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This topic has moved here: Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
  • Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
Subject: MA37 ICWS AR. It should take 16 rounds to kill
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Posted by: TehWarMoose
Dude, you're encased in a ton of shielded metal. Of course a collection of crude metal pellets will not penetrate your walking tank of a suit.


But a pistol will?

Please, we are talking purely about game mechanics here.

  • 04.27.2011 7:09 AM PDT

1st off the Ar vs. The dmr at close range dmr can win but it's about equal. A AR can burn though a shield pretty quickly and the increased damage would only make it harder to strife and avoid death of your armed with a dmr

  • 04.27.2011 12:42 PM PDT
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Ur right. it should be stronger as the accuracy increase is not enough to balance it.

  • 04.27.2011 12:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: clould337
1st off the Ar vs. The dmr at close range dmr can win but it's about equal. A AR can burn though a shield pretty quickly and the increased damage would only make it harder to strife and avoid death of your armed with a dmr


1)The DMR is not a close range weapon, and it should never win at extreme close range (however, it does).

2)The AR is a very bad weapon in comparison to any other weapon, and as such, needs a damage buff, for the reasons listed in the OP, and throughout the thread.

  • 04.28.2011 12:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: dkns26
Ur right. it should be stronger as the accuracy increase is not enough to balance it.

Glad to have someone agree.

But Bungie handed over the reigns of Reach to 343..

  • 04.29.2011 3:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: clould337
1st off the Ar vs. The dmr at close range dmr can win but it's about equal. A AR can burn though a shield pretty quickly and the increased damage would only make it harder to strife and avoid death of your armed with a dmr


1)The DMR is not a close range weapon, and it should never win at extreme close range (however, it does).

2)The AR is a very bad weapon in comparison to any other weapon, and as such, needs a damage buff, for the reasons listed in the OP, and throughout the thread.

3)To avoid death with a DMR, use it within it's intended range (mid-long). Oh, and because of the melee system, you don't have to worry. Melee + headshot. It's very (too) easy to do.

  • 05.05.2011 1:04 PM PDT
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If you never give up, you never lose.

The balance is currently perfect between the AR and the pistol. (and every other weapon imo)

I'm a pistol user (but I do know how the AR works) and I've always thought the pistol was slightly more powerful all-round than the AR is. I'm talking in terms of kill time.

My opinion and point of view changed on this when an old Halo 3 friend of mine joined me in a forge session and turned into a 1v1. He was a good AR user (one of the best I've seen) and I'm pretty good with the magnum myself. Usually I win more than half of my pistol vs AR encounters in matchmaking, but now I lost half to more than half of them. And I knew it had been a long time since he played. I learned to engage him from further away, so my pistol could handle him better, and sure, the score turned out to be 100-45 ish.

The thing that sets him apart from most other AR users is that he strafes. He does it quite well. If a pistol misses a shot, it is catastrophic for it's killtime. It doesn't take that much skill to keep an AR on target though, especially if you burstfire. So strafing is actually more benificial for the AR user. Bungie balanced the weapons out, knowing and assuming both parties can and will strafe.

This is what creates the illusion of the AR being underpowered. Sorry for saying this, but you will find a lot more noobs that use the AR as their main weapon than you would find 'pistol noobs'. They lose more because they don't know how important strafing is, especially if you are dealing with someone who uses headshot weapons.

Now, on topic:

Increasing the damage per bullet would increase its stopping power. This decrease the time needed for a kill and thus disrupt the fine balance between the pistol and the AR. So I don't think this is the solution.

I'm not sure about the magazine size, I don't have that much experience with an AR, since I rarely spray out an entire clip. One kill, one clip doesn't sound that awful to me. Maybe the clip size could be increased slightly, to help aid other players take down shields with the extra bullets in their clip before they need to reload.

But all in all, I don't think the AR needs a buff.

  • 05.05.2011 1:33 PM PDT
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I remember this tread. Bungie/343 have done nothing to fix this game. So sad.

  • 05.05.2011 1:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: nightspark
I remember this tread. Bungie/343 have done nothing to fix this game. So sad.


