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This topic has moved here: Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
  • Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
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I guess that the fact that it's easier to aim with a NR and controll bloom is a counter the faster RoF?

I really don't know. I guess I should think this through.
Posted by: Wobbly_guy

Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: Wobbly_guy
I copy pasted this from that other thread but I thought it belonged in here.
Posted by: Wobbly_guyPosted by: RIZEUTO
The Assault Rifle.


Bungie made a mistake. With the new melee system, the AR rush is non existent. They FINNALY had a chance to make the AR a weapon that takes skill to use, rewards aiming and knowing the correct bursts to use at which range.

But no, they had to nerf it.

If it took 16 rounds to kill, and the magasine wasn't increased, it would be perfect. (Increasing mag size would promote spraying, which is bad, and also wouldn't really fix it).

These changes would fix it though


Nerfed? It's better in almost every way.

The new bloom system enormously benefits the AR. It's more accurate than the pistol if the bloom's at it's smallest. You can keep it small by firing in 2-shot bursts.

2-shot bursts are what makes the AR so much better than past iterarations. The timing is extremely strict, but if you're good at it you can fire faster than the needle rifle can full-auto. Keep in mind that this is without expanding the bloom.

Considering it takes 9,5 bursts to kill someone with the AR and 7 shots to kill someone with the needle rifle, I'd say te AR is superior. The only way to match the kill time of the AR with the needle rifle is to fire full-auto, and hit every shot. This near impossible with the bloom.

The AR is much better than people make it out to be. It's just a lot harder to use it effectively.


P.S. I did test the firing rate. I emptied a needle rifle magazine with 16 rounds in it (to have the same amount of 2-shot bursts the AR can do in it) and then emptied an AR with 2-shot bursts at the best rate the best I could.

The AR emptied it's mag a full second faster than the needle rifle did. Remember that I'm not perfect and the AR might be able to be fired faster so there might even be a greater difference.

This proves that a burst fire AR has a faster firing rate the the full-auto needle rifle.


Note that it is alot easier to aim the needle rifle as one shot is more powerfull than 2 from the AR (2= greater chance to miss).

Also, headshots boost kill times, so I have to ask were they taken into account?


Yep, headshots were taken into account.


[Edited on 12.15.2010 3:36 PM PST]

  • 12.15.2010 3:34 PM PDT

Fixed link for intro:

LOLARZ

  • 12.15.2010 9:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Havok 2K7
Fixed link for intro:

LOLARZ


Thanks :)

I find that a damage increase is a good idea, while a magasine increase would encourage spraying. (Though I see how a smaller mag can diminish the skill gap).


The problem as stated in both threads is the far too low DPS.

  • 12.16.2010 4:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: The Zane
PEOPLE, bungie wants you to put it down for a better weapons. If you increase the mag or the damage it will become a weapon as powerful as the others that take more skill to use and no one will drop it. I know a ton of players that never picked up other weapons in halo 3.

If the increase happens in one or the other or both I vote for a decrease in the accuracy so you actually need to be closer to use it.

I voted NO


How does it take less skill to use at mid range than a DMR- with it's accurate shots, slow bloom, headshot bonus and generous ammount of auto-aim (yes, it's not just your leet jedi skills that score your headshots).

A damage increase would make it still be weaker, but usable, encouraging burst firing and actualy aiming your weapon, instead of bursting.

I voted YES. (As did the majority of B.net).

  • 12.16.2010 4:33 AM PDT

"98% of teenagers surround there mind with rap. If you part of the 2% that stayed with rock, put this in your signature."

*Reads Title*lolwut

  • 12.16.2010 4:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: Spartanr63
*Reads Title*lolwut


Read the post then.

You aren't really a big Halo fan if you don't get the title or bother to check it out.

  • 12.16.2010 4:38 AM PDT

Happiness is a warm gun

anything that is going to increase the amount of AR rushers i am completely against.

Use the pistol people

  • 12.16.2010 4:43 AM PDT


Posted by: ToxicAcidsnake
anything that is going to increase the amount of AR rushers i am completely against.

Use the pistol people


AR rush doesn't work anymore with the new melee system. You have to actually shoot with the AR to get some kills.

  • 12.16.2010 4:46 AM PDT

No, no, no, no! This is Halo. Most weapons are meant to kill rather slowly in Halo. If you want to die quickly, go play CoD. Don't ruin Halo.

  • 12.16.2010 4:47 AM PDT
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The AR is a POS Peashooter. I just use the Magnum in Invasion.

  • 12.16.2010 4:48 AM PDT

i think the AR is a decent enough weapon, ive got one of my best K/D Spreads with it (1.65).

im a destinctly average player tho so maybe i dont notice the finer points of each weapon.

  • 12.16.2010 4:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: Wobbly_guy

Posted by: ToxicAcidsnake
anything that is going to increase the amount of AR rushers i am completely against.

Use the pistol people


AR rush doesn't work anymore with the new melee system. You have to actually shoot with the AR to get some kills.

  • 12.16.2010 4:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: VaultDweller178
No, no, no, no! This is Halo. Most weapons are meant to kill rather slowly in Halo. If you want to die quickly, go play CoD. Don't ruin Halo.


