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  • Subject: Citadel Fleet (Mass Effect) VS UNSC (Halo)
Subject: Citadel Fleet (Mass Effect) VS UNSC (Halo)

Wake me when the jews are gone.

It would be like modern army figting the URSS of 1944 without the millions of soldiers

  • 12.02.2010 4:38 PM PDT
  • gamertag: opog
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Dreadnought's would be the only ships that are able to effectively combat weaker UNSC ships, until they get hit by a MAC

Given that all but the largest UNSC ships can be crippled by a single HE missile and ME ships would have lots of time to leisurely doge a slow moving MAC, almost all ME ships should be able to combat UNSC ships just fine. They can engage at up to over 120x the distance that UNSC ships do.

or a nuke or couple hunderd Archers

Given that Arcvhers missiles are slower than MACs, they probably don't stand too good of a chance of hitting Mass Effetc ships either.

[Edited on 12.02.2010 4:44 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2010 4:42 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: opogjijijp
The big problem for the UNSC is they have almost nothing that can actually hit the ME ships, while the ME ships can hit the UNSC ships and move away long before any UNSC counter attack reaches them.


Archer missiles and Nukes with missile tracking, NOVA bomb, AI tracking while using the MAC (impossible to miss btw) Prowler pulse lasers, Hawks Spatan Lasers (which bypass kinetic barriers).

That or the MAC could be used for the DA, save the nukes and missiles for the smaller ships.

Or, again, just slip-space NOVA bomb the fleet without ever risking a single UNSC soul...

Many people seem to forget that UNSC has much mroe weapons then MACs... 30 Megaton HORNET Mine Minefields, it would be a slaughter...

Actually I would nuke DA, nukes back a bigger punch then MACs plus kinetic barriers only stop kinetic energy, everything else will get through (of course a megaton yield nuke will get through anyway)

I wonder, would a Covenant Super Carrier notice if it rammed the DA? (btw slow moving object -> barriers don't work)

  • 12.02.2010 4:42 PM PDT


Posted by: Vercetti24

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: opogjijijp
The big problem for the UNSC is they have almost nothing that can actually hit the ME ships, while the ME ships can hit the UNSC ships and move away long before any UNSC counter attack reaches them.


Archer missiles and Nukes with missile tracking, NOVA bomb, AI tracking while using the MAC (impossible to miss btw) Prowler pulse lasers, Hawks Spatan Lasers (which bypass kinetic barriers).

That or the MAC could be used for the DA, save the nukes and missiles for the smaller ships.

Or, again, just slip-space NOVA bomb the fleet without ever risking a single UNSC soul...

Many people seem to forget that UNSC has much mroe weapons then MACs... 30 Megaton HORNET Mine Minefields, it would be a slaughter...

Actually I would nuke DA, nukes back a bigger punch then MACs plus kinetic barriers only stop kinetic energy, everything else will get through (of course a megaton yield nuke will get through anyway)

I wonder, would a Covenant Super Carrier notice if it rammed the DA? (btw slow moving object -> barriers don't work)


lol.

*muffled pop*

Elite Shipmaster: "What was that? Ops, report

OPs Officer: "Seems we hit something sir."

Shipmaster: "Eh, probably just a stray asteroid"

*watches crushed hulk of the DA spiral away.*

[Edited on 12.02.2010 4:49 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2010 4:49 PM PDT


Posted by: opogjijijp
Dreadnought's would be the only ships that are able to effectively combat weaker UNSC ships, until they get hit by a MAC

Given that all but the largest UNSC ships can be crippled by a single HE missile and ME ships would have lots of time to leisurely doge a slow moving MAC, almost all ME ships should be able to combat UNSC ships just fine.

or a nuke or couple hunderd Archers

Given that Arcvhers missiles are slower than MACs, they probably don't stand too good of a chance of hitting Mass Effetc ships either.

See, at this point your argument fails since we don't know the yield of a single Archer missile or how does it exactly work, even know we have special armor piercing shells. Those MACs are still aimed by an AI plus MAC salvos would cause ME ships to try to evade it which measn they won't be able to fire while UNSC ships are getting closer and closer. And 1,3 light speed (note that only Dreadnoughts reach such speeds) can still be dodged...

