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  • Subject: Why did Bungie not follow the cannon
Subject: Why did Bungie not follow the cannon
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
Posted by: OrderedComa
I couldn't have said it better myself Venator, though I don't really agree with your assumption that the fleet of August 14th being an advance strike force.

It's my thought that Bungie moved the date of the fleet's arrival from the 30th back to the 14th. Everything else I think is pretty much spot-on, considering what information we have available to us.

If only more people would look into the issue with a more open mind like you did, keep up the good work, I got your back, those of us with a common mindset must stick together :P
It's not so much the fact that things are changed - although I find the amount of things changed excessive, and means that the copy of TFOR I bought to expand the Halo Universe is close to worthless around the Sigma Octanus IV section.

My problem is a simple cause and effect, which I have iterated multiple times in the thread.
Seemingly minor things like Blue and Red teams not being able to be deployed can really clusterblam other things, when you realise that upsets anything to do with Linda in First Strike, and that there are now 5 extra SPARTANS who were not killed in their operations they did not take when and how they originally did.
First Strike's description of Red Team's operation follows TFOR exactly. So Halo Reach stomps all over much of First Strike in that aspect as well. If Blue Team doesn't make orbit, then Johnson is forgotten from the entirety of the series. Scratch key plot point of First Strike. Plus Jenkins cannot be on Alpha Halo and does not get infected - and Lt McKay does not use his plight and suffering to destroy the Truth and Reconciliation and the survivors of PoA, which then theoretically makes it back to earth with masses of Covenant technology. Scratch epic plot point of The Flood, and screw up the history of the remainder of the trilogy from CE onwards.

It's like asking 'what happened if we went back in time and killed Hitler?' Well, key things in WWII would never happen. That's good.
You then end up with the fact that years down the line, the children of 50 million people are born when they never should be, and almost every other child born during or after WWII is never actually born.
It changes EVERYTHING at an exponential rate, moving away from the event you changed along the timeline.

Bravo. This is exactly what I've been thinking all along, but I couldn't have put it in any better way. I don't understand how people don't see this either. It's the butterfly affect; cause and effect, as you said, and little differences will have HUGE affects in the long run. I also like your analogy too.

  • 11.17.2010 7:22 PM PDT

All I ask is that you don't try to capture me.

Bungie should hire all you guys in the universe forum who keep creating massive, comprehensive theories to hold the Halo canon together. You'd certainly do a better job then the current guys.

  • 11.17.2010 8:53 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
Posted by: Venator82
Another thing, what was that about the Spartan IIs in cryo? I am actually in the dark about that one.
The easter egg at the end, where if you panned the camera to the right as the Pelican entered PoA's hangar bay, you would see a SPARTAN-II in MkV MJOLNIR in a cryotube.

Only one was there mind, but this means that they should ALL be in cryo.

To FleetAdmiralBob?
If there is a SPARTAN in cryo, then that is irrefutable evidence (whether an Easter Egg or not) that they SPARTANS were not deployed on missions between PoA leaving the surface of Reach and Alpha Halo.
Saying otherwise makes the Easter Egg so ludicrously pointless that I can't even think about how to talk about it.
It's a Bloody easter egg just becuase it's asparten 2 doesnt mean their all still on the pillar, this is the stupides thing i have read, unless thi is a counter to someone making the same stupid as claim cause if anyone makes a claim that the easter egg is relative to the story YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!!!
Halo 3's Legendary Ending is also an Easter Egg. Is that one supposed to be believed? Yes, I believe it is. Is it 'relative to the story'? Oh my God, yes it actually is. Unlike Johnson hugging the Elite or Buck eating Monkey bugs, this Easter Egg was not put there to be funny.

  • 11.17.2010 10:53 PM PDT


Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
Halo 3's Legendary Ending is also an Easter Egg. Is that one supposed to be believed? Yes, I believe it is. Is it 'relative to the story'? Oh my God, yes it actually is. Unlike Johnson hugging the Elite or Buck eating Monkey bugs, this Easter Egg was not put there to be funny.


