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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
  • Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon
Subject: Halo Reach Did not Destroy the Canon

Mike Lowery: [singing] Bad boys, bad boys what ya gonna do? What ya gonna do when we come for you?
[Marcus starts ad-libbing the first verse]
Mike Lowery: Dude, you gotta learn the words.
Marcus Burnett: We usually only do the chorus

In Halo 3 it was barley concievable to UNSC troops themselves that the dawn could fly in atmosphere so I think its unlikely the Pillar of Autumn would have been landed on the planet for work,besides why would they refit it planetside when it is so much easier in the zero G environment of space.

The POA didnt need to be landed on Reach Bungie could have just had a POA longsword waiting there for you,but no they ignore story for a nice setpiece.

  • 01.01.2011 2:58 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: nofatchicks6921

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.


The Covenant decimated the UNSC fleet and got their forces on Reach's surface in one day. And how could the UNSC defend Reach for about a month without putting up a fight? If they did lose in one day, wouldn't that mean they never put up a real fight? If Reach did in fact fall in one day, then there wouldn't have been ANY possible chance for the UNSC to win the war, not even with Maser Chief.


Missing the point. The length of the battle does not directly coincide with whether or not the UNSC put up a real fight. UNSC forces have usually only won space battles when they have an odd of three to one versus the covenant. (There are exceptions, but those are extremely rare)

The covenant's ship technologies simply outclass the UNSC by far too much. Most UNSC ships only have 1 MAC gun, and the smaller MACs mounted on frigates won't even break the shield of a covenant ship. The covenant, however, usually have more than one plasma turrets that can destroy an UNSC ship in a few shots. On top of that, covenant ships have shields and are usually larger than UNSC ships, meaning it takes more to take them down. The SMACs are the only true rivaling weapon against the Covenant fleet that was at Reach, and there were only 20 of them.

In the novel, there were 300 covenant ships vs about 100 UNSC ships and 20 ODPs. The UNSC would have needed-at the VERY least-300 ships to match the covenant, and that's assuming that they used the same tactic of having the refit stations be sacrificial shields.

According the game, there are over 700 ships at Reach...that means that the UNSC never stood a chance. How the hell did they even last more than a day? Let alone more than 2 weeks.

Reach should have fallen in one day according to the novels, and with the new additions made by the game, Reach should DEFINITELY have fallen in one day.

  • 01.01.2011 3:33 PM PDT

Halo is one of the most important part of my life.

It break it, whatever we wanted or not...

For me the books have more value in canon that the Game of Reach.

  • 01.01.2011 3:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: nofatchicks6921

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.


The Covenant decimated the UNSC fleet and got their forces on Reach's surface in one day. And how could the UNSC defend Reach for about a month without putting up a fight? If they did lose in one day, wouldn't that mean they never put up a real fight? If Reach did in fact fall in one day, then there wouldn't have been ANY possible chance for the UNSC to win the war, not even with Maser Chief.


Missing the point. The length of the battle does not directly coincide with whether or not the UNSC put up a real fight. UNSC forces have usually only won space battles when they have an odd of three to one versus the covenant. (There are exceptions, but those are extremely rare)

The covenant's ship technologies simply outclass the UNSC by far too much. Most UNSC ships only have 1 MAC gun, and the smaller MACs mounted on frigates won't even break the shield of a covenant ship. The covenant, however, usually have more than one plasma turrets that can destroy an UNSC ship in a few shots. On top of that, covenant ships have shields and are usually larger than UNSC ships, meaning it takes more to take them down. The SMACs are the only true rivaling weapon against the Covenant fleet that was at Reach, and there were only 20 of them.

In the novel, there were 300 covenant ships vs about 100 UNSC ships and 20 ODPs. The UNSC would have needed-at the VERY least-300 ships to match the covenant, and that's assuming that they used the same tactic of having the refit stations be sacrificial shields.

According the game, there are over 700 ships at Reach...that means that the UNSC never stood a chance. How the hell did they even last more than a day? Let alone more than 2 weeks.

Reach should have fallen in one day according to the novels, and with the new additions made by the game, Reach should DEFINITELY have fallen in one day.



But that info is only on space battles. You can't forget that there were very large ground forces for both factions on Reach, and that there were Spartans in the fighting, which would put the Covenant at the need for reinforcements, hence the larger number of Covy ships in Reach's orbit. The reason being that the UNSC lasted for more than one day on Reach was that the Covenant could not begin to glass the planet immediately, or else they would leave themselves wide open for attack. They had to eliminate all human opposition before glalssing Reach.

  • 01.01.2011 4:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: nofatchicks6921

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: nofatchicks6921

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.


The Covenant decimated the UNSC fleet and got their forces on Reach's surface in one day. And how could the UNSC defend Reach for about a month without putting up a fight? If they did lose in one day, wouldn't that mean they never put up a real fight? If Reach did in fact fall in one day, then there wouldn't have been ANY possible chance for the UNSC to win the war, not even with Maser Chief.


