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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
  • Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon


Posted by: OrderedComa
I haven't seen the Legendary Commentary, so I wouldn't know what they said, but it does still fit perfectly, there is nothing ruined at all, and anyway, it's Bungie's story, and they're allowed to change it as much as they want.


Oh by all means they're allowed to change canon. But as consumers we are more that within our rights to call them on it. Why did they feel the need to replace the canon created by the novel and replace it with a sub par video-game story? Why haven't we been given an explanation stating their reasoning for basically turning one entire book into fan-fiction? And most importantly where do they get the gall to state that the canon lines up perfectly and then continue to verbally -blam!-e(synonym for self pleasuring) each other about how Bungie is one of the few companies that cares about its expanded universe.

Only small details were changed, and what was changed doesn't affect the greater story at all. Being an amateur writer I know how the evolution of a story works, small things change all the time.

Yes and with small things its fine. But in-case you've missed these last three pages Reach retcon's a lot more than small things.

- The Covenant arriving on Reach almost a full month before the battle is supposed to take place.

- The Super macs playing hide and seek on us. Would have been real handy for when "the whole damn Covenant fleet," shows up.

- The PoA being on the surface, wasn't it supposed to be ready to go for the mission to capture the prophets.

- The Circumfurance never happening because there is no way any data that sensitive would have been left around for the better part of a month, meaning...

- James doesn't go MIA, when his t-pack explodes.

- Linda doesn't die.

- Sgt. Johnson and his S&D team are never there. Or if they still are they aren't picked up.

- Red team never goes ground side in the Pelican resulting in numerous injuries and several casualties.

- And so on and so forth...

Now try and tell me all they retconned was little things.

  • 11.13.2010 8:58 PM PDT


Posted by: Admonitor

Posted by: OrderedComa
I haven't seen the Legendary Commentary, so I wouldn't know what they said, but it does still fit perfectly, there is nothing ruined at all, and anyway, it's Bungie's story, and they're allowed to change it as much as they want.


Oh by all means they're allowed to change canon. But as consumers we are more that within our rights to call them on it. Why did they feel the need to replace the canon created by the novel and replace it with a sub par video-game story? Why haven't we been given an explanation stating their reasoning for basically turning one entire book into fan-fiction? And most importantly where do they get the gall to state that the canon lines up perfectly and then continue to verbally -blam!-e(synonym for self pleasuring) each other about how Bungie is one of the few companies that cares about its expanded universe.

Only small details were changed, and what was changed doesn't affect the greater story at all. Being an amateur writer I know how the evolution of a story works, small things change all the time.

Yes and with small things its fine. But in-case you've missed these last three pages Reach retcon's a lot more than small things.

- The Covenant arriving on Reach almost a full month before the battle is supposed to take place.

- The Super macs playing hide and seek on us. Would have been real handy for when "the whole damn Covenant fleet," shows up.

- The PoA being on the surface, wasn't it supposed to be ready to go for the mission to capture the prophets.

- The Circumfurance never happening because there is no way any data that sensitive would have been left around for the better part of a month, meaning...

- James doesn't go MIA, when his t-pack explodes.

- Linda doesn't die.

- Sgt. Johnson and his S&D team are never there. Or if they still are they aren't picked up.

- Red team never goes ground side in the Pelican resulting in numerous injuries and several casualties.

- And so on and so forth...

Now try and tell me all they retconned was little things.

Technically, Linda doesn't "die".

But everything in this post is completely valid, and the explanations suggested by members of this forum usually fall apart, or simply raise more questions. I really want nothing more than for SOMEONE at Bungie, or even 343I, to comment on this crap, and explain why the "retconned" TFoR that many people paid for did NOT fix the inconsistencies.

I watched the Legendary Commentary video, and when one of the commentators (Marty, I think) asked "so, how does all this fit into canon?" Lehto responded with a very curt "perfectly" (or something to that effect).

That's great Lehto, care to tell us how?

[Edited on 11.13.2010 11:43 PM PST]

  • 11.13.2010 11:42 PM PDT

Lets Boogie

It could be said what Bungie did to Canon was in fact immoral.

Bungie CAN change canon anytime they want...does not mean the SHOULD.

TFoR was marketed to us consumers as the predecessor to Halo CE. We bought the book because we believe that it was Canon...which it was at that time.

