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Subject: Community Death, Flood Birth!
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Toady I made a return visit to The Septagon after over a month of being away from the Main Forums. To say the least I was appaled at what I found. After discussing this with a few in the IRC Channels I knew what I had to do. I'm gonna try to sugar coat this as much as possible, so it doesn't come out as a blatant insult to the community, and I may get banned for it, but so be it, the point has to be made.

The Community is Dead! Yes the Forums are seething with activity and there are more members and Chapters on B.net than ever before but make no mistake the community "is" dead. I'm not even and Old Skooler and I can think back to better days. I joined Bungie.net on November 11th 2004 under the name of snowmanaxt. Friday will mark my One Year anniversary on Bungie.net, and it almost makes me cry to see what it has turned into.

Lets think back a bit.

I'll begin with Chapters, they used to be a part of the community. Chapters worked together, helped each other. Founders passed on thier knowledge to other Founders, members respected Founders and the work they put in, instead of taking advantage of it. Chapters were created to provide content for members and places to gather to discuss certain topics, Chapters had meaning. Today I see Chapters created for the sole purpose of being the biggest and best or as a direct retaliation to another Chapter. Chapters actually war with each other Chapters and members actually try to "conquer" Chapters of all things. Members treat Founders with little or no respect, knowing they dont have to provide them with the content they do. What happened to the Community?

Next we move on to the Main Forums, they used to be a community also, believe it or not. I remember a time when I could visit The Septagon and entire page of intelligent conversation and debate over community issues. I remember The Underground as a Hub of oldskool activity where newskoll members could collide with the oldskoolers in intelligent conversation. I remember a Zanzibar and Optimatch full of actuall Halo 2 Multiplayer and Live discussions. I remember a community.

Now on the other hand, there is no community, in it's place: A Flood. The Sptagon is full of members trying to write thier own little guides to everything, even if it's already been written, just to get recognition, not to help people. When a question is asked, sure it answered, but then echoed 15 more times, the same answer, and argued over who gets credit for answering it. The Underground is full of entirely one post. Halo 3. Instead of keeping it all to one or two threads memebrs feel the need to make a brand new Thread for each and every idea instead of adding it to the already existing thread. Those few threads that belong are quickly pushed off the page and it seems the Old Skool community has left, its Forum overrun by The Flood.

Zanzibar and Optimatch are full of Cheater and "Bungie do this, Bungie do that" threads. Instead of real suggestions and debates members choose to whine over topics, even those that have already been addressed, and stoop to flamming to keep themselve entertained. And now onto The Flood. Here members are given a chance to talk about absolutely anything as long as it does not break the Code of Conduct. It's filled with tons of Forum Games and Random stories, like I'd expect, but I'd also expect it to contain some intelligence. Members are given the chance to discuss almost anythign here, to an extent and I have yet to see one Intelligent Coversation and/or debate last. Those few that have been made were filled with flamers and/or Spammers and quickly fell off the first page.

The Community is Dead! The Flood has been Born!

Here comes the part where I drop the Sugar coating and tell you how it is, plain and simple. The Community, those who worked together, got along, respected one another, and understood the meaning of the word, is gone.

The Flood, a seething mass of idiocy and hipocricy has replaced it. The Community is now full of concieted -blam!-s, elitest punks, and anarchists. Instead of working with one another they choose to fight over mindless drabble. They mass in groups, shutting out the rest of the community in elitest camps, they have a total disregard for gramar and rules. Some actually get off over posting unnecessary and unwanted material and breaking the rules.

But, I should correct myself, The Community isn't dead, only transformed, into the Flood. For isn't that how you would describe this behavior? Please make no mistake, this isn't an insult to a few people, or even a group of people, this is a blatant "slap" to the face of the "entire" community.

Though, while I sit and write this I realize that it will only make notice to the few community members left, and will either fall off the radar or become a flamming ground for The Flood. So what's the point you ask? The Point had ot be made, my only hope is that someone sees this and trys to make a difference, us few community members left are giving up, after so long with no progress.

Oh yes, a few Community members still exist, though they have receeded to thier own digital hideouts and rarely venture out into the Flood. And with this I leave you, to receed back to my own digital hideout. The day "The Community" returns so shall I, untill that day: farewell Community, farewell Septagon, farewell 7th Column.

