teleport the supercarrier or frigates, or that corvettes can carry the material to build spires. I at least have Auntie Dots intel which seems to indicate I am right. So untill you have something to back up your argument you can drop that too.

See how well that works?

I'd love to do the math for you, but it should be common sense(something you are an advocate of) that the Corvettes are unable to carry that much material. It also doesn't explain how they manage to secretly construct such spires or sneak into the system in the first place.

All Auntie Dot says is that they act as teleporters, which, as I've said, are probably to transport supplies since there are zero grav lifts present.

Note: After I satire your method of debate, I still provide reasoning for my arguments while you sit behind your iron curtain of "nuh uh".


And it is not completely unnecessary on Reach, Reach is the Strongest Human stroghold the covenant needed all the advantages they could get. Inserting ground troops and ships to attack the ODP's by suprise seems like a necessary thing to me.

Except the Supercarrier didn't attack the ODPs, so your point is moot.


you are ignorant and just don't want to listen to anything I say...all you want to do is irritate me...You are the one saying I'm wrong all the time, you are the one making things up and not supporting it with proof, at least I added an actual quote from the game. Everytime I actually prove myself right you just stop talking about that and attack me for a typo mistake or something, I am definitely not saying youre wrong I'm right, I have conceded to you about 3 times now, of course you ignore that too....I can't wait untill you realize how much your own theories are based on your opinions just as much as my own.

You have really given me no solid proof to back yourself up. You have no way to know how much supplies a corvette can carry but you made a guess an now you think it is right, that only proves my point about you.

You also have no evidence to back up your theories that the supercarrier didn't attack the ODP's, I at leat have the debri floating in space on more than a few levels which you keep forgetting about even though I've told you about 5 times now.

  • 10.14.2010 12:55 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666
Then how did they get to the circumferece, how was Red team dropped off?

If you actually read the books you'd know they used Pelicans.


I haven't read the Re-issued version....But it still doesn't change the fact that Master chiefs training excersise, and the spartan meeting couldn't have taken place...it just means that the autumn didn't leave Reach...everything else still fits.

[Edited on 10.14.2010 1:03 AM PDT]

  • 10.14.2010 12:58 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: KillerDie666

Then how did they get to the circumferece, how was Red team dropped off?


There's this thing called a recton. It completely replaces old information and lays down new information over it making it the new "gold standard" in Staten's words. Ever heard of it.

Here I'll give you some more dates since you still honestly believe they don't matter and you can fit them in wherever.

Winter Contingency was declared on the 24th of July. Covenant are coming it's known to the military at the very least. Cole Protocol is underway. The fleet at Sigma Octanus IV (and thus the majority of Spartan IIs particularly Chief and Linda) does not return until August 12th. By then the Carrier hasn't revealed itself and Reach's orbit is still secure. Having the Circumference have a vulnerable data base for more than two weeks is incredibly illogical. And yes, while you can go whip out the "where's the fact that it says it never ever happened" and be perfectly valid that is not the point I'm trying to get across to you. What I am trying to get across to you is the concept of a recton where old information is completely removed to justify new content and progression. It is quite likely the Circumference scenario was rectonned as a result of Halo:Reach's progression along with the Journals.

By the way to give you an actual fact to see a recton in action here's another date focused event. The Covenant have been setting up a position on Reach since before July 24th. They've merely been discovered on that date. Now in The Fall of Reach how did the Covenant find Reach? Oh right they followed Keyes' shi-....oh wait...What's that? Oh right he doesn't get back to Reach until the 12th of August. What does this mean? Quite simply that the event that a Covenant probe attached itself to the Iroquois and followed it to Reach never happened. It was rectonned. There is now a new untold event that occurred that led the Covenant to Reach.

So do you care how to explain how the Covenant finding Reach by tracking Keyes before he even gets to Reach fits in the new timeline?

  • 10.14.2010 12:58 AM PDT
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  • user homepage:


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: KillerDie666

Then how did they get to the circumferece, how was Red team dropped off?


There's this thing called a recton. It completely replaces old information and lays down new information over it making it the new "gold standard" in Staten's words. Ever heard of it.

Here I'll give you some more dates since you still honestly believe they don't matter and you can fit them in wherever.

Winter Contingency was declared on the 24th of July. Covenant are coming it's known to the military at the very least. Cole Protocol is underway. The fleet at Sigma Octanus IV (and thus the majority of Spartan IIs particularly Chief and Linda) does not return until August 12th. By then the Carrier hasn't revealed itself and Reach's orbit is still secure. Having the Circumference have a vulnerable data base for more than two weeks is incredibly illogical. And yes, while you can go whip out the "where's the fact that it says it never ever happened" and be perfectly valid that is not the point I'm trying to get across to you. What I am trying to get across to you is the concept of a recton where old information is completely removed to justify new content and progression. It is quite likely the Circumference scenario was rectonned as a result of Halo:Reach's progression along with the Journals.

By the way to give you an actual fact to see a recton in action here's another date focused event. The Covenant have been setting up a position on Reach since before July 24th. They've merely been discovered on that date. Now in The Fall of Reach how did the Covenant find Reach? Oh right they followed Keyes' shi-....oh wait...What's that? Oh right he doesn't get back to Reach until the 12th of August. What does this mean? Quite simply that the event that a Covenant probe attached itself to the Iroquois and followed it to Reach never happened. It was rectonned. There is now a new untold event that occurred that led the Covenant to Reach.

So do you care how to explain how the Covenant finding Reach by tracking Keyes before he even gets to Reach fits in the new timeline?


I know what a retcon is....I never said anything about the Iriquos nor have I disputed how the covenant found reach...I don't know neither do you.

Circumference was a prowler...and as we already know ONI doesn't always follow the cole protocol.

  • 10.14.2010 1:02 AM PDT