Missing the point. The length of the battle does not directly coincide with whether or not the UNSC put up a real fight. UNSC forces have usually only won space battles when they have an odd of three to one versus the covenant. (There are exceptions, but those are extremely rare)

The covenant's ship technologies simply outclass the UNSC by far too much. Most UNSC ships only have 1 MAC gun, and the smaller MACs mounted on frigates won't even break the shield of a covenant ship. The covenant, however, usually have more than one plasma turrets that can destroy an UNSC ship in a few shots. On top of that, covenant ships have shields and are usually larger than UNSC ships, meaning it takes more to take them down. The SMACs are the only true rivaling weapon against the Covenant fleet that was at Reach, and there were only 20 of them.

In the novel, there were 300 covenant ships vs about 100 UNSC ships and 20 ODPs. The UNSC would have needed-at the VERY least-300 ships to match the covenant, and that's assuming that they used the same tactic of having the refit stations be sacrificial shields.

According the game, there are over 700 ships at Reach...that means that the UNSC never stood a chance. How the hell did they even last more than a day? Let alone more than 2 weeks.

Reach should have fallen in one day according to the novels, and with the new additions made by the game, Reach should DEFINITELY have fallen in one day.



But that info is only on space battles. You can't forget that there were very large ground forces for both factions on Reach, and that there were Spartans in the fighting, which would put the Covenant at the need for reinforcements, hence the larger number of Covy ships in Reach's orbit. The reason being that the UNSC lasted for more than one day on Reach was that the Covenant could not begin to glass the planet immediately, or else they would leave themselves wide open for attack. They had to eliminate all human opposition before glalssing Reach.


Well of course these info only include the space battles, because that is what decides which side was winning. Nothing should have been changed for the space battle; covenant wins in one day. And that really doesn't change anything for the ground battle either. The fighting on the ground never ended in one day even in TFoR, although by the end of the day it was more human resistance than armies fighting.

There were large forces fighting on Reach from both sides, but that isn't really a factor. From what we know in TFoR, the covenant had far superior air support for the most part since they send down cruisers, and the UNSC, specifically at the ODP generators, were quickly overrun, which contributes further to the loss of the space battle. The Spartans were too few to turn the tide of battle, even though they inflicted heavy casualties on the covenant. Spartans are not gods, they are mortal too, and this is one of the ways Bungie could have shown their humanity instead of turning them into drama queens.

At which point the covenant dominated Reach's orbit, and they had no reason not to start glassing it. There was practically no human opposition left, in space or otherwise. Again, over 300 covenant ships in either version (game or novel), and 1 covenant ship can take on 3 UNSC ships. The humans didn't stand a chance.

  • 01.01.2011 5:29 PM PDT

just to point out for the hell of it I guess and for those who dont know in Halo reach we are The Army NOT the Navy which we are in CE,2,odst,3

  • 01.01.2011 6:24 PM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

With the Limited and Legendary editions of Reach, there was a piece of paper which says:

You are now in possession of the most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach.

I suspect your interest in all of this has something to do with your involvement in Operation WHITE GLOVE. Coincidentally, Halsey made multiple inquiries about NOBLE just as everything started going all to hell. She's the one loose end that may never be wrapped up satisfactorily - no body, no closure. In any event, I secured the next best thing for you. Section 0 has had it for some time - so there's that - but I think you'll find enough intel in here for your purposes.

-W


Who is W?
And this does leave a bit of wiggle room with the story, as it says "The most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach."Therefore, the events depicted in the game can be classified as unreliable intel, subject to human bias because they are the "most accurate" anyone has been able to produce. This does not necessarily mean they are the correct series of events that took place. They could have been exaggerated greatly by ONI for propaganda purposes. For example ONI would have increased the size of the Supercarrier so that when they blew it up, it showed civilians and military that the Covenant can be beaten, no matter how big their ships are.

This also means that ONI would have edited out the less interesting parts, or parts that showed the UNSC loosing badly, and edited in parts such as the PoA being on Reach and then taking off, because they (ONI) thought that a single Longsword was not exciting enough to boost the troops' morale. This opens up the idea that ONI skewed the dates of the entire conflict, so as to make it look like the UNSC can hold out against the Covenant, albeit not indefinitely. Again, this would be morale boosting.

This means that the Pillar of Autumn is not on Reach, and the Cortana Fragment was picked up by Keyes, albeit in a Longsword, and the interactive disc (Halo: Reach game disc) has been edited by ONI to improve the storyline, to make it more epic, if you will.

Noble Team's involvements in the conflict could also have been manipulated for storyline purposes, such as the Long Night of Solace action. It may have just been shot by an ODP, but this was changed to make the protagonists seem more involved int the defence of Reach. This implies that Jorge died in a less heroic way, such as being assassinated by an Elite or he was blown up by a Wraith tank.

ONI could have changed the details of Noble Team's deaths, so as to make the story more tragic, which leads me to the possibility that Noble Six never died, as his actions in "Lone Wolf" are falsified for the purposes of a good war movie. The reason I say they were falsified is because there were no living UNSC soldiers or civilians in the area, and the whole area was glassed anyway, erasing any recordings the helmet cameras might have made. Therefore, Six may still be alive, and floating through space in a Pelican, or on another Human colony.

