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This topic has moved here: Subject: How big is the Covenant Super Carrier?
  • Subject: How big is the Covenant Super Carrier?
Subject: How big is the Covenant Super Carrier?


Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: Melthris
I'm running off of fumes here at work (very tired, had nothing to eat all day) but who/what is suggesting that this ship is the same type or model as the two Regret had? What if it was a specialist ship of some sort? It could have been testing out new cloaking tech, doing recon before getting the go ahead to attack the planet? I'm clutching at straws here a bit, it just doesn't make much sense to have such a gigantic ship just sitting there under a cloak for no apparent reason

To assume it's some one of a kind never to be seen again ship with the ability to cloak itself(15 miles long), etc involves making up a bunch of things not already present in the canon.


This is true, as I said I am working on fumes and clutching at straws here.

Definitely a head scratcher though, that much is certain.

  • 09.26.2010 9:29 PM PDT

Posted by: cB4d93
Posted by: Silent Eli
you are a good translator
Idiot can be a hard language to learn, but once you get it down, everything becomes so clear! The whole world will make sense to you.


Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: Melthris
I'm running off of fumes here at work (very tired, had nothing to eat all day) but who/what is suggesting that this ship is the same type or model as the two Regret had? What if it was a specialist ship of some sort? It could have been testing out new cloaking tech, doing recon before getting the go ahead to attack the planet? I'm clutching at straws here a bit, it just doesn't make much sense to have such a gigantic ship just sitting there under a cloak for no apparent reason

To assume it's some one of a kind never to be seen again ship with the ability to cloak itself(15 miles long), etc involves making up a bunch of things not already present in the canon.


It's possible that it was a prototype of breakthrough tech that does not see widespread use because of the Great Schism and the events such as the Nova Bomb that follow.

  • 09.26.2010 9:30 PM PDT


Posted by: BK Burger Boy

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: Melthris
I'm running off of fumes here at work (very tired, had nothing to eat all day) but who/what is suggesting that this ship is the same type or model as the two Regret had? What if it was a specialist ship of some sort? It could have been testing out new cloaking tech, doing recon before getting the go ahead to attack the planet? I'm clutching at straws here a bit, it just doesn't make much sense to have such a gigantic ship just sitting there under a cloak for no apparent reason

To assume it's some one of a kind never to be seen again ship with the ability to cloak itself(15 miles long), etc involves making up a bunch of things not already present in the canon.


It's possible that it was a prototype of breakthrough tech that does not see widespread use because of the Great Schism and the events such as the Nova Bomb that follow.

Which is making up a bunch of stuff that was never present in the canon. It's just as useful as handwavium and fan fiction.

  • 09.26.2010 9:33 PM PDT

Posted by: cB4d93
Posted by: Silent Eli
you are a good translator
Idiot can be a hard language to learn, but once you get it down, everything becomes so clear! The whole world will make sense to you.


Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: BK Burger Boy

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: Melthris
I'm running off of fumes here at work (very tired, had nothing to eat all day) but who/what is suggesting that this ship is the same type or model as the two Regret had? What if it was a specialist ship of some sort? It could have been testing out new cloaking tech, doing recon before getting the go ahead to attack the planet? I'm clutching at straws here a bit, it just doesn't make much sense to have such a gigantic ship just sitting there under a cloak for no apparent reason

To assume it's some one of a kind never to be seen again ship with the ability to cloak itself(15 miles long), etc involves making up a bunch of things not already present in the canon.


It's possible that it was a prototype of breakthrough tech that does not see widespread use because of the Great Schism and the events such as the Nova Bomb that follow.

Which is making up a bunch of stuff that was never present in the canon. It's just as useful as handwavium and fan fiction.

It's not like anything can be done to stop it. It's an inevitability that a fictional universe thries to find scapegoats to make things fit in.

ONI anyone?