Actually the Halo 3 Legendary ending isn't an easter egg, that's something important that adds to the story. Easter eggs are usually pointless and put in places to acknowledge something or just be random.

I think the easter egg in question is just a meaningless easter egg, and Bungie has always had something serious for those who stuck it out to the end of the credits, like CE had Guilty Spark floating aimlessly around in space, H2 had the Gravemind discover Cortana and start to interogate her, ODST had Johnson arrive questioning Vergil, and H3 shows Chief survived. And Legendary has usually added something more to it, except for H2 I think, I've never heard of or seen a Legendary Ending for that. Johnson man-hugging the Elite is now non-canon, sure, but I think when they first made it he was supposed to die on Halo, before he became so popular amongst the fan-base.

And why should it mean they were all in Cryo? The level it's on is in midafternoon of the 30th, well after 0616, which is when the Autumn was in space and picked up Chief. If it does have any meaning it could only be either Chief or Linda, and it wouldn't make much sense for Chief to be in Cryo at that point, so if it has any meaning at I think it'd be Linda.

[Edited on 11.18.2010 8:04 AM PST]

  • 11.18.2010 8:01 AM PDT
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So what if you can see the darkest side of me?

I don't like the SPARTAN-IIIs meeting Dr. Halsey so early on and her not reacting to other SPARTANS.

Apparently (I did not get the Legendary Edition so this is just what I've heard), the journal implies she simply disregarded NOBLE Team as SPARTAN-IIs, yet she knew all of her SPARTANS simply by body language, as stated in one of the books (the Cole Protocol, was it? Ah, I don't remember) so how in the world Bungie thought they could get away with saying she simply got "mixed up", I don't know. It makes her seem dull-minded when she is quite the opposite.

  • 11.18.2010 9:31 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: DemonicAngel96
I don't like the SPARTAN-IIIs meeting Dr. Halsey so early on and her not reacting to other SPARTANS.

Apparently (I did not get the Legendary Edition so this is just what I've heard), the journal implies she simply disregarded NOBLE Team as SPARTAN-IIs, yet she knew all of her SPARTANS simply by body language, as stated in one of the books (the Cole Protocol, was it? Ah, I don't remember) so how in the world Bungie thought they could get away with saying she simply got "mixed up", I don't know. It makes her seem dull-minded when she is quite the opposite.


I didn't like Halsey meeting the III's either, but she didn't assume they were just II's. She thought they were part of a project that rivaled the Spartan project.

  • 11.18.2010 9:36 AM PDT
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So what if you can see the darkest side of me?

privet caboose | Intrepid Mythic Member

Posted by: DemonicAngel96
I don't like the SPARTAN-IIIs meeting Dr. Halsey so early on and her not reacting to other SPARTANS.

Apparently (I did not get the Legendary Edition so this is just what I've heard), the journal implies she simply disregarded NOBLE Team as SPARTAN-IIs, yet she knew all of her SPARTANS simply by body language, as stated in one of the books (the Cole Protocol, was it? Ah, I don't remember) so how in the world Bungie thought they could get away with saying she simply got "mixed up", I don't know. It makes her seem dull-minded when she is quite the opposite.



I didn't like Halsey meeting the III's either, but she didn't assume they were just II's. She thought they were part of a project that rivaled the Spartan project.


Oh, I see. I thought it was odd she would not recognise them if she thought them to be SPARTAN-IIs.

  • 11.18.2010 9:42 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Even with that rather crappy explanation, it doesn't make sense why red flags didn't go up in Halsey's mind why her Spartan II was with a rival project. She would've dug through their files and found out they were actually III's long before she discovers the III project in First Strike.

  • 11.18.2010 9:46 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: privet caboose
Even with that rather crappy explanation, it doesn't make sense why red flags didn't go up in Halsey's mind why her Spartan II was with a rival project. She would've dug through their files and found out they were actually III's long before she discovers the III project in First Strike.

How did the Spartan III's even get mjolnir armor when it was being developed by Halsey. Did she just say to Ackerson, someone she hated, "hey would you like to use my cutting edge armor that I have been developing for years for your rival project that I don't know about?"