Then Bungie changes Canon creating what we bought into FAN-FIC.

I didn't spend MY MONEY in buying fan-fic.

What makes it even worse is that the updated version of TFoR was released around the time of REACH....and even that did not fix the changes that result from Reach's retcon.

That's not moral marketing at all. Bungie KNEW that Reach's Canon overturned TFoR Canon...but still allowed glorified fan fic (i.e the updated TFoR) to sell, even though they knew the book was being sold as "canon".

Bungie LOST a lot of my respect of them.

  • 11.14.2010 12:46 AM PDT
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My jokes, so I don't lose them (ignore this):
ZedFish's Opinion on Sgt. Foley.
ZedFish's Forerunner Rickroll.

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.
Woah, woah woah woah. I thought the battle was nine days?

And also, if they put up a fight for 29 more days, doesn't that mean that they put more effort in, holding out for a month compared to "a day"?

  • 11.14.2010 1:07 AM PDT


Posted by: EchoGamer
Technically, Linda doesn't "die".


Now it's been a good long while since I've read TFoR but IIRC Linda's vitals had flat-lined or at the very least she was at the very brink of death. Mind you I may wrong so that's that.

But everything in this post is completely valid, and the explanations suggested by members of this forum usually fall apart, or simply raise more questions. I really want nothing more than for SOMEONE at Bungie, or even 343I, to comment on this crap, and explain why the "retconned" TFoR that many people paid for did NOT fix the inconsistencies.

I watched the Legendary Commentary video, and when one of the commentators (Marty, I think) asked "so, how does all this fit into canon?" Lehto responded with a very curt "perfectly" (or something to that effect).

That's great Lehto, care to tell us how?


I think that's what just about everyone who has invested time in the Halo EU wants. Just some answers, instead of the months of silence followed by a small mention in some obscure video not available to the masses. Sure Halsey's journal help's smooth over some of the potholes but like the commentary it isn't widely available and there isn't enough concrete to go around. In short there is still a lot of work to be done to fix the mess Reach made.

  • 11.14.2010 2:14 AM PDT

The complete Fall of Reach timeline, with both the book and game included. It makes perfect sense to me.

My literal one question is where those Spartan-III's came from, being that all but a few had died from the first groups, and the remaining ones were on Onyx.

FALL OF REACH TIMELINE

  • 11.14.2010 3:01 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: Admonitor

Posted by: EchoGamer
Technically, Linda doesn't "die".


Now it's been a good long while since I've read TFoR but IIRC Linda's vitals had flat-lined or at the very least she was at the very brink of death. Mind you I may wrong so that's that.
She was, in fact, completely dead when they put her into the cryotube.
She'd only been dead for a few minutes when they put her into cryo, so it was still possible for Halsey to revive her during the events of First Strike.Posted by: Wesley S Shark
The complete Fall of Reach timeline, with both the book and game included. It makes perfect sense to me.

My literal one question is where those Spartan-III's came from, being that all but a few had died from the first groups, and the remaining ones were on Onyx.

FALL OF REACH TIMELINE
I have just read that, and my immediate (verbal) response as I reached the section entitled "second Covenant Fleet arrives (August 30th)" was "Oh my God, what?!"

That makes no sense.
What that timeline has done is simply take Halo Reach, and put a massive, hacked stitch between it and The Fall of Reach.
It is lazy, and pointless and stupid and even if it were true, it still renders the 'second' space battle as told in TFOR worthless, because why were the 20 SMAC ODPs still operational after battling a fleet of 300? When there were clearly Covenant ground and orbital forces on Reach, why were they still surprised when a second Covenant fleet deployed ground forces?

Most importantly, why was the Cole Protocol not enacted on UNSC Circumference and why did the UNSC feel the need to enact a second recall of UNSC forces to Reach from the two nearest systems, who should have been there 2+ weeks ago from the original recall order?

WHY WERE THE SPARTANS STILL IN ORBIT.

[Edited on 11.14.2010 4:31 AM PST]

  • 11.14.2010 4:22 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Bungie failed hard

It's clear that they don't care for the Halo EU or for the hardcore fans

Heresy

This can't be accepted

And NO,Bungie won't fix those canon errors.They are too lazy and they think everything fits in canon

They left that dirty work behind for Eric Nylund and 343.Poor Eric had to write a book in 7 weeks and now that books is burned by Bungie

  • 11.14.2010 4:42 AM PDT

Per Audacia Ad Astra!

