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Subject: What did the Sangheili do after the dissolving of the Covenant end?

All I understand is that the Sangheili went back to Sangheilios and started to fight against the Jiralhanae.
What happened, because I would like to know.

  • 11.27.2010 1:45 PM PDT

Never extrapolated :(
I want to know, too.

  • 11.27.2010 1:47 PM PDT

The Sangheili probably won because the sangheili were far more intelligent and far more fierce then the jiralhanae.

  • 11.27.2010 1:47 PM PDT

What I really want to know is when the Great Schism ended, what did the Unngoy do?

  • 11.27.2010 1:57 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

They fought a 6 year war of attrition against the Brutes. However, seeing as they lack the scientific and technological knowledge to produce ships, weaponry and most Covenant grade technology, they had to abandon the war largely in order to defend Sangheilios due to a falling ship count. They struggle to even repair them you see. They have no purpose in life now, and their whole way of life is at risk of becoming obsolete. That is all we really know, from Evolutions.

Alliances with Humanity still largely up in the air I guess.

  • 11.27.2010 1:59 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: anton1792
They fought a 6 year war of attrition against the Brutes. However, seeing as they lack the scientific and technological knowledge to produce ships, weaponry and most Covenant grade technology, they had to abandon the war largely in order to defend Sangheilios due to a falling ship count. They struggle to even repair them you see. They have no purpose in life now, and their whole way of life is at risk of becoming obsolete. That is all we really know, from Evolutions.

Alliances with Humanity still largely up in the air I guess.
I remembered when I once argued with you on the likelihood of that point...

  • 11.27.2010 2:16 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
I remembered when I once argued with you on the likelihood of that point...

The Alliance point? I cannot remember. Probably, my memory is shyte.

  • 11.27.2010 2:33 PM PDT
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I not even sure,this guy told me people came back an killed the rest,but I doubt it though.

[Edited on 11.27.2010 7:03 PM PST]

  • 11.27.2010 7:03 PM PDT

We can just hope for a novel or even a game focused on the fate of this noble race. I'm very interested in the war on Sanghelios!

  • 11.27.2010 8:40 PM PDT

true, but I definitely think that the Sanghelli would have won. as said before, the Jiralhanae are simply not intelligent enough to have won against such a superior, awesome race. After all, the Jiralhanae were only at tier 6 of the forerunner technological advancement tiers prior to joining the Covenant...

  • 11.27.2010 8:55 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: spurkis
We can just hope for a novel or even a game focused on the fate of this noble race. I'm very interested in the war on Sanghelios!

I am not flaming you or anything here right but, what is actually noble about the Sangheili?

  • 11.27.2010 9:18 PM PDT

ISU Cyclones!

I always thought the Covenant species had a much more interesting story to them than the UNSC. I too would love to see something exploring in more detail what happened to the Arbiter and the rest of the Elites from the battle at the Ark when they returned back to Sanghelios.

  • 11.27.2010 9:19 PM PDT
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We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand and of overwhelming force on the other.

Basically, the faught against the Brutes for a few years, and I don't particularly remember the outcome, I'm guessing the Elites won. They then asked themselves what to live for, they discovered they have no purpose, the asked themselves, what do we live for?

Its a really sad story, a great, powerful race, with such prowess in fighting and intelligence, to have a simply, bland existance like this after all those years of power, and glory.

  • 11.27.2010 10:33 PM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: spurkis
We can just hope for a novel or even a game focused on the fate of this noble race. I'm very interested in the war on Sanghelios!

I am not flaming you or anything here right but, what is actually noble about the Sangheili?


Okay noble maybe ain't the quite correct word. They are fricking beasts.
But they have great respect for war ethics when it all comes to all, they are very honorable, they are intelligent, strong, basically superior to us in every way. After they realised the purpose of the Halo array they threw away the Covenant's religious aspect and started fighting them instead, to obliterate their extremist hierarchy, and of course aiding the humans, both by cleaning up the flood infestation in Voi and their assistance in capturing The Citadel on The Ark.
The Arbiter (Thel Vadam) was definitely noble. He tried to convince a swarm of Drones to stop fighting for the Prophets, instead of killing them right away. He also paid his respects in the memorial at the end of Halo 3.

  • 11.28.2010 7:48 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: spurkis
Okay noble maybe ain't the quite correct word. They are fricking beasts.

