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  • Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
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  • Senior Mythic Member

The entire Novel was not "scrapped" parts of it are still valid and were not overwritten by Reach quit over reacting

  • 01.22.2011 4:13 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe


To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?


Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....

  • 01.22.2011 4:16 PM PDT


Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: hotshot revan II
1)Somehow during the battle when the UNSC desperatley needed every ship they can have to combat the covies and yet they use a few of them just to being down the Autumn?Doesn't makes any sense


Posted by: OrderedComa
1. I believe that Kit probably wasn't talking Ship of the Line combat sort of ships, probably something small and like those rocket tugships we saw getting the Autumn off the ground.


Pretty much this.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
-No just no.
It hasn't anything to do with just dates.
Explain me how Halsey was talking to the sII's during the operation red flag briefing on the 27th of august.

According to Jun Red Team was reassigned to civilian bla bla on the 23th of August.Why continue with the red flag briefing if you are in the middle of war?

And SWORD base was occupied by the covies at the 23th as well.Said by Jun as well

So please tell me how did Halsey talked with her sII's on the 27th if she was stuck in sword base between the 14th and 29th of August???


I'd probably go with video communication. Pull them from their duties for a short bit, brief them on the the objective and let them go.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
-The entire vierry territoy was at war on the 12th,it's the size of a large continent.You think civilians wouldn't have noticed that?


Considering that the Viery region was nothing more then wastelands...that's a simple cover up.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
-The supercarrier destroying the UNSC fleet at Reach,something the civilians should have noticed as well
-New alexandira
-..many more


Of course people are gonna notice that, especially at the end of LNoS.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
ONI couldn't have kept it a secret,but why not evacuate civilians?Last time i checked UNSC would always evacuate civilans if a planet get's attacked.And the cole protocl has not been used??Why????Give me one good reason for all of this.


You just took out an assault carrier (or whatever the frack it's called) along with anything else on the ground. Pretty sure one would be feeling mighty victorious at that point. What's the point of evacing civvies when you "won"?

And I was under the impression Winter Contingency was higher priority then the Cole Protocol.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
This games contradicts with all forms of previous canon,even with Halo ce and with the journal.
This game is a total disaster.


Doesn't contradict Halo CE. It fits in perfectly. It does however, screw things up in the book.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Why do bungie fans don't admit this,Reach wtfpwned the Halo canon.


It wtfpwned the last bit of FoR and the beginning of FS. Everything else is intact. We're gonna have to assume that Jun dies before reaching Castle Base, which would save GoO. I won't take legendary commentary as canon IMO.

I willing admit that yes, this game has screwed up canon. I won't argue against that. But it's fixable. Fix the dates. Fix how encounters went down. It's gonna be a messy job yes and people aren't gonna like it but in the end...it'll work.

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: kit_103
True, I have problem with a month long invasion but starting said attack somewhere in mid-August? I would have been fine with that IMO.
The actual invasion started in Mid-August. The Covenant encountered before the ending cutscene of the level Long Night of Solace were more or less an expeditionary force.


True true. Thanks for the catch.



I am, for the most part, in agreement with most of what you are saying. I suppose my title is not entirely accurate, since things will have to be reworked, it was more for an attention grab. The previous sequence of events has been contradicted and has to be reworked, but it is not so broken that nothing can ever be done to fix it. And it most certainly is not at the point where either TFoR or Reach must be declared non-canon, it's just a mess that will take a bit of effort to straighten out.

And Coma, I like you already. ^^

Haha, thanks, you seem pretty cool yourself :)

  • 01.22.2011 4:23 PM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: daman825
What it comes down to is this. If bungie made all the Spartans look and act the same, and made reach fall in a day. The campaign would have been crap. You wouldn't be able to distinguish between the Spartans unless they were talking, and you wouldn't be able to see as many locations like space and stuff.

They could have made them professional. Much like all Spartans-II and III prior.

The campaign even when stretched out was just lacking any real desperateness and helplessness. The sense of urgency is never present. I'm looking for the quality of the time spent in Reach not the quantity.

The "identical" Spartans could also take off their helmets, much like the intro of the package in Halo Legends to distinguish them.

Locations like space and stuff?