People are saying here that TFOR need to be revised, in my opinion a book who was released 9 years ago (and two weeks before Halo C.E) is more the "original source" than a game who pretend to be the real Timeline, and who screw up every single lines of Eric Nylund's novel started to Sigma Octanus.

343i and Bungie consider both Halo:Reach and TFOR as canon, there's incoherence concerning the Halo crhonology. How Bungie could do that to their fans, did the writing team is lazy or what? i hope that for their next i.p they will have a solid division of writers for keeping coherences in term of narration and devellopement because if they continue like this, their universe going to be cool but the consistencies of their story will suffering of retcon and scenaristic weakness...

  • 11.14.2010 5:19 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: CanineThewolvie
People are saying here that TFOR need to be revised, in my opinion a book who was released 9 years ago (and two weeks before Halo C.E) is more the "original source" than a game who pretend to be the real Timeline, and who screw up every single lines of Eric Nylund's novel started to Sigma Octanus.

343i and Bungie consider both Halo:Reach and TFOR as canon, there's incoherence concerning the Halo crhonology. How Bungie could do that to their fans, did the writing team is lazy or what? i hope that for their next i.p they will have a solid division of writers for keeping coherences in term of narration and devellopement because if they continue like this, their universe going to be cool but the consistencies of their story will suffering of retcon and scenaristic weakness...


I doubt that they will have books for their new IP

And i don't care for their new game i won't buy it
I'm not a big gamer,i just have a xbox to play Halo

At least 343 indsutries doesn't ignores book canon
Just look at Halo Waypoint and Halo legends

  • 11.14.2010 5:39 AM PDT

Posted By: C SEC Agent

1. Reach's fall was extended tenfold in the game compared to the book.

2. PoA was never on Reach.

3. Where were the Orbital MAC guns?

4. By extension of #2, Cortana couldn't have been getting a piggyback ride from N6.

5. Jorge

The list goes on, up until around the number 15.


1. Until near the end, it is possible ONI kept the Invasion under wraps to avoid mass panic if it was limited to one area at first, after all most of the game takes place in a concentrated area of Eposz

2. According to Halopedia it made a last minute jump back onto Reach

3. See all the debris in the distance in Long Night of Solace? That or maybe you are below the MAC emplacements

4. Cortana was split into two fragments by Dr. Halsey so she could do 2 jobs at once, the PoA came back to collect the half N6 carried.

5. Jorge is there. Get over it.

  • 11.14.2010 7:53 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: OrderedComa
And as to Red Team getting down to Reach, and Blue Team carrying out their op, that's easily explained. The Autumn goes down to Reach after the Spartans have parted ways and Chief and the others are picked up from their op. After Chief and co. are picked up, Halsey calls the Autumn back to Reach to pick up the fragment of Cortana, and then the ending of the game plays out. So really the only major change is to the ending of FToR which is of little to no importance in comparison to the rest of the book.


Why would you shove 25 spartan II's into a single pelican and send it through heavy combat and expect a couple of longswords to protect it, when you were going to just land on the damn planet a few minutes later?

It doesn't even make sense.


I never said Keyes was planning to go down to Reach, and it was no where near "a few minutes later". I said that I think Halsey called the Autumn down to Reach after Chief and the others wiping the Circumference had been picked up. My theory is that as they were preparing to jump, they get a transmission from Halsey to come back and pick up the package.

What you're proposing, of course does not make sense, but I was not suggesting that at all.

  • 11.14.2010 8:07 AM PDT
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- The Covenant arriving on Reach almost a full month before the battle is supposed to take place.

But it was a secret. ONI managed to cover up the presence of giant warships and massive invading armies for entire month, and not a single person noticed.

Really.

[Edited on 11.14.2010 8:14 AM PST]

  • 11.14.2010 8:14 AM PDT


Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII


FALL OF REACH TIMELINE[/quote]I have just read that, and my immediate (verbal) response as I reached the section entitled "second Covenant Fleet arrives (August 30th)" was "Oh my God, what?!"

That makes no sense.
What that timeline has done is simply take Halo Reach, and put a massive, hacked stitch between it and The Fall of Reach.
It is lazy, and pointless and stupid and even if it were true, it still renders the 'second' space battle as told in TFOR worthless, because why were the 20 SMAC ODPs still operational after battling a fleet of 300? When there were clearly Covenant ground and orbital forces on Reach, why were they still surprised when a second Covenant fleet deployed ground forces?