Whic part of guided missile do you not understand?

  • 12.02.2010 4:49 PM PDT


Posted by: Vercetti24

Posted by: opogjijijp
Dreadnought's would be the only ships that are able to effectively combat weaker UNSC ships, until they get hit by a MAC

Given that all but the largest UNSC ships can be crippled by a single HE missile and ME ships would have lots of time to leisurely doge a slow moving MAC, almost all ME ships should be able to combat UNSC ships just fine.

or a nuke or couple hunderd Archers

Given that Arcvhers missiles are slower than MACs, they probably don't stand too good of a chance of hitting Mass Effetc ships either.

See, at this point your argument fails since we don't know the yield of a single Archer missile or how does it exactly work, even know we have special armor piercing shells. Those MACs are still aimed by an AI plus MAC salvos would cause ME ships to try to evade it which measn they won't be able to fire while UNSC ships are getting closer and closer. And 1,3 light speed (note that only Dreadnoughts reach such speeds) can still be dodged...

Whic part of guided missile do you not understand?


notice how he doesn't try to refute the fact a super-luminal NOVA bomb would vaporize the whole fleet with one shot?

Doesn't that kinda make any counter-argument anyone else makes irrelivant anyway?

  • 12.02.2010 4:53 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Vercetti24

I wonder, would a Covenant Super Carrier notice if it rammed the DA? (btw slow moving object -> barriers don't work)


lol.

*muffled pop*

Elite Shipmaster: "What was that? Ops, report

OPs Officer: "Seems we hit something sir."

Shipmaster: "Eh, probably just a stray asteroid"

*watches crushed hulk of the DA spiral away.*

Shipmaster: "Resume previosu activities!"
Bridge crew: "I'm a Barbie girl in a Barbie Wooorld..."

And there goes the might of the Citadel Empire, they only had 1 (ONE) Dreadnought in their defense fleet and that thing was useless anyway, WTF is wrong with those aliens?

  • 12.02.2010 4:55 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Vercetti24

Posted by: opogjijijp
Dreadnought's would be the only ships that are able to effectively combat weaker UNSC ships, until they get hit by a MAC

Given that all but the largest UNSC ships can be crippled by a single HE missile and ME ships would have lots of time to leisurely doge a slow moving MAC, almost all ME ships should be able to combat UNSC ships just fine.

or a nuke or couple hunderd Archers

Given that Arcvhers missiles are slower than MACs, they probably don't stand too good of a chance of hitting Mass Effetc ships either.

See, at this point your argument fails since we don't know the yield of a single Archer missile or how does it exactly work, even know we have special armor piercing shells. Those MACs are still aimed by an AI plus MAC salvos would cause ME ships to try to evade it which measn they won't be able to fire while UNSC ships are getting closer and closer. And 1,3 light speed (note that only Dreadnoughts reach such speeds) can still be dodged...

Whic part of guided missile do you not understand?


notice how he doesn't try to refute the fact a super-luminal NOVA bomb would vaporize the whole fleet with one shot?

Doesn't that kinda make any counter-argument anyone else makes irrelivant anyway?

He does it the Turian Councilor way! xD
"Ah yes, 'NOVA', nine fusion warheads encased in lithium triteride armor. When detonated, it compresses its fissionable material to neutron-star density, boosting the thermonuclear yield a hundredfold. We have dismissed that claim!"

Yes it does, unless you dismiss it! The UNSC Trafalgar that was pwning everything it came across was obviously a Geth warship!

[Edited on 12.02.2010 5:00 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2010 4:59 PM PDT

Never say you're bored. Never say you're satisfied with the world. Never stop doubting or questioning things. Always wonder. Always think. But always take time to drop your guard, you don't have to be smart all the time.

Well..... this argument is pointless...what I mean is is that the way people try to manipulate stuff in one universe will cause another person in the other....

  • 12.02.2010 5:26 PM PDT


Posted by: opogjijijp
The guns on Mass Effect ships are weaker than there UNSC counterparts, but still probably strong enough to cripple/kill many of UNSC ships in a single shot. They can also fire faster. Mass Effect ships would have a range advantage, as the projectiles from there ships move a lot faster than MAC rounds. Mass Effect also has an advantage in FTL speed.