  • 09.26.2010 9:40 PM PDT


Posted by: BK Burger Boy

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: BK Burger Boy

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: Melthris
I'm running off of fumes here at work (very tired, had nothing to eat all day) but who/what is suggesting that this ship is the same type or model as the two Regret had? What if it was a specialist ship of some sort? It could have been testing out new cloaking tech, doing recon before getting the go ahead to attack the planet? I'm clutching at straws here a bit, it just doesn't make much sense to have such a gigantic ship just sitting there under a cloak for no apparent reason

To assume it's some one of a kind never to be seen again ship with the ability to cloak itself(15 miles long), etc involves making up a bunch of things not already present in the canon.


It's possible that it was a prototype of breakthrough tech that does not see widespread use because of the Great Schism and the events such as the Nova Bomb that follow.

Which is making up a bunch of stuff that was never present in the canon. It's just as useful as handwavium and fan fiction.

It's not like anything can be done to stop it. It's an inevitability that a fictional universe thries to find scapegoats to make things fit in.

ONI anyone?


I think what Hysterical Joker is saying is that nobody could use what I posted as possible because their is nothing to use as a foundation to even begin a theory on the ship being unique and different which is understandable and true.

Some more information definitely does need to be given to us by Bungie so we can figure this all out though.

  • 09.26.2010 9:52 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: Agustus
What I don't understand is that the Covenant have the resources to build things like this, plus thousands of ships, and yet in Halo Wars Regret is complaining about not having enough ships.

I don't want to know what he considers "alot" to be.
Regret was not a good tactician. He preferred to rush in, but was all too aware of the outcome of such strategies.

He feared the humans for what we are, tenacious under pressure - and rightly feared that sending the entire Covenant fleet could be an extremely risky move. With a 27km Supercarrier in every fleet - we'd get owned, every battle.

Besides, over the period of the war, the Covenant turned whole moons into planetary shipyards (K7-49), and probably used those to build Supercarriers.

HOW IT MANAGED TO AVOID DETECTION: It was so vast, and so massive in tonnage, that it would have appeared in slipspace monitors to be a very large asteroid. In TFOR, Lovell thinks how even Covenant ships don't get over 20,000 tonnes (absolute BS, but let's roll with it for now - imagine how much a ship 27km long weighs).
When it exits slipspace - could it be so vast, that its size actually allows it to absorb its own radiation? Either that, or it is made with the Covenant equivalent of the plates of an F117.

EDIT 2:Posted by: opogjijijp
If it really is 27km long, then Regret's Carrier (at least in ODST) is actually a similar Supercarrier.

If you watch the scene when his carrier jumps, in ODST, you can see the In Amber Clad moving very close to it - using this scaling image that you gave us, it certainly looks that way.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/In_Amber_Clad Go to the Galley at the bottom to see IAC move to Regret's Carrier.


I'm not certain, but it looks closer to the 5.whatever km size of the assault carrier. Wish there was a better angle and image size though. Wonder if it's possible to get out there in theater...
I'm booting up ODST as I type to see. Granted, scaled to everything else, it looks 5km long, but IAC looks so small compared. I'll add my findings.
NVM, it can't be done in ODST Theatre - you don't even get to rewatch Prepare To Drop in it (why am I so naive?). Still, Regret's Carrier looks 5km in-scale to the scenery of New Mombasa, IAC does not.

Just realised. If RC is 53-hundred metres long, and IAC is 5 hundred metres long - it could well be correctly in scale. Still looks a bit on the small side.

[Edited on 09.26.2010 11:51 PM PDT]

  • 09.26.2010 11:15 PM PDT

Come on, slipspace monitors picking up an asteroid in slipspace? So massive it absorbs its own radiation? (How does that even work, using material the Covenant don't have on other ships?)

I want to find a solution, but all that comes up is massive oversights.

At some point in the process, someone screwed up bad.

  • 09.26.2010 11:30 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: Hysterical Joker
Come on, slipspace monitors picking up an asteroid in slipspace? So massive it absorbs its own radiation? (How does that even work, using material the Covenant don't have on other ships?)

I want to find a solution, but all that comes up is massive oversights.

