Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Intel and Nvidia
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Posted by: Mr B
Posted by: TMH1988
Posted by: Mr B
....

Not sure what AMD were doing with their 754 pin range, which seems to have died very quickly. I look upon that as a poor mans 64bit system. ok for now, but with very few upgrade oppurtunities in the future.
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what are you talking about very few upgrades in the future. AMD is not going with DDR2 ram because their method with having hte memory controller on the processor die is more efficient than on the northbridge. Almost all new motherboards have both pci-e and agp. There are socket 754 motherboards that use pci-e.

I dont understand where your coming from with the no future upgrades. Almost all new technology can be used with any AMD. Please explain your reasoning...



Ehh read my post man. I said the 754 pin range of processors. You compare it to the stuff 939 has out for it, and its really lacking. Take a look at the motherboards out for 754 pin athlons and the 939 pin ones. Then maybe you will see what I mean. Theres a vastly reduced range of mobos compared to 939's.



Ok i see what your saying, but thats only because 939 took over 754's. It doesn't mean that theyre going to stop producing stuff for the socket 754's. They still have all of the same technology that the 939's do, but because the 939's are now the dominant socket they produce more for them. They still make 754 mobo's with pci-e and all that good stuff. I see what your talking about though.

  • 11.08.2005 8:54 AM PDT
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Dude, 754 and 939 are different architectures. They're just an increase in pin count. One of the more important advantages of utilizing better technology that's seen with 939 is dual channel RAM, effectively a double bandwidth. That, and a 400MHz faster bus speed.

754 fell short of expectations. 939 came in to rescue 940 and take over the 754 domain.

  • 11.08.2005 11:18 AM PDT
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what are you talkin about man, intel proccessors are not as good for gaming as amd is, plus im pretty sure intel cant match the amd fx 57 if your going to do stuff with like programs and like word and stuff intel is better i think. btw even though im an nvidia fanboy i still think that ati is a good company although nvidia is winning the race right now. oh yea TMH, the 7800gtx does a little better than the 1800xt on some things.

EDIT: oh yea heres my pc

amd 64 x2 3800+ overclocked
1gb (2x 512mb) corsair XMS pc 3200 ram
nvidia 6800gt overclocked to ultra speeds with water cooling
DFI lan party UT nforce 4 SLI
200 gb hard drive

the whole comp is water cooled and i have a xion case, the one with all the green leds in it.

[Edited on 11/8/2005]

  • 11.08.2005 12:18 PM PDT
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"oh yea TMH, the 7800gtx does a little better than the 1800xt on some things." <-- mostly open GL benchmarks, which was what i was referring to. when buying a video card it basically comes down to what kind of deal you can find, and what games (if only certain ones) you will be playing.

btw, your pc sounds cute (no sarcasim intended) i have a black dragon tower with blue leds :D although some of them burned out just last week :(

  • 11.08.2005 2:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartanbadass
what are you talkin about man, intel proccessors are not as good for gaming as amd is, plus im pretty sure intel cant match the amd fx 57 if your going to do stuff with like programs and like word and stuff intel is better i think. btw even though im an nvidia fanboy i still think that ati is a good company although nvidia is winning the race right now. oh yea TMH, the 7800gtx does a little better than the 1800xt on some things.

EDIT: oh yea heres my pc

amd 64 x2 3800+ overclocked
1gb (2x 512mb) corsair XMS pc 3200 ram
nvidia 6800gt overclocked to ultra speeds with water cooling
DFI lan party UT nforce 4 SLI
200 gb hard drive

the whole comp is water cooled and i have a xion case, the one with all the green leds in it.


Lol why dont you bother reading the rest of the posts. If you would have read, you would realize that everyone else said that AMD is better for gaming than Intel.....jk

anyway The pentium 4 extreme edition cards are comparable to the AMD fx series, but because the extremes cost a minimum of like $1200. Your better off with AMD for gaming unless your an intel fanboy.

When it comes down to it AMD's are better for gaming because they give you more bang for buck. Intel's arent bad for gaming, but they just cost like 25% more than a comparable AMD does.

[Edited on 11/8/2005]

  • 11.08.2005 2:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: TMH1988
o yea i forgot to mention that p4 prescott cores can very easily catch on fire without a heatsink.

My 3200 runs at 36*C, while my parents p4 prescott runs about 59*C idle.

I do agree that P4's do run hot. When I had my dell in my bedroom, i left the computer on instead of turning on my furnace in the winter.

  • 11.08.2005 4:07 PM PDT
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lol and he's serious too, that actually can happen. The same thing happens with the room that my parents pc is in. It can get pretty warm even in the winter. In the summer its really hot unless the ac is on.