You mean the 15 minuite dragged out space event in which you shoot banshees and a frigate engine?
The one that's been marketed for months on advertisements as being a innovative change to Halo's gameplay. Woah Space Battles!!! YAY.....

yeah you said it. Stuff. We sure wanted to fight in a farm and oh and then a shiny city. Great Stuff the kind of things great games all encompass. I'm sure Halo:Ce had as much variety with it's jungles, snow terrain, deserts covenant ships, forerunner structures, flood infected maps. All brand new concepts, just like Reach right?

Please, if you're gonna bring in the "what it come down to" at least bring in attributes seen previously which could supplement the game. Instead of argue against any possible further downfalls. Afterall we all wanted the game to be great. It fell short of what 1, 2 and 3 achieved in the gaming community. Not just campaign wise, but that's a separate issue and slightly off-topic.

LOL "the campaign would have been crap" you have obviously not thought about how relating any of the substance with the novels to the game, could have supplemented the story.Big Time.
Compared to what? fighting in a city the whole time because they didnt have time to go anywhere else? Sounds fun, seven hours in one environment. And the Spartans are professional, some slight changes had to be made to give them personality. I mean really, you cant honestly be suggesting that reach would have been better with six master chiefs (No emotion and filled with one liners).

[Edited on 01.22.2011 4:45 PM PST]

  • 01.22.2011 4:44 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: AlphaZero X

Posted by: Beowolfe


To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?


Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....

Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face.

Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted.

To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.

[Edited on 01.22.2011 5:25 PM PST]

  • 01.22.2011 5:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: AlphaZero X

Posted by: Beowolfe


To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?


Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....

Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face.

Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted.

To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.
emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes.

Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.

[Edited on 01.22.2011 5:35 PM PST]

  • 01.22.2011 5:33 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe
How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.


How you claim to understand the details for a Spartan's psychological profile, we will never know.

  • 01.22.2011 5:44 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: daman825

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: AlphaZero X

Posted by: Beowolfe


To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?


Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....

Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face.

Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted.

To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.
emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes.

Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.

You just don't get it. Have you read the novels?
Do you understand the nature of special-force groups?
The discipline involved?
In Halo, Spartans were as close to perfect soldiers as a human could be. Emile could pass off as an ODST at best, so could Jun. Hell, buck would be more fitting as a Spartan.
Not just in combat ability.But in personality and trait.

In the end it's just a game, but it's a real shame that Bungie had to cater them this way so they could appeal to the casual audience.I see you have no issue with it, that's fine, that's your view.

But i would rather follow a story that is consistent with its themes. The legendary characterization of a Spartan in Halo Canon had not been consistent with Reach. That's all.

  • 01.22.2011 5:46 PM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen

You just don't get it. Have you read the novels?
Do you understand the nature of special-force groups?
The discipline involved?
In Halo, Spartans were as close to perfect soldiers as a human could be. Emile could pass off as an ODST at best, so could Jun. Hell, buck would be more fitting as a Spartan.
Not just in combat ability.But in personality and trait.



Kurt's emphatic qualities to other Spartans and UNSC soldiers could be seen as a detrimental personality trait. He feels compassion, which could drastically affect his reasoning on the battlefield. Yet he stayed in. And wound up leading the SIII's. No way he should be a Spartan. See how easy it is?

Spartan IIIs are not the Spartan IIs that were in Halo. The criteria for them was far less stringent than SIIs, so personality traits are less of a concern anyways, since SIII's were built to do one thing. Die on missions and be replaced. Quickly.

  • 01.22.2011 6:04 PM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: daman825

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: AlphaZero X

Posted by: Beowolfe


To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?


Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....

Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face.

Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted.

To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.
emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes.

Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.

You just don't get it. Have you read the novels?
Do you understand the nature of special-force groups?
The discipline involved?
In Halo, Spartans were as close to perfect soldiers as a human could be. Emile could pass off as an ODST at best, so could Jun. Hell, buck would be more fitting as a Spartan.
Not just in combat ability.But in personality and trait.

In the end it's just a game, but it's a real shame that Bungie had to cater them this way so they could appeal to the casual audience.I see you have no issue with it, that's fine, that's your view.

But i would rather follow a story that is consistent with its themes. The legendary characterization of a Spartan in Halo Canon had not been consistent with Reach. That's all.


