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  • Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon


Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Posted by: privet caboose
I have no idea what possessed Bungie to remove Scarabs as an enemy in Reach. It was just stupid. The covenant are invading and we, a team of spartans, don't fight a single one the entire campaign? We see 10+ Scarabs throughout the game, but I guess we weren't good enough to kill one.

I mean hell, Carter didn't need to kill himself. Emile or Six could've easily taken one down. Chief kills five scarabs in the last few months of the war, Fred and the rest of Blue team kill atleast one more while on Cuba, and even a team of ODST's kill one.

And yet Bungie wasted a spartan life for something a couple ODST's could kill. =/
If they made it a Super Scarab like in Halo 2, then it would have made sense for Carter to sacrifice himself. That would be much harder to take down.


Other being able to be driven and carrying more troops, how was the Halo 2 Scarab any different from its Halo 3 counterpart?

  • 12.14.2010 7:59 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

My understanding the Cole Protocol might be way off, but I've always understood it that it was only enacted in an area the Covenant were in and on objects in that specific area that were under threat of capture.
The Winter Contingency
The Cole Protocol
If the Winter contingency is declared the Cole Protocol is enacted if the Covenant "have detected a military, government, or private spacecraft or military, government, or private facility that is incapable of immediate Slipstream space travel." Which can basically be any research facility on Reach. Also in TFoR the emergency communique from Admiral Freemont ordered all ships returning to defend Reach to enact the Cole Protocol.

Did you not notice the fleet coming in on the 14th of August right after the Long Night of Solace is destroyed, or are you simply ignoring it? I think this is supposed to be the fleet arriving on the 30th of August, I highly doubt that there would be two fleets coming to Reach at separate times. If we accept that date as the date that the main Covenant fleet arrives. That means that the Autumn was on it's way out of the system and was recalled. This means that Red team was jumped onto Reach 16 days before the Autumn jumped to Installation 04. Thus extending the battle for 16 days, when it has always been a day a the most. How doesn't that break canon?

I do not see anything about Noble being on Reach ridiculous at all. And all Halsey knows about them from her brief encounters is that they're a rival Spartan project, she knows they're not hers, it would be dumb to think she doesn't. When the remaining Noble Team meets up with Halsey in her lab she has their classified files open and is going through them to help Cortana choose a carrier. Obviously she must know more about them than the mere fact they are a competing Spartan program.

They were planning to capture a ship, but once they heard the state of the generators, and about the NAV Data on the Circumference, they split up.
According to TFoR they were specifically called back to protect the SMAC's generators from the landing party's that were being sent down to the surface. The capturing of a ship was the Chief's idea and Keyes would only do it if everything went perfectly their original orders were to return to Reach, enact the Cole Protocol, and defend the planet.

They return on the 30th of August, like in the book, though I do recall now that it was also to help in the battle and Chief thought they could just capture a Covenant ship there. Where exactly are they returning from on the 30th? If like the game says the The Fleet of Particular Justice arrived on the 14th then that means we have to shift everything back 14 days. So on the 14th the Autumn was about to go into slipspace to capture a covenant leader and was called back to defend Reach and the generators. So Beta team had to be holding the generators for 16 days alone while the chief did what on the Autumn? He couldn't have been on the surface because the whole reason they couldn't return to rescue Red team was because the battle was over and they had to flee. If he had been fighting on the surface they wouldn't have had time to pick him up. Nor would they have had time to destroy the nav data on the circumference that was the point of splitting up the Spartans in the first place because they need to do both at the same time, not over a 16 day span.

As for them not leaving earlier, it takes a while to gather the proper supplies for such a mission, especially if there is an invasion going on. It wasn't returning in the book because they needed Spartans at the generators, Keyes wanted to go back to help in the battle, and Chief went along with it because they could easily capture a ship thereBecause of the time discrepancy it messes up your whole time line of events. The Autumn should already have been supplied and leaving on the 14th if that is the date that Reach was invaded.

