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Subject: covenant super carrier
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As if this really matters.

@Darth Lampshade

How do you think they built High Charity? How do you think the Forerunners built the Halo rings? The Ark? Through the power of being able to make up your own story.

[Edited on 10.28.2010 2:59 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2010 2:58 PM PDT

10? Even counting the one destroyed over Reach, the one destroyed by the NOVA bomb some stupid grunt activated, and say three or four destroyed in the Covenant Civil War, it seems like just one of those ships could have smashed Earth's defenses and remaining fleets.

  • 10.28.2010 3:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: Legend92

Posted by: Puma Knight

Posted by: Strixel
What about the NOVA bomb?
It would have to be planted inside the ship or else the shields would just repel it.


This ship is just stupid. I will just think its about 6-7KM in my own mind.


Well it is not. It is about 30km. I belive that no ship whatsoever could take a super carrier. It would take a whole fleet.

  • 10.28.2010 3:18 PM PDT

I'm not sure what you're looking for.

"Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing" -- Proverbs 12:18

I wouldn't say. A mac In the engines when the shields are down will disable It to a slow pace. A few super Mac's then will take It down. Hell, one could If calculated properly.

  • 10.28.2010 4:44 PM PDT

yes the UNSC fleet could destroy Long Night of Solace, sure its 27 kilometres long but no shields are invunerable. the person on about unyielding heirophant, your missing a very very very key fact in your assumption about shield strength, the fact it says 'small moon', now i should point out that our moon Luna is not even remotely a small moon, its around half the size of Mars and if im rememebering correctly is the fifth? largest moon in the solar system...! a small moon is something like phobos or deimos, Mars' moons which are only around 12 miles and 14 miles in diameter. they are still for all purposes moons, but im sure you can see the enormous difference this makes in your calculations...! also take into account the relatively low density of moons (low mass).

one could speculate that a bunch of Marathon cruisers (each packing what, two MACs? dozens of Shivas? thousands of Archers?) could penetrate the shields of the supercarrier, not to mention Marathons carry a reasonable compliment of Longsword bombers, don't think the supercarrier would be 'that' much of a problem for a well organised 'heavy' UNSC fleet. just the problem of numerous ships it would likely have supporting it in a fleet vs. fleet engagement. though i personally believe (based on what i have read and seen in the games) that a UNSC fleet getting the jump on an unguarded supercarrier within reasonable range would prevail, though sustaining fairly heavy losses (maybe 1/3 their number or slightly more).

  • 10.28.2010 5:03 PM PDT

also i would speculate that UNSC Everest could take on a super-carrier, since it has several important factors, a) its commanded by Preston Cole, the best commander in the fleet, b) its believed to be an up-gunned Marathon, so thats at least two MAC, thousands of Archers and likely up-rated armour protection and finally c) in the final part of 'the impossible life and possible death of preston cole' it mentions the fact everest could carry hundreds of Shiva missiles (it fires 105 at a gas giant and quite a few into orbit, so lets say 120, thats 120 x ~30 megatons combined with multiple MAC rounds, followed up by thousands of Archer missiles and Longsword bomber attacks).

its never mentioned as well if Everest's cannons can fire multiple MAC rounds for each charge, like the Autumn, though its unlikely since the Autumn was basically like a 'testbed' for new technologies. another ship capable of severely damaging/destroying the supercarrier is a UNSC Prowler, their HORNET thermonuclear mines are quite effective against Covenant capital ships in the novels, not to mention the carrier wouldn't see them due to stealth.

  • 10.28.2010 5:10 PM PDT

A Ship to Ship engagement? No chance at all, with a few hundred at least? likely.

About the NOVA bomb it's been calculated easily into Exaton range which IIRC if you detonated on a earth like planet it would if it is at over 2 exatons can dehyrdate the crust and easily destroy the oceans and atmosphere.

  • 10.28.2010 5:23 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

A super carrier (using in-game measurements) is approximately 27km long. The longest UNSC ship is no more than 3km long. Plus the super carrier shields, which would take several hundred thousand MAC blasts to take down. The solution used on Long Night of Solace was the best solution.

  • 10.28.2010 7:39 PM PDT

What a waste....

27 km?

There would have to be thrusters on every inch of the ship firing in perfect harmony to keep it from simply shearing in half in a turn.


For example, take a few Legos and lay them in a line and attach them. When moving forward, fine. When you swing said Lego stick around, it snaps in half and the pieces go flying.

Obviously, atmosphere and other effects would make a difference, but it's the same basic idea.