We know the the UNSC had 2000 ships near the star of the war with the Covenant, I don't how how that compares with mass effect.


Posted by: H3 Crimson
The MAC gun does damage in the Terratons,


Kilotons everywhere except the encyclopedia, including newer and higher canon sources. Halo 2 has MAC rounds moving at single digit/low double digit kilometers per second, Conversation from the Universe had them below 20 km/s, Halo Reach at single digit km/s, and TFOR at 30 km/s.

Uhm, The Mass Effect FTL drives have been stated to be retarded crap. They barely allow FTL travel at all. Slipspace drives, on the other hand...

  • 12.02.2010 5:35 PM PDT


Posted by: wildnuke
Well..... this argument is pointless...what I mean is is that the way people try to manipulate stuff in one universe will cause another person in the other....


we (Halo defenders) have used only facts to support our claim. The facts state the UNSC could launch nukes across the galaxy with slip-space cannons, just didn't work so well against terrestrial targets as they couldn't put them inside planetary atmospheres and the Covenant would destroy them due to radiation signatures.

But the Citadel is in space, as is the fleet, so this wouldn't matter (especially since nukes are energy weapons anyway, so kinetic barrier would be no problem. Hell, the Fat Man from WWII could destroy the Citadel, if not the fleet.)

We have had no information manipulation, just the facts.

It would seem the UNSC has won the argument *hands Lord Hood a 1st place ribbon*

  • 12.02.2010 5:38 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member
  • gamertag: xReece
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Shepard.
Wrex.

Chief witnesses that conversation. Dies from the epicness.

  • 12.02.2010 5:45 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: wildnuke
Well..... this argument is pointless...what I mean is is that the way people try to manipulate stuff in one universe will cause another person in the other....


we (Halo defenders) have used only facts to support our claim. The facts state the UNSC could launch nukes across the galaxy with slip-space cannons, just didn't work so well against terrestrial targets as they couldn't put them inside planetary atmospheres and the Covenant would destroy them due to radiation signatures.

But the Citadel is in space, as is the fleet, so this wouldn't matter (especially since nukes are energy weapons anyway, so kinetic barrier would be no problem. Hell, the Fat Man from WWII could destroy the Citadel, if not the fleet.)

We have had no information manipulation, just the facts.

It would seem the UNSC has won the argument *hands Lord Hood a 1st place ribbon*

It's suprising how few of us are on a Bungie forum...
Of course the Council being the blind stubborn morons they are would never see that coming...

And the Citadel has no atmosphere except that 7m of breathable air, pathetic. And Reapers call themselves advanced, they obviously never saw the Ark... Well not the Fat Man, since it has a too low yield, unlesss you mean damaging it? A NOVA would wipe out that tiny station without a problem...

UNSC finally got a chance to kick some alien ass! xD

  • 12.02.2010 5:59 PM PDT

Posted by: teekuppi
Citadel fleet would propably win, due the fact that Turian's, salarian's and Asari's are pretty huge. Especially Turians peace keeping fleet has what, over 30 dreadnaughts?

UNSC still has some pretty awesome things, but they still arent in same level as in ME.

Nothing beats 40k in the end. Its just so original, and everything is just made to be sick. 8 kilometer long ships with crew of 3 million men. Only star wars has ships of size like that.

And for ending, this is the reason why ME would win:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLpgxry542M

You dont mess with Sir Isaac Newton.


8 km?

Try this on for size.
Eclipse class super star destroyer-19 km.
Covenant Supercarrier-27 km.
ZPM Hive ship-32 km. <GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

  • 12.02.2010 9:34 PM PDT

when did the UNSC become able to launch nukes into hyperspace?

  • 12.02.2010 9:40 PM PDT


Posted by: KSI SC Matt
when did the UNSC become able to launch nukes into hyperspace?

When did UNSC start to use hyperspace?