  • 11.08.2005 4:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gemini
"oh yea TMH, the 7800gtx does a little better than the 1800xt on some things." <-- mostly open GL benchmarks, which was what i was referring to. when buying a video card it basically comes down to what kind of deal you can find, and what games (if only certain ones) you will be playing.

btw, your pc sounds cute (no sarcasim intended) i have a black dragon tower with blue leds :D although some of them burned out just last week :(


Alright my pc:
AMD 64 3200+ Oc'd from 2.2ghz to 2.4
(just got it literally 1/2 hour ago) 1 gig OCZ platinum ddr pc3500
2 x 74gig wd raptors (10,000 rpm's)
ATI X800 XL, OC'd core: 440, 550 (just bumped them up a little higher today)
ASPIRE x dreamer case with custom midnight blue pearl car paint (my friends dad owns a car garage so it was free. otherwise i'd never spend money on paint). Cathodes/led's everywhere. too bright, i really need to take some out.

  • 11.08.2005 4:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: likeomgpownzers
INTEL AND NVIDIA = looser combo

GENERIC BRAND NAME COMPS SUCH AS VIAOS, HP,DELLS WILL ALWAYS BE INFERIOR TO A WELL THOUGHT OUT CUSTOM BUILT COMPUTER .

AMD AND ATI = winner's combo


I wouldnt call vaio, hp, dell or any brands like that generic. Those companies make millions if not billions of dollars off of their products. The high end models are very good though. Sony (vaio) has been known to make some pretty top notch computers. Dell even has a gaming computer. Sure theyre overpriced but theyre good computers. I prefer building a computer over buying one anyday just because I think its fun to do.

  • 11.08.2005 6:01 PM PDT
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Alienware is the best but most overpriced name brand for gaming pc's.

  • 11.08.2005 6:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mr MA5B
Alienware is the best but most overpriced name brand for gaming pc's.


im sorry dude, but im gonna have to disagree.

Voodoo makes the best, although i dunno if i could fight the argument that Falcon Northwest is better.

Alienware has bad tech support and lousy cases.

^ lousy compared to Voodoo and Falcon-nw mind you, the alien cases are sweet cheiftec cases.

check them out.
http://www.voodoopc.com
http://falcon-nw.com

  • 11.08.2005 7:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: TMH1988
Alright my pc:
AMD 64 3200+ Oc'd from 2.2ghz to 2.4
(just got it literally 1/2 hour ago) 1 gig OCZ platinum ddr pc3500
2 x 74gig wd raptors (10,000 rpm's)
ATI X800 XL, OC'd core: 440, 550 (just bumped them up a little higher today)
ASPIRE x dreamer case with custom midnight blue pearl car paint (my friends dad owns a car garage so it was free. otherwise i'd never spend money on paint). Cathodes/led's everywhere. too bright, i really need to take some out.


k ima have to do it too. this is from christmas of two years ago mind you... or i think it was two years...

Intel P4 3.2 Northwood (AMD just came out, not cheap at all!)
1024mb Kingston HyperX PC3700
ATi 9800XT
Lite-On DVD/ROM
Lite-On 52x32x52 CD/RW
Plextor 8x DVD/RW (yes i know, three is a little overkill :-p)
2x Seagate 80gb SATA/150 7200RPM
Creative Labs Audigy 2 ZS (not the platinum, too expensive)
17" Sony Flat panel
Logitech Z-680 500w 5.1 speakers (rule the entire universe)

  • 11.08.2005 7:51 PM PDT
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ATi + AMD was the way to go for me.

New from spring of this year. Actually, it started much more humble than this and was slowly built up until a few months ago when I replaced older RAM with the Corsair stuff. It's definately going to last a long time:

Athlon 64 3200+ [Winchester] 2.0 GHz OC'ed to 2.7 GHz
Abit Fatal1ty s939
Sapphire X850XT
2x1GB Corsair DDR400 XMS C2PT 2-2-2-5
74GB WD Raptor
LG DVD+/-RW
Ultra X-Connect 500watt PSU
Asetek Waterchill Triple [3x120mm fan radiator - whoah!]
Thermaltake Armor
Sony 17" LCD [first generation model - about 6 years old, still works great]
Altec Lansing 35w 2.1 speakers

That watercooling is awesome. I actually decided to just crank the FSB and drop the RAM multiplier one day...no problems, so I'm not sure if I've peaked on the processor or not, but I don't think it'll go any further. The flow of the watercooling is pump -> radiator -> cpu -> chipset -> GPU -> pump. I get about 35C idle and 50C load, but that's mainly due to the monster voltage increase needed to run that cpu.

The story behind the speakers is even better. They're nearly 10 years old and from my first Pentium 2 pc. They still work great, and they're loud enough for me. Since I have to be conscious of the other members of the family, I usually have to use headphones, anyway.

  • 11.08.2005 8:28 PM PDT
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I'm considering watercooling my computer when I get my paycheck on friday :). I dont know if I will though because I'm going to get a laptop next summer for college in the fall, so its kind of a waste.