Most importantly, why was the Cole Protocol not enacted on UNSC Circumference and why did the UNSC feel the need to enact a second recall of UNSC forces to Reach from the two nearest systems, who should have been there 2+ weeks ago from the original recall order?

WHY WERE THE SPARTANS STILL IN ORBIT.


I agree with you that completely splicing the timelines together doesn't really work. My theory is that invasion fleet arriving on 30th in TFoR was pushed back in the game to the 14th.

As to the Circumference, I don't know if you remember or not, but there's a transmission at one point in TFoR that says all information on Circumference was erased, so basically the Circumference no longer existed. I have no idea why ONI didn't erase the nav data on it when the Covies were first discovered, but they are ONI, and they're not exactly completely law abiding.

The Spartan IIs were in orbit at this time because they were about to go on the Prophet kidnapping mission. And before the briefing on the mission there's a large time gap, so we don't know what they were doing.

  • 11.14.2010 8:29 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII


FALL OF REACH TIMELINEI have just read that, and my immediate (verbal) response as I reached the section entitled "second Covenant Fleet arrives (August 30th)" was "Oh my God, what?!"

That makes no sense.
What that timeline has done is simply take Halo Reach, and put a massive, hacked stitch between it and The Fall of Reach.
It is lazy, and pointless and stupid and even if it were true, it still renders the 'second' space battle as told in TFOR worthless, because why were the 20 SMAC ODPs still operational after battling a fleet of 300? When there were clearly Covenant ground and orbital forces on Reach, why were they still surprised when a second Covenant fleet deployed ground forces?

Most importantly, why was the Cole Protocol not enacted on UNSC Circumference and why did the UNSC feel the need to enact a second recall of UNSC forces to Reach from the two nearest systems, who should have been there 2+ weeks ago from the original recall order?

WHY WERE THE SPARTANS STILL IN ORBIT.


I agree with you that completely splicing the timelines together doesn't really work. My theory is that invasion fleet arriving on 30th in TFoR was pushed back in the game to the 14th.

As to the Circumference, I don't know if you remember or not, but there's a transmission at one point in TFoR that says all information on Circumference was erased, so basically the Circumference no longer existed. I have no idea why ONI didn't erase the nav data on it when the Covies were first discovered, but they are ONI, and they're not exactly completely law abiding.

The Spartan IIs were in orbit at this time because they were about to go on the Prophet kidnapping mission. And before the briefing on the mission there's a large time gap, so we don't know what they were doing.
I meant still in orbit, as by the timeline they would have spent close to a day on a ship in ship-to-ship combat.

A space battle cannot last 2 weeks, the Covenant fleet had more than enough plasma torpedoes to destroy the entirety of the UNSC fleet in a single salvo, and have some left over for the SMACs and more still remaining to start hitting ground targets. 750 ships vs 150 ships, the UNSC are outnumbered 5:1, and are supposed to have a 3:1 advantage to win - so are only equipped with around 1/15th of the ships they need to win - which according to the datapads, was the sum total of pre-war orbital assets.

I do however have no idea how Earth held out for so, so long - it remained standing for several months while under total siege.

[Edited on 11.14.2010 8:35 AM PST]

  • 11.14.2010 8:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII


FALL OF REACH TIMELINE[/quote]I have just read that, and my immediate (verbal) response as I reached the section entitled "second Covenant Fleet arrives (August 30th)" was "Oh my God, what?!"

That makes no sense.
What that timeline has done is simply take Halo Reach, and put a massive, hacked stitch between it and The Fall of Reach.
It is lazy, and pointless and stupid and even if it were true, it still renders the 'second' space battle as told in TFOR worthless, because why were the 20 SMAC ODPs still operational after battling a fleet of 300? When there were clearly Covenant ground and orbital forces on Reach, why were they still surprised when a second Covenant fleet deployed ground forces?

Most importantly, why was the Cole Protocol not enacted on UNSC Circumference and why did the UNSC feel the need to enact a second recall of UNSC forces to Reach from the two nearest systems, who should have been there 2+ weeks ago from the original recall order?

WHY WERE THE SPARTANS STILL IN ORBIT.