  • 10.28.2010 8:17 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
yes the UNSC fleet could destroy Long Night of Solace, sure its 27 kilometres long but no shields are invunerable. the person on about unyielding heirophant, your missing a very very very key fact in your assumption about shield strength, the fact it says 'small moon', now i should point out that our moon Luna is not even remotely a small moon, its around half the size of Mars and if im rememebering correctly is the fifth? largest moon in the solar system...! a small moon is something like phobos or deimos, Mars' moons which are only around 12 miles and 14 miles in diameter. they are still for all purposes moons, but im sure you can see the enormous difference this makes in your calculations...! also take into account the relatively low density of moons (low mass).
Yes, I'm fully aware that Luna is not small. It was the only moon I could remember the name of off the top of my head in order to find its mass and orbit velocity on wikipedia. It's also to put it into a sort of laymans term equation, with brute force calculations and numbers. I might try recalculating that with a 'small' moon in a minute.

one could speculate that a bunch of Marathon cruisers (each packing what, two MACs? dozens of Shivas? thousands of Archers?) could penetrate the shields of the supercarrier, not to mention Marathons carry a reasonable compliment of Longsword bombers, don't think the supercarrier would be 'that' much of a problem for a well organised 'heavy' UNSC fleet. just the problem of numerous ships it would likely have supporting it in a fleet vs. fleet engagement. though i personally believe (based on what i have read and seen in the games) that a UNSC fleet getting the jump on an unguarded supercarrier within reasonable range would prevail, though sustaining fairly heavy losses (maybe 1/3 their number or slightly more).The most Shivas we have ever heard of a ship carrying normally is 3. Not to mention, a Marathon-class Cruiser will only have maybe just over 1000 missiles, and Archers are historically ineffective against shields, only effective against hull plating.

  • 10.29.2010 12:18 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Right, this is a recalculation of my "Unyielding Heirophant Shield Strength" post from page one, now using the much smaller moon of Deimos instead of Luna.

Orbit Velocity: 1350m/s
Mass: 1.48x10^15kg

Kinetic Energy in orbit (1/2mv^2): 1.34865x10^21J
Equivalent Energy in TNT (4.184x10^12J/kiloton): 322,335,086 kilotons (322.3 gigaton)
MAC Round Equivalent (322335086Kt/71Kt): 4,539,931 MAC rounds
SMAC Round Equivalent (322.3Gt/50Gt): 7-70 SMAC rounds

NOTE: That '7-70 SMAC' value is because depending on what values you use, you can get a minimum impact force of 5 gigatons, and a maximum of 50 gigatons.

So, if all the orbital platforms were to fire at the Supercarrier, even if we use the 70 SMACS to wear down the shields, all the rounds could be fired in 20 seconds, and there are still 10 SMAC rounds to strike bare hull, and destroy the ship.
So, using Luna was a really bad idea, since we have gone from the Supercarrier being totally unassailable by the UNSC forces over Reach, to it being destroyed without the Fleet's direct intervention - and the best thing is, by the time all 80 SMAC rounds have been fired, the plasma torpedoes fired by the Supercarrier will probably have still not reached the ODPs, and the many Refit/Repair stations should be easily able to intercept them.

[Edited on 10.29.2010 9:15 AM PDT]

  • 10.29.2010 12:57 AM PDT

The UNSC Supercarrier Traflagar

  • 10.29.2010 5:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: Darth Lampshade
10? Even counting the one destroyed over Reach, the one destroyed by the NOVA bomb some stupid grunt activated, and say three or four destroyed in the Covenant Civil War, it seems like just one of those ships could have smashed Earth's defenses and remaining fleets.
Hardly, considering 200+ Super Mac-Platforms protected Earth and the 150+ ships that almost 80% of which had MAC Cannons? 1 supercarrier vs the Home Fleet, no way!

  • 10.29.2010 10:35 AM PDT
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We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand and of overwhelming force on the other.


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
yes the UNSC fleet could destroy Long Night of Solace, sure its 27 kilometres long but no shields are invunerable. the person on about unyielding heirophant, your missing a very very very key fact in your assumption about shield strength, the fact it says 'small moon', now i should point out that our moon Luna is not even remotely a small moon, its around half the size of Mars and if im rememebering correctly is the fifth? largest moon in the solar system...! a small moon is something like phobos or deimos, Mars' moons which are only around 12 miles and 14 miles in diameter. they are still for all purposes moons, but im sure you can see the enormous difference this makes in your calculations...! also take into account the relatively low density of moons (low mass).

one could speculate that a bunch of Marathon cruisers (each packing what, two MACs? dozens of Shivas? thousands of Archers?) could penetrate the shields of the supercarrier, not to mention Marathons carry a reasonable compliment of Longsword bombers, don't think the supercarrier would be 'that' much of a problem for a well organised 'heavy' UNSC fleet. just the problem of numerous ships it would likely have supporting it in a fleet vs. fleet engagement. though i personally believe (based on what i have read and seen in the games) that a UNSC fleet getting the jump on an unguarded super carrier within reasonable range would prevail, though sustaining fairly heavy losses (maybe 1/3 their number or slightly more).
Good Point, people think if a ship is large, its hard to take out, no its easier, bigger target, slower, less manueverable, but still the Super carrier had 7, yes seven energy projectors, their the weapons used in glassing ops.

