Halo: Combat Evolved Forum
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Subject: Quit it, everyone.
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Posted by: MasterGrief

Yeah, but the pistol only kills in three shots, has a scope, shoots really fast, and has over a hundred rounds! It only takes one more hit than the sniper rifle; with the SR, it took skill to pull off some shots. With the pistol, you could shoot anywhere around the head and obtain a TSK.


I agree with you, but only to a certain degree.

Halo2 has the most ridiculous auto-aim i've ever seen. I was play Team Snipers last night on Beaver Creek, i walked out of the teleporter with a 5x scope on (looking for headshots) then a blue person barely grazed my reticle for a split second as he jumped in front of me, my gun literally followed him to the point where i was looking at the sky opposed to straight ahead.

You have to realize that nearly every FPS has auto-aim, but Halo2 has such an extreme amount, that just talking about the hitboxes in Halo1 doesn't really offer much of a comparison (Also, when you look at a Spartan's armor, you can see that their neck barely has any armor on it, so if your shield goes out and you get hit with a weapon more powerful than a .50 cal gun, you better die) Last night, i played another game of TS, on Ivory Tower, there was a guy that jumped behind a wall, i shot after he was completely behind cover, probably at about boob level, headshot




I understand that every FPS has at least some degree of auto-aim. But check this out in Halo 1:

I was doing Damnation with pistol start. My friend stood on the other side of the map, so that his body was completely encompassed by the target reticule. I shot three times and he dropped.

About the Halo 2 sniper rifle...yes, I too have noticed the amount of auto-aim. But it still does require an amount of skill to kill the person. You shot him at chest level when he was coming downward, meaning his head was about to meet the target reticule, meaning the shot hit directly on or NEAR the head. If the guy was jumping up and you shot him in the chest, it still would have taken two shots to kill.

  • 11.03.2005 4:38 PM PDT
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Vitamin.... Ah. Just drop it, soldier. We've already had a rather large, if not necesary, discussion about how the pistol works. We don't need to bring that up again. It ended abruptly, I do recall... But it wasn't very nice, and it fell to someone calling your brother a n--b...
So why bring up pistol again? It's redundant! I'm not saying it's good, or it's terrible, for I'd much rather prefer a good ol' Assault Rifle.

  • 11.03.2005 5:14 PM PDT
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But it still does require an amount of skill to kill the person.

The beautiful thing about Halo1 was, everyone had a Pistol. You could never totally get owned by any weapon. Lets say someone is camping with a shotgun and a RL, in Halo2, you pretty much get owned unless you get to either a PP/BR combo or a sniper if you're good enough. In Halo1, you actually have a chance with your Pistol.

You can't forget that everyone else on the map has the pistol. Its not like everyone had an AR or Needler, it wasn't ever instant-ownage. If you played with people who were around your skill level, you never got totally owned, it was always right around the same score each round. When you play Halo2, especially Team Slayer, every round there are completely different numbers because the weapons are so different each time.

Every weapon in Halo1 had a purpose. The Pistol was the anti-personnel, the AR was the close-range spray-and-pray, the Shotgun was the close-range bad-ass, the Sniper was the long-range bad-ass, the RL was the anti-vehicle weapon.

Back when Halo2 first came out and i was a strong Halo2 supporter, i always forgot that everytime you spawned it was an even playing field, since everyone was equipped with the same bad-ass gun. If someone spawns right next to the RL and Sniper, you could still kill them. If someone got into the Ghost, you could kill them. It made Halo1 what it is.

  • 11.03.2005 6:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
I was doing Damnation with pistol start. My friend stood on the other side of the map, so that his body was completely encompassed by the target reticule. I shot three times and he dropped.

I'll try that out tonight, but I highly doubt that would happen. It would be a three shot kill probably once out of every 200 attempts. Just a random occurrence.

Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
About the Halo 2 sniper rifle...yes, I too have noticed the amount of auto-aim. But it still does require an amount of skill to kill the person. You shot him at chest level when he was coming downward, meaning his head was about to meet the target reticule, meaning the shot hit directly on or NEAR the head. If the guy was jumping up and you shot him in the chest, it still would have taken two shots to kill.

