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This topic has moved here: Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
  • Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill

Telomee the switch to 5.56mm occurred during the Vietnam war and was appreciated by many soldiers who wanted a lighter weapon better suited for jungle and closer range combat. In most scenarios a 5.56x45mm assault rifle is a better choice than a full length 7.62x51mm battle rifle but there are indeed some cases where you want the latter.

The Marine Corp originally wanted to stick with the M14 but eventually they switched to the M16A1 like the Army. Many of the features of the M16A2 were dictated by the Marine Corp including the three-round burst. For them this was actually a compromise with some officers who wanted the weapon to be semi-auto only. For the most part the Army didn't like the M16A2 as the Marines wanted it. The Army's "recommended rifle" kept full-auto, had different sights, and included various other differences from the actual M16A2. Yet for some reason the Army didn't get their variant and got the M16A2 as the Marines wanted it.

The SS109 which NATO standardized on (M855 in US service) was designed to deal with the Soviets who would usually be wearing light body armor or flak jackets. Yet in today's conflicts there have been occasions where the round has gone clean through the enemy without doing enough damage to stop a man who may well be drugged up.

The new M855A1 and Mk.318 are supposed to be somewhat more lethal but in Afghanistan a bigger problem is the extreme ranges a significant portion of firefights occur in. The switch to carbines has been somewhat of a drawback in this regard.

But back on topic I would love to see the damage of the MA37 increased somewhat. There is no reason it should have been cut back from the MA5C in Halo 3.

  • 12.14.2010 12:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: The Zane
PEOPLE, bungie wants you to put it down for a better weapons. If you increase the mag or the damage it will become a weapon as powerful as the others that take more skill to use and no one will drop it. I know a ton of players that never picked up other weapons in halo 3.

If the increase happens in one or the other or both I vote for a decrease in the accuracy so you actually need to be closer to use it.

I voted NO


How does it take less skill to use at mid range than a DMR- with it's accurate shots, slow bloom, headshot bonus and generous ammount of auto-aim (yes, it's not just your leet jedi skills that score your headshots).

A damage increase would make it still be weaker, but usable, encouraging burst firing and actualy aiming your weapon, instead of bursting.

I voted YES. (As did the majority of B.net).

  • 12.14.2010 4:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: Darth Lampshade
Telomee the switch to 5.56mm occurred during the Vietnam war and was appreciated by many soldiers who wanted a lighter weapon better suited for jungle and closer range combat. In most scenarios a 5.56x45mm assault rifle is a better choice than a full length 7.62x51mm battle rifle but there are indeed some cases where you want the latter.

The Marine Corp originally wanted to stick with the M14 but eventually they switched to the M16A1 like the Army. Many of the features of the M16A2 were dictated by the Marine Corp including the three-round burst. For them this was actually a compromise with some officers who wanted the weapon to be semi-auto only. For the most part the Army didn't like the M16A2 as the Marines wanted it. The Army's "recommended rifle" kept full-auto, had different sights, and included various other differences from the actual M16A2. Yet for some reason the Army didn't get their variant and got the M16A2 as the Marines wanted it.

The SS109 which NATO standardized on (M855 in US service) was designed to deal with the Soviets who would usually be wearing light body armor or flak jackets. Yet in today's conflicts there have been occasions where the round has gone clean through the enemy without doing enough damage to stop a man who may well be drugged up.

The new M855A1 and Mk.318 are supposed to be somewhat more lethal but in Afghanistan a bigger problem is the extreme ranges a significant portion of firefights occur in. The switch to carbines has been somewhat of a drawback in this regard.

But back on topic I would love to see the damage of the MA37 increased somewhat. There is no reason it should have been cut back from the MA5C in Halo 3.


Good summary.

I'd rather take the 7.62x51mm version :) Stopping power is where it counts these days.

  • 12.14.2010 5:03 AM PDT
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Well I really hopw Bungie staff saw this by now, and will be making their decision on whether or not they will implement the damage increase.

  • 12.14.2010 8:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: RIZEUTO
Well I really hopw Bungie staff saw this by now, and will be making their decision on whether or not they will implement the damage increase.

  • 12.14.2010 1:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: RIZEUTO
Well I really hopw Bungie staff saw this by now, and will be making their decision on whether or not they will implement the damage increase.

here u can have a free bump

  • 12.14.2010 1:16 PM PDT

There's no sense crying over every mistake,
you must keep on trying til' you run out of cake
and the science gets done, and you make a neat gun,
for the people who are, still alive.

Talk about spray and pray, but normally if i have the ar, im running at the enemy to melee them. I weaken their shields and BAM! Kill for me.