  • 10.29.2010 10:38 AM PDT

to be honest i wasn't aware there was any 'canon' specifications for the armament of a Marathon cruiser, its all just speculation isn't it? that and sketchy descriptions in the novels. i would make a point that shivas are entirely limited by how many they decide to put onto the ship, a Halcyon for example could (judging by the amount of space inside) carry hundreds of them, at least potentially, no reason they couldn't be put on Longswords as well, so i think three nukes is just a basic 'allocation' rather than a maximum carrying capacity. especially considering Cole ordered like 120? nukes for Everest, which wasn't an enormous ship, just a heavily modified Marathon wasn't it? personally think the best way to go about taking on the Long Night of Solace (without using S/MAC platforms) is by using Prowlers to deploy HORNET minefields, and attack it that way.

  • 10.29.2010 11:00 AM PDT
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We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand and of overwhelming force on the other.

Yes and a nuke could render a Super carrier's shield heavily damage if not down.

  • 10.29.2010 2:26 PM PDT

acctuly in the legendary it talked about 1 frigute the inqures taking on 1 destroyer 2 frieghters and 1 super carrier. the inqures took out every ship but the carrier that bugged out. the inqures engaged the 2 freighters firing its mac gun flew in bettwen them then fired a nuke fired on the destroyer with its mac then coliding with it dissabling its shield the 2 friegters fired but missed and hit the destroyer evporating its hull the inqures fired archer missle to finish it off then the inqures flies behind the moon to slingshot it as the nuke detonates disabling the freiters shield the inqoures flies around the moon and finishes off the freighters the super carrier jumps to slipspace

  • 10.29.2010 7:46 PM PDT

Now would you kindly go to Ryan's office and kill that son of a -blam!-?

Posted by: jcbtankfhtdjgh
acctuly in the legendary it talked about 1 frigute the inqures taking on 1 destroyer 2 frieghters and 1 super carrier. the inqures took out every ship but the carrier that bugged out. the inqures engaged the 2 freighters firing its mac gun flew in bettwen them then fired a nuke fired on the destroyer with its mac then coliding with it dissabling its shield the 2 friegters fired but missed and hit the destroyer evporating its hull the inqures fired archer missle to finish it off then the inqures flies behind the moon to slingshot it as the nuke detonates disabling the freiters shield the inqoures flies around the moon and finishes off the freighters the super carrier jumps to slipspace


Come again?

  • 10.30.2010 1:34 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: jcbtankfhtdjgh
Actually in the Legendary Commentary it talked about 1 UNSC Destroyer, the Iroquois, taking on a Covenant battlegroup of 2 Frigates, a Destroyer and a Carrier (In the Fall of Reach). the Iroquois took out every ship but the Carrier which bugged out. The Iroquois engaged the Destroyer by ramming it (overloading its shield), and relying on the two plasma torpedoes tracking it to impact the Destroyer - and he finishes it with a salvo of Archer missiles.
Before he hit the Destroyer, he fired a nuke away from the Frigates (but its forward momentum meant it drifted slowly towards them). When he rounded the planet, he detonated the nuke which overloaded their shields, and destroyed them with a MAC round apiece and a few Archer pods.

The Carrier deployed dropships to the 'capital', Cote d'Azure, and then transitioned to slipspace and escaped
Fix'd

  • 10.30.2010 1:46 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

doesn't cole destyoyed one in harvest

  • 10.30.2010 8:40 AM PDT

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Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
If it truly as 27km long, I don't think even an SMAC can knock it out.

It's about the same size as Unyielding Heirophant which had a shield strong enough to 'repel the collision of a small moon'.

**WARNING - SCIENCE**

We use Earth's moon as an example. It has an orbit speed of around 1022m/s and a mass of 7.3477x10^22kg.

If Heirophant was to place itself in the path of Luna's orbit, it would subject itself to an impact energy equivalent to 3.837x10^28J of energy - roughly equivalent to a 9,171 Petaton detonation of TNT - or 9 quintillion tonnes of TNT.
An SMAC has an impact force of between 5 and 50 gigatons of TNT (depends on your calculation). Even using the larger value for impact force, it would take well over 180 million SMAC rounds to do the same damage - and even then, it would still have shields, or at least hull.