So the Halo:CE pistol takes no skill because of a small amount of autoaim, but the Halo 2 sniper also has a small amount of autoaim, yet requires skill? Seems a little biased to me...

[Edited on 11/4/2005]

  • 11.04.2005 6:21 AM PDT
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Quit arguing, you three. I created this thread for a reason, you know.

  • 11.04.2005 3:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: TheVoiceofReason
Quit arguing, you three. I created this thread for a reason, you know.


Yeah, i know, kind of ironic eh?

You should learn the difference between arguing and debating.

Why do people act like little girls on these forums. "Ooh, please don't argue, you're tearing us apart!" Men, are primarily the ones who post on these forums, let us talk.

  • 11.04.2005 3:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dimension
I'll try that out tonight, but I highly doubt that would happen. It would be a three shot kill probably once out of every 200 attempts. Just a random occurrence.

...So, the Halo 1 pistol is still balanced, even though it has these random bullet placements? Does that even require skill?


So the Halo:CE pistol takes no skill because of a small amount of autoaim, but the Halo 2 sniper also has a small amount of autoaim, yet requires skill? Seems a little biased to me...
The Halo 2 SR requires more skill because it takes longer to kill when you have it, and the pistol has FAR more rounds, yet only takes two more shots to kill. This is unbalanced--usually, the more rounds a weapon has, the more rounds it should take to kill, correct? However, this is not the case with the Halo 1 pistol. It's three out of 132 total rounds to kill someone. And earning a TSK is no difficult task when it comes to the pistol.

  • 11.04.2005 4:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: MasterGrief
The beautiful thing about Halo1 was, everyone had a Pistol. You could never totally get owned by any weapon. Lets say someone is camping with a shotgun and a RL, in Halo2, you pretty much get owned unless you get to either a PP/BR combo or a sniper if you're good enough. In Halo1, you actually have a chance with your Pistol.

...Yes, but in Halo 2, you also all start with the BR or SMG.
And no, killing a power weapon camper is not impossible. There is such a wide variety of spawn-points that there is a high chance you won't even spawn next to the enemy. And even if you do, what good is an RL going to do if you're right in the enemy's face? Chances are, they'll blow themselves up. Or, since the SMG is a spectacular close-range weapon, you could kill him yourself. Spawncamping is about as big as a problem as it was in halo 1. By which I mean, not that bad at all.

You can't forget that everyone else on the map has the pistol.
You also can't forget that everyone on a Halo 2 map had a BR.



Its not like everyone had an AR or Needler, it wasn't ever instant-ownage. If you played with people who were around your skill level, you never got totally owned, it was always right around the same score each round. When you play Halo2, especially Team Slayer, every round there are completely different numbers because the weapons are so different each time.
Weapons make no difference in the match outcome of Halo 2. Every weapon is a good one; it all depends on what you prefer. There may be a sword-guy on Backwash...but say there's someone else that loves that sentinel beam, and he fries the sword-wielder?

Say there's an RL guy. Say there's someone else with a magnum. He could use up a whole clip of the magnum and finish off with two lightning-quick melee attacks using the magnum, since its melees are VERY fast. No weapon is overpowered, as long as you know how to counterattack them.

Every weapon in Halo1 had a purpose. The Pistol was the anti-personnel, the AR was the close-range spray-and-pray, the Shotgun was the close-range bad-ass, the Sniper was the long-range bad-ass, the RL was the anti-vehicle weapon.
BR--Anti-personnel at medium range.
cons--not much bursts.

SMG--Close range killer
cons--recoil and not much rounds

Shotgun--A more guaranteed close-range killer
cons--Shorter range than magnum, and slow reload time.

Sword--Powerful close range weapon
cons--You're helpless if spotted from afar. And if your lunge misses, you go helplessly flying past the enemy and either hit a wall, or go off the map, leaving you open for an attack.

Magnum--side-weapon used effectively with grenades and/or melee attacks
cons--bullets are very weak.

Plasma Pistol--Charge ability
cons--Normal shots are terrible.

Plasma Rifle--Automatic that rocks at depleting shields
cons--Overheat, plasma bullets spread.

Brute Plasma Rifle--Stronger and faster than plasma rifle
cons--less battery, overheats faster, plasma bullets spread.

