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  • Subject: How big is the Covenant Super Carrier?
Subject: How big is the Covenant Super Carrier?

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Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: echo 1 sniper
I know this has been discussed and talked about in much detail but I just don't get it...

You mean you missed the part in-game and on the forums where its been said the spires were cloaking it?
Apparently. When did they ever mention it in-game?

  • 09.27.2010 11:48 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: echo 1 sniper
Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: echo 1 sniper
I know this has been discussed and talked about in much detail but I just don't get it...

You mean you missed the part in-game and on the forums where its been said the spires were cloaking it?
Apparently. When did they ever mention it in-game?
Immediately after the Grafton is cut in half by the Excavation Beam, when the Supercarrier uncloaks.

  • 09.27.2010 11:53 AM PDT
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Twitter.
WyIdfyre: 'lol, who the hell would even wear those?'
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Personally I thought it seemed far bigger than the likes of the carriers seen in Halo 3. The fact that it filled up the entire skyline in Tip of The Spear and looked enormous in the scene containing it's wreckage.
I'm not entirely sure about the HBO idea of scale, although I guess it's visable.
-K-

  • 09.27.2010 11:59 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
The CCS cruisers that exit Slipspace with the SOI are 1.782 kilometres* long, so consequently you could fit 14.03** of them alongside a SuperCarrier. The SOI is classed as a Carrier on Halopedia, is there anywhere where it specifically states what the classification of the ship is***?

Yeah, the Encyclopaedia. It states on page 273 that the Shadow of Intent is an Assault Carrier. However, this is the Encyclopaedia that mixed up the Truth and Reconciliation with a picture of an Assault Carrier, so I do not whether it can be used in this confusion.

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
The SuperCarrier and the Carrier are identical, save for some minor graphical differences due to improvements in the games' engine. As you can see here.

*According to Halopedia, don't quote me on that.
**Numbers are rounded to 4SF
***Exculding the dialogue in H3 in the levels "The Storm" ["Hail humans, and take heed. This is the carrier Shadow of Intent. Clear this sector, while we deal with the Flood."
Rtas 'Vadum] and "The Covenant" by Commander Keyes ["Shipmaster's Carrier is out of commission, Chief. I need you to take down Truth. The Flood's just going to put pressure on him; accelerate his plans. Punch through the cliffs! Get inside that Citadel!"] I believe they shortened it to 'Carrier for ease of use in combat situations.

Just looking at the Encyclopaedia here, it differentiates between Carrier, Assault Carrier and Super Carrier.

Do Bungie and 343i actually communicate or what? This is just more redundancy in the Encyclopaedia.

So Carriers look like they primarily deploy fighters and troops and have a crew compliment of over 4000. It has multiple plasma torpedo launchers and pulse laser turrets but described as a firing support ship. Size 1'455m.

Assault Carrier is described as being 5'346m long. It is an Assault ship, designed to smash through fleets and ODPs and establish a beachhead, so is probably more powerful than the Carrier (Obviously, Assault lol). So basically a longer Carrier with more guns and better shields.

Then there is the Supercarrier which was described as being 5'354m. That is now retconned with Reach to roughly 25'000m.

  • 09.27.2010 12:10 PM PDT


Posted by: opogjijijp
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Orphius_Rex
Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Posted by: Hysterical Joker
All this instead of having 20 ODPs and 100 ships lay waste to it. Especially considering a single ODP can cleave a shielded Covenant vessel in twain.


A ship that massive would surely have a much thicker hull and more powerful shields. It was discussed at the beginning of this thread, but against a ship that size would Super MAC rounds do much damage to the vessel. Also the weapon systems on that ship could probably take on a sizable fleet.

To be honest what they did probably makes more sense than a full out attack, especially if the fleet at Reach had a good idea that they couldn't win a fight against it.


Can I bring this to the table? If you look in the bottom left, you can see Half-Jaw's carrier, Shadow of Intent, and it's MUCH bigger than the surrounding ships by a long way. That thing could decimate most of the UNSC fleet just by flying through it. It's also seen in the level "The Ark" in Halo 3.

The FUD leaving the Shadow of Intent Here
A closer picture of the Heretic fleet leaving Slipspace Here

Looking at the CCS along side it, I would say that it is an Assault Carrier, not a Super Carrier. Also, Assault Carriers are tough, but not invincible. A SMAC would gut that thing utterly, a few ship based MACs too.


