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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
  • Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon

Anyone else agree?

There are quite a few time gaps in TFoR, plenty enough to have everything in Reach (the game happen). And anyone who says that the UNSC should have detected the Covies coming, well since I just finished reading the book I can where you're coming from, but you have to remember that the only two times it was mentioned they detected anything they mistook the Covenant battle group for an asteroid or small planetoid at first, so the Super Carrier and Corvette in Reach could have easily gotten there without having the sensor stations detecting them.

Now there's still the problem of the ships slipping past the outer defenses, but that's still doable, and it's entirely possible that they had limited stealth technology.

A lot of the "problems" are also fixed in Halsey's Journal, haven't got to read that yet, but I plan to borrow it from my friend who got the Legendary Edition of the game.

Anyway, this is a place for intelligent discussion, so feel free to share your ideas about the "inconsistencies" created by Reach, or just discuss the rest of the cannon, that's fine too.

  • 11.12.2010 1:22 PM PDT
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My best thread evar!

1. Reach's fall was extended tenfold in the game compared to the book.

2. PoA was never on Reach.

3. Where were the Orbital MAC guns?

4. By extension of #2, Cortana couldn't have been getting a piggyback ride from N6.

5. Jorge

The list goes on, up until around the number 15.

  • 11.12.2010 1:26 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.

  • 11.12.2010 1:36 PM PDT

Could you enumerate the timeline then with everything from tfor and the game in chronological order, take into account the journal aswell.

Last i heared, it COULD possibly be done but led to some silly apparant sequence of events, such as the UNSC trying to blow john up in his new armour and wilst reach is beginning to burn and noble team is halfway through getting into halseys lab to retrieve the package. Also how the POA was groundside yet also in orbit dry dock at nearly the same time.

Also, i think the best theory about the supercarrier currently is that is slipped in very close behind the gas giant and coasted towards reach orbit via inertia/slingshot manoeuvre, then quietly descended down to an unpopulated landmass of which there were plenty on reach, used corvettes to deploy the spires piece by piece, and went into cloak and started to deploy a ground invasion force. They did all this to avoid and disable the SMACS from the inside before the main invasion force turned up, SMACs are a serious threat to covt, theyd hit them head on before and lost a fair few capital ships to single SMAC slugs, so they developed a strategy. This did NOT go unnoticed though, ONI picked up on it but kept it quiet to prevent mass hysteria, atleast untill the main fleet turned up and the jig was up. Its not crazy to suggest perhaps the supercarrier had some special stealth technology to assist with this op, after all it had spires with thus far unforseen teleportation technology at its disposal, which is pretty advanced stuff, so why not other cool/experimental tech. Also, it would be very easy to visually miss an inert 30km object drifting in from a close planetary neighbour, against the vastness and blackness of space, i should think.

I dont buy this consensus that the covt were totally incapable of adapting and changing, it just took them a long ass time cos of internal politics and stuff. Reverse engineering and copying forerunner tech in the first place would take significant intellectual chops, even if they didnt fully understand any of it.

Thats basically my theory anyway.

  • 11.12.2010 1:50 PM PDT

Its abit blinkered to think that there couldent have been an advanced strike force on reach cos it wasnt in the book, tfor was about the poa and red and blue teams, not noble teams actions.

also, we dont know what went on in orbit after the poa leaves the surface, we never see it in game. The potential for the huge space battle is not broken.

  • 11.12.2010 1:55 PM PDT


Posted by: C SEC Agent
1. Reach's fall was extended tenfold in the game compared to the book.

2. PoA was never on Reach.

3. Where were the Orbital MAC guns?

4. By extension of #2, Cortana couldn't have been getting a piggyback ride from N6.

5. Jorge

The list goes on, up until around the number 15.


I think it's the first sword base level, but Kat does mention the SMACs, I think one of them is what was supposed to have taken out the Corvette attacking Sword.

In response to #4 it was actually only a fragment of Cortana, the real Cortana was still on the Autumn, the Journal explains the "two" Cortanas thing.

#1 I don't see any problem with it being extended, and the way I see it, the Covies in the levels up 'til the Long Night of Solace is destroyed are a reconnaissance force or something, and then the main fleet arrives in system, and between the arival of the Fleet of Particular Justice in the game and Reach's fall on the 30th of August is a rather small period of time, like 1 week I believe it was.
And the book is rather vague on what is going on on Reach the whole time, the book is mostly concerned with Keyes and the Spartans and their back stories.

#2 that's the only thing that might actually be a problem, and I don't really have an answer for it other than to wait and see what Bungie or 343 does to explain it.

#5 Why is Jorge a problem? I don't see anything wrong there.

  • 11.12.2010 2:38 PM PDT

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Posted by: privet caboose
It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.

Yes. I was very surprised and disappointed by the presentation of Reach in the game. The books made it seem like it was a fortress of a planet. In the game, it was like half Harvest, half New Mombassa.

  • 11.12.2010 2:39 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

I think it's the first sword base level, but Kat does mention the SMACs, I think one of them is what was supposed to have taken out the Corvette attacking Sword.