And Keyes wasn't planning to go down to the surface of the planet, that is another thing in the list of life's unexpected curve balls thrown at them during the attack on Reach. And he wasn't planning to go get the Cortana fragment either, I would assume that Halsey was the only one who knew about it.Once again he wasn't planning on going back down to the surface because while the Chief and Red team were fighting their respective battles the Autumn was fighting off Covenant ships that were basically doing suicide runs to destroy the MAC cannons, he didn't have time to pick up Cortana and for the timeline to fit.

How exactly is Jorge working in a group of IIIs wreck canon? I want to explore your reasoning here so I may form my arguments more strongly.

What bothers me about Jorge is that Halsey who followed the careers of the Spartan II's never knew that he was working with a team of rival Spartans on the SAME planet as her, wearing HER armor.

[Edited on 12.14.2010 8:22 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2010 8:21 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

This thread is fail........

Dude must have never read the first book or has no memory...

Read the books...

  • 12.14.2010 8:23 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: xAssault12x
This thread is fail........

Dude must have never read the first book or has no memory...

Read the books...

Don't do that we're actually having a good discussion about it. There's no need to be ridiculous.

  • 12.14.2010 8:37 PM PDT

If the Winter contingency is declared the Cole Protocol is enacted if the Covenant "have detected a military, government, or private spacecraft or military, government, or private facility that is incapable of immediate Slipstream space travel." Which can basically be any research facility on Reach. Also in TFoR the emergency communique from Admiral Freemont ordered all ships returning to defend Reach to enact the Cole Protocol.

I see what you're saying, I probably am wrong, but I don't see it saying anywhere to enact the Cole Protocol on every single facility/ship/other if the Covenant are attacking a planet. It sounds like it's suppoosed to be enacted on things that are in immediate danger of being capture by the Covenant.

As for all the ships coming to Reach to defend it, that order makes sense, they'll pretty much be jumping into an active war zone where they could be capture any moment.

If we accept that date as the date that the main Covenant fleet arrives. That means that the Autumn was on it's way out of the system and was recalled. This means that Red team was jumped onto Reach 16 days before the Autumn jumped to Installation 04. Thus extending the battle for 16 days, when it has always been a day a the most. How doesn't that break canon?

I'm saying the Autumn was still leaving on the 30th, only the arrival of the Fleet of Particular Justice is bumped back.

When the remaining Noble Team meets up with Halsey in her lab she has their classified files open and is going through them to help Cortana choose a carrier. Obviously she must know more about them than the mere fact they are a competing Spartan program.

Am I just being forgetful? I don't remember the files being there in the cutscene. I mean I know they're there in the room when you activate the special switch to just go in there, but I thought of it as just an easter egg.

According to TFoR they were specifically called back to protect the SMAC's generators from the landing party's that were being sent down to the surface. The capturing of a ship was the Chief's idea and Keyes would only do it if everything went perfectly their original orders were to return to Reach, enact the Cole Protocol, and defend the planet.

No, the Autumn received the transmission directed at all available ships to return to Reach, and Keyes decided to go back. And then the Spartans decided to split and go on their respective missions once they overheard that the SMAC generators were being over run. I just read the book, so it's still fresh in my mind.

Where exactly are they returning from on the 30th? If like the game says the The Fleet of Particular Justice arrived on the 14th then that means we have to shift everything back 14 days. So on the 14th the Autumn was about to go into slipspace to capture a covenant leader and was called back to defend Reach and the generators. So Beta team had to be holding the generators for 16 days alone while the chief did what on the Autumn? He couldn't have been on the surface because the whole reason they couldn't return to rescue Red team was because the battle was over and they had to flee. If he had been fighting on the surface they wouldn't have had time to pick him up. Nor would they have had time to destroy the nav data on the circumference that was the point of splitting up the Spartans in the first place because they need to do both at the same time, not over a 16 day span.

They're leaving system on the 30th in the book, and then the Fleet of Particular Justice arrives and they're called back. And as I said earlier, the Autumn is still leaving on the 30th, the arrival of the fleet is pushed back.