Needler--Strands of needles fired to take down snipers
cons--needles are slow and can be easy to dodge.

Sentinel beam--using its laser to sweep down ranks of enemies
cons--battery depletion is beyond measure, and so is its overheat

SR--uh...sniping
cons--just don't miss. Don't be like me :(.

...Need I go on?




Back when Halo2 first came out and i was a strong Halo2 supporter, i always forgot that everytime you spawned it was an even playing field, since everyone was equipped with the same bad-ass gun. If someone spawns right next to the RL and Sniper, you could still kill them. If someone got into the Ghost, you could kill them. It made Halo1 what it is.

...And you can still kill them, just as easily. But see, instead of the ghost just giving you a tap to kill you, you can board them. And if someone has a RL, you can kill them with whatever weapon you're good with. Heck, some vehicles can dodge the rocket's tracking feature. Is it a piece of cake pulling all this off? No. Is it impossible? Still no. Is halo 2 more balanced than Halo 1? No.

I sound like I like Halo 2 more than Halo 1, because of my complaints over the pistol. I'm not saying Halo 2 is perfect--nothing is. For example, I think the PP's tracking should be toned down just a little so you have a chance to dodge it. If someone said they liked Halo 2 more, then I would give reasons as to why halo 1 is just as good.

  • 11.04.2005 5:05 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Your list applies more to single player for some of the weapons.

  • 11.04.2005 8:18 PM PDT
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Is it just me, or did the campaign just feel like an after-thought?

I mean, yeah, the multiplayer is fairly good, but the campaign is so boring. The exciting moments like taking out the Scarab take too long to actually finish. But in Halo1, the "30 seconds of fun" was almost always instantaneous. For example, you destroy the fusion cores, you see Foe Hammer die, you get in the warthog, dodge aliens and flood, and barely make it to the LongSword. All of which taking like 10-15 minutes.

However, in Halo2 taking out the Scarab was so bland and drawn out it took at least 5-10 minutes on its own. There's no feeling of desperation.

The humans in New Mombasa were all calm and aggressive. There wasn't any trembling human fear, or anything.

Halo3 better be more of an emotional story. Just about the only emotion Halo2 gave me was "WTF THAT IS SO -blam!-" or my personal favorite, "WTF THE GAME IS OVER, WTF THE GAME IS OVER PLAY AS THE ARBITER -blam!- -blam!- -blam!-"

Halo1 > Halo2
Excitement > Dissapointment

  • 11.04.2005 10:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
Your list applies more to single player for some of the weapons.

No, the list applies for multiplayer. That's why the fuel rod cannon isn't listed.

  • 11.05.2005 5:00 AM PDT
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In response to MasterGrief...

Here are some of my favorite moments in Halo 2:
Cairo Station--When you first see the drones and when you have the space battles. The way the sound is muffled and your new jump height really amplifies the effects of space.

Outskirts--When the hunters burst through that gate, and the music that plays along with it. Also, many of the alleyways are exciting because they are littered with snipers. And the beach drive was awesome.

Metropolis--Driving around in that marine's gauss hog, and taking out the scarab.
The Arbiter--Just the big battles against the heretics, and flying the banshee around.

Oracle--I like cutting the cables and fighting the flood on that small elevator.

Delta Halo--Using a ghost throughout the ENTIRE level. :)
Regret--The gondolas, mostly. And the huge hall with hunters in it.

Sacred Icon--Not one of my favorite levels, but...I do like fighting my very first giant sentinel. And I love fighting the flood at the snow camp at the end.

Quarantine Zone--The big elevator at the end.
Gravemind--Most of the battles that are fought.

Uprising--Most of the battles that are fought.
High Charity--My favorite level...I enjoyed the whole thing.
Great Journey--When the hunters fight alongside you, and when you fight Tartarus.

  • 11.05.2005 5:17 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

You left out the boss battle in regret

and the one in high charity...i thought they where fun.



But the halo 1 single had more feeling to it. More of live or die kind of thing.

In halo 2 it was all staged. You had to follow a single path.

In Halo 1 the maps where wide and open so you could proceede how you wanted.

Remember in 2 betrayals how it was just mass choas all over the board. The level was different every time you played it.

But in halo 2 you learn to predcit enemy locations.

