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This topic has moved here: Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
  • Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill

Spartans never die... they just revert to last checkpoint.

YES YES YES

Bullets kill mother-blam!-s today and i *assume they'll kill more mother-blam!-s 550 years in the future

  • 12.06.2010 2:17 PM PDT

I like the AR exactly the way it is right now, because at anything closer than medium range you can fire full-auto and the bloom doesn't affect it too much. My strategy with the AR in Reach is as follows:

>Walk towards enemy, shoot until noticed
>Walk back if he charges, walk forward if he goes back or stands still
>Fire full-auto if the reticle is small enough (the entire thing, not just the blooming part) relative to the enemy, short but not even bursts if not
>When the shields pop, melee if close enough, fire full auto if not
>if never noticed at step 1, ASSASSINATE!

  • 12.06.2010 2:29 PM PDT

The AR is a noob weapon, people only use it because they can't use anything else or because they ran out of ammo with everything else. Why should it be stronger because people can't use anything that needs precision. And don't bother telling me that the AR can be used at long distance if you control the bloom because ya know what? No one does it ANYWAY.

  • 12.06.2010 2:33 PM PDT

Yeah I remember in Halo 3, the AR could be compared to the BR... and I chose the AR everytime now it's OBVIOUS the DMR dominates the AR any time. The AR needs way more damage boost but then again that'll cause problems for Elites in Invasion so THEREFORE either remove BLOOM from the Plasma Repeater or boost its overheat capacity.

  • 12.06.2010 2:47 PM PDT

If I had a Rocket Launcher...

Shut up and get behind me... Sir!

The cable. I'm going to cut it.

Awesomeness would ensue.

MA5B, anyone?

Personally, I agree. Just a few small tweaks here and there, and we'll have a very viable spawn weapon.

  • 12.06.2010 2:48 PM PDT


Posted by: BlueScarabGuy
I like the AR exactly the way it is right now, because at anything closer than medium range you can fire full-auto and the bloom doesn't affect it too much. My strategy with the AR in Reach is as follows:

>Walk towards enemy, shoot until noticed
>Walk back if he charges, walk forward if he goes back or stands still
>Fire full-auto if the reticle is small enough (the entire thing, not just the blooming part) relative to the enemy, short but not even bursts if not
>When the shields pop, melee if close enough, fire full auto if not
>if never noticed at step 1, ASSASSINATE!


Yes, but it takes ALMOST a full clip to kill someone in Reach with the AR. I remember takin' out 2 guys with 1 clip with the AR in Halo 3. That also leads me to my next point... is it just me or is the Needler really bad compared to the Halo 3 needler?

  • 12.06.2010 2:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: IsPrAy y0UpRaYz
The AR is a noob weapon, people only use it because they can't use anything else or because they ran out of ammo with everything else. Why should it be stronger because people can't use anything that needs precision. And don't bother telling me that the AR can be used at long distance if you control the bloom because ya know what? No one does it ANYWAY.


It's alot harder to kill, as it has no headshot bonus.

Also, the sandbox is designed to fit weapons by range, not skill in any case, so the DMR shoul not beat a skilled player at close range.

Distance=/= skill.

Burst firing is harder to use than just simply scoping and pacing your shots.

Also being able to use the weapon effectively at it's intended range, and adapt at other ranges is what I consider skill.

  • 12.06.2010 2:52 PM PDT

Posted by: DrinkingDark1
It's too underpowered yes..One magazine = One kill,its IMPOSSIBLE to survive in a 1 vs 2-4 people battle with the AR,you can with the DMR barely,but you can surive with the DMR but not the ALMIGHTY assault rifle..Look back in halo 1? It was über-powerfull back then..

But you didnt start with it
you started with the plasma pistol.....

  • 12.06.2010 2:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dtiger02

Posted by: BlueScarabGuy
I like the AR exactly the way it is right now, because at anything closer than medium range you can fire full-auto and the bloom doesn't affect it too much. My strategy with the AR in Reach is as follows:

>Walk towards enemy, shoot until noticed
>Walk back if he charges, walk forward if he goes back or stands still
>Fire full-auto if the reticle is small enough (the entire thing, not just the blooming part) relative to the enemy, short but not even bursts if not
>When the shields pop, melee if close enough, fire full auto if not
>if never noticed at step 1, ASSASSINATE!


Yes, but it takes ALMOST a full clip to kill someone in Reach with the AR. I remember takin' out 2 guys with 1 clip with the AR in Halo 3. That also leads me to my next point... is it just me or is the Needler really bad compared to the Halo 3 needler?