I agree with you that completely splicing the timelines together doesn't really work. My theory is that invasion fleet arriving on 30th in TFoR was pushed back in the game to the 14th.

As to the Circumference, I don't know if you remember or not, but there's a transmission at one point in TFoR that says all information on Circumference was erased, so basically the Circumference no longer existed. I have no idea why ONI didn't erase the nav data on it when the Covies were first discovered, but they are ONI, and they're not exactly completely law abiding.

The Spartan IIs were in orbit at this time because they were about to go on the Prophet kidnapping mission. And before the briefing on the mission there's a large time gap, so we don't know what they were doing.


It would probably be best to move the date of the briefing up as well.

Beta Red was on the ground as early as TotS, if I heard those radio conversations correctly.

  • 11.14.2010 8:36 AM PDT


Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: C SEC Agent
1. Reach's fall was extended tenfold in the game compared to the book.

2. PoA was never on Reach.

3. Where were the Orbital MAC guns?

4. By extension of #2, Cortana couldn't have been getting a piggyback ride from N6.

5. Jorge

The list goes on, up until around the number 15.


I think it's the first sword base level, but Kat does mention the SMACs, I think one of them is what was supposed to have taken out the Corvette attacking Sword.

In response to #4 it was actually only a fragment of Cortana, the real Cortana was still on the Autumn, the Journal explains the "two" Cortanas thing.

#1 I don't see any problem with it being extended, and the way I see it, the Covies in the levels up 'til the Long Night of Solace is destroyed are a reconnaissance force or something, and then the main fleet arrives in system, and between the arival of the Fleet of Particular Justice in the game and Reach's fall on the 30th of August is a rather small period of time, like 1 week I believe it was.
And the book is rather vague on what is going on on Reach the whole time, the book is mostly concerned with Keyes and the Spartans and their back stories.

#2 that's the only thing that might actually be a problem, and I don't really have an answer for it other than to wait and see what Bungie or 343 does to explain it.

#5 Why is Jorge a problem? I don't see anything wrong there.

Kat mention the SMACs in one level, great, where did they go? Why was it up to a group of Sabre's and a single Frigate to go on a suicide mission to destroy the Super-carrier, when there would have been somewhere around 20 SMACs, a fully intact fleet (with at least one cruiser, if I remember right) sitting over Reach. Where are they? What the hell are they doing?

Yes, the journal explains it was a fragment of Cortana, great, that does not at all address the issue of the fact that the PoA could NOT have been ground-side on Reach, as in that case, there would have been no need to launch Red Team from orbit, thus not causing the deaths of several SPARTANs, not causing Red Team to become stranded on Reach, not causing the death of even MORE SPARTANs, and there would have been no way to send Blue Team to the Circumference if they weren't in orbit. At least, there would have been no point, as sending them via Pelican from the surface of Reach would have taken long time. And if Blue Team never went to the Circumference, then Johnson, Jenkins and Bisenti never got on the PoA, and all died at Reach.

So, the Covenant "reconnaissance" force consists of the largest ship in the Covenant fleet, at least one Cruiser, and enough ground forces to openly engage the full military presence on Reach? And then, on top of this, the UNSC decides in the midst of all this, Not to send in the SPARTAN II's? That raises hundreds of more questions as to what the -blam!- the UNSC was thinking.

As for Jorge, given that he is a SPARTAN-II, not a SPARTAN-III, there is the problem of why he was put on Noble Team. We can assume "ONI did it", but again, why?
And if ONI did take Jorge from active service with the S-II's, the only way they could have done that would be to fake his death, similar to Kurt's. Then, we get another problem; Dr. Halsey's reaction to him on Sword Base. She acts as if she simply had not seen him in a long time, not as if he was listed as MIA, and she certainly has no questions about who the other SPARTANs are. Jorge's presence is a miniscule problem when compared to the other glaring flaws in Halo: Reach's campaign.

If one more person comes into a thread like this and says "books r not canon" I might literally start screaming.


The Autumn was called back to Reach by Halsey after the ship had recovered Chief from the Circumference. In other words, the Autumn went down to the surface of Reach 15+ minutes after deploying the Spartans.