The part of the letter I quoted be interpreted as:
"We (ONI) had a cursory look round Reach at the end of the war, found this Journal, and made up most of the rest of what's on the interactive disc (Reach game disc) to suit our needs, and show how Noble team sacrificed themselves to defend Reach."

I hate to say it but Bungie covered themselves pretty well with this one letter. Essentially this letter could make the whole Halo:Reach plot irrelevant, and there is actually another story, yet to be told.

Orphius.

[Edited on 03.20.2011 1:04 PM PDT]

  • 01.02.2011 3:21 AM PDT


Posted by: Orphius_Rex
With the Limited and Legendary editions of Reach, there was a piece of paper which says:

You are now in possession of the most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach.

I suspect your interest in all of this has something to do with your involvement in Operation WHITE GLOVE. Coincidentally, Halsey made multiple inquiries about NOBLE just as everything started going all to hell. She's the one loose end that may never be wrapped up satisfactorily - no body, no closure. In any event, I secured the next best thing for you. Section 0 has had it for some time - so there's that - but I think you'll find enough intel in here for your purposes.

-W


Who is W?
And this does leave a bit of wiggle room with the story, as it says "The most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach."Therefore, the events depicted in the game can be classified as unreliable intel, subject to human bias because they are the "most accurate" anyone has been able to produce. This does not necessarily mean they are the correct series of events that took place. They could have been exaggerated greatly by ONI for propaganda purposes. For example ONI would have increased the size of the Supercarrier so that when they blew it up, it showed civilians and military that the Covenant can be beaten, no matter how big their ships are.

This also means that ONI would have edited out the less interesting parts, or parts that showed the UNSC loosing badly, and edited in parts such as the PoA being on Reach and then taking off, because they (ONI) thought that a single Longsword was not exciting enough to boost the troops' morale. This opens up the idea that ONI skewed the dates of the entire conflict, so as to make it look like the UNSC can hold out against the Covenant, albeit not indefinitely. Again, this would be morale boosting.

This means that the Pillar of Autumn is not on Reach, and the Cortana Fragment was picked up by Keyes, albeit in a Longsword, and the interactive disc (Halo: Reach game disc) has been edited by ONI to improve the storyline, to make it more epic, if you will.

Noble Team's involvements in the conflict could also have been manipulated for storyline purposes, such as the Long Night of Solace action. It may have just been shot by an ODP, but this was changed to make the protagonists seem more involved int the defence of Reach. This implies that Jorge died in a less heroic way, such as being assassinated by an Elite or he was blown up by a Wraith tank.

ONI could have changed the details of Noble Team's deaths, so as to make the story more tragic, which leads me to the possibility that Noble Six never died, as his actions in "Lone Wolf" are falsified for the purposes of a good war movie. The reason I say they were falsified is because there were no living UNSC soldiers or civilians in the area, and the whole area was glassed anyway, erasing any recordings the helmet cameras might have made. Therefore, Six may still be alive, and floating through space in a Pelican, or on another Human colony.

The part of the letter I quoted be interpreted as:
"We (ONI) had a cursory look round Reach at the end of the war, found this Journal, and made up most of the rest of what's on the interactive disc (Reach game disc) to suit our needs, and show how Noble team sacrificed themselves to defend Reach."

I hate to say it but Bungie covered themselves pretty well with this one letter. Essentially this letter could make the whole Halo:Reach plot irrelevant, and there is actually another story, yet to be told.

Orphius.
thats quite brilliant but wouldnt that mean we paid money for nothing in terms of campaign? but hey if we get more on reach then hell yeah perhaps a ODST thing

[Edited on 01.02.2011 3:34 AM PST]

  • 01.02.2011 3:32 AM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
With the Limited and Legendary editions of Reach, there was a piece of paper which says:

You are now in possession of the most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach.

I suspect your interest in all of this has something to do with your involvement in Operation WHITE GLOVE. Coincidentally, Halsey made multiple inquiries about NOBLE just as everything started going all to hell. She's the one loose end that may never be wrapped up satisfactorily - no body, no closure. In any event, I secured the next best thing for you. Section 0 has had it for some time - so there's that - but I think you'll find enough intel in here for your purposes.

-W


Who is W?
And this does leave a bit of wiggle room with the story, as it says "The most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach."Therefore, the events depicted in the game can be classified as unreliable intel, subject to human bias because they are the "most accurate" anyone has been able to produce. This does not necessarily mean they are the correct series of events that took place. They could have been exaggerated greatly by ONI for propaganda purposes. For example ONI would have increased the size of the Supercarrier so that when they blew it up, it showed civilians and military that the Covenant can be beaten, no matter how big their ships are.