Once again he wasn't planning on going back down to the surface because while the Chief and Red team were fighting their respective battles the Autumn was fighting off Covenant ships that were basically doing suicide runs to destroy the MAC cannons, he didn't have time to pick up Cortana and for the timeline to fit.

I have said that the Autumn went down to pick up the Cortana fragment after it retrieved Chief and his group from the NAV wiping mission.

What bothers me about Jorge is that Halsey who followed the careers of the Spartan II's never knew that he was working with a team of rival Spartans on the SAME planet as her, wearing HER armor.

This would be one of those times where it's not utterly retarded to say "ONI did it". Do we know how closely she followed her Spartans? And remember, she doesn't know everything even she can hack into ONI files, she can't access everything.

  • 12.14.2010 10:15 PM PDT

I don't have time to read the entire thread, so I don't know if this has been brought up or not, but this could explain a lot of the timeline differences:

Planet: Reach (excerpt from CAA FACTBOOK [l.update 12.7.2535])

* Length of day: 27 hours
* Length of year: 390 days (local)

source

Reach's year is 25 days longer than Earth's.

The book, The Fall of Reach, takes place across multiple planets and systems, so it tracks time using Earth's calendar.

The game takes place only on Reach, so it uses the local Reach calendar.

Assuming that the fleet arriving at the end of The Long Night of Solace is the same fleet as the one identified in the book, then Reach's, then we can say that August 14th on Reach's calendar, and August 30th on Earth's are, in fact the same day.

There's more math that can be done to find the timeline for earlier events in the game, but I'm not really up for figuring that out right now.

This doesn't explain other events, like the Pillar of Autumn being on Reach in time for the game's final mission, but it does help to clear up some dates.

There was a thread on HBO that had a similar theory, but I think it explained it a lot better. If anyone has a link to that, I'd appreciate it.

[Edited on 12.14.2010 11:20 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2010 11:02 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

Ok so if the armorlock is a UNSC technology lost in the glassing of Reach, why the Elites and Brutes can use it too? And they stop using it after Reach? Bungie indeed was careless of this details to explain. Not to mention the armor colors of the Zealots.

Plus in the book "Contact Harvest" written by Joseph Staten described the BR's and now Bungie is stating that the DMR is the old version of the BR? Seriously Bungie went out not with a bang but with a careless shame, they just wanted to get the hell out of Microsoft screwing our Halo universe.

[Edited on 12.14.2010 11:47 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2010 11:44 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.


Posted by: OrderedComa
I see what you're saying, I probably am wrong, but I don't see it saying anywhere to enact the Cole Protocol on every single facility/ship/other if the Covenant are attacking a planet. It sounds like it's suppoosed to be enacted on things that are in immediate danger of being capture by the Covenant.

Like we saw after part of the battle had ended on P300, "A view screen snapped to Reach's northern pole. Hundreds of Covenant dropships streamed towards the planet's surface... 'Tell them they're being invaded dropships at both poles'(keyes)The super MAC guns pivoted and fired shattering dozeens of covenant dropships in the shells' supersonic wake. The remains of the UNSC fleet split into two groups, moving toward either pole. Missiles and MAC guns fired blasting dropships to bits...Hundreds must have gotten through Keyes thought. Reach has been invaded."
There were Covenant forces on the ground a Covenant fleet orbiting the planet it looks to me like any nav data is in grave danger of being captured.

I'm saying the Autumn was still leaving on the 30th, only the arrival of the Fleet of Particular Justice is bumped back.
That makes no sense though. If the Fleet of particular justice arrives on the 14th that means that the ensuing battle, which in the book only takes a day must have begun on the 14th. This also implies that every available ship was recalled to defend Reach. So because the Autumn either had to be on Reach already and not heading out of system to do their mission, which if we just shift everything back that should be what happens, then they were recalled and the sequence of events had to unfold as it did in the book. Or we go with your idea which is that the Autumn hadn't left Reach yet and was just part of the battle on the 14th. Which means that instead of having to jump back into the system and drop off red team in the pelican which was done hastily and caused the death's and injury of several Spartan II's they could have safely had them on the ground and the MC would have been with them because the Autumn didn't go to the circumference until right before it left the system which was on the 30th either way. So this means that you either have to bump both back or leave them the way they were. Do you now see the time discrepancy and the problems this causes for he MC and the other Spartans?