Maybe reconnaissance is not the right word, but they were definitely sent ahead of the main fleet to gain a foothold, some recon work most likely would be involved in this, but that was not their sole purpose, and then they made a blunder when they took out Visegard and the UNSC was consequently made aware of their presence on Reach.
And as I've said multiple times before, there are large time gaps in the book where we don't know what has been going on, so the SIIs could have easily been taking part in the defense before they were tasked with going after the Prophets.

ONI are the ones responsible for giving all Spartans their missions, they wouldn't need to have Jorge declared MIA, they would just have him put on Noble Team, and someone will probably say something about "why didn't Halsey know about it then" ONI likes keeping her in the dark, she only has limited access to ONI information, and even then it's only as much as they choose to give her.
The only reason they practically kidnapped Kurt and had him declared MIA is because the SIIIs are a closely guarded secret, and the amount of involvement he would have with them, they pretty much had to have his death faked.

  • 11.14.2010 9:11 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

How in the hell could the pillar even LAND on the planet. It'd be so impractical.

It doesn't make any sense at all to have a ship in orbit, be ready to go, and then land on the planet for an extra few hours when sending a simple pelican would do.

Hell, if he was going to land, why would he send 25 Spartans with ONE pelican down. Keyes isn't stupid. If he planned on landing that wouldn't of happened.

I'm telling you, every event after Sigma Octanus IV has been changed. And nobody from Bungie is going to fix it.

  • 11.14.2010 9:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: privet caboose
How in the hell could the pillar even LAND on the planet. It'd be so impractical.

It doesn't make any sense at all to have a ship in orbit, be ready to go, and then land on the planet for an extra few hours when sending a simple pelican would do.

Hell, if he was going to land, why would he send 25 Spartans with ONE pelican down. Keyes isn't stupid. If he planned on landing that wouldn't of happened.

I'm telling you, every event after Sigma Octanus IV has been changed. And nobody from Bungie is going to fix it.


Again, sending all the Spartans down would have to happen earlier.

Having the Autumn and the S-IIs jump into action all on the 30th is done. Gone. Dead. Forever. I don't care what the updated FoR said (judging by the forum firestorm a few months ago, you guys don't either). The S-IIs were down fighting at the earliest possible time.

Everything before Sigma is still mostly canon in its entirety. Everything after is still canon in broad strokes, but not in that order that it appears, and certainly not all on the 30th.

First Strike is still about 80% canon (hopefully Tor will throw us a bone with the updated version.) GoO is still near-entirely canon. Everything else is hardly affected in the slightest.

  • 11.14.2010 9:21 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

So, James didn't die? Linda didn't 'die'? Those 4 spartans didn't die? They weren't protecting the orbital macs, that's for sure.

The entire ground battle changed. All of it. The space op didn't happen, so how did Johnson even get on the pillar?

  • 11.14.2010 9:23 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
How in the hell could the pillar even LAND on the planet. It'd be so impractical.

It doesn't make any sense at all to have a ship in orbit, be ready to go, and then land on the planet for an extra few hours when sending a simple pelican would do.

Hell, if he was going to land, why would he send 25 Spartans with ONE pelican down. Keyes isn't stupid. If he planned on landing that wouldn't of happened.

I'm telling you, every event after Sigma Octanus IV has been changed. And nobody from Bungie is going to fix it.


I don't think you're hearing me right, Caboose, I have not said ever in my posts that Keyes planned to go down to Reach, they were leaving after picking up Chief, Johnson, dying Linda, and the other marines from eliminating the Circumference Nav Data, and then before they jump Halsey calls them down to the surface to pick up the Cortana fragment.

I never said he was stupid either, I'm sure that if he hadn't been gotten be the Flood then Keyes would have probably wound up as an AI after his death, he sent Red Team down in a Pelican because going down to Reach was never part of his plan, if it had been then he just would have dropped them off on the ground.

Yes, events after Sigma Octanus have changed, but they're nothing canon breaking, a few minor events like dates got changed and that's it. Bungie will only fix it if there is something to fix, which I don't believe there is a need to do.

  • 11.14.2010 10:15 AM PDT

Per Audacia Ad Astra!


Posted by: hotshot revan II

I doubt that they will have books for their new IP

And i don't care for their new game i won't buy it
I'm not a big gamer,i just have a xbox to play Halo

At least 343 indsutries doesn't ignores book canon
Just look at Halo Waypoint and Halo legends


Who know about the possibility of having books based on their new i.p?

Posted by: FleetAdmiralBob
Again, sending all the Spartans down would have to happen earlier.