This also means that ONI would have edited out the less interesting parts, or parts that showed the UNSC loosing badly, and edited in parts such as the PoA being on Reach and then taking off, because they (ONI) thought that a single Longsword was not exciting enough to boost the troops' morale. This opens up the idea that ONI skewed the dates of the entire conflict, so as to make it look like the UNSC can hold out against the Covenant, albeit not indefinitely. Again, this would be morale boosting.

This means that the Pillar of Autumn is not on Reach, and the Cortana Fragment was picked up by Keyes, albeit in a Longsword, and the interactive disc (Halo: Reach game disc) has been edited by ONI to improve the storyline, to make it more epic, if you will.

Noble Team's involvements in the conflict could also have been manipulated for storyline purposes, such as the Long Night of Solace action. It may have just been shot by an ODP, but this was changed to make the protagonists seem more involved int the defence of Reach. This implies that Jorge died in a less heroic way, such as being assassinated by an Elite or he was blown up by a Wraith tank.

ONI could have changed the details of Noble Team's deaths, so as to make the story more tragic, which leads me to the possibility that Noble Six never died, as his actions in "Lone Wolf" are falsified for the purposes of a good war movie. The reason I say they were falsified is because there were no living UNSC soldiers or civilians in the area, and the whole area was glassed anyway, erasing any recordings the helmet cameras might have made. Therefore, Six may still be alive, and floating through space in a Pelican, or on another Human colony.

The part of the letter I quoted be interpreted as:
"We (ONI) had a cursory look round Reach at the end of the war, found this Journal, and made up most of the rest of what's on the interactive disc (Reach game disc) to suit our needs, and show how Noble team sacrificed themselves to defend Reach."

I hate to say it but Bungie covered themselves pretty well with this one letter. Essentially this letter could make the whole Halo:Reach plot irrelevant, and there is actually another story, yet to be told.

Orphius.
thats quite brilliant but wouldnt that mean we paid money for nothing in terms of campaign? but hey if we get more on reach then hell yeah perhaps a ODST thing


Well, maybe we did, but I wouldn't mind a campaign add-on clearing everything up...

  • 01.02.2011 3:50 AM PDT

First off; I did NOT read the books or view any of the other materiel other than the games.

However; in my opinion there are a few things that seem a little bit odd in the story behind Halo Reach.

First off is when the covenant corvette besieges sword base. How a corvette class ship managed to sneak past the orbital defences is not the issue here. What concerns me is why no one bothered to chase it off sooner. Longsword fighters are clearly a threat to it as it descided to run from just two.
So why did they have to come from sword base itself? couldn't they just scramble a few from other bases or from space stations?

Another issue is the poorly planned attack on the supercarrier. where are all the nukes? They couldn't possibly have all gone down with the ships because the main covenant fleet hadn't yet arrived. So a small force of corvettes had somehow managed to destroy every nuke in the system? What about ground bases? And why did the supercarrier return to space after taking out the Grafton?
Plus the entire priciple of a refuelling run in space seems wierd as well. Why would a hyper-sophisticated warship need fuel, I thought they had fusion reactors, wich suposedly last for ages before needing to be refueled. So why risk it during battle?

And when the Covenant attack new alexandria. Why don't they just bomb the entire city from the air? Why do they insist on risking the lives of their ground troops if all they want to do is kill as many humans as possible? And why wait for the civilian transports to take off before you shoot at them, destroying them on the ground makes a lot more military sense.

Then there's the whole situation with the retaking of sword base. Carter says the covenant are defending for a major strike so they'll go in quietly. Yet your character practically blows through the main gate with a tank.

And of course, last but not least; what is the pillar of Autumn doing on the ground? Landing an entire cruiser doesn't make sense to me. When you think about it, the fact that the entire ship was there practically doomed Emile and six. If it was just a group of pelicans, they would both have gotten out.

  • 01.02.2011 8:43 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.

quote for -blam!- truth

  • 01.02.2011 8:55 AM PDT


Posted by: Orphius_Rex
Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
With the Limited and Legendary editions of Reach, there was a piece of paper which says:

You are now in possession of the most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach.

I suspect your interest in all of this has something to do with your involvement in Operation WHITE GLOVE. Coincidentally, Halsey made multiple inquiries about NOBLE just as everything started going all to hell. She's the one loose end that may never be wrapped up satisfactorily - no body, no closure. In any event, I secured the next best thing for you. Section 0 has had it for some time - so there's that - but I think you'll find enough intel in here for your purposes.

-W


Who is W?
And this does leave a bit of wiggle room with the story, as it says "The most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach."Therefore, the events depicted in the game can be classified as unreliable intel, subject to human bias because they are the "most accurate" anyone has been able to produce. This does not necessarily mean they are the correct series of events that took place. They could have been exaggerated greatly by ONI for propaganda purposes. For example ONI would have increased the size of the Supercarrier so that when they blew it up, it showed civilians and military that the Covenant can be beaten, no matter how big their ships are.