The portrayal of Spartans in the novels and the games have never agreed, the games the Spartans are all much more human, and certainly not emotionless robots. For instance, Master Chief, in the books he is pretty much a blank slate with absolutely no personality saying sir all the time to any superior, whereas in the games he is much more relaxed, respectful, but definitely relaxed around his superiors, like with Lord Hood he almost added "sir" as an after thought. And he spouts off oneliners giving a sense of humor of sorts, something he never does in the books.

You are reading far too much into this, yes, you may not like the game, that's fine, but don't go touting what you believe and hold as an opinion as the absolute fact.

[Edited on 01.22.2011 6:08 PM PST]

  • 01.22.2011 6:07 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: AlphaZero X

Posted by: ninjakenzen

You just don't get it. Have you read the novels?
Do you understand the nature of special-force groups?
The discipline involved?
In Halo, Spartans were as close to perfect soldiers as a human could be. Emile could pass off as an ODST at best, so could Jun. Hell, buck would be more fitting as a Spartan.
Not just in combat ability.But in personality and trait.



Kurt's emphatic qualities to other Spartans and UNSC soldiers could be seen as a detrimental personality trait. He feels compassion, which could drastically affect his reasoning on the battlefield. Yet he stayed in. And wound up leading the SIII's. No way he should be a Spartan. See how easy it is?

Spartan IIIs are not the Spartan IIs that were in Halo. The criteria for them was far less stringent than SIIs, so personality traits are less of a concern anyways, since SIII's were built to do one thing. Die on missions and be replaced. Quickly.

Posted by: OrderedComa
The portrayal of Spartans in the novels and the games have never agreed, the games the Spartans are all much more human, and certainly not emotionless robots. For instance, Master Chief, in the books he is pretty much a blank slate with absolutely no personality saying sir all the time to any superior, whereas in the games he is much more relaxed, respectful, but definitely relaxed around his superiors, like with Lord Hood he almost added "sir" as an after thought. And he spouts off oneliners giving a sense of humor of sorts, something he never does in the books.

You are reading far too much into this, yes, you may not like the game, that's fine, but don't go touting what you believe and hold as an opinion as the absolute fact.


I guess you guys might have a point, i might have been looking too much into this. However i just can't seem to put myself into believing that a solider with a lifetime of training will behave how noble team behaved. I truly cringe when i see Jorge leaping to protect that civillian with the zealots arrive.
How Jun's chattiness annoys me during the nightfall. How Halsey behaves around Noble Team and how Noble Team interact with each other.

It's the little things i guess. But yeah, it's just my opinion in the end. But i can't draw a line between a Marine and a Spartan anymore. Beyond the suit and physical characteristics.

  • 01.22.2011 6:33 PM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen

I guess you guys might have a point, i might have been looking too much into this. However i just can't seem to put myself into believing that a solider with a lifetime of training will behave how noble team behaved. I truly cringe when i see Jorge leaping to protect that civillian with the zealots arrive.
How Jun's chattiness annoys me during the nightfall. How Halsey behaves around Noble Team and how Noble Team interact with each other.



No worries, just a matter of perspective, and we all have one. Jorge could be emotionally conflicted because he was born on Reach. It's personal for him.
As for Halsey, I dunno, based on her personality from the novels, I think she was more curiously amused at Noble's bravado. When Halsey says "Are you threatening me?" to Carter, I took it that she was slightly amused that he would challenge her at all, and because he did she gave him a deferred bit of respect-she didn't push the issue.

  • 01.22.2011 6:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: daman825

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: AlphaZero X

Posted by: Beowolfe


To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?


Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....

Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face.

Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted.

To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.
emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes.

Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.


And I will point to his failure of a death as proof, but I've argued that far too many times and frankly I'm sick of it. I concede that a large part is based on my own perspective, clearly one of the minority, but even then Halo: Reach stands as one of the most non-sensical campaign stories for a Halo game so far.

Alpha, nice sarcastic comment, totally made your point there...

  • 01.22.2011 8:24 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: daman825

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: AlphaZero X

Posted by: Beowolfe


To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?


Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....

Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face.

Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted.

To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.
emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes.

Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.