It just seems like Halo 1 was more action where ever and when ever. You could win some maps doing very little work. In halo 2 you have to play the levels how bungie wanted you to.

  • 11.05.2005 7:20 AM PDT

This forum is about halo1. The guy gave his opinion about The Pillar of Autumn. His opinion is, that it's better than In Amber Clad.

My opinion is that Halo1 is 10 times as good as halo2. It's my opinion. And it's about Halo1.


My point is,

Halo2 sucks

  • 11.05.2005 8:17 AM PDT

Posted by: EAGLES5
You left out the boss battle in regret

and the one in high charity...i thought they where fun.



But the halo 1 single had more feeling to it. More of live or die kind of thing.

In halo 2 it was all staged. You had to follow a single path.

In Halo 1 the maps where wide and open so you could proceede how you wanted.

Remember in 2 betrayals how it was just mass choas all over the board. The level was different every time you played it.

But in halo 2 you learn to predcit enemy locations.

It just seems like Halo 1 was more action where ever and when ever. You could win some maps doing very little work. In halo 2 you have to play the levels how bungie wanted you to.


No for some serious posting :P

You're right. Bungie is trying to tell us what to do. In Single Player, but also in MatchMaking.
They shouldn't do that..

  • 11.05.2005 8:19 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

lol i didnt mean it like that, but ok.

  • 11.05.2005 8:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
You left out the boss battle in regret

and the one in high charity...i thought they where fun.

They were alright, in my opinion. But they were not my favorite parts, however.



But the halo 1 single had more feeling to it. More of live or die kind of thing.

In halo 2 it was all staged. You had to follow a single path.

Not really. Try playing Quarantine Zone. That place is huge, there is no set path for you to follow. Other levels include The Great Journey, Uprising, etc. My point is, you still have a lot of leeway as to where and how you want to travel in Halo 2.
And I also believe that the "live or die" concept applies to Halo 2, does it not?



In Halo 1 the maps where wide and open so you could proceede how you wanted.
Right. Look at the big open levels in Halo 2 as well.

Remember in 2 betrayals how it was just mass choas all over the board. The level was different every time you played it.
Not really...enemies still spawned around where they usually do.

But in halo 2 you learn to predcit enemy locations.
No, the spawnpoints tend to vary a lot more than they did in Halo 1. On Outskirts, several times, there was a single camo elite. He killed me. When I restarted, I killed him...and another one with a sword came out of an alley. The sniper positions also changed. This happens on nearly every level, too.

It just seems like Halo 1 was more action where ever and when ever. You could win some maps doing very little work. In halo 2 you have to play the levels how bungie wanted you to.
How is "winning maps with very little work" show skill? I know there ws a lot of action in halo 1. And it is still in Halo 2. In fact, most of the levels have huge entangled fights, and they are fun as heck. Bungie does not make you travel one path in this game. Most of the levels are very large and open. Was The Library in Halo 1 one path? Could you go wherever you wanted in that level? I don't think it was.

  • 11.05.2005 9:03 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Wow your turning this intoa skill argument.....

i just want to talk here not argue with you about it.

HALO 2 is nothing compared to halo 1 in the aspect of freedom.

In halo levels all the levels you had to follow a set path. You cant deny it. You had to do the objectives bungie wanted you do do in the order they wanted. Drive across the bridige, go through the straight tunnel. Go through the courtyards to bthe road. Go throught the hotel. Get on the scarab. Level over.

The spawnponits are the same every time in both games. But in Halo 1 the enemys actully fought eachother in massive battles during gameplay nad whoever won was different each time.

In hlao one wide open outdoor maps. Several small facilitys scattered all over the map. What ever one u wanted to go to you could.


And when i said winning without doing work i was attributing that to the freedom of gameplay. Like on Silent cartographer if you know all the shortcuts you could win the map pretty fast.

H2- No open maps. No doing the objectives in the order you choose. The enemys where predictable after awhile

h1- Open maps. You could accomplish objectives when and how you wanted. The enemys had battles same has H2, but in h1 there was a different winner every time. They actully faught, it wasnt a preset battles.


This isnt multyplayer so plz dont use the word skill.

  • 11.05.2005 9:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: MasterGrief
Posted by: TheVoiceofReason
Quit arguing, you three. I created this thread for a reason, you know.