Maybe more than a few. Halo 2 showed dozens of MACs being fired at the things(though we don't know how many actually hit...) and the end result was the destruction of 18+ Human ships, while one AC managed to land on Earth apparently un harmed while the other merely had it's shield taken down.


I thought that Regret's fleet stayed outside range of the SMACs.

Also i think the idea of a 25km ship being to sneak into reach is just silly IIRC IRL we can detect asteroids in the double digit meteres easily and after the ship was destroyed and noble six is back on reach we see the remains of the supercarrier and it doesn't seem to be that long(unless the mountains on reach are far more bigger than ours). Also i wonder a ship that size (if it is 25km) could replicate a extinction level asteroid strike?

  • 09.27.2010 12:13 PM PDT

all men are equal, except i am more equal than you because i am alive and you are dead


Posted by: dangerman1337


I thought that Regret's fleet stayed outside range of the SMACs.

Also i think the idea of a 25km ship being to sneak into reach is just silly IIRC IRL we can detect asteroids in the double digit meteres easily and after the ship was destroyed and noble six is back on reach we see the remains of the supercarrier and it doesn't seem to be that long(unless the mountains on reach are far more bigger than ours). Also i wonder a ship that size (if it is 25km) could replicate a extinction level asteroid strike?


dont forget that half of the super carrier was slipped away after OPERATION:UPPERCUT

  • 09.27.2010 12:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Dragon v 20

Posted by: dangerman1337


I thought that Regret's fleet stayed outside range of the SMACs.

Also i think the idea of a 25km ship being to sneak into reach is just silly IIRC IRL we can detect asteroids in the double digit meteres easily and after the ship was destroyed and noble six is back on reach we see the remains of the supercarrier and it doesn't seem to be that long(unless the mountains on reach are far more bigger than ours). Also i wonder a ship that size (if it is 25km) could replicate a extinction level asteroid strike?


dont forget that half of the super carrier was slipped away after OPERATION:UPPERCUT


I know but a noticeable lot still remained and if this calculation is correct the remains would be like 4km long (just rough).

  • 09.27.2010 12:25 PM PDT

all men are equal, except i am more equal than you because i am alive and you are dead


Posted by: dangerman1337

Posted by: Dragon v 20

Posted by: dangerman1337


I thought that Regret's fleet stayed outside range of the SMACs.

Also i think the idea of a 25km ship being to sneak into reach is just silly IIRC IRL we can detect asteroids in the double digit meteres easily and after the ship was destroyed and noble six is back on reach we see the remains of the supercarrier and it doesn't seem to be that long(unless the mountains on reach are far more bigger than ours). Also i wonder a ship that size (if it is 25km) could replicate a extinction level asteroid strike?


dont forget that half of the super carrier was slipped away after OPERATION:UPPERCUT


I know but a noticeable lot still remained and if this calculation is correct the remains would be like 4km long (just rough).

true true

i did notice that the SC was lying in a mountian range, and logically speaking something of that size and mass would at least leave a dent in the mountains.

Also i am not so certain since i do not know much about the tech of the space vessels, but i assume that the UNSC and the coventant developed some kind of anti-gravity thing, that keep their ships in the sky while stationary (although it could just be that it was so far away that it appeared stationary) could it be tha as a safety measure this system would activate to soften the landing?

[Edited on 09.27.2010 12:31 PM PDT]

  • 09.27.2010 12:30 PM PDT


Posted by: dangerman1337


I thought that Regret's fleet stayed outside range of the SMACs.

Also i think the idea of a 25km ship being to sneak into reach is just silly IIRC IRL we can detect asteroids in the double digit meteres easily and after the ship was destroyed and noble six is back on reach we see the remains of the supercarrier and it doesn't seem to be that long(unless the mountains on reach are far more bigger than ours). Also i wonder a ship that size (if it is 25km) could replicate a extinction level asteroid strike?

Regret's Fleet did, but Regret's ship jumped past the SMACs into atmosphere because he was anxious and wanted to get the artifact.

  • 09.27.2010 12:35 PM PDT

*LOOKS AT SIZE*

"HOLY BLAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

  • 09.27.2010 1:55 PM PDT

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Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

Hmmm that is odd. I found the naming very strange that it was called a Super Carrier rather than Assault Carrier.... but it looks identical to the Assault Carrier right? I think its very odd that Bungie didn't design a completely new design for the Super Carrier rather than just scaling up an old ship design.