-Ancient

  • 11.07.2005 1:16 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

This is nothing new and is the natural evolution of any place with forums. The Activity come and goes.

Halo 2 is a year old soon and Bungie has yet to officially say anything about there next game.

Halo 2 is great but there is only so much to talk about for a year.

Once the next project is announced new members will join and old ones will come back to talk about it. Just give it time and this place will be bumping again.

Those of us who enjoy it will always be around.

[Edited on 11/7/2005]

  • 11.07.2005 1:21 PM PDT
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Don't any of you say that he's just a whiner trying to get attention by leaving, because it's damn true. Hell, I even fit some of the criteria that has to do with the flood and it's idiocy. This isn't elitist, because someone had to say it and I wouldn't be surprised if it's going to be said again in the future, because people will just ignore it and call him names.

  • 11.07.2005 1:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
This is nothing new and is the natural evolution of any place with forums. The Activity come and goes.

Halo 2 is a year old soon and Bungie has yet to officially say anything about there next game.

Halo 2 is great but there is only so much to talk about for a year.

Once the next project is announced new members will join and old ones will come back to talk about it. Just give it time and this place will be bumping again.

Those of us who enjoy it will always be around.


Did you even read my post? It has nothing to do with activity in the Community, it has to do with thier attitude and what they have become. I suggest you read before you post.

I think I'll stick around just long enough to see what happens to this post, then I plan to leave the main Forums for good, or until I hear something good about them.

  • 11.07.2005 1:31 PM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

I agree, mostly. You made the old days sound better then they were though. There were still idiots and such, but you have the general jist of it down. It wasn't perfect back then, but compared to what it is now it was perfect. That's my opinion, of course.

  • 11.07.2005 1:33 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

I did read your post and thats what i gathered from it all the times u said it was

Im quoting you "DEAD!"

  • 11.07.2005 1:33 PM PDT
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I have to disagree. The Flood isn't necessarily the dregs of society. In fact, I've met many of the smartest members in it. Actually, I had a five page discussion on Special Relativity and the fall of Newtonian Physics. The Flood isn't the degredation of the community in my eyes. It is just there so members can quench their insomniac, insane, and random urges to post. The place can actually yield good posts... de temps en temps. If anything should be focused on as the transformation, it should be Zanzibar and New Mombasa. The only remotely sane places left are the Septagon, occasionally the Underground, and in my eyes the Flood.

[Edited on 11/7/2005]

  • 11.07.2005 1:35 PM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

Posted by: EAGLES5
I did read your post and thats what i gathered from it all the times u said it was

Im quoting you "DEAD!"

It sounds to me like you read the words, but you didn't actually read his post. He was talking about the community there, not activity. The minds are dead. It's not that the place doesn't have enough memebrs, it's that the members don't do anything except try to be the best. There is no more sense of community here. And he's absolutely right.

  • 11.07.2005 1:36 PM PDT
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Dead in personality, intellegence, and over helpful members. Don't take it literally, it's a metaphor.

  • 11.07.2005 1:36 PM PDT

-Quaere verum.

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Chairleg Productions presents: 'Console Wars' and 'Games as Art?' (also on Halo Waypoint).

A chilling yet truthful and honest account Ancient. Of course some have relalised this a long time ago, it is good to get it out in the open.

I'm going to start by talking about chapters. I totally agree 100 % with you. They are dead and the majority of large chapters are by flooding, spamming. The few chapters that genuinly are trying to revive the 7th Column are overwhelmed and activity is near impossible.

Next to the main forums, i understand what you mean by the guides, however, i think a little more sugar coating was needed. Some are genuine, though i'm positive that some are not made for the same reason others were. With Halo 3, it is unfortunate that The Underground's description was not re-difined and now we see a drop of old skool encouragement and discussion. Tight communities are now really the only way to get through.

The way i would like to see this site is thus. It's like the economy. Sometimes there are booms, some times due to certain events, there are busts/depression. I hope that some day we can once again experience a boom time. Don't get me wrong, as Ancient points out quite correctly, membership and numbers have rocketed, but quality, in my opinion, has not.