Try monsters.

Posted by: spurkis
But they have great respect for war ethics when it all comes to all, they are very honorable

They are very hypocritical, and lack integrity to their own "war ethics". They curse anyone who flees from battle, yet Sangheili do it to fall back and regroup. Okay, fair enough, a good idea afterall. So when their opponents do the same, why are they suddenly considered cowardly? Have not the Sangheili just done that? Pot calling the kettle black.

They curse the use of devices that can conceal you, such as active camouflage, in saying that only cowards use them. In Headhunters, a Sangheili complains that the only reason the S-III won was due to the cloaking devices that they had used. Unless I was imagining it, Sangheili did not hesitate to use them in order to win, and they used them all the time.

The belief of active camouflage being cowardly roots in their belief of facing your opponent in "honourable" combat. So why is it that they squat in their hollowed out pieces of metal and bombard a planet from orbit? Whenever they are defeated on the ground, they retreat (but wait a minute, I thought that they did not believe in retreat!) and glass the planet in a temper-tantrum. Spartan Red team gave them hell at the orbital generators on Reach. The Sangheili outnumbered them ridiculously, and they still had to resort to bringing in CCS-Cruisers to glass the Spartans. Not honourable combat there is it, a Cruiser Vs a S-II?

"Honourable combat". Says the race that use ridiculously powerful weapons compared to what their enemies have. Who use shields and agility boosting armour that is comparable to Mjolnir systems. The Sangheili are wholly reliant upon technology to win. (Stolen technology btw!)

They do not believe in slaughtering civilians (It does not merit as legitimate combat), so what the hell was the Human-Covenant war all about? And I am not talking about the Glassings, I am speaking of the act of them going into peoples homes and slaughtering the families within, like described in the Return. To paraphrase the Return "after 2 days of Human slaughter in their homes..."

They have no war ethnics, and no integrity, which means they have no honour. Honour is not the act of being a strong warrior. Anyone can kill a person, which is what it seems most people here think. By that logic, Jack the Ripper would be an honourable individual! You must (generally) display Integrity, fairness, nobility, trustworthiness and courage(although not always for courage).

Posted by: spurkis
they are intelligent, strong, basically superior to us in every way.

Bestiarum disagrees with all of this except the stregnth aspect. Leaving even that aside, here is a race that everyone claims to be perceptive, and yet they could not see that Humans were in fact Forerunner artefacts themselves when the Luminaries showed them as such every time a colony was discovered.

Posted by: spurkis
and of course aiding the humans, both by cleaning up the flood infestation in Voi and their assistance in capturing The Citadel on The Ark.

That was not out of kindness, enlightened judgement or atonement, merely an egoistic measure. 60% of their military and Fleets had been wiped out by a NOVA bomb at Joyous Exaltation. That forced them to find new allies in order to save their own skins. Had they not lost their fleets and armies, then they would have most likely wiped out Humanity as well, or would have certainly tried to do so. I would imagine them probably not hesitating to exhaust Humanity before taking any chances themselves in a war, seeing as what they do to other races in the Covenant.

Posted by: spurkis
The Arbiter (Thel Vadam) was definitely noble. He tried to convince a swarm of Drones to stop fighting for the Prophets, instead of killing them right away. He also paid his respects in the memorial at the end of Halo 3.

Would Thel have bothered to convince Rtas not to waste the Earth had most of his peoples military not been wiped out? It makes his motives dubious.

The Sangheili just seem like a bunch pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-honourable murderers. Just because they call themselves honourable does not mean that they are. It begs the question.

[Edited on 11.28.2010 12:33 PM PST]

  • 11.28.2010 10:22 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
They fought a 6 year war of attrition against the Brutes. However, seeing as they lack the scientific and technological knowledge to produce ships, weaponry and most Covenant grade technology, they had to abandon the war largely in order to defend Sangheilios due to a falling ship count. They struggle to even repair them you see. They have no purpose in life now, and their whole way of life is at risk of becoming obsolete. That is all we really know, from Evolutions.



making a beneficial trade alliance with the only real governmental power in the galaxy (UNSC) the only logical option.

  • 11.28.2010 10:27 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: spurkis
Okay noble maybe ain't the quite correct word. They are fricking beasts.

Try monsters.