Rage.

  • 11.12.2010 2:40 PM PDT

Posted by: AquaBlader
Soon to be breaking news:


US Coast Guard prepares for massive rescue mission after Iranian fleet sinks off shore. Reports say a small thunderstorm caused most of the ships to simply...fall apart.

Posted by: C SEC Agent
1. Reach's fall was extended tenfold in the game compared to the book.

2. PoA was never on Reach.

3. Where were the Orbital MAC guns?

4. By extension of #2, Cortana couldn't have been getting a piggyback ride from N6.

5. Jorge

The list goes on, up until around the number 15.

1. I have no problem with it.

3. Kat mentions one.

4. That was a fragment of Cortana.

5. ?

  • 11.12.2010 2:44 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan999
Posted by: privet caboose
It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.

Yes. I was very surprised and disappointed by the presentation of Reach in the game. The books made it seem like it was a fortress of a planet. In the game, it was like half Harvest, half New Mombassa.


I dont know what people expected to see tbh. A cloud of orbiting unsc ships so thick it blocks out the sun?

Most of the game is spent near the upper latitudes aswell miles away from anything, and civilian areas, ie not military installations like castle base whitch is on the equater.

  • 11.12.2010 2:49 PM PDT

╔══╦══╦═══╦╗╔╗╔╦══╦══╦╗╔╗
║╔═╩╗╔╣═══║║║╚╝║╔╗║╔╗║╚╝║
║║╔╗║║║╔╗╔╣║╚╗╔╣╠╣╣║║╠╗╔╝
║╚╝╠╝╚╣║║║║╚═╣║║╚╝║╚╝║║║
╚══╩══╩╝╚╝╚══╩╝╚══╩══╝╚╝

Posted by: Fatal Factor
I dont know what people expected to see tbh. A cloud of orbiting unsc ships so thick it blocks out the sun?
No, but I did expect it to be a planet populated solely with a military presence. The farms make sense at least. Soldiers gotta eat, and why wait for food to get shipped in from another colony. But big hyper-urban cities? That just doesn't seem right based on Reach's description from the books.

  • 11.12.2010 2:54 PM PDT


Posted by: Fatal Factor
Could you enumerate the timeline then with everything from tfor and the game in chronological order, take into account the journal aswell.

Last i heared, it COULD possibly be done but led to some silly apparant sequence of events, such as the UNSC trying to blow john up in his new armour and wilst reach is beginning to burn and noble team is halfway through getting into halseys lab to retrieve the package. Also how the POA was groundside yet also in orbit dry dock at nearly the same time.

Also, i think the best theory about the supercarrier currently is that is slipped in very close behind the gas giant and coasted towards reach orbit via inertia/slingshot manoeuvre, then quietly descended down to an unpopulated landmass of which there were plenty on reach, used corvettes to deploy the spires piece by piece, and went into cloak and started to deploy a ground invasion force. They did all this to avoid and disable the SMACS from the inside before the main invasion force turned up, SMACs are a serious threat to covt, theyd hit them head on before and lost a fair few capital ships to single SMAC slugs, so they developed a strategy. This did NOT go unnoticed though, ONI picked up on it but kept it quiet to prevent mass hysteria, atleast untill the main fleet turned up and the jig was up. Its not crazy to suggest perhaps the supercarrier had some special stealth technology to assist with this op, after all it had spires with thus far unforseen teleportation technology at its disposal, which is pretty advanced stuff, so why not other cool/experimental tech. Also, it would be very easy to visually miss an inert 30km object drifting in from a close planetary neighbour, against the vastness and blackness of space, i should think.

I dont buy this consensus that the covt were totally incapable of adapting and changing, it just took them a long ass time cos of internal politics and stuff. Reverse engineering and copying forerunner tech in the first place would take significant intellectual chops, even if they didnt fully understand any of it.

Thats basically my theory anyway.


You sir are very smart. I agree with almost everything you say, makes a lot of sense. I don't really have the time to make a full timeline of events, I probably would if I had time, but I have a lot school assignments coming up.

You are right, there are some problems trying to merge the two timelines. However, I don't really think that Ackerson trying to kill Chief is that implausible even if the full scale invasion has begun, the airship he used was armed with the same rocket system as the Scorpions have, and if the Scorpions, which are a mass-produced part of the UNSC military, I doubt their armaments would be that expensive, so their no real problem there.

I agree, they aren't completely stupid, and we don't know their full technological limits, so the Super Carrier could have easily been equipped with loads of experimental tech or tech the Covies were field testing, like Spires.

Yeah, the Long Night of Solace and it's forces looked like something they could easily repel, so it makes sense to me for ONI to have kept it quiet, or as quiet as they could.
Indeed it would be, especially if you take into consideration that it's Reach and there'd be things seen flying and/or moving around in space all the time.

  • 11.12.2010 3:04 PM PDT


Posted by: Fatal Factor

Posted by: OrderedComa

I think it's the first sword base level, but Kat does mention the SMACs, I think one of them is what was supposed to have taken out the Corvette attacking Sword.