Am I just being forgetful? I don't remember the files being there in the cutscene. I mean I know they're there in the room when you activate the special switch to just go in there, but I thought of it as just an easter egg.
Yeah you are but that's ok replay the mission and watch behind Halsey while she's talking and unplugging Cortana she had obviously just been going through the files of the remaining Noble Team with Cortana so she could choose her carrier.

No, the Autumn received the transmission directed at all available ships to return to Reach, and Keyes decided to go back. And then the Spartans decided to split and go on their respective missions once they overheard that the SMAC generators were being over run. I just read the book, so it's still fresh in my mind.
You're correct. But as I said earlier in this post regardless of the reason for their respective mission you can't add day's onto it like it would throw off the entire sequence of events.


They're leaving system on the 30th in the book, and then the Fleet of Particular Justice arrives and they're called back. And as I said earlier, the Autumn is still leaving on the 30th, the arrival of the fleet is pushed back.
Once again it would make no sense for it to be leaving on the 30th as the Spartans missions all happen because they return from outside the system when the fleet arrives which according to the game happens on the 14th now. Like I said if you change one event you have to change them all otherwise the events don't make sense.

I have said that the Autumn went down to pick up the Cortana fragment after it retrieved Chief and his group from the NAV wiping mission.
This all comes back to my main point that in the book there isn't time because by the time they pick up the MC the battle is over, the UNSC fleet is destroyed, and the Covenant are glassing the planet. Which is why they run instead of going back to pick up red team. If Keyes couldn't go back to search for them he also couldn't go back to get a part of Cortana, the Covenant fleet would have destroyed the Autumn.


This would be one of those times where it's not utterly retarded to say "ONI did it". Do we know how closely she followed her Spartans? And remember, she doesn't know everything even she can hack into ONI files, she can't access everything.
That is a typical Bungie excuse but it still bothers me. She can obviously access anything she wants in the UNSC network as evidenced by the fact that she did download Ackerson's files in GoO. But I suppose if that's what we're going to chalk it up to, that's that.



GanonSmash
No the dates in the book are all based on the UNSC standard military calendar not on the individual planets calenders. Go take a look, that doesn't account for the time difference.

[Edited on 12.15.2010 10:15 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2010 7:55 AM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
No the dates in the book are all based on the UNSC standard military calendar not on the individual planets calenders. Go take a look, that doesn't account for the time difference.
Exactly, they all use the standard calendar, which is based on Earth's calendar. The game is based on reach's, which is 15 days off as of August 30th. It doesn't fix everything, but this seems to be a major fact that everyone is overlooking.

  • 12.15.2010 9:12 AM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: GanonSmash

Posted by: Spartan1065
No the dates in the book are all based on the UNSC standard military calendar not on the individual planets calenders. Go take a look, that doesn't account for the time difference.
Exactly, they all use the standard calendar, which is based on Earth's calendar. The game is based on reach's, which is 15 days off as of August 30th. It doesn't fix everything, but this seems to be a major fact that everyone is overlooking.


That's a good point but still from one day to a month of battles? My point here is, It's been a month of fighting in Reach and why Beta Red Team had to die, like if they didn't have enough time to set up a better defence for the MAC generators?

I mean, Red Team was deployed on Reach surface, losing 4 Spartans in a free fall landing, cause they had no time, and they were blasted by covenant ships, ok?(According to Fall of Reach) Why risk this, when the Autumn could land?

Let's be honest, Red team was sent down there cause the "surprise covenant attack", the UNSC already knew they were under attack, how come, they never reinforced the MAC generators? Bungie changed the canon I get it! but they still used some Fall of Reach events that they just not fit in the new Reach!