Not just you, it's been nerfed. It was kind of OP in Halo 3, but I wouldn't mind more in total ammo (not larger magasine size).

  • 12.06.2010 2:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Garveynes
Posted by: DrinkingDark1
It's too underpowered yes..One magazine = One kill,its IMPOSSIBLE to survive in a 1 vs 2-4 people battle with the AR,you can with the DMR barely,but you can surive with the DMR but not the ALMIGHTY assault rifle..Look back in halo 1? It was über-powerfull back then..

But you didnt start with it
you started with the plasma pistol.....


He's talking about Slayer Pro- classic

  • 12.06.2010 2:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: BlueScarabGuy
I like the AR exactly the way it is right now, because at anything closer than medium range you can fire full-auto and the bloom doesn't affect it too much. My strategy with the AR in Reach is as follows:

>Walk towards enemy, shoot until noticed
>Walk back if he charges, walk forward if he goes back or stands still
>Fire full-auto if the reticle is small enough (the entire thing, not just the blooming part) relative to the enemy, short but not even bursts if not
>When the shields pop, melee if close enough, fire full auto if not
>if never noticed at step 1, ASSASSINATE!


Burst firing at mid range, till you determine the enemies weapon.

Then if he has a CQB weapon (Shotgun, Grav Ham,etc.) You back up, while continously firing (bursts) As he closes in (if he's stupid enough) keep firing, and after about an HOUR of this, he will die.

If he has a long ranged weapon- close in the distance, oppening full-auto when you reach CQB range.



These tactics worked in Halo 3.

In Reach the AR is so weak, that an DMR user can own it up close and personal. That should not happen.

But it does. I would know, as I did both the owning using the DMR, and was owned by using the AR anywhere outside of an AR duel, or when my opponent is a noob.

  • 12.06.2010 2:59 PM PDT

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Posted by: The Slayer
This thread is much stranger and more awkward than any of my many films.


Posted by: IsPrAy y0UpRaYz
The AR is a noob weapon, people only use it because they can't use anything else or because they ran out of ammo with everything else. Why should it be stronger because people can't use anything that needs precision. And don't bother telling me that the AR can be used at long distance if you control the bloom because ya know what? No one does it ANYWAY.


Did he both poorly attack and defend the AR at the same time in this post, or does his logic just suck that much?

  • 12.06.2010 9:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Telomee

Posted by: IsPrAy y0UpRaYz
The AR is a noob weapon, people only use it because they can't use anything else or because they ran out of ammo with everything else. Why should it be stronger because people can't use anything that needs precision. And don't bother telling me that the AR can be used at long distance if you control the bloom because ya know what? No one does it ANYWAY.


Did he both poorly attack and defend the AR at the same time in this post, or does his logic just suck that much?


A little of both, I'd say :)

  • 12.07.2010 12:23 AM PDT

No.

Not unless they make give the magnum more rounds, and bring its fire rate back to beta status.

I don't want an overpowered spray weapon in the sandbox. If you want the AR to play a role in the game you should be asking for the melee to be nerfed. The powerful melee has made close range non-power weapons pointless since halo 2 post patch.

The AR is by far the most annoying weapon to be killed by. It takes almost zero skill, and now that its hitscan its impossible to avoid. It should stay the way it is.

[Edited on 12.07.2010 12:46 AM PST]

  • 12.07.2010 12:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: jerbearzzz
No.

Not unless they make give the magnum more rounds, and bring its fire rate back to beta status.

I don't want an overpowered spray weapon in the sandbox. If you want the AR to play a role in the game you should be asking for the melee to be nerfed. The powerful melee has made close range non-power weapons pointless since halo 2 post patch.

The AR is by far the most annoying weapon to be killed by. It takes almost zero skill, and now that its hitscan its impossible to avoid. It should stay the way it is.


2 things- DMR is hitscan, and is alot easier to aim, and much more powerfull- even at short range.

Explain how firing an rather inaccurate weapon with weak rounds to kill takes no skill?

Melee isn't powerfull, but rather badly designed. This way, I pumped 3 DMR rounds into the guy which goes in for the melee. Naturally I also go for the melee. We clash and both our shields our down.

This can have 2 results.

If we have headshot weapons, it comes down to who capps who first. (Chance of both dying)

If only one of us does, chances are that that one wins.

If we both don't have it, or if the melee didn't result in a clash- we double melee and we both die.

See how flawed it is? Double melees are retarded.

And the AR is too weak at the moment.

  • 12.07.2010 12:52 AM PDT

Hahaha I agree with lengthening the bloom rate as well as the 16 shot kill, however i do not agree with strengthening each round.

lol maybe they should bring back the scoped SMG from ODST :P

  • 12.07.2010 1:07 AM PDT


Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: jerbearzzz
No.