  • 09.27.2010 2:40 PM PDT

We'll bury our burdens in blood...

That thing is bigger than a Star Wars Super Star Destroyer! If I remember correctly the S.Star Destroyer housed 1.5 million essential crew. No telling how many extra, not including Stormtroopers and such. So one super carrier would easily be enough to destroy an outter human colony. Having said that, the Super Carrier that was destroyed wasn't even the bulk of the fleet that razed Reach. Food for thought.

  • 09.27.2010 6:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: dalcaeus
That thing is bigger than a Star Wars Super Star Destroyer! If I remember correctly the S.Star Destroyer housed 1.5 million essential crew. No telling how many extra, not including Stormtroopers and such. So one super carrier would easily be enough to destroy an outter human colony. Having said that, the Super Carrier that was destroyed wasn't even the bulk of the fleet that razed Reach. Food for thought.


Wookiepedia lists ~280,000 crew and 38,000 ground troops, which seems absurdly low when compared to the volume a Imperator class SD. Based on ~300 times bigger than a Imperator I/II I'd expect it to carry up to 3 million ground troops and up to 11 million crew. And 21 thousand fighters. 15,000 walkers.

Given than a Super Carrier has more volume than a SSD...

  • 09.27.2010 6:34 PM PDT


Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: HundredJono
Damn thats huge.

But how big is High Charity?

I read somewhere that it was close to 343 kilometers in diameter, i think?


hmmm... Haha another 7 reference by Bungie.

  • 09.27.2010 7:20 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: opogjijijp
Posted by: dalcaeus
That thing is bigger than a Star Wars Super Star Destroyer! If I remember correctly the S.Star Destroyer housed 1.5 million essential crew. No telling how many extra, not including Stormtroopers and such. So one super carrier would easily be enough to destroy an outter human colony. Having said that, the Super Carrier that was destroyed wasn't even the bulk of the fleet that razed Reach. Food for thought.


Wookiepedia lists ~280,000 crew and 38,000 ground troops, which seems absurdly low when compared to the volume a Imperator class SD. Based on ~300 times bigger than a Imperator I/II I'd expect it to carry up to 3 million ground troops and up to 11 million crew. And 21 thousand fighters. 15,000 walkers.

Given than a Super Carrier has more volume than a SSD...

I think we could work out the Supercarriers crew compliment. I am not sure if this Math is correct, it is 3am over here; tired.

Anyway, a standard carrier is listed as being able to carry up to 4000 crewmen. It is 1'455m long.

The Supercarrier is 27'000m long, or 18.6x longer than a Carrier. That gives it a volume 6434.9x larger than a Carrier. One Carrier Volume is 4000 crew, so the Supercarrier Volume should allow for roughly 25'739'424 crew members, nearly 26 million. (I rounded, so it will be +/- a few million depending on whether you have done the same)

Encyclopaedia page 265 is where the 4000 and 1455m come from. ;)

Does this sound alright?

  • 09.27.2010 7:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: opogjijijp
Posted by: dalcaeus
That thing is bigger than a Star Wars Super Star Destroyer! If I remember correctly the S.Star Destroyer housed 1.5 million essential crew. No telling how many extra, not including Stormtroopers and such. So one super carrier would easily be enough to destroy an outter human colony. Having said that, the Super Carrier that was destroyed wasn't even the bulk of the fleet that razed Reach. Food for thought.


Wookiepedia lists ~280,000 crew and 38,000 ground troops, which seems absurdly low when compared to the volume a Imperator class SD. Based on ~300 times bigger than a Imperator I/II I'd expect it to carry up to 3 million ground troops and up to 11 million crew. And 21 thousand fighters. 15,000 walkers.

Given than a Super Carrier has more volume than a SSD...

I think we could work out the Supercarriers crew compliment. I am not sure if this Math is correct, it is 3am over here; tired.

Anyway, a standard carrier is listed as being able to carry up to 4000 crewmen. It is 1'455m long.

The Supercarrier is 27'000m long, or 18.6x longer than a Carrier. That gives it a volume 6434.9x larger than a Carrier. One Carrier Volume is 4000 crew, so the Supercarrier Volume should allow for roughly 25'739'424 crew members, nearly 26 million. (I rounded, so it will be +/- a few million depending on whether you have done the same)

Encyclopaedia page 265 is where the 4000 and 1455m come from. ;)

Does this sound alright?