  • 11.18.2010 9:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: Venator82

Posted by: Spartan999
Posted by: Venator82
All of the fixes you came up with are facts that were introduced specifically for Halo: Reach.

Which means that they had to come up with that stuff to try to make their story work.

That may not be "broken" in the minds of some. Of course, by extension of that logic nothing could ever be broken.

But it is undeniable that things were changed.


Like what? What wes changed? I want a true, undeniable change, that nobody, and I mean nobody can seem to present to me. If you can do that, you'll be my hero for doing what nobody else can do.


Really? The Spartan III's working with Jorge and Halsey is a huge one...

1.) SIII's were specifically designed for suicide missions, I don't see what suicide mission they would've been on for them to be on Reach.

2.) SII's and Dr. Halsey herself did not know of the SIII's until the events of GoO, which takes place long after the events of Reach, yet Jorge is working with them and Dr. Halsey is giving them orders.

3.) SII armor is superior in durability than SIII armor; with 4 SII's dying in orbital drop to Reach in FoR and MC himself getting "locked up" in an orbital drop to Earth in Halo 3; yet you as a SIII not only survived such a drop, but seemed rather fine to boot.

4.) Cortana specifically states in FoR and even Halo 3, that she choose MC, out of all the Spartans she choose MC. Yet according to the game Reach, she choose Nobel six BEFORE she picked MC...

5.) When the game first starts the military doesn't know the Covenant are attacking and instead think that it is insurrectionists; if this is to be believed, why was a team of Spartans sent to handle them? SII's WERE designed to battle the insurrectionists yes, but SIII's WERE designed to battle the covenant; they wouldn't have been called.

6.) Brutes weren't on Reach, Reach was attacked by the Thel's Fleet, Thel doesn't allow Brutes in his fleet due to the events of Cole Protocol; this is why there were no Brutes in Halo: CE.

7.) The building underground you go to get Cortana is said, by Dr. Halsey, to be neither man nor covenant. In First Strike when her and the Spartans discover underground tunnels that are neither man nor covenant made, Dr. Halsey is amazed that such things exist on Reach that they had never found previously.

8.) MC states that all the SII's are onboard the PoA except for three too far to be called back easily, in FoR. This would mean that Jorge should have been on the PoA, the three too far is Gray Team from Cole Protocol. If Jorge was thought dead then it is strange that Dr. Halsey was not surprised or even suspicious that he was still alive and with 5 other Spartans that she had never met before.

9.) in FoR, PoA is being sent on a high priority mission with all remaining Spartans, except for the three too far away to be called back. With all the spartans in cryo sleep, but in route to their mission they receive word that Reach is under attack and redirect themselves to Reach. Yet in the game Reach, Reach is already being attacked before PoA even sets off for that mission...

10.) The SIII's are a higher than top secret project, more so than the SII project. Their existence was not even known of, so they wouldn't have been sent to handle insurrectionists, or fight in civilian cities, or put on Reach in the first place. Even Dr. Halsey didn't know of their existence until after Reach. Yet in the game they did all this, and made it quite apparent that they were something different than a SII.

11.) When Cortana initially choose MC, her and he was put together (by the use of the Mjolnir armor) and conducted a practice exercise against some longswords prior to going to the PoA, their initial meeting and practice exercise couldn't have happened by the events of the game Reach.

12.) Reach was a completely military owned and run planet used as a ship port and training camp, yet there are more civilians on the planet than military in the events of the game Reach.

13.) Scavengers never existed... in the books, in the comics, in the games... And you don't kill them off in Reach, giving no explanation as to why they weren't in Halo: CE, 2, 3, ODST, etc. At least the Engineers had the books, comics, and ODST...

14.) It is specifically stated in Ghost of Onyx that Kurt is the only Spartan to ever be an officer, until he promotes Fred near the end. Yet all of Nobel Team are officers in Reach...

15.) In Ghosts of Onyx it is specifically stated that Alpha Company was made in 2431 out of 400 children between 4 and 6 years old, yet Carter's birth year is 2520, making him 11 when he was in Alpha Company with the 4-6 year olds...

