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This topic has moved here: Subject: Decoding the data pads
  • Subject: Decoding the data pads
Subject: Decoding the data pads

Thanks for the thread. Really need to get on my halo lore. I forget how deep this can get. Anyways this may not really help but why do I get the feeling that Hasley mentioned something about a group of AI's during the reach campign, around the part were they collect cortana. Maybe Im just tripping myself out, I don't know.

On another note Data Pad 19 is interesting. It sounds like a human as he mentions physical actions such as standing on grass, but the way it's written can almost all be metaphorical(?) such as how he talks about the digging. Is it possible for AI's to take a physical form? His language throws me off in the beginning as well, as I don't see an AI "covering his ass" but maybe an AI was influenced by human emotions?

Note sure if this has been stated but some of the capital letter spell out things like HALO REACH PLANET (data pad #7) and I do believe the numbers point of the DP number.

[Edited on 12.31.2010 4:14 AM PST]

  • 12.31.2010 4:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: kippa
They can't be Smart AI's by any measure.

The date of the first meeting of the Committee is in 2310, well before the invention of any Smart AI generation.

IMO, they don't actually have to be Smart AI either. There isn't a large degree of creativity associated to their actions, they're simply processing numbers and causing the results they want by manipulating their sample. You could argue that their method of this is 'creative', but it really doesn't have to be at all.

Or, you could assume that they're Forerunner AI, which doesn't have much more supporting it than the reversed audio that can be heard in the background.

I personally believe that they are Human AI, and that they are Dumb AI.


The AI's ages are proof that they are forerunner AIs because even dumb AIs can't live longer than about 60 years and these AI are several centuries old

Also they wouldn't know about the flood because forerunner AIs don't know more that they need to like with guilty spark in case the are captured by the flood

  • 12.31.2010 9:25 AM PDT
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I was under the impression that the guy who had the data pads was an AI. But in like ways that a brain can be mapped to an AI, he (the AI) was remapped unto a vacant brain. Thus escaping the confines of an AI in order to better help humanity...i think its alluded to in the last data pad.

  • 12.31.2010 10:39 AM PDT

I doubt they are forerunner AI's. but in data pad 15 they are having an emergancy meeting and they talk about a third participant that the covenant are terrified of, and who does the covenant fear ? that would be the flood. Basicly in a nutshell, these AI's have no knowledge of the flood so i seriously doubt they are forerunner AI. Although the idea that they are forerunner is not compleatly out of the question.

its not letting me post the quotes for some reason but if you look at datapad 15 you'll see what im talking about

[Edited on 12.31.2010 10:59 AM PST]

  • 12.31.2010 10:44 AM PDT

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I have one question:

Where do you get the John-cortana info in datapad no 18?

All I understood from that one was something along the lines of reversing the process that turns a human brain into an AI.

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Also, they might be somehow related to forerunners.

After reading the first 2 chapters of Cryptum, the forerunner/human relation is much different then what we had thought, and it is now entirely possible for the assembly to be HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of years old.

--------------------------------------

Also, hysterical joker, turokman2000 is right, Hasesly theorised on a AI that was compoased of a tribunial, which would work out to deicde which actions to take, stemming of rampancy by spreading out tasks or something, I read it a while ago when I was re-reading the journal.

[Edited on 12.31.2010 3:57 PM PST]

  • 12.31.2010 3:34 PM PDT

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Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
These would appear, from some of the data pads, to be Forerunner AIs. This is probably not correct, since they appear to have minimal knowledge of the Flood and the Shield World Onyx.

Still, they explain some of ONI's shadier activities.


Remember how The 343 Guilty Spark construct thought Master Chief was a Forerunner? and didn't know alot about the actual Forerunners themselves? Maybe they ARE Forerunner AI's but the Forerunners didn't let them know everything? It's possible, like if you want to delete something you don't want on your Hard Drive so your computer can use the space for something else, OR they could be Rampant and slowly be losing information? Or it COULD just be Human AI's but how would they be involved so deeply without the Humans knowledge?

  • 01.01.2011 3:59 AM PDT

Educated always wins.

Great find(s).

  • 01.01.2011 4:47 AM PDT


Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
-------------------------------------
Also, they might be somehow related to forerunners.

After reading the first 2 chapters of Cryptum, the forerunner/human relation is much different then what we had thought, and it is now entirely possible for the assembly to be HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of years old.

--------------------------------------
This is what I was thinking. The AIs from the data pads might be human AIs created before/durring the Human-Forerunner War and has spend the past several thousands years looking after humanity and guiding our redevelopment.