  • 12.02.2010 11:25 PM PDT


Posted by: KSI SC Matt
when did the UNSC become able to launch nukes into hyperspace?


read the ghosts of onyx, they tried to super-luminal-nuke a Covenant target on Pegasi, but they failed due to being unable (at the time) to launch nukes from Slip-Space inside the atmosphere of a planet, and the result was a massive signature of cherokov (spelling?) radiation that the Covenant saw and destroyed them before they reached their target.

so they sent in the 300 Spartan III's where only Tom and Lucy survived. It was either that fight, or the one where they died trying to destroy a series of reactors on a Covenant planet, but either way...

  • 12.03.2010 5:22 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

a lot of persons seems to be forgeting that the CITADEL DEFENSE FLEET has only a few dozens of ships and the UNSC has one fleet of more or less 300 ships and for ho say that the UNSC slipspace tecnology is to inacurate they have captured covenant slipspace tecnology

  • 12.03.2010 7:12 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

also i think the UNSC with help of the covenant could wipe out the Migrant Fleet because only a part of their fleet is of warships it would be like the Battle of the Maginot Sphere

  • 12.03.2010 7:29 AM PDT

Posted by: dr spartan32
I've just skimmed through some of the pages in this thread and I thought I'd offer my opinion on the matter.

As Opog said, ME ship weapons have ranges of over 100 times that of UNSC ships. Dreadnoughts can also fire their devastating mass accelerator weapons every 2 seconds, with a yield of 38 kilotons, while a UNSC vessel has to charge up their MAC for at least 2 minutes between every shot. A single archer missile is able to destroy or cripple all but the largest UNSC vessels, meaning a single shot of a ME ship would easily destroy or at least cripple most UNSC vessels. After firing their shots they could retreat or dodge and intercept incoming UNSC fire (or simply outrun them).

I would like to remind you Dreadnoughts are the only ships that fire 20kg slugs at 1,3% light speed every five seconds and they are the only ones that deal out those 38 kilotons. Heavy Cruisers are much smaller, which means a much weaker cannon. Oh and btw the Citadel forces have around 60-70 Dreadnoughts...
Charge times of MACs are different depending on the class of the MAC and the ship... I wouldn't be supriced if Archers were some kind of armor piercing missiles, we already have stuff like that, ity would explain why Covie shields absorb hunderds of them while Archers still rip through their armor (of course in greater numbers). Or try to survive the horde of MAC rounds (one hit will gut most ME ships), Archers and nukes (megaton yields, overkill on everything the Citadel has to offer) at them and thousnads of Archers will overhwlem their GARDIAN defenses and then the nukes will strike.. Seeing as UNSC is capable of defeating the Covenant in Space, I doubt a bunch of Space Hippies with their Magically Accelerated Cannons would be a problem, especially since UNSC is the one doing the one shotting. Plus UNSC would be able to replace their destroyed ships since every colony they have would be safe, they are no Mass Relays there...

Minefields? In space? The tremendous amount of space you would need to cover.... it's just seems very unrealistic. It would be impossible to repel an invasion of a planet with minefields (at least with the resources available to the UNSC/citadel), but you might be able to repel borders of a space station, mmkay.
I guess you never read any part of the books which explains how those minefields work... Funny, ME's side really loves to use the word "unrealstic" in vs discussions (not just here), which universe is entierely dependant on a magical element again? Did you maybe forget what UNSC uses to repel invasions?
Hint: Every five seconds it fires a 3000 ton ferric-tungsten slug with 4% light speed and Earth has 300 of them... Please, don't use mmkay in your arguments, I can't take it seriously and it doesn't make you sound cool.

As for launching Novas with slipspace; I have no doubt that a Nova would be able to destroy any vessel in the Citadel fleet, however, good luck hitting a ship with it. You seem to forget that UNSC slipspace technology is grossly inaccurate, with ships emerging hundreds of thousands of kilometres away from their targeted destination. And as you said, the Cherenkov radiation is easily detectable against the background of near-zero temperature of cosmic radiation. And ME ships don't have to travel in formations the way UNSC ships tend to do.
A NOVA would vaporize the Citadel... Here NOVA's estimated yield in ME friendly language: 1.200.000.000.000 Kilotons. Why the frak would anyone waste a NOVA on a ship? Yeah, but those are spaceships, the difference isn't so huge when a small object is fired especially since NOVA's blast radius is huge. But when the Council would realize WTF just happend it would be too late, their precious Citadel would be dust. Where's the rule that says UNSC ships HAVE to travel in formantion? The reason why they do it is because they are an actual military, not a bunch os space hippies that think they are one...