It wouldn't make kill times like CoD (Which I hate - who shoots first wins).

But instead give the AR an edge in comparison to other weapons.

  • 12.16.2010 4:57 AM PDT
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What he said.

@ ToxicAcidsnake

If you bothered to completely read the OP or some of the other posts (first few, round the middle.... the whole damn thread to be honest!) you would have come to that conclusion.

  • 12.16.2010 4:59 AM PDT

>>: [Welcome to Dr. Grey's domain.]

The original Assault rifle was a 14 hit kill. It had a 60 round clip, and sprayed everywhere. But it was very good at turning people into mush when they got too close. The one in REACH, is not so much.

But I don't think it's a good idea to buff it just 'because' it doesn't kill fast enough. It would change the balance in the sandbox too significantly, in my opinion.

  • 12.16.2010 4:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: PXLeigh
The original Assault rifle was a 14 hit kill. It had a 60 round clip, and sprayed everywhere. But it was very good at turning people into mush when they got too close. The one in REACH, is not so much.

But I don't think it's a good idea to buff it just 'because' it doesn't kill fast enough. It would change the balance in the sandbox too significantly, in my opinion.


At the moment, it doesen't fit in the ballance at all.

A small buff is all we ask for.

  • 12.16.2010 6:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: WARFIGHTER989
The AR is a POS Peashooter. I just use the Magnum in Invasion.


Which means that it isn't a good weapon choice, right?

And that's because of the low damage per round.

It needs a buff.

  • 12.16.2010 8:17 AM PDT

“If we will disbelieve everything, because we cannot certainly know all things, we shall do much what as wisely as he who would not use his legs, but sit still and perish, because he had no wings to fly.” - John Locke

"How can anyone be enlightened? Truth after all is so poorly lit." - Rush

After H3 I'm overjoyed to see that AR spammers get owned most of the time.

  • 12.16.2010 9:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: Locke357
After H3 I'm overjoyed to see that AR spammers get owned most of the time.

Sigh*....

Read the OP. I'm AGAINST spraying (spamming, whatever).

But burst firing should be rewarded.

  • 12.16.2010 9:29 AM PDT
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^This guy is always on the elite's side.

slightly more damage but also more damage to the plasma repeater.

  • 12.16.2010 9:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: OGxNINEBALLAxOG
slightly more damage but also more damage to the plasma repeater.


Yes, people have been rather vocal about these 2 issues.

  • 12.16.2010 10:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: Telomee

Posted by: znickz95
Talk about spray and pray, but normally if i have the ar, im running at the enemy to melee them. I weaken their shields and BAM! Kill for me.


That was my attack plan back in Halo 3. Now, you have to pop their shields for that to work, and it still takes the entire clip if you can only get in their face. Because of the slower kill times, someone with a DMR, anything that shoots plasma or spikes of any color, and hilariously enough, the shotgun at medium-shot range outside of its niche. Or about 3/4 of the weapons in Reach.

Off topic note: I can't add anything to the real world side show I started as it has been summed up completely. I'm also going to stop sniping stupid comments in here, I can always do that over at the Flood...


Haha, that's what the Flood is for. It's rather layed back actually :)

On topic: Yes, the AR rush no longer exists. So why make the weapon itself even weaker? That's the point. Without that tactic, burst firing needs to be more rewarding.

Instead it is now useless.

It needs a damage buff, pronto.

  • 12.16.2010 11:00 AM PDT
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How bout they beef up all non power weapons to have about a one second kill time like in halo ce, because most weapons have a 2-2.5 sec avg kill time which is wayyy to long even for halo. Right now usually the only way I die is from team shotting or nades, and neither take much skill. I think the ar dmr and pistol should all be made much more powerful

  • 12.16.2010 11:10 AM PDT

"Knowledge is Power... Hide it well." - Unknown

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Posted by: The Slayer
This thread is much stranger and more awkward than any of my many films.


Posted by: DickCheneyFTW
How bout they beef up all non power weapons to have about a one second kill time like in halo ce, because most weapons have a 2-2.5 sec avg kill time which is wayyy to long even for halo. Right now usually the only way I die is from team shotting or nades, and neither take much skill. I think the ar dmr and pistol should all be made much more powerful


That would make Halo Call of Duty in Space, and doesn't appeal to me at all. The point of this thread is that we need to give the MA37 a small buff for damage to bring it up to the point where people can actually use it effectively more of the time. I have had a few moments where I shredded the other team with an AR, but that was mostly me generating a bubble of luck and saving the day in BTB just after launch. Now, I wouldn't be able to pull that kind of thing because everyone now knows how to fire the DMR in CQC.

Side note: I take it you betray your teammates with the Shotgun, am I right Dick?

Edit: Grammar and spelling.

[Edited on 12.16.2010 1:39 PM PST]

  • 12.16.2010 1:38 PM PDT

"Knowledge is Power... Hide it well." - Unknown

Tech Support: "Multitasking a Pentium is like stepping on the motherboard with running cleats."

Posted by: The Slayer
This thread is much stranger and more awkward than any of my many films.

Off topic note: we're back to the top of the second page of the Reach Game forum again, with 1066 poll votes. Pretty good for a thread this old OP.

  • 12.16.2010 1:46 PM PDT