Posted by: spurkis
But they have great respect for war ethics when it all comes to all, they are very honorable

They are very hypocritical, and lack integrity to their own "war ethics". They curse anyone who flees from battle, yet Snahgeili do it to fall back and regroup. Okay, fair enough, a good idea afterall. So when their opponents do the same, why are they suddenly considered cowardly? Have not the Sangheili just done that? Pot calling the kettle black.

They curse the use of devices that can conceal you, such as active camouflage, in saying that only cowards use them. In Headhunters, a Sangheili complains that the only reason the S-III won was due to the cloaking devices that they had used. Unless I was imagining it, Sangheili did not hesitate to use them in order to win, and they used them all the time.

The belief of active camouflage being cowardly roots in their belief of facing your opponent in "honourable" combat. So why is it that they squat in their hollowed out pieces of metal and bombard a planet from orbit? Whenever they are defeated on the ground, they retreat (but wait a minute, I thought that they did not believe in retreat!) and glass the planet in a temper-tantrum. Spartan Red team gave them hell at the orbital generators on Reach. The Sangheili outnumbered them ridiculously, and they still had to resort to bringing in CCS-Cruisers to glass the Spartans. Not honourable combat there is it, a Cruiser Vs a S-II?

"Honourable combat". Says the race that use ridiculously powerful weapons compared to what their enemies have. Who use shields and agility boosting armour that is comparable to Mjolnir systems. The Sangheili are wholly reliant upon technology to win. (Stolen technology btw!)

They do not believe in slaughtering civilians (It does not merit as legitimate combat), so what the hell was the Human-Covenant war all about? And I am not talking about the Glassings, I am speaking of the act of them going into peoples homes and slaughtering the families within, like described in the Return. To paraphrase the Return "after 2 days of Human slaughter in their homes..."

They have no war ethnics, and no integrity, which means they have no honour. Honour is not the act of being a strong warrior. Anyone can kill a person, which is what it seems most people here think. By that logic, Jack the Ripper would be an honourable individual! You must (generally) display Integrity, fairness, nobility, trustworthiness and courage(although not always for courage).

Posted by: spurkis
they are intelligent, strong, basically superior to us in every way.

Bestiarum disagrees with all of this except the stregnth aspect. Leaving even that aside, here is a race that everyone claims to be perceptive, and yet they could not see that Humans were in fact Forerunner artefacts themselves when the Luminaries showed them as such every time a colony was discovered.

Posted by: spurkis
and of course aiding the humans, both by cleaning up the flood infestation in Voi and their assistance in capturing The Citadel on The Ark.

That was not out of kindness, enlightened judgement or atonement, merely an egoistic measure. 60% of their military and Fleets had been wiped out by a NOVA bomb at Joyous Exaltation. That forced them to find new allies in order to save their own skins. Had they not lost their fleets and armies, then they would have most likely wiped out Humanity as well, or would have certainly tried to do so. I would imagine them probably not hesitating to exhaust Humanity before taking any chances themselves in a war, seeing as what they do to other races in the Covenant.

Posted by: spurkis
The Arbiter (Thel Vadam) was definitely noble. He tried to convince a swarm of Drones to stop fighting for the Prophets, instead of killing them right away. He also paid his respects in the memorial at the end of Halo 3.

Would Thel have bothered to convince Rtas not to waste the Earth had most of his peoples military not been wiped out? It makes his motives dubious.

The Sangheili just seem like a bunch pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-honourable murderers. Just because they call themselves honourable does not mean that they are. It begs the question.


They considered us to be abominations, anything they could have done that we did was comnsidered to be a travesty and dirty act, as we were not considered worthy to hold such luxeries as technology, even names.

It wasn't hypocritical, not in the normal sense. They have double standards for different races, but amongst themselves they are a highly noble people.

That and the only time they retreat is when they are to die for no reason (glassing, which is to clense the infection; they consider us no better then the Flood)) or when they have direct orders from the Prophets to not risk religious artifacts.

As for their intellect, they were blinded by faith due to the Prophets. It happrens even to us, where people believe something so harshly, they will blindly follow their faiths and priests, regardless of the little sense it makes.

They are even smarter cause they eventually saw through the lies.

And they never believed in civilian slaughter, never, even at the war's start. Just like faith, they blindly followed the Prophets orders, to kill all of us, even if they didn't agree with it. They were not allowed to speak of the Prophets wrongly.

Cut em some slack man.