16.) All the other reasons that have already been listed by the many others who see that Reach is a complete contradiction of not only the FoR, but also FS, GoO, the comics, and even the original games (Cortana states that she choose MC out of all the Spartans in Halo 3, MC barley survived orbital free fall with his durable SII armor, etc.)


You can go and think up explanations all you want but the point of the matter is that the game does not give any explanations for these contradictions and your "guess" is not a valid excuse. One or two contradictions can be understandable, but this game is essentially telling that fans, "don't take the time to read the books because we'll just come out with a game that changes it all". One change here and there is easily accepted, such as the Skirmishers and such... Remember how Engineers showed in ODST... But when it is to a level as this, it is no different than if DC comics suddenly said "Superman has never been weak to Kryptonite"... (yeah, that's a comic reference... I couldn't think of a more world renown character)

  • 11.18.2010 11:31 AM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: TheRedFlag
Bungie should hire all you guys in the universe forum who keep creating massive, comprehensive theories to hold the Halo canon together. You'd certainly do a better job then the current guys.


I agree, here are a lot of Halo fans that care to protect more the cannon than Bungie or 343 themselves.

I used to believe Bungie would protect this, but they didn't! They just add more stuff, more timeline, more Spartans, placed ships where they didn't belong, made the most bloodied fight of the UNSC - Covenant war, less bloodied.

It felt like it wasn't Reach, I saw no UNSC battlecruisers in space, no large battle field areas and you in it, no Red Team.

The Gameplay is awesome thou, but the story is completely disappointing.

  • 11.18.2010 11:45 AM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
Posted by: manwith
What do you mean ''broke''? The game only expands the Battle of Reach, and as far as I'm concerned every event/moment that happened in the novels, happened in the game as well.

Just because it didn't play out like the novels presented it, doesn't mean it at any way broke canon.
The PoA was stationed on Reach's surface on the 29th August, at 16:52 (somewhere in either 'Reach Did Not Break Canon' thread, or the 'Unexplainable Canon Errors thread). This means that it did not participate in the space battle, nor could it have deployed Red or Blue teams by Pelican in orbit over Reach on the 'morning' of the 30th. This means that the 4 KIA SPARTANS from Red Team's drop never die, and they never take wounded.
It also means that James and Linda do not die, and 117 never meets up with Johnson and Jenkins. This means that two major plot points of the Flood, and no fewer than 3 major plot points of First Strike, are totally changed, as well as a major character of the entire original trilogy is totally forgotten. Considering each book only had 5-10 real plot points, this is a major cluster-blam.

And that's just discussing the PoA.


The space battle was going on around 5-7 am of August 30th. I'm sure by then the PoA could have been in space.

Red Team was dispatched from the PoA around 6 am and heading towards Reach's surface while taking casualties, and the last level of Halo: Reach takes place on 5pm, which like 10 hours or more later. Lot's of time there.



By the time The 300 Covenant warships arrive to Reach for the invation, the PoA was already in course (that means they weren't going back to take any "copy cortana" left behind) it took the PoA around an hour to arrive Reach and fast drop Red Team cause "The PoA could not be able to navigate inside Reach". In Halo: Reach after Noble Six survived the impossible fall that almost kills MC in Halo 3 and took 4 spartans-II life in the free fall in reach. In "Exodus" one pelican pilot says it has been days since the Covenant invation started.

Again why the reason to sacrifice 4 Spartans - II to drop them in a free fall when the PoA could easily landed and droped the Red Team in full strength? Halo: Reach simply implies that it was pointless to drop Red team in a dangerous free fall.

  • 11.18.2010 12:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: MasterSin

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
Posted by: manwith
What do you mean ''broke''? The game only expands the Battle of Reach, and as far as I'm concerned every event/moment that happened in the novels, happened in the game as well.