[Edited on 01.01.2011 12:44 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 12:42 PM PDT

I belive that the idea of the assembly being forerunner AI's that were not given enough knowledge about the flood, and the covenant itself holds little water, but it holds some none-the-less. Due to data pad 4 saying "But we are Minds electronically excised from human bodies." but i guess one could dispute human and forerunner but theirs more evidence proving they are human AI then that they are forerunner AI
---------------------------------------------------------------

consider data pad 8 as well:

"It is now the opinion of the Assembly that our creators would have been unable to stop themselves from initiating contact even if advised against doing so - contact with a culture of extra-solar origin is one of their longest held desires."


notice the "our creators" part, meaning it was humans who created these AI. but you could, once again argue they are mistaking humans for forerunner.....

[Edited on 01.01.2011 3:00 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 2:59 PM PDT
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I'm pretty sure the AI's are Human, but created during or prior to the Human Forerunner War, in order to preserve Humanity. They don't know of the Flood because once Humanity was 'devolved' the AI would have no where to go, and would like be isolated in one area (I'm think a slipspace station, but thats a different theory) without contact to the rest of the Universe because Humans lost all their Technology. Then Flood war hits, and dissipates, finally Humans get computers back, and then the AI's can again contribute to Human affairs, without knowledge of the Flood or the Covies or anything else. Whether they know about the Forerunners or not is debatable.

  • 01.01.2011 3:51 PM PDT

Mabe they were created from humans, by the forerunners after the war to help guide humanity in minor ways ? would explain the long life cycle and why the AI's accociate themselfs with humans so much.

  • 01.01.2011 10:50 PM PDT
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Forerunners seemed incapable of creating meta-stable AI's. The only Forerunner AI's we have run into are 343 Guilty Spark (Rampant), Mendicate Bias (Rampant as -blam!-), and a few others who all seem more or less off their rockers.

This suggests Forerunners were incapable of creating metastable AI's.
But it is not outside radical doubt, as Offensive Bias is still floating around somewhere, whether rampant or not we don't know.

The simplest answer seems to be they were Humanities Failsafe, as the Rings were the Forerunners. Maybe, we're just subtler?

  • 01.02.2011 7:25 AM PDT

Im not so shure the forerunners were incapable of creating a meta-stable AI, the fact that 343 guilty spark went rampant was that he had spent tens of thousands of years alone and waiting for the "reclaimer". after spending that long on his own i think anyone/anything with self awareness would be a little crazy. Plus he dident go truely rampent untill they tried to destroy the ark

032 Mendicate Bias became rampant after 43 years of talking with the gravemind, now i dont know about you but that seems like a REALLY long time to talk to a nearly omniscient being, and he slowly turned bias agaist the forerunners.

Now im concluding that a main factor in AI rampancy is abuse ( gravemind ) or being alone ( spark ) so the assembly being made up of 3 or so AI's would effectivly stave off being alone and without the flood to corrupt them, they would remain well within sanity and away from rampancy.

  • 01.02.2011 1:02 PM PDT
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If the Forerunners could create metastable AI's then Humanity would likely have found some on Forerunner artifacts. Because once metastable a AI no longer needs to expand and can contently remain in one area. 343 might have gone rampants, but being alone could also lead to meta-stability. I feel if there was a meta-stable Forerunner AI around it would likely know of the Mantle (maybe not abide by) and try and at least communicate with Humans. I find it unlikely the Forerunners created a meta-stable AI that is still functional, where as either A) Humans did (several in the committee) or B) The committee cannot be from a prior time frame, making them UNSC. Not sure where but canon states 'if a AI cannot achieve meta stability it must continue to expand indefinitely, lest it think itself to death.' This implies that the committee is either meta-stable or each member is no older than 7 years of age.

  • 01.02.2011 2:08 PM PDT

definetly, i wholesomely agree they are UNSC AI. i was stateing that we shouldent compleatly cut out the idea that they may have forerunner origins.

But if thses AI's are UNSC then:

A) ONI has little knowledge of them
B) ONI likes to lie and the creation of the first smart AI was much much earlyer then they said. and have become meta-stable
c) forerunner AI's created from human brains (( not a huge fan of this one but the theory does hold water ))

I did read somewhere that the assembly could have started at much earlyer date, and as the AI's went rampent/ died they could have stored their collective knowledge for then next generation of AI to take their place


Also, although 1 dumb AI may not have the creativity of 1 smart AI, could 3 or more dumb AI possibly make up for it ?



[Edited on 01.02.2011 3:08 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2011 3:05 PM PDT
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Ya, your onto the 'revolving door' theory there. As the AI's die off, they are replaced by new ones. This theory is getting a lot of attention because it doesn't require the AI's to be smart (or at least not all of them), making it plausible, and not being very different than from what we thought possible before Cryptum.

I personally think the AI's are the Humans last precaution after knowing they would lose the H-F war. They created the AI's as a overwatch, to stay and guard our species after we were devolved.