  • 12.14.2010 1:17 PM PDT

oh please bugie make this so, this would fix so many of the problems with kill times

  • 12.14.2010 1:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: xX Itz4Real Xx

Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: RIZEUTO
Well I really hopw Bungie staff saw this by now, and will be making their decision on whether or not they will implement the damage increase.

here u can have a free bump


Thanks

  • 12.14.2010 1:31 PM PDT

"Knowledge is Power... Hide it well." - Unknown

Tech Support: "Multitasking a Pentium is like stepping on the motherboard with running cleats."

Posted by: The Slayer
This thread is much stranger and more awkward than any of my many films.


Posted by: znickz95
Talk about spray and pray, but normally if i have the ar, im running at the enemy to melee them. I weaken their shields and BAM! Kill for me.


That was my attack plan back in Halo 3. Now, you have to pop their shields for that to work, and it still takes the entire clip if you can only get in their face. Because of the slower kill times, someone with a DMR, anything that shoots plasma or spikes of any color, and hilariously enough, the shotgun at medium-shot range outside of its niche. Or about 3/4 of the weapons in Reach.

Off topic note: I can't add anything to the real world side show I started as it has been summed up completely. I'm also going to stop sniping stupid comments in here, I can always do that over at the Flood...

  • 12.15.2010 12:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Telomee

Posted by: znickz95
Talk about spray and pray, but normally if i have the ar, im running at the enemy to melee them. I weaken their shields and BAM! Kill for me.


That was my attack plan back in Halo 3. Now, you have to pop their shields for that to work, and it still takes the entire clip if you can only get in their face. Because of the slower kill times, someone with a DMR, anything that shoots plasma or spikes of any color, and hilariously enough, the shotgun at medium-shot range outside of its niche. Or about 3/4 of the weapons in Reach.

Off topic note: I can't add anything to the real world side show I started as it has been summed up completely. I'm also going to stop sniping stupid comments in here, I can always do that over at the Flood...


Haha, that's what the Flood is for. It's rather layed back actually :)

On topic: Yes, the AR rush no longer exists. So why make the weapon itself even weaker? That's the point. Without that tactic, burst firing needs to be more rewarding.

Instead it is now useless.

It needs a damage buff, pronto.

  • 12.15.2010 5:16 AM PDT
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The AR doesn't need buffing it would just RUIN gameplay because everyone would just AR rush and not pick up any other weapon, like in H3, and the last thing I want is reach to turn into an AR fest! If something needs buffing it is THE PLAMSA REPEATER!

Geez the Assault rifle isn't the only weapon in halo...

  • 12.15.2010 5:21 AM PDT

The AR takes no skill, and promotes unskilled gameplay. Making it more powerful is simply a crutch for less skilled players, and a thorn in the side of skilled players.

  • 12.15.2010 5:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: I K MART I
The AR takes no skill, and promotes unskilled gameplay. Making it more powerful is simply a crutch for less skilled players, and a thorn in the side of skilled players.


That's a nice opinion, but I woul maybe consider it if it was explained.

How does a weaker, less accurate weapon take less skill to use than simply slapping a headshot-capable, very accurate, high power DMR round? Knowing the correct bursts to use at which range is harder than pacing your shots with the DMR.

Also, to MATO,- AR rushing is no longer present.

Read the other posts before you post again.


The new melee system is made so that you would need to collapse the shields of your target before you can kill with the melee.

Right now it's better to double melee than actually shoot, which is ALOT more annoying.

Buffing the damage would make it more rewarding to actually aim, and shoot, rather than using the AR as a club or not at all.

[Edited on 12.15.2010 5:28 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2010 5:27 AM PDT
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The new melee system is made so that you would need to collapse the shields of your target before you can kill with the melee.

Right now it's better to double melee than actually shoot, which is ALOT more annoying.

Buffing the damage would make it more rewarding to actually aim, and shoot, rather than using the AR as a club or not at all.

I voted YES!

  • 12.15.2010 6:13 AM PDT

we dont die, we just go to hell to regroup.

Posted by: RIZEUTO
The magasine size increase would be a way to help players who start shooting earlier, but the more skilled option is to increase the individual round's damage, rewarding marksmanship more.


They tried to reward marksmanship with almost every weapon, but have failed misserably especially with the DMR. I had a great idea about that, but its never gonna change...
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=54081226

[Edited on 12.15.2010 8:42 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2010 8:40 AM PDT

we dont die, we just go to hell to regroup.

Posted by: RIZEUTO
The new melee system is made so that you would need to collapse the shields of your target before you can kill with the melee.