Just because it didn't play out like the novels presented it, doesn't mean it at any way broke canon.
The PoA was stationed on Reach's surface on the 29th August, at 16:52 (somewhere in either 'Reach Did Not Break Canon' thread, or the 'Unexplainable Canon Errors thread). This means that it did not participate in the space battle, nor could it have deployed Red or Blue teams by Pelican in orbit over Reach on the 'morning' of the 30th. This means that the 4 KIA SPARTANS from Red Team's drop never die, and they never take wounded.
It also means that James and Linda do not die, and 117 never meets up with Johnson and Jenkins. This means that two major plot points of the Flood, and no fewer than 3 major plot points of First Strike, are totally changed, as well as a major character of the entire original trilogy is totally forgotten. Considering each book only had 5-10 real plot points, this is a major cluster-blam.

And that's just discussing the PoA.


The space battle was going on around 5-7 am of August 30th. I'm sure by then the PoA could have been in space.

Red Team was dispatched from the PoA around 6 am and heading towards Reach's surface while taking casualties, and the last level of Halo: Reach takes place on 5pm, which like 10 hours or more later. Lot's of time there.



By the time The 300 Covenant warships arrive to Reach for the invation, the PoA was already in course (that means they weren't going back to take any "copy cortana" left behind) it took the PoA around an hour to arrive Reach and fast drop Red Team cause "The PoA could not be able to navigate inside Reach". In Halo: Reach after Noble Six survived the impossible fall that almost kills MC in Halo 3 and took 4 spartans-II life in the free fall in reach. In "Exodus" one pelican pilot says it has been days since the Covenant invation started.

Again why the reason to sacrifice 4 Spartans - II to drop them in a free fall when the PoA could easily landed and droped the Red Team in full strength? Halo: Reach simply implies that it was pointless to drop Red team in a dangerous free fall.


The PoA could have been just about leaving the system, but they were probably recalled back to pick up an important data that was not to be missed. It turned out to be worth the risk.

I don't see a problem with the Covenant invading the planet prior to August 30th, because the main fleet didn't arrive until that day, and probably not many people knew what was actually going on.

  • 11.18.2010 12:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: manwith
Posted by: MasterSin

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
Posted by: manwith
What do you mean ''broke''? The game only expands the Battle of Reach, and as far as I'm concerned every event/moment that happened in the novels, happened in the game as well.

Just because it didn't play out like the novels presented it, doesn't mean it at any way broke canon.
The PoA was stationed on Reach's surface on the 29th August, at 16:52 (somewhere in either 'Reach Did Not Break Canon' thread, or the 'Unexplainable Canon Errors thread). This means that it did not participate in the space battle, nor could it have deployed Red or Blue teams by Pelican in orbit over Reach on the 'morning' of the 30th. This means that the 4 KIA SPARTANS from Red Team's drop never die, and they never take wounded.
It also means that James and Linda do not die, and 117 never meets up with Johnson and Jenkins. This means that two major plot points of the Flood, and no fewer than 3 major plot points of First Strike, are totally changed, as well as a major character of the entire original trilogy is totally forgotten. Considering each book only had 5-10 real plot points, this is a major cluster-blam.

And that's just discussing the PoA.


The space battle was going on around 5-7 am of August 30th. I'm sure by then the PoA could have been in space.

Red Team was dispatched from the PoA around 6 am and heading towards Reach's surface while taking casualties, and the last level of Halo: Reach takes place on 5pm, which like 10 hours or more later. Lot's of time there.



By the time The 300 Covenant warships arrive to Reach for the invation, the PoA was already in course (that means they weren't going back to take any "copy cortana" left behind) it took the PoA around an hour to arrive Reach and fast drop Red Team cause "The PoA could not be able to navigate inside Reach". In Halo: Reach after Noble Six survived the impossible fall that almost kills MC in Halo 3 and took 4 spartans-II life in the free fall in reach. In "Exodus" one pelican pilot says it has been days since the Covenant invation started.

Again why the reason to sacrifice 4 Spartans - II to drop them in a free fall when the PoA could easily landed and droped the Red Team in full strength? Halo: Reach simply implies that it was pointless to drop Red team in a dangerous free fall.


The PoA could have been just about leaving the system, but they were probably recalled back to pick up an important data that was not to be missed. It turned out to be worth the risk.