The mass effect fields created by the massive and magical eezo cores of Citadel vessels also allows them to pull of manoeuvres impossible for any UNSC vessel, that would literally tear them in half, allowing for extreme delta-v. Human slipspace technology cannot be utilised during battles other than to escape. Citadel ships can use their FTl technology to move around in system, which has vast tactical value. They can also communicate FTL, meaning they can easily split up their vessels and not travel in formations which UNSC vessels tend to do.
Where did you got that from? The Normandy is the only Citadel ship with a massive eezo core, every other Citadel ship has a noraml eezo core that you would expect in a ship of that class. I didn't saw the DA doing any barrel rolls, every Citadel fleet ship was just charging at each other... But the problem is that their FTL is still inferior to Slipsapce, without Mass Relays UNSC is faster...
Yeah, good split up you weak ships so they can be pwned by UNSC Battlegroups... And you're saying that like UNSC ships HAVE to travel in formation, you forgot that their tactics adapt very quickly and since when was flying as a unorganized bunch of ships better then flying in formation?

Some of you mentioned lasers. Lasers are not particularly useful in space. The lasers of both UNSC and Citadel vessels are severely limited by diffraction, rendering them useless at long range.
No, ME lasers are useless. Do not try to apply one universe's tech rules to their counterpants in the other universe. Pulse Lasers as being shown by the Covenant are very dangerous weapons for lightly armored ships, ME ships are lightly armored and since lasers kind of ignore kinetic barriers their strenght does not matter at all...

ME vessels also have vastly better defences than any UNSC ship. Even without their kinetic barriers, some ME ships are outfitted with silaris armour. From the codex Asari-made Silaris armor can resist even the tremendous heat and kinetic energy of starship weapons. The armor is nearly unsurpassed in strength because its central material, carbon nanotube sheets woven with diamond Chemical Vapour Deposition, are crushed by mass effect fields into super-dense layers able to withstand extreme temperatures and kinetic energy. That process also compensates for diamond's brittleness.
Their GARDIAN defenses would be easily overhwelmed by the huge amounts of Archers UNSC ship fire... Funny that you left out the second part of the codex that renders your entire quote useless, here it is:

Diamond armor itself has two limiting disadvantages. First, while nanotubes and CVD-dimaond construction have become cheaper in recent years, it remains prohibitively expensive to coat starships or aircraft larger than fighters in Silaris material. Second, the armor must be attached to the ship's superstructure, so shock waves from massive firepower can still destroy the metals beneath the armor itself.
OH HOLY CRAP!!!! ARMORED TINY FIGHTERS!!!! Longswords will take care of your "fighters" (btw Longswords are bigger then a ME frigate)

So, any armed encounter between the two forces would be weighed heavily one way in favour of the ME ships. Their main advantage being extreme ranges of their ships, FTL communication, accurate FTL travel and higher manoeuvring.
Your extreme ranges do not mattter since they are not "extreme" enough to really matter... FTL communication still needs a Mass Relay to have any real advantage over UNSC, without Mass Relays its also ridiculously slow FTL travel there's no proff of that (of course except friagts having high manouvrerality). Funny how you magically forgot about UNSC's advantages:
Tactical advantage, AIs, Slipspace which can be used as a bomb or to launch NOVAs through it, bigger weapon variety, frakking megaton yield nukes, SMACs, Keyes and Cole.

I didn't mention any Prothean/reaper or Forerunner weapon/technology in this post since the thread was about UNSC ships vs Citadel ships. Of course, the outcome could be vastly different if either side could take advantage of their respective ancient civilizations' technology, but there is too much speculation in such a scenario that I won't indulge in it.
Because then ME would get owned, hard?

ok, just my two cents. I don't wish to spark another heated argument where people jump on bandwagons and quote one side and mutters "QFT, PWNED, /THREAD WE WIN", as I won't respond to such posts. I tried to approach this as factual as I can with my limited knowledge on the subject (although, I will admit I am a bit biased against Halo, since I'm such a huge fan of ME). Have a good day. I'll check back in here tomorrow.
Actually now you are pretty much restaring the argument, we did analyze everything and UNSC was victorious. You knowledge of the Haloverse seems to be pretty limited then or maybe its just the bias...
Its not like leaving out the second part of the Salaris armor codex entry betrayed anything /sarcasm

[quote]Edit: it would be easier to settle the argument if we could decide on when this fight would occur, for the UNSC, is it before, during or after the Covenant war?