It's less accurate than using numbers form an assualt carrier because they could be different shapes, but it's a decent upper level estimate. I wonder if that 4,000 is just the crew of the ship alone, the crew of the ship plus the air wing, or the crew of the ship, the flight crew, and the ground troop compliment. I'd think one of the first two.

It's interesting to compare it to a modern aircraft carrier, which(according to wiki) despite being a much much smaller vessel, has slightly larger crew.

Oh, it would also carry 1.9 million seraphs, 1.3 million banshees, and 220,000 dropships. Which means if they launched them all at full capacity, they'd be carrying 6.5 million troops.

Of course in reality things don't always scale nice and linearly, so these are only estimates, and quite likely on the high end.

[Edited on 09.27.2010 7:51 PM PDT]

  • 09.27.2010 7:49 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: opogjijijp
It's less accurate than using numbers form an assault carrier because they could be different shapes, but it's a decent upper level estimate. I wonder if that 4,000 is just the crew of the ship alone, the crew of the ship plus the air wing, or the crew of the ship, the flight crew, and the ground troop compliment. I'd think one of the first two.

I think it might mean the Crew and the air wing. It says upwards of 4000. That might mean that 4000 is the lower functional limit for the Carrier to do its job. (i.e. deploy fighters, which would require pilots) If necessary, it can carry ground troops for the drop ships, which is where the "upwards" comes in.

Posted by: opogjijijp
Oh, it would also carry 1.9 million seraphs, 1.3 million banshees, and 220,000 dropships. Which means if they launched them all at full capacity, they'd be carrying 6.5 million troops.

Sheesh, you could take a small colony with that. The dropships alone are like 3.5 million, you could establish a significant presence all over the planet in minutes. Perhaps that was the plan for Reach. Hit every where at once with a staggering amount of troops, or key installations, like the ODP Generators.

Apparently Reach only has 11'000 air assets. So the Covenant would have Air superiority over Reach in hours if that thing can carry millions of Air assets. Without UNSC air units getting in the way, the Covenant could drop huge numbers of troops anywhere and suppress UNSC ground units. I am not really sure how Reach can only have 11'000 though. Even if that means fighters, and not lightweights like Hornets or Falcons, that is still extremely low for a planet, Reach most of all. I am sure the PRC today has a larger Air force than that. At the very least, all of the major super powers today would total up larger than that I think.

And Regret said that they did not have enough for guaranteed victory?

Posted by: opogjijijp
Of course in reality things don't always scale nice and linearly, so these are only estimates, and quite likely on the high end.

I know, yeah. That is the thing, they do not give very much numbers for the AC.

  • 09.27.2010 8:34 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: opogjijijp
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: opogjijijp
Posted by: dalcaeus
That thing is bigger than a Star Wars Super Star Destroyer! If I remember correctly the S.Star Destroyer housed 1.5 million essential crew. No telling how many extra, not including Stormtroopers and such. So one super carrier would easily be enough to destroy an outter human colony. Having said that, the Super Carrier that was destroyed wasn't even the bulk of the fleet that razed Reach. Food for thought.


Wookiepedia lists ~280,000 crew and 38,000 ground troops, which seems absurdly low when compared to the volume a Imperator class SD. Based on ~300 times bigger than a Imperator I/II I'd expect it to carry up to 3 million ground troops and up to 11 million crew. And 21 thousand fighters. 15,000 walkers.

Given than a Super Carrier has more volume than a SSD...

I think we could work out the Supercarriers crew compliment. I am not sure if this Math is correct, it is 3am over here; tired.

Anyway, a standard carrier is listed as being able to carry up to 4000 crewmen. It is 1'455m long.

The Supercarrier is 27'000m long, or 18.6x longer than a Carrier. That gives it a volume 6434.9x larger than a Carrier. One Carrier Volume is 4000 crew, so the Supercarrier Volume should allow for roughly 25'739'424 crew members, nearly 26 million. (I rounded, so it will be +/- a few million depending on whether you have done the same)

Encyclopaedia page 265 is where the 4000 and 1455m come from. ;)

Does this sound alright?


It's less accurate than using numbers form an assualt carrier because they could be different shapes, but it's a decent upper level estimate. I wonder if that 4,000 is just the crew of the ship alone, the crew of the ship plus the air wing, or the crew of the ship, the flight crew, and the ground troop compliment. I'd think one of the first two.