Not unless they make give the magnum more rounds, and bring its fire rate back to beta status.

I don't want an overpowered spray weapon in the sandbox. If you want the AR to play a role in the game you should be asking for the melee to be nerfed. The powerful melee has made close range non-power weapons pointless since halo 2 post patch.

The AR is by far the most annoying weapon to be killed by. It takes almost zero skill, and now that its hitscan its impossible to avoid. It should stay the way it is.


2 things- DMR is hitscan, and is alot easier to aim, and much more powerfull- even at short range.

Explain how firing an rather inaccurate weapon with weak rounds to kill takes no skill?


The AR is much easier to aim. Spraying the body is harder than landing headshots.

Inaccurate? This is the most accurate AR in any Halo game.

The difference between the DMR kill time and the AR's is extremely small, and the AR strips shields faster than the DMR.

If they made the AR more powerful, the game would literally turn into a spray fest. It would kill the skill gap, five year olds would be able to compete with seasoned halo vets. You honestly don't know what you're asking for.

  • 12.07.2010 1:07 AM PDT

i say give it 40 rounds.

  • 12.07.2010 1:09 AM PDT
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Personally I would say increase magazine size to 60 rounds per clip. I say this as the main reason I die when I RARELY use the AR, is because I have to reload. I do not feel the damage needs to be increased though.

  • 12.07.2010 1:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: jerbearzzz

Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: jerbearzzz
No.

Not unless they make give the magnum more rounds, and bring its fire rate back to beta status.

I don't want an overpowered spray weapon in the sandbox. If you want the AR to play a role in the game you should be asking for the melee to be nerfed. The powerful melee has made close range non-power weapons pointless since halo 2 post patch.

The AR is by far the most annoying weapon to be killed by. It takes almost zero skill, and now that its hitscan its impossible to avoid. It should stay the way it is.


2 things- DMR is hitscan, and is alot easier to aim, and much more powerfull- even at short range.

Explain how firing an rather inaccurate weapon with weak rounds to kill takes no skill?


The AR is much easier to aim. Spraying the body is harder than landing headshots.

Inaccurate? This is the most accurate AR in any Halo game.

The difference between the DMR kill time and the AR's is extremely small, and the AR strips shields faster than the DMR.

If they made the AR more powerful, the game would literally turn into a spray fest. It would kill the skill gap, five year olds would be able to compete with seasoned halo vets. You honestly don't know what you're asking for.


At close range, the AR strips shields faster, but only by a little. It has no headshot multiplier.

Yes it's the most accurate AR yet, but it doesen't change the fact that it is an inaccurate weapon.

It wouldn't turn into a spray fest, as the difference would be quite small, mostly just affecting the power of short-controlled bursts.

And yes, I do know what I am asking for.

  • 12.07.2010 1:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: starvingartist47
Hahaha I agree with lengthening the bloom rate as well as the 16 shot kill, however i do not agree with strengthening each round.

lol maybe they should bring back the scoped SMG from ODST :P


..How can you agree with 16 shot kill, and not strenghtening each round? That makes no sense whatsoever.

  • 12.07.2010 1:16 AM PDT

Ego semper fidelis de me ... Ius ista causa.
-blam!- enim causa propositum si, inquam meo humanitatis. Et posui in caput anguli nostri, ut mea futurum. Nunc semper, et saecula.
Hoc autem dico.

Personally I like the old Halo:CE AR.

Anyhow I think they should up the mag size(just a little) to 40 round and up the damage a small bit to 16 rounds to kill a player in matchmaking.

Just my opinion but there it is.

  • 12.07.2010 1:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: F35A2
Personally I like the old Halo:CE AR.

Anyhow I think they should up the mag size(just a little) to 40 round and up the damage a small bit to 16 rounds to kill a player in matchmaking.

Just my opinion but there it is.


Uping the mag size would reward spraying.

Just the damage per round imo.

  • 12.07.2010 1:29 AM PDT

Changing the mag size and ROF to fit the fact that it's as horribly inaccurate as the MA5B might help, or, on a better idea, either decrease the cadence for the third and fourth shots so that the size of the cross hair was roughly equal to the size of the MA5C ICWS. 'Course, then again, if this happened, I'd be creaming every DMR user I met, even at mid range half the time, unless they were exceptionally good.

Also, being tagged out and shot at by everybody because you're one of the higher ranked people in the game is bull, so, a mag increase would make the MA37 feel like God's own anti-son-of-a--blam!- machine, but as much as that would save me more than armor lock or evade, if evade and other armor abilities were introduced to a slayer variant other than Elite Slayer, it might feel balanced on it's own, but then again, that would just go to show the power of a single AA.