  • 12.15.2010 9:35 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: GanonSmash

Posted by: Spartan1065
No the dates in the book are all based on the UNSC standard military calendar not on the individual planets calenders. Go take a look, that doesn't account for the time difference.
Exactly, they all use the standard calendar, which is based on Earth's calendar. The game is based on reach's, which is 15 days off as of August 30th. It doesn't fix everything, but this seems to be a major fact that everyone is overlooking.

Ok so instead of 1 day being 24 hours they now have 27 hours. That is still far from the 16 days between the 14th and the 30th.

  • 12.15.2010 9:47 AM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: xAssault12x
This thread is fail........

Dude must have never read the first book or has no memory...

Read the books...

Don't do that we're actually having a good discussion about it. There's no need to be ridiculous.


Wow, thanks, Spartan, you just went up in my list of cool people on Bungie.net. Always nice debating someone civil.

Like we saw after part of the battle had ended on P300, "A view screen snapped to Reach's northern pole. Hundreds of Covenant dropships streamed towards the planet's surface... 'Tell them they're being invaded dropships at both poles'(keyes)The super MAC guns pivoted and fired shattering dozeens of covenant dropships in the shells' supersonic wake. The remains of the UNSC fleet split into two groups, moving toward either pole. Missiles and MAC guns fired blasting dropships to bits...Hundreds must have gotten through Keyes thought. Reach has been invaded."
There were Covenant forces on the ground a Covenant fleet orbiting the planet it looks to me like any nav data is in grave danger of being captured.


We are having this discussion of the Cole Protocol because of the Circumference, yes? As I've said earlier in this thread, we don't know when the Circumference came to Reach, and all the files of the ships existence were erased anyway, so it technically did not exist, and ONI is not exactly the most law-abiding branch of the UNSC government.

That makes no sense though. If the Fleet of particular justice arrives on the 14th that means that the ensuing battle, which in the book only takes a day must have begun on the 14th. This also implies that every available ship was recalled to defend Reach. So because the Autumn either had to be on Reach already and not heading out of system to do their mission, which if we just shift everything back that should be what happens, then they were recalled and the sequence of events had to unfold as it did in the book. Or we go with your idea which is that the Autumn hadn't left Reach yet and was just part of the battle on the 14th. Which means that instead of having to jump back into the system and drop off red team in the pelican which was done hastily and caused the death's and injury of several Spartan II's they could have safely had them on the ground and the MC would have been with them because the Autumn didn't go to the circumference until right before it left the system which was on the 30th either way. So this means that you either have to bump both back or leave them the way they were. Do you now see the time discrepancy and the problems this causes for he MC and the other Spartans?

Yes, I see that my original idea is fraught with error, so I will return to the old theory drawing board :P
I still think the 14th is supposed to be the invasion date now though, and that the UNSC lasted for about 15 days now instead of 1.
If we push everything back then it remains unchanged and Red Team is still hastily set down at the generators. The Autumn receives a transmission from Halsey after retrieving Chief and sets down in the Aszod Ship Breaking Yards and aids in the defense there while waiting for the Package, and then Reach still falls on the 30th. I don't know why Chief wouldn't go try and join Read Team though.

Yeah you are but that's ok replay the mission and watch behind Halsey while she's talking and unplugging Cortana she had obviously just been going through the files of the remaining Noble Team with Cortana so she could choose her carrier.

I will at some point, I'm going through the campaign again currently because my campaign progress reset.

That is a typical Bungie excuse but it still bothers me. She can obviously access anything she wants in the UNSC network as evidenced by the fact that she did download Ackerson's files in GoO. But I suppose if that's what we're going to chalk it up to, that's that.

I thought she had downloaded them in First Strike when she first discovered them, and then got the chance to go over them in GoO, or am I wrong again? I haven't gotten that far through the books yet, I'm only half-way through First Strike.
Yes, some of the "ONI did it" excuses are troublesome and shoddy excuses, but I think this one isn't that shoddy, it can at least be fleshed out a bit more than "ONI did it".

I'd agree that Halsey probably could access anything she wanted, but I think she treads very carefully on this subject, you can only go so far so fast before you're found out and accused of treason.