At some point in the process, someone screwed up bad.
Slipspace monitors will pick up anything that is in slipspace. Be it a ship, UNSC or Covenant, an asteroid, a 'trash dump' from a UNSC ship or even a 'cloud of primordial hydrogen'. All taken from I think Lovell's chapter aboard Archimedes in TFOR.
However, at 27km long and maybe 5km wide, it looks very very odd as an asteroid. Only the laziest of monitors (which, following SOIV would not be the case - only top people were on Reach RSOs) would identify it as an asteroid. Alternatively, since the Covenant can send messages in slipspace, they could know about the monitors and jam them while in slipspace - or know that the probes were cycled, and move in-system between cycles, missing the sweep entirely.

As for cloaking its radiation upon slipspace exit - there's no alternative, to having a radiation-absorbing stealth package - or something I just realised, shields could absorb radiation. Shields, in my shield theory are in a 'relaxed' state, then become hyper-dense upon impact, repelling the damage. If a ship made all of its shield portions coalesce into the hyper-dense state, it could be dense enough to stop radiation penetrating from the ships hull through the shields - there it would decay (unlikely) or re-absorb into the ship.

  • 09.26.2010 11:50 PM PDT


Posted by: Sigma617
I came into this thread a little late but:

Jesus H. Christ that is one hell of a gigantic ass ship! O_o

I always thought that it was a little ridiculous to think that that tiny spire cloaked that entire thing.

and to be honest, if I saw that kind of orbital asset in my airspace I'd give up the damn fight instantly.
Operation Uppercut was 100% tactical GENIUS.

Send two Spartans up into space to disable a Covenant Corvette and hopefully disable its communications long enough to board it and kill all the crew. Then take a slipspace drive from a UNSC Frigate and use it to deliver a make-shift bomb to the Supercarrier when the Corvette comes in for a refueling run. Nevermind the Corvette is battle damaged and not communicating(When we see in the books that the Covenant will straight up murderize you if you don't get clearance).

All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.

  • 09.27.2010 1:02 AM PDT

Twitter | Nothing

Posted by: Hysterical Joker
All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.


A ship that massive would surely have a much thicker hull and more powerful shields. It was discussed at the beginning of this thread, but against a ship that size would Super MAC rounds do much damage to the vessel. Also the weapon systems on that ship could probably take on a sizable fleet.

To be honest what they did probably makes more sense than a full out attack, especially if the fleet at Reach had a good idea that they couldn't win a fight against it.

  • 09.27.2010 4:24 AM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Posted by: Hysterical Joker
All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.


A ship that massive would surely have a much thicker hull and more powerful shields. It was discussed at the beginning of this thread, but against a ship that size would Super MAC rounds do much damage to the vessel. Also the weapon systems on that ship could probably take on a sizable fleet.

To be honest what they did probably makes more sense than a full out attack, especially if the fleet at Reach had a good idea that they couldn't win a fight against it.


Can I bring this to the table? If you look in the bottom left, you can see Half-Jaw's carrier, Shadow of Intent, and it's MUCH bigger than the surrounding ships by a long way. That thing could decimate most of the UNSC fleet just by flying through it. It's also seen in the level "The Ark" in Halo 3.

The FUD leaving the Shadow of Intent Here
A closer picture of the Heretic fleet leaving Slipspace Here

[Edited on 09.27.2010 10:19 AM PDT]

  • 09.27.2010 10:13 AM PDT
  • gamertag: opog
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Posted by: Hysterical Joker
All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.


A ship that massive would surely have a much thicker hull and more powerful shields. It was discussed at the beginning of this thread, but against a ship that size would Super MAC rounds do much damage to the vessel. Also the weapon systems on that ship could probably take on a sizable fleet.

To be honest what they did probably makes more sense than a full out attack, especially if the fleet at Reach had a good idea that they couldn't win a fight against it.


Can I bring this to the table? If you look in the bottom left, you can see Half-Jaw's carrier, and it's MUCH bigger than the surrounding ships by a long way. That thing could decimate most of the UNSC fleet just by flying through it. It's also seen in the level "The Ark" in Halo 3.


And it's about 125x smaller by volume that the Super Carrier in Reach.

  • 09.27.2010 10:19 AM PDT


Posted by: opogjijijp
A ship that size could probably hold enough troops on its own to invade an entire planet.

It seems likely that you could easily fit several hundred thousand(if not millions) troops on thing. It's too bad we don't know the standard troop compliments of any Covenant vessels.