Right now it's better to double melee than actually shoot, which is ALOT more annoying.

Buffing the damage would make it more rewarding to actually aim, and shoot, rather than using the AR as a club or not at all.

I voted YES!


They should put in the halo CE melee system, there was no aim assist and you couldnt lunge at your opponent, you really had to get (excuse my expression) body 2 body action... and land the beatdown yourself, instead of having the aim assist and "leech" doing it for ya, that would dramaticaly decrease the double beatdowns.

  • 12.15.2010 8:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Miniaturejoint
Posted by: RIZEUTO
The new melee system is made so that you would need to collapse the shields of your target before you can kill with the melee.

Right now it's better to double melee than actually shoot, which is ALOT more annoying.

Buffing the damage would make it more rewarding to actually aim, and shoot, rather than using the AR as a club or not at all.

I voted YES!


They should put in the halo CE melee system, there was no aim assist and you couldnt lunge at your opponent, you really had to get (excuse my expression) body 2 body action... and land the beatdown yourself, instead of having the aim assist and "leech" doing it for ya, that would dramaticaly decrease the double beatdowns.


though the melee's range was unrealistically long.

I loved it :) However, I would like to have it slightly more powerfull than in CE.

  • 12.15.2010 8:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: Miniaturejoint
Posted by: RIZEUTO
The magasine size increase would be a way to help players who start shooting earlier, but the more skilled option is to increase the individual round's damage, rewarding marksmanship more.


They tried to reward marksmanship with almost every weapon, but have failed misserably especially with the DMR. I had a great idea about that, but its never gonna change...
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=54081226


I posted in your thread.

I think that bouncing reticle would be a realistical representation of recoil. It would be less random as well.

However, I would need to playtest it to see if it would work. It sounds like it would be the solution for the spamming problem.

  • 12.15.2010 8:57 AM PDT

I copy pasted this from that other thread but I thought it belonged in here.
Posted by: Wobbly_guyPosted by: RIZEUTO
The Assault Rifle.


Bungie made a mistake. With the new melee system, the AR rush is non existent. They FINNALY had a chance to make the AR a weapon that takes skill to use, rewards aiming and knowing the correct bursts to use at which range.

But no, they had to nerf it.

If it took 16 rounds to kill, and the magasine wasn't increased, it would be perfect. (Increasing mag size would promote spraying, which is bad, and also wouldn't really fix it).

These changes would fix it though


Nerfed? It's better in almost every way.

The new bloom system enormously benefits the AR. It's more accurate than the pistol if the bloom's at it's smallest. You can keep it small by firing in 2-shot bursts.

2-shot bursts are what makes the AR so much better than past iterarations. The timing is extremely strict, but if you're good at it you can fire faster than the needle rifle can full-auto. Keep in mind that this is without expanding the bloom.

Considering it takes 9,5 bursts to kill someone with the AR and 7 shots to kill someone with the needle rifle, I'd say te AR is superior. The only way to match the kill time of the AR with the needle rifle is to fire full-auto, and hit every shot. This near impossible with the bloom.

The AR is much better than people make it out to be. It's just a lot harder to use it effectively.


P.S. I did test the firing rate. I emptied a needle rifle magazine with 16 rounds in it (to have the same amount of 2-shot bursts the AR can do in it) and then emptied an AR with 2-shot bursts at the best rate the best I could.

The AR emptied it's mag a full second faster than the needle rifle did. Remember that I'm not perfect and the AR might be able to be fired faster so there might even be a greater difference.

This proves that a burst fire AR has a faster firing rate the the full-auto needle rifle.

[Edited on 12.15.2010 9:08 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2010 9:03 AM PDT

Play the game like it is real; use cover, use teamwork and you will survive.


Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: I K MART I
The AR takes no skill, and promotes unskilled gameplay. Making it more powerful is simply a crutch for less skilled players, and a thorn in the side of skilled players.


That's a nice opinion, but I woul maybe consider it if it was explained.

How does a weaker, less accurate weapon take less skill to use than simply slapping a headshot-capable, very accurate, high power DMR round? Knowing the correct bursts to use at which range is harder than pacing your shots with the DMR.

Also, to MATO,- AR rushing is no longer present.

Read the other posts before you post again.


The new melee system is made so that you would need to collapse the shields of your target before you can kill with the melee.

Right now it's better to double melee than actually shoot, which is ALOT more annoying.

Buffing the damage would make it more rewarding to actually aim, and shoot, rather than using the AR as a club or not at all.


RIZEUTO got it right, it takes more skill to use an AR (at longer range, of course) where you have to burst fire. The DMR is easier to use because of the scope, the headshot capability and it's ridiculously low bloom for that kind of weapon.