I haven't seen arguments strong enough for me to disbelieve the other is entirely true though, so both remain valid.

  • 01.03.2011 7:26 AM PDT

I have not red Cryptum so until i read it then i cant offer my opinion really that far in. im going to have to stop at the local book store i guess so i can take a look at this new info.

But i still can take a few educated guesses. I think its a strong possibility that the human AI's are smart AI's, but thats one mans opinion because their has not been a huge ammount of seen activity from "dumb" AI's in the halo series aside from Deja and Auntie Dot and a few others. so we have very little insight into how smart they truely are and to what degree they can keep secrets.

  • 01.03.2011 11:36 AM PDT

Dont be shy...
Im sorry for my coup changes but Im new at this.

its weird all this but i think its an AI

  • 01.04.2011 9:08 PM PDT
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you're naut cookin'

So three months later...

Did anyone ever discover anything?

  • 01.07.2011 2:54 PM PDT

haha good question. in short. we have discovered they are AI for shure and they have influence in almost everything. They are intrested in the survival of the human race. Aaaaaaaaand everything else can be argued. like if there human or forerunner, how long they have exsisted for, ect...
i guess we just dont have enough information to exactly say.

  • 01.09.2011 3:09 PM PDT

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I haven't read it yet but didn't cryptum say humanity was once a interstellar empire.
they might have made the a.i. then
if the a.i. survived the human-forerunner war wouldn't they look over humans as they started from scratch?

  • 01.20.2011 6:26 PM PDT
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Why hello there.

Sorry to be a little off topic but for a long time I thought 343 Guilty Spark was crazy to. But when I looked closer what he said makes sense. I can't remember where but there was a theory on Halopedia that said the Forerunners created humans, or were humans. When Chief found out what the rings truly were meant for, the Chief got angry. Of course he did. 343 didn't tell him that the rings would kill all life in galaxy. Why though? Because 343 thought Chief was a Forerunner. Because he had forerunner DNA and when you play Halo 3 you find out that you only have Level 2 forerunner armor(which really isn't Forerunner armor but to 343 and the other Forerunner AI's were). Maybe thats why he tried to kill MC. Because when MC refused to light the rings, 343 was dumbstruck that a Forerunner would betray him in such a way. Maybe 343 was doing his job all long. He was just trying to save the galaxy.

On Topic, I could see the Committee as Forerunner. But why are they here? Because maybe they were afraid that we would make the same mistakes. That when the Forerunners sent us to Earth to save us from extinction from the Halo Rings they sent the Committee as well with only limited knowledge to make sure that if they did go rampant, they couldn't use the vast knowledge of the Forerunners to possibly kill the Humans.

I dunno thats just me. I'm probably wrong.

[Edited on 01.20.2011 7:26 PM PST]

  • 01.20.2011 7:24 PM PDT

There is the small possibility that the Assembly simply IS what remains of the Forerunner.

After the rings fired, the Forerunners began their 'great journey' ie. their minds left their bodies and entered 'the Domain.' Here they remained, watching over us, like angels (fits in with the whole Christian link). Eventually humanity gained enough tech to build AIs, at which point the Assembly could start interacting (because the AIs were able to access the Domain through neural physics, although they didn't realise it perhaps) once again. So the Assembly manipulated events by feeding information to humanity through their computer networks, and then when Halsey figured out how to map an AI onto a human brain, they realised they could once more return to the physical world, through the Spartans.

There's some problems though - like how the Assembly don;t seem to really understand anything that the Forerunners would have.

Here's another possibility though: the minority is human AI, and the majority is Forerunner minds (or vice versa). Both are part of the assembly and watch over humanity - but don't share all their knowledge. If some parts sound 'un-Forerunnerish' then maybe it's the minority speaking, not the whole Assembly (it would be possible to check this). Remember there is also some stuff in the pads about the minority hiding information from the majority, or vice versa.

Anyway it's a nice theory because it brings yet another element of Christianity - the idea of guardian angels (Christians believe we are constantly surrounded by angels who we can't see but who occassionally step in to help) - into the fray.

  • 01.22.2011 9:25 AM PDT
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"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me"

- Batman

My view is that the Assembly is AI's made by the old human empire before the war and the flood and the firing of the rings. The AI's survived and oversaw the re-building of the Human Race, knowing it needed a war to develop its technology to fight against the flood.

  • 01.22.2011 10:14 AM PDT

MJB

i really like your theory sleepy demon, it makes a ton of sense and removes the SAI life span part of the question.

i have a small addition to your theory, first that they could have combined there knowledge's after the were decommissioned by ONI than used that to disappear for hundreds of years. another part of my modified theory is that since they were earlier versions of smart AI they may share the ability with dumb AI to live for much longer time spans with reduced processing abilities.

  • 01.23.2011 5:54 PM PDT