  • 11.08.2005 9:31 PM PDT
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i prefer amd over intel any day because im a gamer, but i do have to bring something to light (i dont know how true it is anymore now that amd has a nice dual core cpu that doesnt even need a new socket)

but intel does have the hyperthreading tech. this isnt really useful in games much, but for purposes such as web browsing and word processing, an intel allowed me to do more at once than my amd processor does.

im not saying that intels are better than amds for what i use a computer for, im saying that for some people a p4 would be more useful


as for the whole ghz/mhz thing, amds actually perform above and beyond their ghz rating. the athlon series number (3800+ for example) is the compared speed to an intel cpu. the clock speed on an amd is much lower. the trick: more instructions per clock cycle. that simple

soon amd should release a core with ddr2 support, but as of now, ddr is more mainstream, and amd processors remain backward compatible. the new dual core processors require nothing more than a bios update on 939 motherboards, while the intel dual core processors require a new socket and so much power that ive heard (but since ive never looked into it much i cant say for certain) that intel dual core cpus need special cooling tech just to stay at operating temp

i may be wrong about the cooling, but it does remain true that intel cpus suck power and run way too hot. amd cpus are much more intelligently designed

  • 11.08.2005 11:12 PM PDT
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AMD also has their version of hyper threading, its called hyper transport.

And no, as far as I know AMD does not plan on gaining ddr2 support. DDR2 is just tech talk for saying "this is just barely faster, and but it sounds sweet." If you could compare it to the amount of fps that a vdeocard gets, ddr2 would gain like 4 fps more than just regular ddr. Its not much better, and AMD's way of having the memory controller on the die of the processor instead of the northbridge is much more efficient than ddr2 all together. I'd like for AMD to somehow get support for ddr2, but I dont think theyre going to do it very soon. Maybe in the next few years, but certainly not this year.

Right now AMD is working on a new socket with 1,000 something pins. I forget the exact number but they should be released sometime next year, and after that I hear theyre going to deal with the ddr2 issure. I may be wrong, but thats what I've been hearing.

And to why AMD CPU's run so much cooler than Intel's
-Amd's have shorter pipelines than Intel but gain such computing abilities by adding more instructions per clock cycle.
-The shorter the pipelines are the slower the clockspeed actually is, but AMD makes up for it by having better architecture than intel.
-This is why AMD's are in the 2ghz range while Intels are in hte 3-4ghz range.
-Intels have longer pipelines, which causes them to crave more power, explaining why they run so hot.

these are just a few of the reasons; there are even more that I dont know.

[Edited on 11/9/2005]

  • 11.09.2005 1:17 PM PDT
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I think DDR2 is supposed to use less power than DDR, so it's not just speed that we're supposed to expect from DDR2.

  • 11.09.2005 4:18 PM PDT
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1. Hyper Transport is in no way like Hyper-Threading. Hyper-Transport is simply the 1.6GHz or 2.0GHz bus.

2. The new M2's are projected to support DDR2. They're coming out Q2 2006.

3. The first M2's are supposed to debut on socket 940 - just read it at Tom's Hardware this morning. They're phasing out socket 939 in about a year. They haven't said anything more about when to expect the 1,000+ pin socket.

  • 11.09.2005 6:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: likeomgpownzers
INTEL AND NVIDIA = looser combo

GENERIC BRAND NAME COMPS SUCH AS VIAOS, HP,DELLS WILL ALWAYS BE INFERIOR TO A WELL THOUGHT OUT CUSTOM BUILT COMPUTER .

AMD AND ATI = winner's combo


Heehee...as much as the troll who created this topic wanted to start a flame war, he's instead getting the very best of what The Maw can do: constructive rebuttal, citing facts, and gently correcting each other without flaming.

My applause, Maw-goers. My applause. Now keep it up...

  • 11.09.2005 7:06 PM PDT
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im so flattered, he said my computer sounded cute....

ok the whole thing about the 1800xt is gonna be put to rest soon when the 512mb version of the 7800gtx is released

[Edited on 11/10/2005]

  • 11.10.2005 12:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: me15ter
Posted by: likeomgpownzers
INTEL AND NVIDIA = looser combo

GENERIC BRAND NAME COMPS SUCH AS VIAOS, HP,DELLS WILL ALWAYS BE INFERIOR TO A WELL THOUGHT OUT CUSTOM BUILT COMPUTER .

AMD AND ATI = winner's combo


Heehee...as much as the troll who created this topic wanted to start a flame war, he's instead getting the very best of what The Maw can do: constructive rebuttal, citing facts, and gently correcting each other without flaming.

My applause, Maw-goers. My applause. Now keep it up...


AMEN
-Ender DA

  • 11.10.2005 2:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartanbadass
im so flattered, he said my computer sounded cute....

ok the whole thing about the 1800xt is gonna be put to rest soon when the 512mb version of the 7800gtx is released

.....Nvidia will fall when games use pixel shader effects a lot more intensely.

  • 11.10.2005 4:49 PM PDT

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