And I will point to his failure of a death as proof, but I've argued that far too many times and frankly I'm sick of it. I concede that a large part is based on my own perspective, clearly one of the minority, but even then Halo: Reach stands as one of the most non-sensical campaign stories for a Halo game so far.

Alpha, nice sarcastic comment, totally made your point there...
sarcastic comment? he does what hes told throughout the campaign. And if i remember right, he never questions his orders.

  • 01.22.2011 8:42 PM PDT

:P

Most of Halsey's journal explains the canon quite well.

  • 01.22.2011 8:47 PM PDT
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  • Senior Mythic Member

I like these chatty spartans. besides why would jorge not spring to protect a civilian.

  • 01.22.2011 9:02 PM PDT

I really wish that you spelled canon wrong... :(

[Edited on 01.22.2011 10:49 PM PST]

  • 01.22.2011 10:48 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: daman825

[/quote] sarcastic comment? he does what hes told throughout the campaign. And if i remember right, he never questions his orders.

Sarcastic comment was referring to Alpha, not you. Sure, Emile didn't question his orders in game, but that's probably because he had under 20 lines in the entire game. Still doesn't stop his death from being the proof that he doesn't make a good Spartan.

*edit: much less make a good Noble Team member.

[Edited on 01.22.2011 11:05 PM PST]

  • 01.22.2011 11:04 PM PDT

in halo two, they mention the poa fleeing the planet in the opening sequence, so im pree sure that it was on if not in the orbit of reach

  • 01.22.2011 11:19 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By: hotshot revan II
-There are two scenerios with this:

1)Somehow during the battle when the UNSC desperatley needed every ship they can have to combat the covies and yet they use a few of them just to being down the Autumn?Doesn't makes any sense

2)Most likely what happened in the game:The autumn never fought in space combat it was all the time on ground(Halsey said on the 29th that autumn was already waiting)
.This ruins canon as well because who did dropped blue team at the spacestation?What happened with Red Team?....
Linda doesn't dies,James neither,no Red team jump,....

Canon=destroyed


1. I believe that Kit probably wasn't talking Ship of the Line combat sort of ships, probably something small and like those rocket tugships we saw getting the Autumn off the ground.

2. Halsey did not say it was already waiting for them, she it will be awaiting their arrival. If it was on the ground all along then (which I highly doubt) then Red Team simply got to the generators a different way, and all those except the survivors in FS died/went MIA defending them, nothing ruined there. If the Circumference Op never happened, then Linda either dies a different way, or just doesn't die at all and is put with Red Team along with James.

-No just no.
It hasn't anything to do with just dates.
Explain me how Halsey was talking to the sII's during the operation red flag briefing on the 27th of august. And SWORD base was occupied by the covies at the 23th as well.Said by Jun as well.

So please tell me how did Halsey talked with her sII's on the 27th if she was stuck in sword base between the 14th and 29th of August???


Video Conference? :P
But seriously, either Red Flag briefing didn't happen, or it was earlier than the book said.

Jun never mentions anything about SWORD Base except his exclamation about "The Covenant own it now!" when they're told about the Torch and Burn Op.

The month long battle is BS.How could +150 ships survive a covie fleet(314-750 ships) for a month and ONI couldn't have kept the invasion as secret for a month for the following reasons

-The covenant glassed the citys around the circular lake during the 14th of august,this can be observed in the lnos level .
-The entire vierry territoy was at war on the 12th,it's the size of a large continent.You think civilians wouldn't have noticed that?
-The supercarrier destroying the UNSC fleet at Reach,something the civilians should have noticed as well
-New alexandira
-..many more

ONI couldn't have kept it a secret,but why not evacuate civilians?Last time i checked UNSC would always evacuate civilans if a planet get's attacked.And the cole protocl has not been used??Why????Give me one good reason for all of this.

And what's the ponit again of red flag briefing if the godamn covies were fighting above your head.

This games contradicts with all forms of previous canon,even with Halo ce and with the journal.
This game is a total disaster.


They do not last a month against 300-something ships, you're right about that. They last two weeks, last I checked a month was four weeks. The whole 750+ ships was an error, it's still 300-something Covie ships.

And as I have said quite a few times before, if it was kept secret at all, it was only until the Long Night of Solace was revealed.