[Edited on 11.28.2010 10:40 AM PST]

  • 11.28.2010 10:35 AM PDT

you know the planet john 117 is drifting towards could be one of the covenant's home worlds possibly the brute homeworld but we'll never know will we

  • 11.28.2010 11:10 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
They considered us to be abominations, anything they could have done that we did was considered to be a travesty and dirty act, as we were not considered worthy to hold such luxeries as technology, even names.

So basically, because they did not like it, they called it a travesty? That is hypocrisy, and appealing to the consequence of a belief.

Also, they believed, and they were wrong, which invalidates thier honour. Analysing things relatively does not really work because it makes everything pointless as there is no standard. The standard was that Humanity was nothing like what they thought, therefore they were wrong. It is surprising that they still hold on to their petty beliefs after all of it. The Shipmaster in the Return did not reflect an enlightened attitude towards Humans did he? They have not really changed, which only makes it worse because they are choosing to ignore everything.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
It wasn't hypocritical, not in the normal sense. They have double standards for different races, but amongst themselves they are a highly noble people.

When was slavery noble but? They are a manorial, misogynistic society. Their decisions are often rarely for the benefit of anyone else either. They treat Unggoy as canon fodder so that they can be safer when entering the battlefield. Not only does that make their courage dubious, but it is an unfair decision. They are a selfish race, not a selfless race. (Which one would expect from some who call themselves honourable.) Also, double standards in this case is hypocrisy. Saying it is acceptable and then suddenly saying that it is not acceptable because you do not like someone else doing it is being hypocritical.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
That and the only time they retreat is when they are to die for no reason (glassing, which is to clense the infection; they consider us no better then the Flood)) or when they have direct orders from the Prophets to not risk religious artifacts.

They rarely ever have reason to be on the ground in the first place. Human worlds rarely had Forerunner artefacts. They seemed to be just there for the act of killing, such as Arcadia or Kholo.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
As for their intellect, they were blinded by faith due to the Prophets. It happens even to us, where people believe something so harshly, they will blindly follow their faiths and priests, regardless of the little sense it makes.

Thus their intellect is questionable. What little sense it makes, but yet they still follow it. Blinded by faith is exactly what the result is. If they were intelligent enough to see the rather large mountain of evidence in front of them, they would have come to their senses about a belief which makes "little sense".

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
They are even smarter cause they eventually saw through the lies.

Had they never been betrayed, they would not have. It was a proverbial "boot up the arse" that got them to their senses.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And they never believed in civilian slaughter, never, even at the war's start. Just like faith, they blindly followed the Prophets orders, to kill all of us, even if they didn't agree with it. They were not allowed to speak of the Prophets wrongly.

So, they know that they are committing violations against their own code of conduct, but yet still call themselves aloof with respect to integrity? The Sangheili hold the most control over their own culture of all Covenant races, and they have the choice of what to do on the battle field. They can glass, or they can hit dirtside and face their opponents. Usually, they went dirtside just to slaughter civilian populations by hand (or gun, w/e).

  • 11.28.2010 11:46 AM PDT

I disagree with you. War is war, and the Elites were no worse than the Spartans, or humanity in general. We too must often break our code of conduct in certain situations, and I believe that if the UNSC was as big as The Covenant, they wouldn't hesitate to nuke Sanghelios, Doisac or w/e from orbit.
And I think the UNSC know that there is little to no real purpose in sending a bunch of marines to fight a squad of Elites or Brutes. Those marines are nothing but cannon fodder, just like the Grunts. Atleast gameplay wise.

I thought it was only the Zealots who thought it was nay to fight on the high ground with vehicles, not the whole race of Sangheili. It is also common war strategy nowadays to not just send your whole army on foot into the frontlines when you can sit back and bombard them instead. Maybe the Zealots have a different perspective, but their missions are more underground.

Allying with a faction that once was deeply hostile naturally causes some tension. If I was Rtas I wouldn't neither be so positive about their position right then, and it's been a while since I played Halo 3, but if I remember correctly he became much more friendly as the game progressed.
In addition to this, when the Arbiter was with you and marines, they would often give him negative comments.



Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that the whole war started because the humans "soiled" Forerunner artifacts, atleast that was what the Prophets said so they could get access to The Ark.



[Edited on 11.28.2010 12:38 PM PST]

  • 11.28.2010 12:32 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: spurkis
I disagree with you. War is war, and the Elites were no worse than the Spartans, or humanity in general.