TL;DR : AR takes more skill to use efficiently than the DMR.

  • 12.15.2010 9:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: Wobbly_guy
I copy pasted this from that other thread but I thought it belonged in here.
Posted by: Wobbly_guyPosted by: RIZEUTO
The Assault Rifle.


Bungie made a mistake. With the new melee system, the AR rush is non existent. They FINNALY had a chance to make the AR a weapon that takes skill to use, rewards aiming and knowing the correct bursts to use at which range.

But no, they had to nerf it.

If it took 16 rounds to kill, and the magasine wasn't increased, it would be perfect. (Increasing mag size would promote spraying, which is bad, and also wouldn't really fix it).

These changes would fix it though


Nerfed? It's better in almost every way.

The new bloom system enormously benefits the AR. It's more accurate than the pistol if the bloom's at it's smallest. You can keep it small by firing in 2-shot bursts.

2-shot bursts are what makes the AR so much better than past iterarations. The timing is extremely strict, but if you're good at it you can fire faster than the needle rifle can full-auto. Keep in mind that this is without expanding the bloom.

Considering it takes 9,5 bursts to kill someone with the AR and 7 shots to kill someone with the needle rifle, I'd say te AR is superior. The only way to match the kill time of the AR with the needle rifle is to fire full-auto, and hit every shot. This near impossible with the bloom.

The AR is much better than people make it out to be. It's just a lot harder to use it effectively.


P.S. I did test the firing rate. I emptied a needle rifle magazine with 16 rounds in it (to have the same amount of 2-shot bursts the AR can do in it) and then emptied an AR with 2-shot bursts at the best rate the best I could.

The AR emptied it's mag a full second faster than the needle rifle did. Remember that I'm not perfect and the AR might be able to be fired faster so there might even be a greater difference.

This proves that a burst fire AR has a faster firing rate the the full-auto needle rifle.


Note that it is alot easyer to aim the needle rifle as one shot is more powerfull than 2 from the AR (2= greater chance to miss).

Also, headshots boost kill times, so I have to ask were they taken into account?

  • 12.15.2010 1:46 PM PDT

my old XBL accounts
H2: PoopRulezEarth
H3: 50 HyPeRR, 48 YourL1berator

This is a new account yerp derp

The Majority of players on the forums agree that the AR needs a buff.

  • 12.15.2010 1:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: SolidStrelok
The Majority of players on the forums agree that the AR needs a buff.


And I know others (not on B.net do as well).

  • 12.15.2010 2:18 PM PDT


Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: Wobbly_guy
I copy pasted this from that other thread but I thought it belonged in here.
Posted by: Wobbly_guyPosted by: RIZEUTO
The Assault Rifle.


Bungie made a mistake. With the new melee system, the AR rush is non existent. They FINNALY had a chance to make the AR a weapon that takes skill to use, rewards aiming and knowing the correct bursts to use at which range.

But no, they had to nerf it.

If it took 16 rounds to kill, and the magasine wasn't increased, it would be perfect. (Increasing mag size would promote spraying, which is bad, and also wouldn't really fix it).

These changes would fix it though


Nerfed? It's better in almost every way.

The new bloom system enormously benefits the AR. It's more accurate than the pistol if the bloom's at it's smallest. You can keep it small by firing in 2-shot bursts.

2-shot bursts are what makes the AR so much better than past iterarations. The timing is extremely strict, but if you're good at it you can fire faster than the needle rifle can full-auto. Keep in mind that this is without expanding the bloom.

Considering it takes 9,5 bursts to kill someone with the AR and 7 shots to kill someone with the needle rifle, I'd say te AR is superior. The only way to match the kill time of the AR with the needle rifle is to fire full-auto, and hit every shot. This near impossible with the bloom.

The AR is much better than people make it out to be. It's just a lot harder to use it effectively.


P.S. I did test the firing rate. I emptied a needle rifle magazine with 16 rounds in it (to have the same amount of 2-shot bursts the AR can do in it) and then emptied an AR with 2-shot bursts at the best rate the best I could.

The AR emptied it's mag a full second faster than the needle rifle did. Remember that I'm not perfect and the AR might be able to be fired faster so there might even be a greater difference.

This proves that a burst fire AR has a faster firing rate the the full-auto needle rifle.


Note that it is alot easyer to aim the needle rifle as one shot is more powerfull than 2 from the AR (2= greater chance to miss).

Also, headshots boost kill times, so I have to ask were they taken into account?


Yep, headshots were taken into account.

  • 12.15.2010 3:20 PM PDT