This also means that ONI would have edited out the less interesting parts, or parts that showed the UNSC loosing badly, and edited in parts such as the PoA being on Reach and then taking off, because they (ONI) thought that a single Longsword was not exciting enough to boost the troops' morale. This opens up the idea that ONI skewed the dates of the entire conflict, so as to make it look like the UNSC can hold out against the Covenant, albeit not indefinitely. Again, this would be morale boosting.

This means that the Pillar of Autumn is not on Reach, and the Cortana Fragment was picked up by Keyes, albeit in a Longsword, and the interactive disc (Halo: Reach game disc) has been edited by ONI to improve the storyline, to make it more epic, if you will.

Noble Team's involvements in the conflict could also have been manipulated for storyline purposes, such as the Long Night of Solace action. It may have just been shot by an ODP, but this was changed to make the protagonists seem more involved int the defence of Reach. This implies that Jorge died in a less heroic way, such as being assassinated by an Elite or he was blown up by a Wraith tank.

ONI could have changed the details of Noble Team's deaths, so as to make the story more tragic, which leads me to the possibility that Noble Six never died, as his actions in "Lone Wolf" are falsified for the purposes of a good war movie. The reason I say they were falsified is because there were no living UNSC soldiers or civilians in the area, and the whole area was glassed anyway, erasing any recordings the helmet cameras might have made. Therefore, Six may still be alive, and floating through space in a Pelican, or on another Human colony.

The part of the letter I quoted be interpreted as:
"We (ONI) had a cursory look round Reach at the end of the war, found this Journal, and made up most of the rest of what's on the interactive disc (Reach game disc) to suit our needs, and show how Noble team sacrificed themselves to defend Reach."

I hate to say it but Bungie covered themselves pretty well with this one letter. Essentially this letter could make the whole Halo:Reach plot irrelevant, and there is actually another story, yet to be told.

Orphius.
thats quite brilliant but wouldnt that mean we paid money for nothing in terms of campaign? but hey if we get more on reach then hell yeah perhaps a ODST thing


Well, maybe we did, but I wouldn't mind a campaign add-on clearing everything up...
same here man BUNGIE or 343 give us a halo reach ODST or DLC campaign add on Screw Multyplayer

  • 01.02.2011 4:51 PM PDT

I gaze upon the stars and see the majesty that is the universe.


EGO mos bulla astrum.


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Pipboy 3050
Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.


Oh dear caboose.
Why cant you accept that the story could have just Re-conned?


The word you're looking for is retconned. And you've just said it, Reach was simply a massive retcon. You know why things get retconned? Because they contradict canon, the game contradicts canon, it is a retcon over the books.

And anyone with the slightest care for Halo canon shouldn't have to accept a giant middle finger at a decade's worth of work.


If that book were followed to the letter, then there would be no others. I have read the book and it would have ruined any chance of making good games. Halo Reach would have been a horribly dull game. Plus, Halo Reach wasn't the first thing to retcon the book. Halo Wars did, Halo Contact Harvest did and Halo Reach was just latest in the pile. I'd prefer not to follow that book thank you.

  • 01.02.2011 6:13 PM PDT

I gaze upon the stars and see the majesty that is the universe.


EGO mos bulla astrum.


Posted by: Sparty Boy 117

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.

quote for -blam!- truth


The book made is look like a horribly weak fight. Other military engagements in the books took days to finish with the UNSC. In the book, UNSC ground forces and space forces were decimated in a matter of hours while in Halo Reach they actually put up a massive campaign only to lose in the end.

  • 01.02.2011 6:15 PM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
With the Limited and Legendary editions of Reach, there was a piece of paper which says:

You are now in possession of the most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach.

I suspect your interest in all of this has something to do with your involvement in Operation WHITE GLOVE. Coincidentally, Halsey made multiple inquiries about NOBLE just as everything started going all to hell. She's the one loose end that may never be wrapped up satisfactorily - no body, no closure. In any event, I secured the next best thing for you. Section 0 has had it for some time - so there's that - but I think you'll find enough intel in here for your purposes.

-W


Who is W?
And this does leave a bit of wiggle room with the story, as it says "The most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions during the final weeks before the Covenant glassed Reach."Therefore, the events depicted in the game can be classified as unreliable intel, subject to human bias because they are the "most accurate" anyone has been able to produce. This does not necessarily mean they are the correct series of events that took place. They could have been exaggerated greatly by ONI for propaganda purposes. For example ONI would have increased the size of the Supercarrier so that when they blew it up, it showed civilians and military that the Covenant can be beaten, no matter how big their ships are.

This also means that ONI would have edited out the less interesting parts, or parts that showed the UNSC loosing badly, and edited in parts such as the PoA being on Reach and then taking off, because they (ONI) thought that a single Longsword was not exciting enough to boost the troops' morale. This opens up the idea that ONI skewed the dates of the entire conflict, so as to make it look like the UNSC can hold out against the Covenant, albeit not indefinitely. Again, this would be morale boosting.

This means that the Pillar of Autumn is not on Reach, and the Cortana Fragment was picked up by Keyes, albeit in a Longsword, and the interactive disc (Halo: Reach game disc) has been edited by ONI to improve the storyline, to make it more epic, if you will.