Why create mass-panic and hysteria if it's only a handful of ships that can easily be dispatched, by saying the Covenant are on Reach?

What pray tell, does it conflict with CE about? You just pulled that statement out of your ass didn't you? And it can't contradict the Journal either, as the whole point of it was to explain questions raised by Reach, pulled that one out of your ass too didn't you?

Kit is right, you are overreacting.



1)The autumn was in the middle of combat in space,if some unarmed vessels arrive to bring the autumn to aszod,you think the covies will just stay and watch?No they would have blasted thos ships out of orbit because the entire UNSC fleet was nearly obliterated when the autumn was about to escape.

And i really think that in that game,the autumn never fought in space but stayed on ground all the time.If this is true then blue team couldn't have fought in space,red team wouldn't have had a disaster crash.

2)No

Halsey:...Perhaps more.You are to take her to the UNSC ship-breaking yards in Aszod.There,you will find a Halycon-class cruiser waiting to get her off planet

Seems like the autumn is already there unless Halsey could magically predict the autumn succesfully landing there with no problem

Auntie Dot:UNSC cruiser,Pillar of autumn is awaiting your arrival.

Looks like tha autumn was already on Reach at ht end of the 29th or the beginning of the 30th.In the books tha autumn was in space preparing to leave the system(prophet hunt)

-Nope according to the fall of reach and even Dr Halsey's journal,Halsey talked to her spartans face to face and not a video conference.The red breifing did happen,but like i said before i guess bungie ingored the journal(typical).

Remember the cutscene of the sabre docking into the anchor 9?You see plasmabombardement,one of those explosions was near SWORD and auntie dot said this:

"There is nothing you can do for Halsey and the others inside SWORD base."

Halsey couldn't have escaped sword when the area had been glassed.

Jun:SWORD?The covenant own it now."

The covenant contolled sword base,Halsey couldn't have escaped it.The game contradicts with the journal and the books.So why putting that journal into the Reach editions if both contradict eachother?

I get the feeling that Bungie ingores the halo canon from other authors and think their own vision is canon.They have no rights to do that.Microsoft and 343 own Halo and not Bungie,so why change canon without asking 343 first?

Look what Bungie says:

"We did take some liberty," said Lehto. "In the book, I believe the Pillar of Autumn is in orbit at a docking station. We talked to [Eric] Nylund [the author of "The Fall of Reach"] about the whole event structure and we got the chronology of it down to where we felt comfortable with the little bends we were taking to make sure it worked best for the game and best for our game's fiction. We've had discrepancies with Nylund
on what we believe is canon and what should be made sacred in the canon. But that's always the case when you have others outside of Bungie building the fiction for the "Halo
" universe."


hahahaha,sorry for laughing but read this.Bungie say they only talked with Nylund about this and not 343.Last time i checked microsoft and 343 owned Halo and the story bible and not bungie.So why did bungie said "Bungie's canon".This is a huge confirmation that they said -blam!- you to the halo canon(excluding their works),Eric nylund and 343 industries.


The story of the book was far far better then the game's.Most of the halo fans will agree on this.


-The 750 ships comes from Lord Hoods quote and the new fall of reach.And as Holland says,the covie fleet arrived at the 14th.Seems like 150 inferior UNSC ships were fighting 300-750
superior ships.Weird how did the UNSC survived that long?Did they had Forerunner ships?*sarcasm*

An inferior outnumbered outgunned fleet could not survive the slaughter of a massive covie fleet for weeks.One salvo of that fleet would decimate the UNSC fleet.But again it's bungie people who don't give a -blam!- about the fiction.

What happened with them,they were so good during the halo trilogy but now...


-They couldn't have kept it a secret till the supercarrier show.An entire massive continent was at war.

http://www.halopedian.com/images/b/b5/Viery.jpg


The largest citys of Reach are located at those circular lakes and as seen in that picture there was war in the citys as well.Just face it the cvivilians know it.And according to the books the arrival of the covies on the 30th was a surprise.