Master Chief in First Strike had the choice to execute Covenant Engineers or let them live. He let them live, because they were no threat. Covenant take stragglers prisoner so that they can execute them for sport...

Posted by: spurkis
We too must often break our code of conduct in certain situations,

If the situation calls for it. Afterall, that was what the Spartan program was, a grief to ethics. However, the Sangheili did not have to go ground side just to take prisoners to execute for sport later, or to just kill civilians for sport. They can glass from orbit. They have quite a nerve to talk about the Jiralhanae being barbarous, do you not think?

Posted by: spurkis
and I believe that if the UNSC was as big as The Covenant, they wouldn't hesitate to nuke Sanghelios, Doisac or w/e from orbit.

Well, after 23 billion people murdered, only a fraction of which being actual military personnel, can one really complain? If the UNSC was not loosing, then there would be no such need for drastic plans. The Covenant are the ones exterminating, not the UNSC. If the UNSC had the capability to destroy the Covenant military, then there would be no need to hit their homeworlds. The Sangheili with no ships left cannot exactly threaten Humanity anymore, as well as the fact that the war would not have been nearly as costly for Humanity.

Posted by: spurkis
And I think the UNSC know that there is little to no real purpose in sending a bunch of marines to fight a squad of Elites or Brutes. Those marines are nothing but cannon fodder, just like the Grunts. Atleast gameplay wise.

Gameplay has nothing to do with it. The Marines as portrayed in the games are pathetic. They are much more effective in the books, being able to hold against Covenant ground forces, which is the way they would actually be. Not telling stupid jokes and acting pseudo-professionally. The difference is, is that these soldiers chose to join the Corps, whilst the Sangheili force the Unggoy into it.

Posted by: spurkis
I thought it was only the Zealots who thought it was nay to fight on the high ground with vehicles, not the whole race of Sangheili. It is also common war strategy nowadays to not just send your whole army on foot into the frontlines when you can sit back and bombard them instead. Maybe the Zealots have a different perspective, but their missions are more underground.

I was not talking specifically about land vehicles, just about ships. If your method of war involves bombarding from orbit, then so long as you say that that is what you do time and time again, then there is no real issue.

The point is, is that the Sangheili claim to face their opponents in combat, yet resort to glassing them when A) They cannot be bothered, or B) When they are defeated on the ground. They claim not kill, in person, civilians, yet they do it anyway. It is the fact that they claim to be honourable by claiming to posses a set of values and beliefs that they do not actually stay true to, that they are not actually what they say they are.

Posted by: spurkis
Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that the whole war started because the humans "soiled" Forerunner artifacts, atleast that was what the Prophets said so they could get access to The Ark.

Humans are the chosen ones of the Forerunner, the ones that are supposed to reclaim their lost technology and take up the Mantle of stewarding the galaxy.

When the soon-to-be Prophet of Truth found this out from a Forerunner AI called Mendicant Bias, he concluded that it would destroy the Covenant religion that says that they are the reclaimers, which was founded on a mistranslation of the word "Reclaimer" as "Reclamation". It would also show that not all of the Forerunner ascended to Godhood, therefore showing that the Great Journey was not absolute and that some of the Covenant could be left behind.

So he decided to make up a load of BS that Humans were Heretics and that they destroy Forerunner artefacts so that he could get the rest of the Covenant to exterminate them. Basically so that the Prophets could keep their power.

;)

[Edited on 11.28.2010 1:07 PM PST]

  • 11.28.2010 12:57 PM PDT

And the Sangheili were blind enough to follow their orders. Sad, but true, but I still think they were wise on many other fields.

This debate seem to not going anywhere for me, it's pretty clear I should read one of the books before diving into such discussions - BUT, from what I've seen from the Halo games, I think the Elites are pretty outstanding in most aspects, if you look away from the brutality of some of them!

  • 11.28.2010 1:04 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: spurkis
This debate seem to not going anywhere for me, it's pretty clear I should read one of the books before diving into such discussions - BUT, from what I've seen from the Halo games, I think the Elites are pretty outstanding in most aspects, if you look away from the brutality of some of them!

Like me, I used to be a fan of Elites, but then I read the novels, and I changed my mind.

;)

  • 11.28.2010 1:10 PM PDT

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