Both factions are allowed to use every known weaponry the factions use (like UNSC Supercarrier or SMAC, but lets just set their fleet strenght at UNSC Pre-War and Pre-Battle of the Citadel (mainly because the different state of the fleet. depending on your choice in ME1).

  • 12.03.2010 10:32 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

Posted by: dr spartan32
I've just skimmed through some of the pages in this thread and I thought I'd offer my opinion on the matter.

As Opog said, ME ship weapons have ranges of over 100 times that of UNSC ships. Dreadnoughts can also fire their devastating mass accelerator weapons every 2 seconds, with a yield of 38 kilotons, while a UNSC vessel has to charge up their MAC for at least 2 minutes between every shot. A single archer missile is able to destroy or cripple all but the largest UNSC vessels, meaning a single shot of a ME ship would easily destroy or at least cripple most UNSC vessels. After firing their shots they could retreat or dodge and intercept incoming UNSC fire (or simply outrun them).

in the battle the UNSC would be atacking so they would apear close enough and fire before the Citadel Fleet even realises

[Edited on 12.03.2010 1:44 PM PST]

  • 12.03.2010 12:56 PM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

Other thing is that if you consudering all the Citadel fleets they would be spreaded trough the galaxy and all the counsil would be in the Citadel protected by a -blam!-y fleet so if the UNSC atacked the citadel and killed/captured the counsil before significant reinforcments arrive the ME fleets would be trow into caos and the only government left would be the alliance ho has only 8 dreadnougths

  • 12.03.2010 1:51 PM PDT


Posted by: Vercetti24
[quote]Posted by: dr spartan32

[quote]As for launching Novas with slipspace; I have no doubt that a Nova would be able to destroy any vessel in the Citadel fleet, however, good luck hitting a ship with it. You seem to forget that UNSC slipspace technology is grossly inaccurate, with ships emerging hundreds of thousands of kilometres away from their targeted destination. And as you said, the Cherenkov radiation is easily detectable against the background of near-zero temperature of cosmic radiation. And ME ships don't have to travel in formations the way UNSC ships tend to do.

A NOVA would vaporize the Citadel... Here NOVA's estimated yield in ME friendly language: 1.200.000.000.000 Kilotons. Why the frak would anyone waste a NOVA on a ship? Yeah, but those are spaceships, the difference isn't so huge when a small object is fired especially since NOVA's blast radius is huge. But when the Council would realize WTF just happend it would be too late, their precious Citadel would be dust. Where's the rule that says UNSC ships HAVE to travel in formantion? The reason why they do it is because they are an actual military, not a bunch os space hippies that think they are one...

in regards to the NOVA being inaccurate: lets look at ghosts of onyx again.

It shattered a moon into little glowing shards, scorched a quarter of a planet and vaporized a fleet of 600, several times larger then the Defense Fleet.

Now, for referance, let's assume the moon was the same distance from the planet as the earth to luna in real life.

363,104 kilometers away from the earth at its closest. Even if the super-luminal NOVA missed within the perameters of the UNSC's admitedly innaccurate jumps, it would still atomize the fleet and the Citadel anyway, so I don't see the problem.

Also: Longswords are not that big, only the size of a B-2, no where near Frigate size.

Also 2: If the Forerunners, (hell, even Covenant) were brought into fight the ME fleet, ME automatically loses.

We know of two primary weapons in the Forerunner fleets.

One: Power armor six times as powerful as MJOLNIR and distrubuted to the common soldiers.

And 2: the ability to put up the firepower to turn stars into super-massive stellar grenades/or even black holes.

Rendering such an argument laughable at best.

[Edited on 12.03.2010 2:07 PM PST]

  • 12.03.2010 1:58 PM PDT