-Massive panic?It's the goddamn Covenant empire with fleets numbering in thousands and with ships that can travel at +900 light years a day.Any covenant fleet could travel in a matter of hours in the UNSC teriroty and can send reinforcements in a matter of hours.
Why didn't they avacuated the 700 million civilians?They know that any covenant fleet could arrive in a matter of hours.So they risk the death of all civilians because they stupidly belive that the covies wouldn't send reinforcements soon?
(het were lucky that the covies waited to long to send a large fleet,stupid plot shield)

Seems the UNSC did the wrong decision as everyone on Reach died except a dozen UNSC warships escaped the onslaught.

UNSC and Covenant jsut became the margest retards in sciencefiction history thanks to bungie.

-It conflicts with CE because cortana didn't knew who the forerunners are in Halo ce but in Reach she absorbes massive amounts of Forerunner knowledge.


Just face it Bungie ruined everything and you guys can't admit it.Even marvus letho admitted it in that interview,they even didn't asked 343 industires the owners of the halo canon and think that "their canon" is higher above all of the others.

The reason they contradicted the books is because they think they might make the game story far better .To bad they failed as most halo fans will agree that the Reach story isn't better then the previous games.The lack of massive battle scope,poor writing,...

And yes i'm overreacting my apoligies for that

[Edited on 01.23.2011 4:30 AM PST]

  • 01.23.2011 4:19 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: hotshot revan II
1)Somehow during the battle when the UNSC desperatley needed every ship they can have to combat the covies and yet they use a few of them just to being down the Autumn?Doesn't makes any sense


Posted by: OrderedComa
1. I believe that Kit probably wasn't talking Ship of the Line combat sort of ships, probably something small and like those rocket tugships we saw getting the Autumn off the ground.


Pretty much this.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
-No just no.
It hasn't anything to do with just dates.
Explain me how Halsey was talking to the sII's during the operation red flag briefing on the 27th of august.

According to Jun Red Team was reassigned to civilian bla bla on the 23th of August.Why continue with the red flag briefing if you are in the middle of war?

And SWORD base was occupied by the covies at the 23th as well.Said by Jun as well

So please tell me how did Halsey talked with her sII's on the 27th if she was stuck in sword base between the 14th and 29th of August???


I'd probably go with video communication. Pull them from their duties for a short bit, brief them on the the objective and let them go.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
-The entire vierry territoy was at war on the 12th,it's the size of a large continent.You think civilians wouldn't have noticed that?


Considering that the Viery region was nothing more then wastelands...that's a simple cover up.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
-The supercarrier destroying the UNSC fleet at Reach,something the civilians should have noticed as well
-New alexandira
-..many more


Of course people are gonna notice that, especially at the end of LNoS.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
ONI couldn't have kept it a secret,but why not evacuate civilians?Last time i checked UNSC would always evacuate civilans if a planet get's attacked.And the cole protocl has not been used??Why????Give me one good reason for all of this.


You just took out an assault carrier (or whatever the frack it's called) along with anything else on the ground. Pretty sure one would be feeling mighty victorious at that point. What's the point of evacing civvies when you "won"?

And I was under the impression Winter Contingency was higher priority then the Cole Protocol.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
This games contradicts with all forms of previous canon,even with Halo ce and with the journal.
This game is a total disaster.


Doesn't contradict Halo CE. It fits in perfectly. It does however, screw things up in the book.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Why do bungie fans don't admit this,Reach wtfpwned the Halo canon.


It wtfpwned the last bit of FoR and the beginning of FS. Everything else is intact. We're gonna have to assume that Jun dies before reaching Castle Base, which would save GoO. I won't take legendary commentary as canon IMO.

I willing admit that yes, this game has screwed up canon. I won't argue against that. But it's fixable. Fix the dates. Fix how encounters went down. It's gonna be a messy job yes and people aren't gonna like it but in the end...it'll work.

Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: kit_103
True, I have problem with a month long invasion but starting said attack somewhere in mid-August? I would have been fine with that IMO.
The actual invasion started in Mid-August. The Covenant encountered before the ending cutscene of the level Long Night of Solace were more or less an expeditionary force.


True true. Thanks for the catch.

And Coma, I like you already. ^^



-Explained in my previous post

-I don't think you read the journal or the books or else you would have known that Halsey talked to the spartans face to face.

-No vierry was home to the largest citys on Reach around the circular lake

-They should have noticed that at the beginning of the vierry battle and even sword base attack.I have to remind you that the covies attacked on the 30th as a surprise attack.