Rage.


What?

  • 11.12.2010 3:08 PM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.


Oh dear caboose.
Why cant you accept that the story could have just Re-conned?

  • 11.12.2010 3:12 PM PDT

C Dickson
Kickin -blam- and taking names
Social Infection

Social infection

I find it hard to belive that jun emile and carter are in the came they are all the first generation of spartan III's which all of them were supposedly (probably not the right spelling) killed in operation PROMETHEUS

  • 11.12.2010 3:19 PM PDT

Well thanks for the kind words. Most of my posts go unnoticed.

Its plausible for ackerson to want to blow john up cos he has a personal vendetta, but on the same day as john is spose to go into cryo for a last ditch mission to capture covt leadership to try and save the species. Seems abit contrived.

I dont kow what you mean by scorpian rockets, scorpians dont have rockets.

I thought someone else would have tried to make a new timeline of the fall of reach by now or attempted to to show how silly it all is. Mabye theres one on halopedia or something i dunno.

  • 11.12.2010 3:20 PM PDT
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As far as I'm concerned everything that happened in the books, happened in the game as well.

  • 11.12.2010 3:21 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.


Oh dear caboose.
Why cant you accept that the story could have just Re-conned?


The word you're looking for is retconned. And you've just said it, Reach was simply a massive retcon. You know why things get retconned? Because they contradict canon, the game contradicts canon, it is a retcon over the books.

And anyone with the slightest care for Halo canon shouldn't have to accept a giant middle finger at a decade's worth of work.

  • 11.12.2010 3:23 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Fatal Factor

Posted by: OrderedComa

I think it's the first sword base level, but Kat does mention the SMACs, I think one of them is what was supposed to have taken out the Corvette attacking Sword.


Rage.


What?


Oh its just that i spent a significant part of another thread explaining why i believe its not a SMAC round but a ship MAC round which ko's the corvette, for various reasons and no one seemed to believe me lol. Suffice to say firing 3000 tonnes of tungsten into the atmosphere at 50% lightspeed is bad news for friend and foe alike over a very wide area.

  • 11.12.2010 3:25 PM PDT


Posted by: Fatal Factor

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Fatal Factor

Posted by: OrderedComa

I think it's the first sword base level, but Kat does mention the SMACs, I think one of them is what was supposed to have taken out the Corvette attacking Sword.


Rage.


What?


Oh its just that i spent a significant part of another thread explaining why i believe its not a SMAC round but a ship MAC round which ko's the corvette, for various reasons and no one seemed to believe me lol. Suffice to say firing 3000 tonnes of tungsten into the atmosphere at 50% lightspeed is bad news for friend and foe alike over a very wide area.


Ooooh, you mean in Caboose's thread? I saw that, I don't say one way or the other, I just remember Kat mentioning SMACs in that cut-scene. It could be either one, I frankly don't think it really looked like something that a SMAC would have fired, it looked more like the way the MAC rounds appeared in Reach and Halo Wars.

  • 11.12.2010 3:36 PM PDT

*Silloin kun näyttää siltä että ei ole mitään hätää niin tulee hälytyskellojen soida
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Reach fell on August 30th
Yup.

That's the day the Covenant found Reach
Not true.

  • 11.12.2010 3:49 PM PDT
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I say it just moved canon around a bit. Paticularly with regards to the length of the battle. FoR can still happen, it just takes a little longer to get everythign done.

  • 11.12.2010 3:49 PM PDT


Posted by: C SEC Agent
1. Reach's fall was extended tenfold in the game compared to the book.

2. PoA was never on Reach.

3. Where were the Orbital MAC guns?

4. By extension of #2, Cortana couldn't have been getting a piggyback ride from N6.

5. Jorge

The list goes on, up until around the number 15.


3) They pwned the first Corvette

4) She was a copy of the real Cortana, not the actual Cortana

5) a "revitilized" S-II that washed out but didn't die.

the answers go on.

  • 11.12.2010 3:50 PM PDT


Posted by: Fatal Factor
Well thanks for the kind words. Most of my posts go unnoticed.

Its plausible for ackerson to want to blow john up cos he has a personal vendetta, but on the same day as john is spose to go into cryo for a last ditch mission to capture covt leadership to try and save the species. Seems abit contrived.

I dont kow what you mean by scorpian rockets, scorpians dont have rockets.

I thought someone else would have tried to make a new timeline of the fall of reach by now or attempted to to show how silly it all is. Mabye theres one on halopedia or something i dunno.


I think the Autumn tried to leave the day after the test, not a hundred percent sure, but people do all kinds of crazy things when they're holding a grudge like Ackerson.

I believe Halopedia might have a full timeline, I think I saw one in another post about canon.

I can't remember what they're actually called, rockets was the only word I could think of that kinda fit the Scorpion's amunition.

  • 11.12.2010 3:55 PM PDT

Yeah she mentioned the LACK of SMAC support, so its evidence against SMACs.

  • 11.12.2010 4:04 PM PDT