Noble Team's involvements in the conflict could also have been manipulated for storyline purposes, such as the Long Night of Solace action. It may have just been shot by an ODP, but this was changed to make the protagonists seem more involved int the defence of Reach. This implies that Jorge died in a less heroic way, such as being assassinated by an Elite or he was blown up by a Wraith tank.

ONI could have changed the details of Noble Team's deaths, so as to make the story more tragic, which leads me to the possibility that Noble Six never died, as his actions in "Lone Wolf" are falsified for the purposes of a good war movie. The reason I say they were falsified is because there were no living UNSC soldiers or civilians in the area, and the whole area was glassed anyway, erasing any recordings the helmet cameras might have made. Therefore, Six may still be alive, and floating through space in a Pelican, or on another Human colony.

The part of the letter I quoted be interpreted as:
"We (ONI) had a cursory look round Reach at the end of the war, found this Journal, and made up most of the rest of what's on the interactive disc (Reach game disc) to suit our needs, and show how Noble team sacrificed themselves to defend Reach."

I hate to say it but Bungie covered themselves pretty well with this one letter. Essentially this letter could make the whole Halo:Reach plot irrelevant, and there is actually another story, yet to be told.

Orphius.
thats quite brilliant but wouldnt that mean we paid money for nothing in terms of campaign? but hey if we get more on reach then hell yeah perhaps a ODST thing


Well, maybe we did, but I wouldn't mind a campaign add-on clearing everything up...
same here man BUNGIE or 343 give us a halo reach ODST or DLC campaign add on Screw Multyplayer


An add on that follows Red Team? I'd love that.

  • 01.03.2011 12:13 AM PDT


Posted by: LeBlanc172
I really don't understand. How can the company that created halo ruin the cannon. I really don't understand how it is possible.


i agree! Lets use logic Games=main cannon, books= extra stuff that gives us something to do when we're not playing the game

  • 01.03.2011 12:26 AM PDT


Posted by: Hamedolk
It break it, whatever we wanted or not...

For me the books have more value in canon that the Game of Reach.


lets clear that up

"For me the books written by random people have more value in canon than the game, that was actually made by the people who started the halo series in the first place"

  • 01.03.2011 12:32 AM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: brpoll

Posted by: Hamedolk
It break it, whatever we wanted or not...

For me the books have more value in canon that the Game of Reach.


lets clear that up

"For me the books written by random people have more value in canon than the game, that was actually made by the people who started the halo series in the first place"


Go away. The books are canon. And he believes they are better and more accurate than the story told in Halo:Reach. No one likes people like you, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

  • 01.03.2011 1:10 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: ArtooFeva

Posted by: Sparty Boy 117

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.

quote for -blam!- truth


The book made is look like a horribly weak fight. Other military engagements in the books took days to finish with the UNSC. In the book, UNSC ground forces and space forces were decimated in a matter of hours while in Halo Reach they actually put up a massive campaign only to lose in the end.


Horribly weak fight?! It was 750 Covenant ships to the UNSC's few hundred. Even with 20(somewhere around there, the exact number escapes me.) Orbital mac cannons, the UNSC almost always had to outnumber the Covenant to win. Not be outnumbered so horribly. The UNSC had no chance of defending Reach when that fleet showed up, it was the largest fleet ever encountered. (Until Delta Halo.)

The UNSC put up a hell of a fight anyway, not only in space, but on the surface as well. First Strike elaborates on the ground battle and showed the chaos perfectly. There was no chance the UNSC could've won, not when they were outnumbered three to one. If it hadn't fallen in a day, it would've been a miracle.

  • 01.03.2011 1:22 PM PDT

Twitter | Nothing

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: ArtooFeva

Posted by: Sparty Boy 117

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.

quote for -blam!- truth


The book made is look like a horribly weak fight. Other military engagements in the books took days to finish with the UNSC. In the book, UNSC ground forces and space forces were decimated in a matter of hours while in Halo Reach they actually put up a massive campaign only to lose in the end.


Horribly weak fight?! It was 750 Covenant ships to the UNSC's few hundred. Even with 20(somewhere around there, the exact number escapes me.) Orbital mac cannons, the UNSC almost always had to outnumber the Covenant to win. Not be outnumbered so horribly. The UNSC had no chance of defending Reach when that fleet showed up, it was the largest fleet ever encountered. (Until Delta Halo.)

The UNSC put up a hell of a fight anyway, not only in space, but on the surface as well. First Strike elaborates on the ground battle and showed the chaos perfectly. There was no chance the UNSC could've won, not when they were outnumbered three to one. If it hadn't fallen in a day, it would've been a miracle.


This pretty much sums it up. There is no real way the UNSC could have held out for longer. When the Covenant invaded Reach, they did so with the intent of totally destroying it. They through everything at Reach. There was just no chance for the UNSC to survive for any extended period of time.

The UNSC knew their best defence was in secrecy, hence the Cole Protocol, because they knew in the end that in big straight out battles they couldn't win.