I don't see a problem with the Covenant invading the planet prior to August 30th, because the main fleet didn't arrive until that day, and probably not many people knew what was actually going on.


... the main fleet arrived after LNoS. They started sacking cities shortlythereafter.

The timeline is changed, that much is irrefutable. The attack on Reach is common knowledge from mid-August at the least. Because of this, certain events have to be moved around as a matter of course.

Red Team had to have been fighting since Tip of the Spear. The deaths in the Pelican may have happened sooner, or may have not happened at all. The updated First Strike might proove usefull in picking one of these options, but I wouldn't count on it.

  • 11.18.2010 1:08 PM PDT

It would seem from your post that you're like me and have a little bit more than basic knowledge of the canon of the Haloverse, however, quite a few of your bits of evidence are wrong, or misrepresented.

Posted by: Child0fTheMind
1.) SIII's were specifically designed for suicide missions, I don't see what suicide mission they would've been on for them to be on Reach.


The SIII program as a whole was for the Spartans to be expendable, and then they best of best of SIIIs, to my understanding, were usually pulled right after training for special teams that were given tasks more like what an SII would recieve, tasks they could actually come back from.

2.) SII's and Dr. Halsey herself did not know of the SIII's until the events of GoO, which takes place long after the events of Reach, yet Jorge is working with them and Dr. Halsey is giving them orders.

Halsey not knowing officially about SIIIs until GoO remains the same, her finding out about Noble Team raised her suspicions and she started digging for what they were after that, and then like in GoO she finds out about the SIIIs. And as for Jorge, ONI tells you to keep your trap shut, you keep your silence, or else. :P

4.) Cortana specifically states in FoR and even Halo 3, that she choose MC, out of all the Spartans she choose MC. Yet according to the game Reach, she choose Nobel six BEFORE she picked MC...

Six was only acting as a courier, and Cortana only chose him/her as such, she's not choosing Six in the same way she chose Chief, and it's only a subroutine of Cortana that was split off to analyze the Forerunner artifact, the real Cortana is where she should be. Noble Team had to get the subroutine back to Cortana on the Autumn

5.) When the game first starts the military doesn't know the Covenant are attacking and instead think that it is insurrectionists; if this is to be believed, why was a team of Spartans sent to handle them? SII's WERE designed to battle the insurrectionists yes, but SIII's WERE designed to battle the covenant; they wouldn't have been called.

The SIIIs, from what I have read, were not made solely for fighting the Covenant as you said, they were created to ensure the survival of Humanity, granted their service was devoted for the most part in attacking the Covenant, but they still had other purposes, such as dealing with Insurrectionist activity. Basically they just do whatever mission their CO needs done. I see no reason for why an SIII team would not be called on to attack Insurrectionists, you take what's available to you, and Spartans of either type would do a hell of a better job than any Marine or Army grunt.

8.) MC states that all the SII's are onboard the PoA except for three too far to be called back easily, in FoR. This would mean that Jorge should have been on the PoA, the three too far is Gray Team from Cole Protocol. If Jorge was thought dead then it is strange that Dr. Halsey was not surprised or even suspicious that he was still alive and with 5 other Spartans that she had never met before.

I'm just going to mix points 9 and 10 in together here.
9. The Spartans weren't in cryo at all when they were on the Autumn, where did you hear that? They were in their own little space prepping their equipment for the mission.

10. First off, Chief never says that, Halsey does, and Halsey says in her journal, included in the Legendary edition of the game, that the statement that ALL Spartans were present for the RED FLAG briefing was a complete lie. And Halsey does not know all the deployments of her Spartans, nor do the other SIIs, so it makes perfect sense that she wouldn't know much about Jorge's role in the war, and you might not have noticed, but she was eying Noble Team with a lot of suspicion when she first met them.

12.) Reach was a completely military owned and run planet used as a ship port and training camp, yet there are more civilians on the planet than military in the events of the game Reach.

Just because we never see a civilian aspect in FToR or FS does not mean that was a completely military planet, and you have to have some people there to work your factories and such, and to provide readily available raw materials. The military is not going to do all this stuff themselves, that would be an inefficient use of man-power.