A 15 mile long ship making it to Reach undetected?

Could it be possible that one giant ship was less likely to be detected than several smaller ships? I suppose it depends on how their cloaking tech works. It still seems surprising that *any* size of Covenant ship would be able to spend time at Reach undetected.


I doubt the coveant cloaking system is THAT good and also and that size the coveant could of just you know went full speed and RAMMED it into the planet, isnt a ship that size at a fast enought speed could replicate the effects of the extiction event 65 million years ago on earth?

  • 09.27.2010 10:37 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Posted by: Hysterical Joker
All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.


A ship that massive would surely have a much thicker hull and more powerful shields. It was discussed at the beginning of this thread, but against a ship that size would Super MAC rounds do much damage to the vessel. Also the weapon systems on that ship could probably take on a sizable fleet.

To be honest what they did probably makes more sense than a full out attack, especially if the fleet at Reach had a good idea that they couldn't win a fight against it.


Can I bring this to the table? If you look in the bottom left, you can see Half-Jaw's carrier, Shadow of Intent, and it's MUCH bigger than the surrounding ships by a long way. That thing could decimate most of the UNSC fleet just by flying through it. It's also seen in the level "The Ark" in Halo 3.

The FUD leaving the Shadow of Intent Here
A closer picture of the Heretic fleet leaving Slipspace Here

Looking at the CCS along side it, I would say that it is an Assault Carrier, not a Super Carrier. Also, Assault Carriers are tough, but not invincible. A SMAC would gut that thing utterly, a few ship based MACs too.

  • 09.27.2010 10:45 AM PDT
  • gamertag: opog
  • user homepage:

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Orphius_Rex
Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Posted by: Hysterical Joker
All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.


A ship that massive would surely have a much thicker hull and more powerful shields. It was discussed at the beginning of this thread, but against a ship that size would Super MAC rounds do much damage to the vessel. Also the weapon systems on that ship could probably take on a sizable fleet.

To be honest what they did probably makes more sense than a full out attack, especially if the fleet at Reach had a good idea that they couldn't win a fight against it.


Can I bring this to the table? If you look in the bottom left, you can see Half-Jaw's carrier, Shadow of Intent, and it's MUCH bigger than the surrounding ships by a long way. That thing could decimate most of the UNSC fleet just by flying through it. It's also seen in the level "The Ark" in Halo 3.

The FUD leaving the Shadow of Intent Here
A closer picture of the Heretic fleet leaving Slipspace Here

Looking at the CCS along side it, I would say that it is an Assault Carrier, not a Super Carrier. Also, Assault Carriers are tough, but not invincible. A SMAC would gut that thing utterly, a few ship based MACs too.


Maybe more than a few. Halo 2 showed dozens of MACs being fired at the things(though we don't know how many actually hit...) and the end result was the destruction of 18+ Human ships, while one AC managed to land on Earth apparently un harmed while the other merely had it's shield taken down.

  • 09.27.2010 11:03 AM PDT

>>/INFO_ONISEC1SER3
/CLASSIFICATION>> CLASS ?
/MISSION_CONTROL>> BASE ALAMO
/CODENAME>> FACOTA FI
/MISSON_LOCATION>> CLASSIFIED
/MISSION_STATUS >> 7H+IN_PROGRESS
>>END //INFO_ONISEC1SER3 >>CLEAR

I believe that the SMAC would destroy the supercarrier.

Why?

Because even though the kinetic energy is massive, there's also the thermonuclear energy...

From Halopedia, it is theorized that if the ships shields or hull would withstand the hit, the thermonuclear energy release would destroy it anyway.


E: I was supposed to say thermodynamic energy.

[Edited on 09.28.2010 6:11 AM PDT]

  • 09.27.2010 11:07 AM PDT


Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Posted by: Hysterical Joker
All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.


A ship that massive would surely have a much thicker hull and more powerful shields. It was discussed at the beginning of this thread, but against a ship that size would Super MAC rounds do much damage to the vessel. Also the weapon systems on that ship could probably take on a sizable fleet.

To be honest what they did probably makes more sense than a full out attack, especially if the fleet at Reach had a good idea that they couldn't win a fight against it.