  • 01.04.2011 3:54 PM PDT


Posted by: snaky jones
In Halo 3 it was barley concievable to UNSC troops themselves that the dawn could fly in atmosphere so I think its unlikely the Pillar of Autumn would have been landed on the planet for work,besides why would they refit it planetside when it is so much easier in the zero G environment of space.
Because you need a massive amount of materials that are already available on the planet.

  • 01.04.2011 5:35 PM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa
Why would Bungie give the writers the whole Halo Bible? It's their most closely guarded secret, they're not going to just casually hand out the whole thing.

An NDA covers that concern wholly. It simply isn't an issue at all.

Posted by: Admonitor
Hell the only way this makes sense is if the UNSC is the most inept military organization in the history of the universe.

Except for their counter-intelligence operations, which would apparently be top-notch.
Essentially, all the Innies and their tin-hat ideas would be further validated by the UNSC's conduct at Reach, more than just kidnapping children and making them into killing machines could ever have done.
Anyone else starting to get a Star Wars vibe from this. I personally cannot wait until they adopt a B canon model/sarcasm
To be fair, a lot of the EU that got abandoned when the Star Wars prequels came out was utter crap, like when some washed-up Imperials decided that cloning the Emperor was the best way to reconquer the galaxy.
The Fall of Reach, on the other hand, was not utter crap, but was replaced with mediocrity distilled into a plot and then pressed onto DVDs.

Posted by: GanonSmash
Reach uses a 390 day calendar, so it's not in sync with the Earth's days. August 14 on Reach and August 30 on Earth are, in fact, the same day.

You're missing something: The date itself is not the (only) issue, but also the duration. Stating that the two planets use un-sync'd calendars addresses the date itself, but does nothing to resolve the discrepant durations.

Posted by: TimiderWord8
Because you need a massive amount of materials that are already available on the planet.

Except you'll eat up vastly more fuel getting a cruiser down to the surface and back into orbit than you would simply moving the components to an orbital shipyard, never mind the unnecessary risk of moving a large (almost 1.2 km long), expensive ship through atmosphere- never mind whether it was rated for atmospheric maneuvers or not. Components dropped and burnt up cost much less and pose a far lesser hazard than a whole cruiser tumbling towards the surface.
Besides that, purely from appearances I'd still wager the new-build and refurbishment shipyards are in orbit or nearby in-system. A lot of the stuff on the ground looks like long-term-storage or a reserve fleet, and the more beat-up areas look like parts-stripping and scrap processing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_fleet

@Orphius_Rex: I have a regular Reach box so I can't read the letter myself, but it looks as though the letter implies an attempt at least at an accurate reconstrucion made for/at the request of someone involved in wiping data and AIs from CASLTE (WHITE GLOVE), so they ought to be cleared to a pretty high level, yet you are arguing propaganda? Doesn't propaganda have to target a fairly public audience to actually be propaganda?
It would seem you can't argue it's propaganda, unless it was also a staged leak to the masses. (I hope it's true, though, even if it is a cop-out.)


The new game does indeed supersede the older novel as canon (as do all the games), but while it may be canon, Reach is also shoddy, sloppy writing.
Of greater concern- as a rewrite could be done with sufficient effort to fix the canon around Reach- is whether or not all the retconning will directly affect First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx, as well as the second and third games. TFoR sets up a fair amount of the events in the following two novels, and they relate directly to the plots of the next two main games.
That rewrite has yet to be done, however. If they were going to retconn so much, then they should have addressed the effect(s) on these other novels immediately, not left us out in the cold to wonder and stew indefinitely. No good comes of that.

This latest game's plot- assuming it isn't propaganda as speculated above- when taken in the context of other and previous canon can only be explained either by apathy or incompetence.

  • 01.05.2011 4:10 PM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: TheAsterisk
Posted by: OrderedComa
Why would Bungie give the writers the whole Halo Bible? It's their most closely guarded secret, they're not going to just casually hand out the whole thing.

An NDA covers that concern wholly. It simply isn't an issue at all.

Posted by: Admonitor
Hell the only way this makes sense is if the UNSC is the most inept military organization in the history of the universe.

Except for their counter-intelligence operations, which would apparently be top-notch.
Essentially, all the Innies and their tin-hat ideas would be further validated by the UNSC's conduct at Reach, more than just kidnapping children and making them into killing machines could ever have done.
Anyone else starting to get a Star Wars vibe from this. I personally cannot wait until they adopt a B canon model/sarcasm
To be fair, a lot of the EU that got abandoned when the Star Wars prequels came out was utter crap, like when some washed-up Imperials decided that cloning the Emperor was the best way to reconquer the galaxy.
The Fall of Reach, on the other hand, was not utter crap, but was replaced with mediocrity distilled into a plot and then pressed onto DVDs.

Posted by: GanonSmash
Reach uses a 390 day calendar, so it's not in sync with the Earth's days. August 14 on Reach and August 30 on Earth are, in fact, the same day.