14.) It is specifically stated in Ghost of Onyx that Kurt is the only Spartan to ever be an officer, until he promotes Fred near the end. Yet all of Nobel Team are officers in Reach...

Noble has officer ranks to give them more independcency in the field, and they're army, not Navy, and the whole III program works a little differently than the SII.

In point 13 do you mean Skirmishers? Because there is no Covenant unit called Scavengers. If you do mean Skirmishers then you're contradicting yourself, because in your closing you say the addition of Skirmishers is nothing big.

  • 11.18.2010 1:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: OrderedComa
It would seem from your post that you're like me and have a little bit more than basic knowledge of the canon of the Haloverse, however, quite a few of your bits of evidence are wrong, or misrepresented.


I'm not going to take the time to post the actual book references at this time to prove you wrong with most of your statements. I started too, and once I got to quote 4 I decided that I was wasting too much of my time to prove an already proven point that you are refusing to believe.

All of your responses are guess work being done by you and others to try and fit the game into the canon. The point of the matter is that none of the inconsistencies are covered in any official material, and so are left as inconsistencies no matter what reasoning one can think for them to fit.

I also like the fact that you only went and responded to some of my reasons instead of all. I would assume that you did this because you couldn't think of a rebuttal for them. What you are mainly missing here is not what was changed, but HOW MANY THINGS WERE CHANGED. If it had been the just the addition of a new race, the extension of the length of the fall of Reach, or SIII's having officer ranks it wouldn't be as bad and would've been more accepted, but not only these were changed but other pieces (both small and huge) of every single book are changed as well.

Every game to date has brought in an inconsistency in some way or another. But they were small and few and were eventually explained off in one piece of Halo material or another. Reach's however and great and many, for them to be explained off in future materials is nonsensical and hard to believe.

  • 11.18.2010 7:10 PM PDT

Anybody feel like starting a petition to 343 to officially make Reach Non-Canon?

  • 11.18.2010 7:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: Old Salty27
Anybody feel like starting a petition to 343 to officially make Reach Non-Canon?
Geez, I would lol so hard.

It's already non-canon in my book.

  • 11.18.2010 8:43 PM PDT

I'MMA CHARGIN MAH LAZA

This is silly. Why do people place Nylund canon over Bungie canon? It... doesn't work that way.

What Bungie says, goes. If anything should be considered non-canon now, its the books. *GASP*

lrn2canon hierarchy.

Bungie>Nylund>EVERYTHINGELSE

Let the flaming begin.

[Edited on 11.19.2010 12:49 AM PST]

  • 11.19.2010 12:48 AM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

Technically, now the question is, "Why doesn't TFoR follow cannon?"

  • 11.19.2010 12:49 AM PDT

I'MMA CHARGIN MAH LAZA


Posted by: Cheeto666
Technically, now the question is, "Why doesn't TFoR follow cannon?"


Haha I think we basically just said the same thing.

  • 11.19.2010 12:51 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: oReggie414o
This is silly. Why do people place Nylund canon over Bungie canon? It... doesn't work that way.

What Bungie says, goes. If anything should be considered non-canon now, its the books. *GASP*

lrn2canon hierarchy.

Bungie>Nylund>EVERYTHINGELSE

Let the flaming begin.


Bungie Hired Nylund. Bungie said that Nylund(and other authors) books were completely canon and they are part of the Halo Universe. Bungie gave Nylund the Halo Bible and approved of every single word he wrote.

I paid for his books, because Bungie said they were part of the official canon. When they chose to ignore Nylunds book, they effectively made my purchase nothing more than fanfiction, which I do NOT approve of.

  • 11.19.2010 4:22 AM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

Stop crying. I didn't break canon, it fixed it. Having reach fall in a few hours, when other worlds took months, or even years to fall, was a stupid move on his part.
Bungie's version expands the universe of Halo. In fact, in practically explodes the universe with the amount of new material that could fit into the fall of reach.