I know.

They really didn't care.

  • 05.19.2011 5:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: FabFubar
The balance is currently perfect between the AR and the pistol. (and every other weapon imo)

I'm a pistol user (but I do know how the AR works) and I've always thought the pistol was slightly more powerful all-round than the AR is. I'm talking in terms of kill time.

My opinion and point of view changed on this when an old Halo 3 friend of mine joined me in a forge session and turned into a 1v1. He was a good AR user (one of the best I've seen) and I'm pretty good with the magnum myself. Usually I win more than half of my pistol vs AR encounters in matchmaking, but now I lost half to more than half of them. And I knew it had been a long time since he played. I learned to engage him from further away, so my pistol could handle him better, and sure, the score turned out to be 100-45 ish.

The thing that sets him apart from most other AR users is that he strafes. He does it quite well. If a pistol misses a shot, it is catastrophic for it's killtime. It doesn't take that much skill to keep an AR on target though, especially if you burstfire. So strafing is actually more benificial for the AR user. Bungie balanced the weapons out, knowing and assuming both parties can and will strafe.

This is what creates the illusion of the AR being underpowered. Sorry for saying this, but you will find a lot more noobs that use the AR as their main weapon than you would find 'pistol noobs'. They lose more because they don't know how important strafing is, especially if you are dealing with someone who uses headshot weapons.

Now, on topic:

Increasing the damage per bullet would increase its stopping power. This decrease the time needed for a kill and thus disrupt the fine balance between the pistol and the AR. So I don't think this is the solution.

I'm not sure about the magazine size, I don't have that much experience with an AR, since I rarely spray out an entire clip. One kill, one clip doesn't sound that awful to me. Maybe the clip size could be increased slightly, to help aid other players take down shields with the extra bullets in their clip before they need to reload.

But all in all, I don't think the AR needs a buff.


Diferences in our experiences.... hmm.

  • 05.19.2011 8:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Dark3nd Av3ng3r
Before I read everything, I thought, "Great, another noob whining about the game." Then, upon reading it, I realized, "Hmm, this guy has a valid point unlike most of the other idiot posters on here."

So basically, I have to really agree with you. Free bump


Thanks :)

It's too bad that Bungie won't do anything about it though..

  • 05.27.2011 1:12 AM PDT

Soi soi soi soi soisoisoisoisoisoisoisoisoi

Posted by: Duck In A Tub

Posted by: ArcherBlade
We cant have it too powerful though, then everyone would spawn with a power weapon that kills easy. I'd like it too have a few more rounds but I doubt that will happen.


Um... Do you remember the Halo 3 BR?


Um... do you remember that the AR is garbage now? The DMR is just as OP.

  • 05.27.2011 1:21 AM PDT

Soi soi soi soi soisoisoisoisoisoisoisoisoi

The AR just needs a few more bullets. Often times I get kills with 2 or 3 bullets to spare (even when bursting).

  • 05.27.2011 1:26 AM PDT
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Thread Saved + free bump

  • 05.27.2011 1:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: alexo101
The AR just needs a few more bullets. Often times I get kills with 2 or 3 bullets to spare (even when bursting).


That's one way to do it.

I'd prefer if they boosted the damage.
That way, you'd still have to burst fire to save ammo, but you would need to shoot a smaller number of rounds.

Lower kill times = good.

  • 05.27.2011 1:38 AM PDT

Posted by: RIZEUTO

Posted by: SUPER MOOSE93
or you could just make it the same as halo 3 AR, that was fine


The Halo 3 AR was the beast in my oppinion, as well as in the oppinion's of many I know.

However, people complained about AR Beatdowns dominating- the technique called "Rushing" was overused.

This was repaired with the new melee system (Which I am not fond of- I believe putting melee at 75% only in MP would have been better).

But what I don't get is why the AR was even further weakened with the lower damage per round (It was already low to begin with) and lower rate of fire.

If its not broke, fix it until it is.