In short, no, the UNSC cannot take it out, without the slipspace bomb method they used.
While you make a valid point, the Unyielding Heirophant was a space station: a stationary object. Surely its only means of mobility would be through slipspace, allowing for a much bulkier shield system, as it is a sitting duck.

The supercarrier on the other hand, needs energy to power it's shielding, engines, and weaponry, so a more dynamic system would probably be in order, possibly resulting in something much weaker than the Heirophant's.

[Edited on 10.30.2010 8:51 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2010 8:49 AM PDT

(\.(\
(='.' )
(,(")(")

no it wouldnt be possible for a single UNSC ship of any size to take on a super carrier, in TFoR it tells of them having high power lasers that outranged the UNSC mac cannons, if it really wanted to it could sit and just carve up any ship it wanted, correct me if im wrong but can't their shields take a super MAC impact as well?

and for any naval engagement it UNCS has to outnumber the covenant force by 3 times.

  • 10.30.2010 8:53 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: Primo84
Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
If it truly as 27km long, I don't think even an SMAC can knock it out.

It's about the same size as Unyielding Heirophant which had a shield strong enough to 'repel the collision of a small moon'.

**WARNING - SCIENCE**

We use Earth's moon as an example. It has an orbit speed of around 1022m/s and a mass of 7.3477x10^22kg.

If Heirophant was to place itself in the path of Luna's orbit, it would subject itself to an impact energy equivalent to 3.837x10^28J of energy - roughly equivalent to a 9,171 Petaton detonation of TNT - or 9 quintillion tonnes of TNT.
An SMAC has an impact force of between 5 and 50 gigatons of TNT (depends on your calculation). Even using the larger value for impact force, it would take well over 180 million SMAC rounds to do the same damage - and even then, it would still have shields, or at least hull.

In short, no, the UNSC cannot take it out, without the slipspace bomb method they used.
While you make a valid point, the Unyielding Heirophant was a space station: a stationary object. Surely its only means of mobility would be through slipspace, allowing for a much bulkier shield system, as it is a sitting duck.

The supercarrier on the other hand, needs energy to power it's shielding, engines, and weaponry, so a more dynamic system would probably be in order, possibly resulting in something much weaker than the Heirophant's.
It's total guesswork based on too many unknowns.

If you read further up this page, you see my recalculation using Deimos instead of Luna, which gives a much more reasonable figure for shield strength.

But actually, that's a fair point. Being a warship, and not a space station, it would have other things to power in addition to a shield - weapons, engines etc.
Although, Heirophant's shield system was powered by '512 1-terawatt' reactors, that were dedicated to powering its shield, so must have had other reactors for its slipspace drive, life support, lights etc.
Thus also stands to reason that the shield would be the same shield strength, due to ease of manufacture, application, and fits with the dogmatic approach the Covenant have to science and engineering.

  • 10.30.2010 9:37 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: hal0 slay3r661
no it wouldnt be possible for a single UNSC ship of any size to take on a super carrier, in TFoR it tells of them having high power lasers that outranged the UNSC mac cannons, if it really wanted to it could sit and just carve up any ship it wanted, correct me if im wrong but can't their shields take a super MAC impact as well?
You're referring to the Covenant supercruiser, not supercarrier.
A Supercruiser probably wouldn't have survived an SMAC blast (or at least its shields wouldn't), because a triple-MAC strike using the PoA's light rounds and 500 Archer missiles (Archers are very ineffective against shields) penetrated. An SMAC gives a far greater impact force than even a standard heavy MAC round.
and for any naval engagement it UNCS has to outnumber the covenant force by 3 times.True, but only really works when the craft in question are facing their counterparts. For example, UNSC Frigate vs Covenant Frigate, Carrier vs Carrier etc.

The 3:1 ratio is actually higher than it should be, because the HGN(?) had it so that Cole lost 1/3 of his fleet to one ship, which means that to have lost a second 1/3 of his original fleet, he only needed to outnumber the Covenant 2:1.

[Edited on 10.30.2010 9:42 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2010 9:42 AM PDT

no Covenant ship can survive the impact of a Super-MAC, nevermind it shields, they just outright penetrate the shields then absolutely devastate the ship, usually passing straight through and out the other side. Super-MACs fire 3,000 ton projectiles at a % of light speed, thats a stupid amount of energy, if im remembering correctly TFoR actually mentions a Covenant capital ship from bow to stern, thats like 1,500 metres of warship and still exiting the other end.

  • 10.30.2010 10:41 AM PDT

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