  • 12.15.2010 10:51 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: OrderedComa

We are having this discussion of the Cole Protocol because of the Circumference, yes? As I've said earlier in this thread, we don't know when the Circumference came to Reach, and all the files of the ships existence were erased anyway, so it technically did not exist, and ONI is not exactly the most law-abiding branch of the UNSC government.


After the Cole Protocol was enacted there was a systems check of all orbiting and planetside databases for nav data, that is how the Circumference was found. It happened the moment the Cole Protocol was ordered so the moment the Autumn was called back. So it would have been known on the 14th and I don't think it would take the Chief 16 days to find and destroy the nav data. Because there is also the whole story of finding Johnson and Linda getting injured that takes place on the station again within a few hours.

So ONI did cover it up but the moment the Cole Protocol was enacted it was found. That's why we were discussing the Cole Protocol so you could realize that fact.


Yes, I see that my original idea is fraught with error, so I will return to the old theory drawing board :P
I still think the 14th is supposed to be the invasion date now though, and that the UNSC lasted for about 15 days now instead of 1.
If we push everything back then it remains unchanged and Red Team is still hastily set down at the generators. The Autumn receives a transmission from Halsey after retrieving Chief and sets down in the Aszod Ship Breaking Yards and aids in the defense there while waiting for the Package, and then Reach still falls on the 30th. I don't know why Chief wouldn't go try and join Read Team though.


Exactly the fact that the Spartan II's split up is the huge problem. The Chief had to be going to get the Circumference data because it was found the moment the Cole Protocol was enacted. Which is the reason why Red team was dropped and so many of them died. If they had 16 days to do this however the Autumn would have just dropped the Chief off at the station then dropped off Red team and come back for the chief. It throws the whole story out of whack.

I thought she had downloaded them in First Strike when she first discovered them, and then got the chance to go over them in GoO, or am I wrong again? I haven't gotten that far through the books yet, I'm only half-way through First Strike.
Yes, some of the "ONI did it" excuses are troublesome and shoddy excuses, but I think this one isn't that shoddy, it can at least be fleshed out a bit more than "ONI did it".

I'd agree that Halsey probably could access anything she wanted, but I think she treads very carefully on this subject, you can only go so far so fast before you're found out and accused of treason.

Yeah it was First Strike I often get the beginnings and end of those confused. But regardless of what book it was in the fact remained that it happened. I just don't like the excuse for it is all.

So it seems that we have slowly but surely come to an agreement that there are definite breaks in canon in Reach, or am I wrong?

[Edited on 12.15.2010 11:06 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2010 11:05 AM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
After the Cole Protocol was enacted there was a systems check of all orbiting and planetside databases for nav data, that is how the Circumference was found. It happened the moment the Cole Protocol was ordered so the moment the Autumn was called back. So it would have been known on the 14th and I don't think it would take the Chief 16 days to find and destroy the nav data. Because there is also the whole story of finding Johnson and Linda getting injured that takes place on the station again within a few hours.

So ONI did cover it up but the moment the Cole Protocol was enacted it was found. That's why we were discussing the Cole Protocol so you could realize that fact.


I don't think he took 16 days either, I guess I didn't make it clear enough that I postulated that the end of TFoR plays out like it should, except on the 14th, and the Autumn of course not leaving system yet. I said the Autumn picks him and his team up, and then either hangs around in orbit some more until getting Halsey's transmission, or gets it almost immediately after extracting Chief, and then hangs out in Aszod until the 30th.

Yeah it was First Strike I often get the beginnings and end of those confused. But regardless of what book it was in the fact remained that it happened. I just don't like the excuse for it is all.

So it seems that we have slowly but surely come to an agreement that there are definite breaks in canon in Reach, or am I wrong?


I was merely trying to clarify which book it was in. I will concede that from all I've seen the "ONI did it" excuse is used too often.

I wouldn't exactly say that, I will agree that there are some things that still need fixing and Bungie did not do as adequate a job making everything mesh as they claimed, but I do not think that the canon is completely destroyed, it just needs a good patch is all, it is still structurally sound, it just needs a little fix is all.