Having the Autumn and the S-IIs jump into action all on the 30th is done. Gone. Dead. Forever. I don't care what the updated FoR said (judging by the forum firestorm a few months ago, you guys don't either). The S-IIs were down fighting at the earliest possible time.

Everything before Sigma is still mostly canon in its entirety. Everything after is still canon in broad strokes, but not in that order that it appears, and certainly not all on the 30th.

First Strike is still about 80% canon (hopefully Tor will throw us a bone with the updated version.) GoO is still near-entirely canon. Everything else is hardly affected in the slightest.


About this, i hope that sooner or later Bungie will said something about the canon they destroyed, and the negative consequences created in their community. At least there will inevitably one of these 2 materials who going to be the official version of the events, and i hope this will be Nylund's story, Bungie just go too far in their delirium, that's all i have to say about this.

  • 11.14.2010 12:08 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
How in the hell could the pillar even LAND on the planet. It'd be so impractical.

It doesn't make any sense at all to have a ship in orbit, be ready to go, and then land on the planet for an extra few hours when sending a simple pelican would do.

Hell, if he was going to land, why would he send 25 Spartans with ONE pelican down. Keyes isn't stupid. If he planned on landing that wouldn't of happened.

I'm telling you, every event after Sigma Octanus IV has been changed. And nobody from Bungie is going to fix it.


I don't think you're hearing me right, Caboose, I have not said ever in my posts that Keyes planned to go down to Reach, they were leaving after picking up Chief, Johnson, dying Linda, and the other marines from eliminating the Circumference Nav Data, and then before they jump Halsey calls them down to the surface to pick up the Cortana fragment.

I never said he was stupid either, I'm sure that if he hadn't been gotten be the Flood then Keyes would have probably wound up as an AI after his death, he sent Red Team down in a Pelican because going down to Reach was never part of his plan, if it had been then he just would have dropped them off on the ground.

Yes, events after Sigma Octanus have changed, but they're nothing canon breaking, a few minor events like dates got changed and that's it. Bungie will only fix it if there is something to fix, which I don't believe there is a need to do.


But the nav mission wouldn't of happened, because the UNSC wouldn't of let the circumference sit out with nav data for a month!

  • 11.14.2010 12:22 PM PDT


Posted by: opogjijijp
But it was a secret. ONI managed to cover up the presence of giant warships and massive invading armies for entire month, and not a single person noticed.

Really.


Now I'm not doubting ONIs abilities here seeing as they are the organization that explains away almost every inconsistency with the ever so apt "ONI did it." But even I doubt there abilities to cover up the "small reconnaissance force," that showed up on Reach.

I'm sorry I don't care how good you are a covering -blam!- up, but this is an insurmountable obstacle. Think of it as ONIs Everest but instead it is impossible. No matter how hard you try someone is going to notice. Whether it be from the Super Carrier XL falling from the heavens or New Alexandria turning into a boiling lake of molten glass, or all the civilian evacuation transports from an entire continent suddenly getting up and leaving or any of the other stuff that happened for the almost 30 day time period before the "Official" Covenant fleet showed up.

Hell the only way this makes sense is if the UNSC is the most inept military organization in the history of the universe. Even then there is no way the UNSC is surprised when the "Official" fleet shows. There is also no way the Circumference is left in that station for a month with that data needing to be wiped.

As far as I'm concerned Halo is like a jigsaw puzzle. You know what sure some pieces don't really fit, and there are several missing, but it still forms a pretty consistent picture. Then here comes Reach, it is a completely different puzzle (speaking canonically and gameplay wise) but Bungie tries to jam it in anyways, and they succeed. Except in the process they break a whole bunch of stuff to make room for this new puzzle. And as a result a whole bunch of the previous picture is destroyed or warped to the point where it makes no sense. And here we suddenly have a picture show up right in the middle, that makes no sense in the context of the previous picture.

And the picture they decided to put in isn't any good anyways, so what was the point of all this, to see how patient your EU fans are, or to push their loyalty to the brink of giving up on Halo and in some cases abandoning ship. Or was it just to see how much retconning you can get away with without having to explain yourself.

Anyone else starting to get a Star Wars vibe from this. I personally cannot wait until they adopt a B canon model/sarcasm

[Edited on 11.14.2010 12:56 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2010 12:55 PM PDT