You're missing something: The date itself is not the (only) issue, but also the duration. Stating that the two planets use un-sync'd calendars addresses the date itself, but does nothing to resolve the discrepant durations.

Posted by: TimiderWord8
Because you need a massive amount of materials that are already available on the planet.

Except you'll eat up vastly more fuel getting a cruiser down to the surface and back into orbit than you would simply moving the components to an orbital shipyard, never mind the unnecessary risk of moving a large (almost 1.2 km long), expensive ship through atmosphere- never mind whether it was rated for atmospheric maneuvers or not. Components dropped and burnt up cost much less and pose a far lesser hazard than a whole cruiser tumbling towards the surface.
Besides that, purely from appearances I'd still wager the new-build and refurbishment shipyards are in orbit or nearby in-system. A lot of the stuff on the ground looks like long-term-storage or a reserve fleet, and the more beat-up areas look like parts-stripping and scrap processing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_fleet

@Orphius_Rex: I have a regular Reach box so I can't read the letter myself, but it looks as though the letter implies an attempt at least at an accurate reconstrucion made for/at the request of someone involved in wiping data and AIs from CASLTE (WHITE GLOVE), so they ought to be cleared to a pretty high level, yet you are arguing propaganda? Doesn't propaganda have to target a fairly public audience to actually be propaganda?
It would seem you can't argue it's propaganda, unless it was also a staged leak to the masses. (I hope it's true, though, even if it is a cop-out.)


The new game does indeed supersede the older novel as canon (as do all the games), but while it may be canon, Reach is also shoddy, sloppy writing.
Of greater concern- as a rewrite could be done with sufficient effort to fix the canon around Reach- is whether or not all the retconning will directly affect First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx, as well as the second and third games. TFoR sets up a fair amount of the events in the following two novels, and they relate directly to the plots of the next two main games.
That rewrite has yet to be done, however. If they were going to retconn so much, then they should have addressed the effect(s) on these other novels immediately, not left us out in the cold to wonder and stew indefinitely. No good comes of that.

This latest game's plot- assuming it isn't propaganda as speculated above- when taken in the context of other and previous canon can only be explained either by apathy or incompetence.


Though technically seeing as I'm not the only one with the letter, then it could have been distributed to the general public... I don't want it to be propaganda though. It was just an idea. And I did post the entire letter up there, so you can read it if you want.

  • 01.07.2011 1:07 AM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: nofatchicks6921

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach did break canon.

Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day.

The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony.


The Covenant decimated the UNSC fleet and got their forces on Reach's surface in one day. And how could the UNSC defend Reach for about a month without putting up a fight? If they did lose in one day, wouldn't that mean they never put up a real fight? If Reach did in fact fall in one day, then there wouldn't have been ANY possible chance for the UNSC to win the war, not even with Maser Chief.


Missing the point. The length of the battle does not directly coincide with whether or not the UNSC put up a real fight. UNSC forces have usually only won space battles when they have an odd of three to one versus the covenant. (There are exceptions, but those are extremely rare)

The covenant's ship technologies simply outclass the UNSC by far too much. Most UNSC ships only have 1 MAC gun, and the smaller MACs mounted on frigates won't even break the shield of a covenant ship. The covenant, however, usually have more than one plasma turrets that can destroy an UNSC ship in a few shots. On top of that, covenant ships have shields and are usually larger than UNSC ships, meaning it takes more to take them down. The SMACs are the only true rivaling weapon against the Covenant fleet that was at Reach, and there were only 20 of them.

In the novel, there were 300 covenant ships vs about 100 UNSC ships and 20 ODPs. The UNSC would have needed-at the VERY least-300 ships to match the covenant, and that's assuming that they used the same tactic of having the refit stations be sacrificial shields.

According the game, there are over 700 ships at Reach...that means that the UNSC never stood a chance. How the hell did they even last more than a day? Let alone more than 2 weeks.

Reach should have fallen in one day according to the novels, and with the new additions made by the game, Reach should DEFINITELY have fallen in one day.

you do know the 700 ships are in the games ending on august 30th and in the refitted FOR book. and you do know up untill the 30th we were fighting a Advance convenant war party looking for forerunner artifacts.

  • 01.07.2011 1:29 AM PDT
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UWG

My jokes, so I don't lose them (ignore this):
ZedFish's Opinion on Sgt. Foley.
ZedFish's Forerunner Rickroll.

Posted by: ArtooFeva
If that book were followed to the letter, then there would be no others. I have read the book and it would have ruined any chance of making good games. Halo Reach would have been a horribly dull game. Plus, Halo Reach wasn't the first thing to retcon the book. Halo Wars did, Halo Contact Harvest did and Halo Reach was just latest in the pile. I'd prefer not to follow that book thank you.
Thank you, good sir.

I will add to this, by saying that of all the Halo books, Fall of Reach has the most mistakes, inconsistencies and typos. Do I trust it? Hell no. They couldn't even fix their blam with the reprint.

It's a great story, but it ain't no canon masterpiece.

[Edited on 01.07.2011 4:30 AM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 4:30 AM PDT