Then again, I kind of feel like if you give me evade, and an MA5C style MA37 and I'll out do every power weapon on the map, except maybe rockets. Or snipes, if they're a good shot. It's kinda funny, but half the time I don't need anything more than an AR because I know most kids with the DMR miss, and, well, suck. Which I think is all fine and dandy, because it makes my life easier, but the MA37's lack of power, lack of accuracy on the third shot, and general lack of killing capability whatsoever leaves it in the place that Bungie seems to have designated for the AR: the gun nobody should usually use, ever.

Oh, and I know that the MA37 is the most accurate AR to date, but it is the most inaccurate burst firing of them all. In order to achieve a 'perfect' kill, you would have to feather the trigger into two shot bursts, allowing bloom to reset fully before firing again. This is at any range other than close quarters, and by close quarters, I mean any point where they're not filling more than all of the reticule.

So, basically, it comes down to this: if any player with half a wit picked up an AR that was built the same was either the Halo: Reach test assault rifle, the 'M7/S' of Halo: ODST, which essentially was a very accurate, slightly higher damage, slightly smaller clip variant of the MA5B, effectively bridging the gap in feel between the MA5C and it's predecessor, they'd be able to, I don't know, make the DMR take a little skill to use? Still, the MA37 keeps a mix of feels, but in order to sort of lean the game the way Halo 2 was: it's all about the precision weapons, or *the* precision weapon, the DMR. What's so great about it? Well, I swear, you'll kill anyone you meet when you get the first shot off, and especially so if you can squeeze in another before they get one off at you, which in the MA37's case could lead toward a fair fight. Hell, Halo: Reach isn't a smack-fight when it comes to the AR, it's a sleight-of-hands fest, where everyone has to reload at least once to get a kill in with it half the time, including the people who're good with it, usually because they're good enough to dodge a few bullets and make tracking them a pain.

So, really, it comes down to this: if the DMR had more consistent four shot kills, which it shouldn't, the MA37 would've had either a bigger clip, or a slightly tighter cadence. Either way, I still prefer Halo 3's MA5C: it'd trounce everything if introduced as it's base state into Reach, so, that's why I love it. 'Cause, really, we all know: it takes a lot more skill to beat someone using the DMR, than to get a kill with the DMR. It's not a matter of 'skill,' it's just a matter of precision weapons getting intense preference.

So, I think of it this way: Bungie is undoubtedly reviewing the game data for each game, but in a broad spectrum and in different manners. Each kill undoubtedly has various labels we can't see, such as whether or not a player reloaded before they killed the individual, whether they reloaded while being shot at by the individual, whether they switched from a weapon that was shot at the enemy, whether or not it had any bullets left in the clip, etc. They're far more likely to base their decisions off such a thing, than something like this.

Still, part of me thinks that they'd probably never bother. Ha. Also, how is Reach not a smack-fight? No, I don't die every time I get into melee, but it is certainly not the last resort. I digress, but also consider how much I'd like to see another Zanzibar remake.

  • 12.07.2010 2:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: Tenth
Then again, I kind of feel like if you give me evade, and an MA5C style MA37 and I'll out do every power weapon on the map, except maybe rockets. Or snipes, if they're a good shot. It's kinda funny, but half the time I don't need anything more than an AR because I know most kids with the DMR miss, and, well, suck. Which I think is all fine and dandy, because it makes my life easier, but the MA37's lack of power, lack of accuracy on the third shot, and general lack of killing capability whatsoever leaves it in the place that Bungie seems to have designated for the AR: the gun nobody should usually use, ever.

Oh, and I know that the MA37 is the most accurate AR to date, but it is the most inaccurate burst firing of them all. In order to achieve a 'perfect' kill, you would have to feather the trigger into two shot bursts, allowing bloom to reset fully before firing again. This is at any range other than close quarters, and by close quarters, I mean any point where they're not filling more than all of the reticule.




Two round bursts should be used only at long range, right :)

I tend to use 4 round bursts, and even those do less damage than a single, 100% accurate DMR shot.


I don't want the AR to dominate (no weapon should) but it should be a jack-of-all trades gun that skilled players can use if they want to, effectively.

By increasing the damage per round, I find that burst firing and feathering will be more effective, while AR rushing won't be dominating.

This would reward skill and marksmanship with a weapon that in skilled hands could beat many enemies in many circumstances, while still losing at long range, and being slightly inferior at mid range to the DMR and Magnum.

  • 12.07.2010 4:30 AM PDT