It's interesting to compare it to a modern aircraft carrier, which(according to wiki) despite being a much much smaller vessel, has slightly larger crew.

Oh, it would also carry 1.9 million seraphs, 1.3 million banshees, and 220,000 dropships. Which means if they launched them all at full capacity, they'd be carrying 6.5 million troops.

Of course in reality things don't always scale nice and linearly, so these are only estimates, and quite likely on the high end.
Given those numbers, how in the hell are we supposed to seriously consider this being only a "scouting party"?

  • 09.27.2010 9:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: anton1792
I think it might mean the Crew and the air wing. It says upwards of 4000. That might mean that 4000 is the lower functional limit for the Carrier to do its job. (i.e. deploy fighters, which would require pilots)


I'd agree. I don't think any ground troop compliment is included in the 4000, and there's plenty of space put them. Can't we currently stick up 2,000 marines on those relatively tiny(250m) amphibious assault ships? There could be thousands of additional ground troops when the carriers are acting as troop transports.

I find it inserting that they are pretty sparesely crewed for there size. Modern carriers, with far smaller air wings and smaller sizes in general actually have more crew. I suppose engineers help with keeping the crew size down. I wonder if they're even counted...


Apparently Reach only has 11'000 air assets. So the Covenant would have Air superiority over Reach in hours if that thing can carry millions of Air assets.


Seems likely. Even if they can't field them all at once, and even if they suck compared to UNSC craft, and even if there's tons of AA guns and SAM batteries covering the planet, sheer numbers would be overwhelming.

I am sure the PRC today has a larger Air force than that.

The PLAAF has 2500+ planes, and the USAF has 5000+ aircraft. Not all combat of course. I'm actually not sure what a reasonable number of aircraft for Reach is. Do we know the size of the military presence on Reach? The CAA factbook lists 385,421,100 as the total amount of available manpower, which isn't the same as the amount of people actually in the military.

And those numbers are out of date slightly.

  • 09.27.2010 9:18 PM PDT

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The supercarrier isn't bigger than a super star destroyer, that image is totally ridiculous.

It's actually 3 miles according to these two sites:
http://www.giantbomb.com/covenant-supercarrier/93-688/
http://misc.thefullwiki.org/Covenant_Supercarrier

The Super Star destroyer was 19 km, which is just over 10 miles. Super star destroyer wins! And always will! And even if it didn't, death star motha-blam!-a's!

[Edited on 09.27.2010 9:31 PM PDT]

  • 09.27.2010 9:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lazer55
The supercarrier isn't bigger than a super star destroyer, that image is totally ridiculous.

It's actually 3 miles according to these two sites:
http://www.giantbomb.com/covenant-supercarrier/93-688/
http://misc.thefullwiki.org/Covenant_Supercarrier


And yet the in game model is clearly 27 kilometers. I know what the encyclopedia says. Did you even bother reading the OP?

[Edited on 09.27.2010 9:33 PM PDT]

  • 09.27.2010 9:33 PM PDT

<3 Auntie Dot

We know A. Carriers from Halo 3 can carry at least 1 - 400+ meters Frigate, in it´s bay along with a bunch of troops.

Maybe, just maybe; in order for the "Recon" Covenant team to go undetected for a long period of time (and instead of creating multiple in system slipspace ruptures)the 10+ Covenant Corvettes where docked inside of the S. Carrier, which somehow remained cloaked all they way into Reach Atmospher...

Then again the S. Carrier had a great number of Covenant settlements inside ready (akin to the Citadels from Halo Wars) to be deployed at Reach.

Aside the UNSC Navy could barely hold it´s own against 1+km sized ships; they had no chance against a 27km ship...at least not in a Space Battle, that should explain why they did nothing once that Gods anti son of a -blam!- weapon appeared around Reach.

[Edited on 09.27.2010 9:45 PM PDT]

  • 09.27.2010 9:38 PM PDT

I'll kill you with a pistol.

Imagine the size of the glassing beam on that thing. 'Looks outside. See's a huge charging circle of light above. Too late to an hero.'

  • 09.27.2010 9:52 PM PDT
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The Supercarrier is about 27 kilometers long. It is MUCH larger than the Assault Carrier, which is only about 5 kilometers long.

Source

  • 09.27.2010 10:02 PM PDT