Which is why you have 20 ODPs and a fleet of 100 ships instead of just 1 SMAC firing on it.

  • 09.27.2010 11:19 AM PDT


Posted by: HundredJono
Damn thats huge.

But how big is High Charity?

I read somewhere that it was close to 343 kilometers in diameter, i think?

  • 09.27.2010 11:20 AM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

The CCS cruisers that exit Slipspace with the SOI are 1.782 kilometres* long, so consequently you could fit 14.03** of them alongside a SuperCarrier. The SOI is classed as a Carrier on Halopedia, is there anywhere where it specifically states what the classification of the ship is***? The SuperCarrier and the Carrier are identical, save for some minor graphical differences due to improvements in the games' engine. As you can see here.

*According to Halopedia, don't quote me on that.
**Numbers are rounded to 4SF
***Exculding the dialogue in H3 in the levels "The Storm" ["Hail humans, and take heed. This is the carrier Shadow of Intent. Clear this sector, while we deal with the Flood."
Rtas 'Vadum] and "The Covenant" by Commander Keyes ["Shipmaster's Carrier is out of commission, Chief. I need you to take down Truth. The Flood's just going to put pressure on him; accelerate his plans. Punch through the cliffs! Get inside that Citadel!"] I believe they shortened it to 'Carrier for ease of use in combat situations.

  • 09.27.2010 11:24 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: opogjijijp
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Orphius_Rex
Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Posted by: Hysterical Joker
All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.


A ship that massive would surely have a much thicker hull and more powerful shields. It was discussed at the beginning of this thread, but against a ship that size would Super MAC rounds do much damage to the vessel. Also the weapon systems on that ship could probably take on a sizable fleet.

To be honest what they did probably makes more sense than a full out attack, especially if the fleet at Reach had a good idea that they couldn't win a fight against it.


Can I bring this to the table? If you look in the bottom left, you can see Half-Jaw's carrier, Shadow of Intent, and it's MUCH bigger than the surrounding ships by a long way. That thing could decimate most of the UNSC fleet just by flying through it. It's also seen in the level "The Ark" in Halo 3.

The FUD leaving the Shadow of Intent Here
A closer picture of the Heretic fleet leaving Slipspace Here

Looking at the CCS along side it, I would say that it is an Assault Carrier, not a Super Carrier. Also, Assault Carriers are tough, but not invincible. A SMAC would gut that thing utterly, a few ship based MACs too.


Maybe more than a few. Halo 2 showed dozens of MACs being fired at the things(though we don't know how many actually hit...) and the end result was the destruction of 18+ Human ships, while one AC managed to land on Earth apparently un harmed while the other merely had it's shield taken down.

Mm'kay. I do not remember the particulars of the cutscene. Long time ago I saw it.

Was there not other vessels escorting them though? I think there was 13 (some teen number anyway) of CCS class with them. In addition to what shots could have missed, they might have been aiming at multiple targets.

  • 09.27.2010 11:34 AM PDT

"The strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack."

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me..."

ODST for life

I've been wondering.... if this ship is so freaking large... how did they not notice it hovering overhead before asploding the spire? Didn't someone think to look up or check the radar for a blip the size of the moon? Was it cloaked or something?

I know this has been discussed and talked about in much detail but I just don't get it...

[Edited on 09.27.2010 11:42 AM PDT]

  • 09.27.2010 11:40 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: FinFihlman
I believe that the SMAC would destroy the supercarrier.

Why?

Because even though the kinetic energy is massive, there's also the thermonuclear energy...

From Halopedia, it is theorized that if the ships shields or hull would withstand the hit, the thermonuclear energy release would destroy it anyway.
What thermonuclear release? You're firing a metallic slug at the target, not launching Tsar Bomba.

Heat energy from friction and general impact yes, thermonuclear? No.

  • 09.27.2010 11:41 AM PDT


Posted by: echo 1 sniper
I know this has been discussed and talked about in much detail but I just don't get it...

You mean you missed the part in-game and on the forums where its been said the spires were cloaking it?

  • 09.27.2010 11:43 AM PDT