You should learn the difference between arguing and debating.

Don't give me that BS. You are arguing and flaming.
And MasterGrief, you are sexist, too.

[Edited on 11/5/2005]

  • 11.05.2005 2:09 PM PDT
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Now we're talking about Single player? Whau...

Anyway, yeah. Like, massive Flood/Covenant battles. Just a quick burst of sniping, silencing the target of your choice, could turn the tide of the battle.
You help the Covenant? They come after you with Shees, Hunters, Elites...
You help the Flood? They'll come back at you with Rocket Launchers, Shotguns...

Actually most of those Halo 2 levels were pretty confined, I really must say. It's mostly fighting through places and corridors... Cairo? Destination A-B. (Kinda like PoA) Outskirts? Go through the courtyard. The gate is the way to go. Okay, follow me through the Hotel. Get aboard Chief! So on. In my honest opinion, the only way to break away from it all and take an alternate route was if you travelled on top of the buildings. Halo? You can choose to dog it out on foot and leave the Warthog behind... Or use it to your advantage of firepower. If memory serves, it's different extraction endings as well...
Just saying, there were a lot more field battles with Halo: CE than in Halo 2. Even if you did get a Scorpian in Delta Halo, it was still going through a complex maze. Whereas in Halo 1, you go through fields, ditch the tank... Find a hog. Or something. Final run was great. There were so many times you couldn't find a vehicle, you have to take on armies of Covenant by hand.

  • 11.05.2005 2:20 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Posted by: sharpshooter_125
Now we're talking about Single player? Whau...

Anyway, yeah. Like, massive Flood/Covenant battles. Just a quick burst of sniping, silencing the target of your choice, could turn the tide of the battle.
You help the Covenant? They come after you with Shees, Hunters, Elites...
You help the Flood? They'll come back at you with Rocket Launchers, Shotguns...

Actually most of those Halo 2 levels were pretty confined, I really must say. It's mostly fighting through places and corridors... Cairo? Destination A-B. (Kinda like PoA) Outskirts? Go through the courtyard. The gate is the way to go. Okay, follow me through the Hotel. Get aboard Chief! So on. In my honest opinion, the only way to break away from it all and take an alternate route was if you travelled on top of the buildings. Halo? You can choose to dog it out on foot and leave the Warthog behind... Or use it to your advantage of firepower. If memory serves, it's different extraction endings as well...
Just saying, there were a lot more field battles with Halo: CE than in Halo 2. Even if you did get a Scorpian in Delta Halo, it was still going through a complex maze. Whereas in Halo 1, you go through fields, ditch the tank... Find a hog. Or something. Final run was great. There were so many times you couldn't find a vehicle, you have to take on armies of Covenant by hand.


Thats what im saying, H2 doesnt have any of that.

  • 11.05.2005 2:22 PM PDT
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SP- replayability
H1: non-linear
H2: skulls
better map design beats goofy bonuses any day of the week.

MP- replayability
H1: balanced guns that require accuracy to use and dodging to avoid
H2: imbalanced weapons, additional aim/melee assist, same numer of options as halo1
is it any wonder that live is the reason halo2 is so popular? nothing more...

  • 11.05.2005 4:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: kazoo
SP- replayability
H1: non-linear
H2: skulls
better map design beats goofy bonuses any day of the week.

MP- replayability
H1: balanced guns that require accuracy to use and dodging to avoid
H2: imbalanced weapons, additional aim/melee assist, same numer of options as halo1
is it any wonder that live is the reason halo2 is so popular? nothing more...


Imbalanced weapons?
...ever heard of the BR.

[Edited on 11/5/2005]

  • 11.05.2005 4:38 PM PDT
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ever heard of the SMG, needler, magnum, plasma pistol, sniper rifle, sword, or rocket launcher?

whoo hoo. they have a BR that is fairly balanced... but not quite.

  • 11.05.2005 4:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: kazoo
ever heard of the SMG, needler, magnum, plasma pistol, sniper rifle, sword, or rocket launcher?

whoo hoo. they have a BR that is fairly balanced... but not quite.


What about H1, the only balanced weapon I saw there was a pistol with a scope.

  • 11.05.2005 5:13 PM PDT

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