Sure, Nylund was canon, but Bungie decided that their version of events was better. If you don't like that, go cry about it, but it ain't changin'.

Also, most of that book still falls within canon... About two chapters is all that changed. Seriously, stop crying over spilled (spoiled) milk.
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: oReggie414o
This is silly. Why do people place Nylund canon over Bungie canon? It... doesn't work that way.

What Bungie says, goes. If anything should be considered non-canon now, its the books. *GASP*

lrn2canon hierarchy.

Bungie>Nylund>EVERYTHINGELSE

Let the flaming begin.


Bungie Hired Nylund. Bungie said that Nylund(and other authors) books were completely canon and they are part of the Halo Universe. Bungie gave Nylund the Halo Bible and approved of every single word he wrote.

I paid for his books, because Bungie said they were part of the official canon. When they chose to ignore Nylunds book, they effectively made my purchase nothing more than fanfiction, which I do NOT approve of.

  • 11.19.2010 10:50 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: Cheeto666
Stop crying. I didn't break canon, it fixed it. Having reach fall in a few hours, when other worlds took months, or even years to fall, was a stupid move on his part.
Bungie's version expands the universe of Halo. In fact, in practically explodes the universe with the amount of new material that could fit into the fall of reach.

Sure, Nylund was canon, but Bungie decided that their version of events was better. If you don't like that, go cry about it, but it ain't changin'.

Also, most of that book still falls within canon... About two chapters is all that changed. Seriously, stop crying over spilled (spoiled) milk.
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: oReggie414o
This is silly. Why do people place Nylund canon over Bungie canon? It... doesn't work that way.

What Bungie says, goes. If anything should be considered non-canon now, its the books. *GASP*

lrn2canon hierarchy.

Bungie>Nylund>EVERYTHINGELSE

Let the flaming begin.


Bungie Hired Nylund. Bungie said that Nylund(and other authors) books were completely canon and they are part of the Halo Universe. Bungie gave Nylund the Halo Bible and approved of every single word he wrote.

I paid for his books, because Bungie said they were part of the official canon. When they chose to ignore Nylunds book, they effectively made my purchase nothing more than fanfiction, which I do NOT approve of.
Reach was the first battle ever mentioned in its entirety, in the entirety of, the Haloverse. Whether going by books or the game - it's mentioned in the opening cutscene of Halo CE for God's sake.

Its hour long fall is canonised by Fall of Reach, and described and/or referred to in ODST, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx.
Halo Reach changes directly 3 books by this and a cause-and-effect approach to canon, and a fourth by cause-and-effect alone.

Of course we are going to complain when something like this happens - the most majorly key battle of the entire war in both canon and the Haloverse itself has been changed, massively. To promote a game that only the canon fans asked for, and were disappointed by, because it did not follow multiple sources of established canon, preferring to create its own little corner of the Haloverse, isolated from every other piece of canon.

  • 11.19.2010 10:57 AM PDT

Dianna Agron is the epitome of perfection.

Quinntology.

Posted by: OrderedComa
Halsey not knowing officially about SIIIs until GoO remains the same, her finding out about Noble Team raised her suspicions and she started digging for what they were after that, and then like in GoO she finds out about the SIIIs.


No, no, no. She first found out about the SPARTAN III program when she was going through Kelly's medical records after Blue team had found her at CASTLE Base. That is the FIRST time.


The SIIIs, from what I have read, were not made solely for fighting the Covenant as you said, they were created to ensure the survival of Humanity, granted their service was devoted for the most part in attacking the Covenant, but they still had other purposes, such as dealing with Insurrectionist activity. Basically they just do whatever mission their CO needs done. I see no reason for why an SIII team would not be called on to attack Insurrectionists, you take what's available to you, and Spartans of either type would do a hell of a better job than any Marine or Army grunt.

There were specifcally designed to take out Covenant High Value Targets. Ackerson said that when he presented his project to ONI leaders.

Noble has officer ranks to give them more independcency in the field, and they're army, not Navy, and the whole III program works a little differently than the SII.

Re-read that. It makes no sense.

  • 11.19.2010 1:11 PM PDT