[Edited on 11/7/2005]

  • 11.07.2005 1:37 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

It sounds to me like you read the words, but you didn't actually read his post. He was talking about the community there, not activity. The minds are dead. It's not that the place doesn't have enough memebrs, it's that the members don't do anything except try to be the best. There is no more sense of community here. And he's absolutely right.


The community and activity are the same.

You cant have one without the other.

I read his post and gave my opinion and now im getting chewed out.

Maybe hes right.

[Edited on 11/7/2005]

  • 11.07.2005 1:38 PM PDT

This site has its good times and bad times. Many old, wisemembers are being replaced by fresh,new ones. Soon, these new guys will be oldies, and things willbe cool.

  • 11.07.2005 1:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
It sounds to me like you read the words, but you didn't actually read his post. He was talking about the community there, not activity. The minds are dead. It's not that the place doesn't have enough memebrs, it's that the members don't do anything except try to be the best. There is no more sense of community here. And he's absolutely right.


The community and activity are the same.

You cant have one without the other.

I read his post and gave my opinion and now im getting chewed out.

Maybe hes right.

Sorry if it came out like that.

  • 11.07.2005 1:39 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

See we need to be nice to one another and respct there opinions on how they read the thread or else we are making this guy right turning this place into a water closet.

  • 11.07.2005 1:44 PM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

Posted by: EAGLES5
It sounds to me like you read the words, but you didn't actually read his post. He was talking about the community there, not activity. The minds are dead. It's not that the place doesn't have enough memebrs, it's that the members don't do anything except try to be the best. There is no more sense of community here. And he's absolutely right.


The community and activity are the same.

You cant have one without the other.

I read his post and gave my opinion and now im getting chewed out.

Maybe hes right.


I disagree. Community and activity are very, very far from being the same. Community, in my mind is whether or not the is that feel of a community here. There isn't. There used to be one though. You could go into the Flood and know peoples personalities- there was humour. Mods could play jokes without people screaming "abuse of power!". People respected the opinions of others. Now activity is not community. Activity is how much people post. You can have tons of activity but no community. And pelase don't try to victimize yourself. Nobody is angry here. I was trying to show you that Ancient didn't mean community in the sense that you thought he did.

  • 11.07.2005 1:45 PM PDT
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like Pimp said, activity is how much people post now. That's why we've seen several threads or posts inclining how a post counter would be a good idea.

  • 11.07.2005 1:46 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

I think we are a community.

I know you has a bungie member.

For instance i know this isnt your first account because ur net passport got deleted.

Thos of us who are active make up the community. The active members are the community, we post so much we get to know one anothers thinking.

EDIT-- Darkness I know you!!! We had PM wars!!



[Edited on 11/7/2005]

  • 11.07.2005 1:48 PM PDT
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I've been around these parts for almost eight years now...wow! Maybe I should be concerned about that...

You don't know my personality?pfft,

*Nibbles on kitten*

  • 11.07.2005 1:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: EAGLES5
I think we are a community.

I know you has a bungie member.

For instance i know this isnt your first account because ur net passport got deleted.

Thos of us who are active make up the community. The active members are the community, we post so much we get to know one anothers thinking.

EDIT-- Darkness I know you!!! We had PM wars!!


I think both you and pimp have good points. Frankly I think both you and Pimp are right, just not really seeing eye to eye.

  • 11.07.2005 1:51 PM PDT
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I've been around these parts for almost eight years now...wow! Maybe I should be concerned about that...

PM wars?I remember PMing you like once...that counts as a war?

  • 11.07.2005 2:03 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

What are you talking about we went on and on for 2 days about the history of ww2.

Then later abbout who was more conservatove
\
and then later we entered dark land with relgion.

  • 11.07.2005 2:06 PM PDT
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I've been around these parts for almost eight years now...wow! Maybe I should be concerned about that...

....What?I really don't remember anything of that...

  • 11.07.2005 2:10 PM PDT
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This isn't a chatroom, if you want to discuss PM wars do it over the PMs if you don't mind.

  • 11.07.2005 2:11 PM PDT
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I've been around these parts for almost eight years now...wow! Maybe I should be concerned about that...

ok, sorry.

  • 11.07.2005 2:12 PM PDT
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lol, no problem.

  • 11.07.2005 2:14 PM PDT

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