-Indeed,except that cortana in Halo ce didn't knew anything about the forerunners till she accesed the contol room,but in Reach she got access to a large forerunner structure with knowledge of their entire civilisation,my ass.

-I have no problem with Jun surviving and yes you are right but it also contradicts the journal.

They will have to sacrifise alot of things to blend the 2 together.

I personally enjoyed the old fall of reach far more then this one.The new one doesn't makes any sense

And sorry for my overeacting behavior in this thread guys

  • 01.23.2011 4:27 AM PDT
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Iam enjoying Halo Reach and revisiting some past Bungie games, iam a big fan of Bungie and their online community.


Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.


There are two aproaches to look at this from, Bungie broke the cannon wiht the edited events and timeline or that Halo Reachs cannon can be edited because its Bungies game and is not part of the novel cannon. I however aproache this in the same way as Private Caboose the game is very different to the book.

  • 01.23.2011 5:35 AM PDT

I want to weigh in on the conversation. I'll first like to state that I haven't read the books, so please bare with me as what I have to say is simple and I hope can come across as understandable.

Retailing of the events on Reach should have been expected to be retconned because rarely does any form of media that retails a story from the original tend to do every thing in the exact same fashion. It's also worth noting that the book, Halo: Fall of Reach, was written by some one who was never part of Bungie or had anything to do with any of the story writing, telling and production in the games (which to me makes the book nothing more than official fanfiction commissioned and authorized by Bungie.) It really doesn't help to make sense of it all or get upset. It's a different way to tell the story, it's something to deal with.

  • 01.23.2011 6:33 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Sora Ai
I want to weigh in on the conversation. I'll first like to state that I haven't read the books, so please bare with me as what I have to say is simple and I hope can come across as understandable.

Retailing of the events on Reach should have been expected to be retconned because rarely does any form of media that retails a story from the original tend to do every thing in the exact same fashion. It's also worth noting that the book, Halo: Fall of Reach, was written by some one who was never part of Bungie or had anything to do with any of the story writing, telling and production in the games (which to me makes the book nothing more than official fanfiction commissioned and authorized by Bungie.) It really doesn't help to make sense of it all or get upset. It's a different way to tell the story, it's something to deal with.


Eric Nylund got the halo story bible,and he is the one who wrote story of the UNSC,rebels,spartans,...all bungie did is writing the story plot of the halo trilogy.

And besides in that logic we can call bungie's work fanficxtion as well because microsoft own Halo and not Bungie.
343 industries has the story bible now,they say what canon is or not and bungie completely ignored them wrote their own stupid story.

I think it's bad what bungie did

Books are canon,if the books were truly fanfiction then why does bungie uses the spartan III program,as they appeared the ghosts of onyx a books from eric nylund.

Seems like bungie uses elements from halo books and opther things and yet they say -blam!- you to it.

I'm happy that they won't touch Halo anymore at least 343 industries respects the Halo EU.

  • 01.23.2011 6:52 AM PDT

@hotshot revan II
Unless I'm mistaken, the games came before the books. I understand your point where Eric created the story bible, but that's usually at the behest of who commissions him to do so. Bungie had ideals that they basically told him to flesh out. In the end, things like the Spartan II and III project were of Bungie's ideals, fleshed out by Eric. However when you play the games, there's no ideal that there are different types of Spartans... (Unless there's something in some of the hidden things I've yet to find. Forgive me, I've only played Halo 1,2,3 and Reach. No Wars or ODST yet.)

Also, I consider books to be authorized 'fanfiction'. It's just a way I view it, personal view. Can't stress that enough cause I'm sure no one here see it as the same. My main point though was stating that it was to be expected that the game would not follow the events exactly as they unfolded in the book, generally for the sake of keeping gameplay engaging.

One person mentioned they cringed when Jorge rose to protect Sara at Sword Base. Emile replies that he forget's what he is. What people feel about Bungie attempting to humanize Spartan is divided, I didn't mind it so much. Seemed to be the only Spartan who gave an actual damn. And how ironically that he's the only Noble who's a Spartan II. But I suppose that is also irrelevant to the actual topic at hand.

  • 01.23.2011 7:12 AM PDT