  • 05.27.2011 2:00 AM PDT

Xfire username: rustbandit

Add me to your friends list if you haven't already. It's a lot more fun to play with people from The Maw and people I know than random noobs.

I think the Reach assault rife has the same problems as the SMG did in Halo 2. It is underpowered, and since players spawn with it after they die, it is very difficult to overcome a power weapon. Granted, a power weapon is a power weapon but it is very difficult to last against someone who has picked up even a DMR off the map.

In my opinion, the power weapons should not simply be a super gun that can easily kill anyone who wields them. They should be specialized (ex: shotgun for close range, sniper for long), which they are. However, the relative weakness of the AR leaves little in between for those who do not have the power weapon.

I do not agree with the argument that simply camping with power weapons should win the game. Players should spawn with a decent enough weapon that they can work against the specialized "power" weapons. Hence why I much prefer DMR starts or BR starts in Halo 3.

If the assault rifle was strengthened, it would become a valid starting weapon capable of taking out power weapon users who are using the weapon outside of its specialty.

Sorry for the essay :P

  • 05.27.2011 2:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: RustBandit
I think the Reach assault rife has the same problems as the SMG did in Halo 2. It is underpowered, and since players spawn with it after they die, it is very difficult to overcome a power weapon. Granted, a power weapon is a power weapon but it is very difficult to last against someone who has picked up even a DMR off the map.

In my opinion, the power weapons should not simply be a super gun that can easily kill anyone who wields them. They should be specialized (ex: shotgun for close range, sniper for long), which they are. However, the relative weakness of the AR leaves little in between for those who do not have the power weapon.

I do not agree with the argument that simply camping with power weapons should win the game. Players should spawn with a decent enough weapon that they can work against the specialized "power" weapons. Hence why I much prefer DMR starts or BR starts in Halo 3.

If the assault rifle was strengthened, it would become a valid starting weapon capable of taking out power weapon users who are using the weapon outside of its specialty.

Sorry for the essay :P


Point made.

But will anything be done to fix this? I don't think so.

  • 05.29.2011 5:24 AM PDT

Have you played very many non Halo shooters? dating back to deathmatches in Doom, every shooter ever has started you off with a crappy gun and made you go look for something better.

9/10 times it's the generic machine gun as well.


So yes, the AR sucks. But 25 years of FPS history has taught us that it's supposed to suck.

  • 05.29.2011 5:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: tha1truestoner
Have you played very many non Halo shooters? dating back to deathmatches in Doom, every shooter ever has started you off with a crappy gun and made you go look for something better.

9/10 times it's the generic machine gun as well.


So yes, the AR sucks. But 25 years of FPS history has taught us that it's supposed to suck.


The AR actually has potential.

Unlike the generic Quake III MAchinegun.

  • 06.06.2011 11:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: tha1truestoner
Have you played very many non Halo shooters? dating back to deathmatches in Doom, every shooter ever has started you off with a crappy gun and made you go look for something better.

9/10 times it's the generic machine gun as well.


So yes, the AR sucks. But 25 years of FPS history has taught us that it's supposed to suck.


The AR actually has potential.

Unlike the generic Quake III MAchinegun.

  • 06.09.2011 5:16 PM PDT

Please Bungie, I'm on my knees begging!

  • 06.09.2011 5:29 PM PDT
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It would be cooler to increase the magazine and fire rate so noobs cant just kill you they actually have to aim half of the time.

  • 06.09.2011 5:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: Odst251
It would be cooler to increase the magazine and fire rate so noobs cant just kill you they actually have to aim half of the time.


Increased fire rate and higher number of rounds would lead to careless spraying.

My idea works.

This does the opposite.

  • 06.19.2011 5:56 AM PDT
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I say go back to classic and extend the mag size. We all can agree the classic AR was useful for the most part and had little issues. Just adding an extra 28 rounds to the mag will give the AR an extra edge to compete with some of the more poweful rifles (DMR etc) and I suppose a slight damage boost wouldn't hurt either, but I'm leaning towards extending magazines. There's my thought.

  • 06.19.2011 6:05 AM PDT