  • 12.15.2010 2:17 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: C SEC Agent
1. Reach's fall was extended tenfold in the game compared to the book.

2. PoA was never on Reach.

3. Where were the Orbital MAC guns?

4. By extension of #2, Cortana couldn't have been getting a piggyback ride from N6.

5. Jorge

The list goes on, up until around the number 15.
This all could have been fixed if 343 actually re-wrote TFoR instead of just adding a extra chapter. Simple things like have the PoA go down to Reach for a quick refit/regroup could have fixed lots of problems.

  • 12.15.2010 4:59 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: GanonSmash

Posted by: Spartan1065
No the dates in the book are all based on the UNSC standard military calendar not on the individual planets calenders. Go take a look, that doesn't account for the time difference.
Exactly, they all use the standard calendar, which is based on Earth's calendar. The game is based on reach's, which is 15 days off as of August 30th. It doesn't fix everything, but this seems to be a major fact that everyone is overlooking.

Ok so instead of 1 day being 24 hours they now have 27 hours. That is still far from the 16 days between the 14th and the 30th.
Reach uses a 390 day calendar, so it's not in sync with the Earth's days. August 14 on Reach and August 30 on Earth are, in fact, the same day.

  • 12.15.2010 6:55 PM PDT


Posted by: GanonSmash

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: GanonSmash

Posted by: Spartan1065
No the dates in the book are all based on the UNSC standard military calendar not on the individual planets calenders. Go take a look, that doesn't account for the time difference.
Exactly, they all use the standard calendar, which is based on Earth's calendar. The game is based on reach's, which is 15 days off as of August 30th. It doesn't fix everything, but this seems to be a major fact that everyone is overlooking.

Ok so instead of 1 day being 24 hours they now have 27 hours. That is still far from the 16 days between the 14th and the 30th.
Reach uses a 390 day calendar, so it's not in sync with the Earth's days. August 14 on Reach and August 30 on Earth are, in fact, the same day.


We seem to be on the same side, Ganon (nice name btw, love Legend of Zelda), only problem with your theory is that it doesn't explain how the battle is still longer in the game than the book :/ a good idea though

  • 12.15.2010 8:04 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: GanonSmash

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: GanonSmash

Posted by: Spartan1065
No the dates in the book are all based on the UNSC standard military calendar not on the individual planets calenders. Go take a look, that doesn't account for the time difference.
Exactly, they all use the standard calendar, which is based on Earth's calendar. The game is based on reach's, which is 15 days off as of August 30th. It doesn't fix everything, but this seems to be a major fact that everyone is overlooking.

Ok so instead of 1 day being 24 hours they now have 27 hours. That is still far from the 16 days between the 14th and the 30th.
Reach uses a 390 day calendar, so it's not in sync with the Earth's days. August 14 on Reach and August 30 on Earth are, in fact, the same day.


We seem to be on the same side, Ganon (nice name btw, love Legend of Zelda), only problem with your theory is that it doesn't explain how the battle is still longer in the game than the book :/ a good idea though
True... I feel lie there wouldn't be so much of a problem if Bungie did't decide to put so much time between LNoS and Exodus...

As much as it seems that the book and game are in complete conflict, I'm still holding out hope that there's a way that this can all work out... I don't believe that Bungie would just go as far out of their way as they did to create conflicts... They've said (in the Legendary commentary, I think) that the game and book fit together "like a puzzle", I just really want this to get solved. I'll keep working at it this week. Maybe I'll convert the times from the game to dates on the standard UNSC timeline and see if that provides any clues...

  • 12.15.2010 9:25 PM PDT


Posted by: GanonSmash
True... I feel lie there wouldn't be so much of a problem if Bungie did't decide to put so much time between LNoS and Exodus...

As much as it seems that the book and game are in complete conflict, I'm still holding out hope that there's a way that this can all work out... I don't believe that Bungie would just go as far out of their way as they did to create conflicts... They've said (in the Legendary commentary, I think) that the game and book fit together "like a puzzle", I just really want this to get solved. I'll keep working at it this week. Maybe I'll convert the times from the game to dates on the standard UNSC timeline and see if that provides any clues...


You should also read through the thread, me and some of the other people who are on our side of the debate have proposed some pretty good theories. There are also some good ideas that were thrown around in a thread by Privet Caboose.

  • 12.15.2010 9:45 PM PDT

Yes, I'm a girl, stop asking.

Republic Commando fans look here.

"This is the way the world ends, not with a bang or whimper, but with zombies breaking down the back door."

To bring up Caboose's earlier point about the Covenant ships heavily outnumbering the UNSC in the book, the biggest counter argument I've seen involving Reach's month long siege compared to just the day in FoR is that the UNSC is actually fighting back.

I think people are missing the point: The Covenant and the UNSC are not, in any way, evenly matched. The siege against Reach should never have lasted that long, I was honestly shocked when I did the math after I beat the game. Reach is one of the most important planets to the UNSC, and the Covenant would have realized this. In the books they do, they send over 750 ships to take over Reach and win in a day. And if it's not the importance of the planet to humanity, it's the importance of the Forerunner technology that would drive the Covenant.

Either way, they would want humanity gone as fast as possible, and they easily have the means to do so. A month, in my eyes, is not realistic given why the Covenant were there. Halo: Reach destroyed the significance the planet had in the Halo universe, and the power that the Covenant possessed in completely decimating the human race. A month? The UNSC would never have held out for that long with a planet as important as Reach.

Quick apology, sorry if my thoughts are a tad bit unorganized, I've been awake for 37 hours straight...

  • 12.15.2010 10:14 PM PDT

whats all this crap about it being pulled back? the fleet that arrived was said by holland to be a covenant fleet but it may not be it may just be a small fleet you see the ships that are seen are round 17 not 700, this fleet of 17 or so was kept on one half of reach from the army the navy had no knowledge of covenant on reach, this is my take on it

  • 12.16.2010 1:15 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Shotgunchief

I think people are missing the point: The Covenant and the UNSC are not, in any way, evenly matched. The siege against Reach should never have lasted that long, I was honestly shocked when I did the math after I beat the game. Reach is one of the most important planets to the UNSC, and the Covenant would have realized this. In the books they do, they send over 750 ships to take over Reach and win in a day. And if it's not the importance of the planet to humanity, it's the importance of the Forerunner technology that would drive the Covenant.

.

The only reason the covenant thought reach was important to us is becuase they thought it was our homeworld. And it was around 300 ships at reach not 750+, if they had that many there wouldn't have been a battle.

  • 12.16.2010 5:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: Shotgunchief
To bring up Caboose's earlier point about the Covenant ships heavily outnumbering the UNSC in the book, the biggest counter argument I've seen involving Reach's month long siege compared to just the day in FoR is that the UNSC is actually fighting back.

I think people are missing the point: The Covenant and the UNSC are not, in any way, evenly matched. The siege against Reach should never have lasted that long, I was honestly shocked when I did the math after I beat the game. Reach is one of the most important planets to the UNSC, and the Covenant would have realized this. In the books they do, they send over 750 ships to take over Reach and win in a day. And if it's not the importance of the planet to humanity, it's the importance of the Forerunner technology that would drive the Covenant.

Either way, they would want humanity gone as fast as possible, and they easily have the means to do so. A month, in my eyes, is not realistic given why the Covenant were there. Halo: Reach destroyed the significance the planet had in the Halo universe, and the power that the Covenant possessed in completely decimating the human race. A month? The UNSC would never have held out for that long with a planet as important as Reach.

Quick apology, sorry if my thoughts are a tad bit unorganized, I've been awake for 37 hours straight...


I believe the main fleet (whether 315 or 750 ships) didn't arrive until August 30.

August 14th we saw about 12 ships entering the system, but that doesn't have to mean that was the main whole Covenant fleet despite Holland's ''must be the whole damn Covenant fleet''

  • 12.16.2010 5:47 AM PDT