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Subject: So, Picked Up Halsey's Journal....

Managed to get a copy of Halsey's journal hoping it would clear up some of the inconsistentcies and plot holes in Reach's story and it just made things worse. It tries to explain things; the inconsistent number of spartan-2's, apparently all UNSC ships can fly in atmosphere and always could, Halsey's Meranda's mother, the UNSC knew about the Forerunner well before Reach was fully terraformed. It doesn't even try to resolve the FoR with the game. I'm kinda pissed I bought it. Plus there is this on-going obsession with AI that ties into Reach's data pad sub-plot, that ends up stating all the major event's in the series history were set in motion by a council of human AIs. The one thing that made me like the Halo series more than any other sci-fi series/ game was it's expanded and until recently consistent canon. Unless 343 pulls a miracle out of it's butt with the new novels and the next game, I think I might jump ship on the Halo series.

[Edited on 11.29.2010 3:47 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2010 3:37 PM PDT

PEANUT-BUTTER SLAP!

Posted by: Old Salty27
Unless 343 pulls a miracle out of it's butt with the new novels and the next game, I think I might jump ship on the Halo series.
Over mild inconsistencies? Don't be so dramatic.

  • 11.29.2010 3:53 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Old Salty27
Plus there is this on-going obsession with AI that ties into Reach's data pad sub-plot, that ends up stating all the major event's in the series history were set in motion by a council of human AIs.

Could you tell me what canon source, explicitly or otherwise, rules out this possibility because I cannot seem to find it.

  • 11.29.2010 4:03 PM PDT

Error 404:
-Error not found.

Lol fail.
It's just ONE GAME. Just pretend Reach that we got in the disc never happened...

  • 11.29.2010 4:16 PM PDT

In the game there is a series of data pads scattered through out the campaign detailing the activities of a group of AI's through out the course of the Human Covenant War. Dialogue between these AI's reveals that they were responsible for starting the insurrection, exposing the Covenant to humanity and even planting the seeds of the Spartan project.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Data_pads

  • 11.29.2010 4:16 PM PDT

Gad. Fine. I'm being over-dramatic, but I'm still annoyed. -.-

  • 11.29.2010 4:19 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Old Salty27
In the game there is a series of data pads scattered through out the campaign detailing the activities of a group of AI's through out the course of the Human Covenant War. Dialogue between these AI's reveals that they were responsible for starting the insurrection, exposing the Covenant to humanity and even planting the seeds of the Spartan project.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Data_pads

And what does that contradict, which is what I asked?

  • 11.29.2010 4:23 PM PDT

Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
Lol fail.
It's just ONE GAME. Just pretend Reach that we got in the disc never happened...

Well, how Bungie canon works is this: Game content supercedes promotional materials, which in turn supercede books and TV shows and the like. Within that framework, more recent supercedes older.

I would submit it's better to just pretend FoR never happened.

  • 11.29.2010 4:34 PM PDT

Many things from the FoR are referenced and even quoted through Halo:CE, Halo-2 and Halo-3, so pretending the book never happened is kinda dumb.

  • 11.29.2010 4:37 PM PDT

Posted by: Old Salty27
Many things from the FoR are referenced and even quoted through Halo:CE, Halo-2 and Halo-3, so pretending the book never happened is kinda dumb.

Not really. Remember how more recent supercedes older.

  • 11.29.2010 4:59 PM PDT

We knew about the Forerunners for a while there, actually. Just unofficially

  • 11.29.2010 5:19 PM PDT

True. But the journal implies that forerunner ruins were discovered much earlier than stated in the books.

  • 11.29.2010 5:34 PM PDT

One big thing that bugged the hell out of me in the journal is how it turns Halsey into an absolute monster. If you read the books you know she crossed a line in the creation of the Spartan-2s and the flash clones produced to replace them during indoctrination. She does something much worse when she creates Cortana and Camila. She makes a bunch of clones of herself, copies her memories into them, kills them and uses thier brains to create new generation 3 AIs.

  • 11.29.2010 5:44 PM PDT

"Time... Line??? Time is not made out of lines! It is made out of circles... That is why clocks are round!" - Micheal J. Caboose

Posted by: Old Salty27
One big thing that bugged the hell out of me in the journal is how it turns Halsey into an absolute monster. If you read the books you know she crossed a line in the creation of the Spartan-2s and the flash clones produced to replace them during indoctrination. She does something much worse when she creates Cortana and Camila. She makes a bunch of clones of herself, copies her memories into them, kills them and uses thier brains to create new generation 3 AIs.


She WAS pretty much the Dr. Mengele of the 26th century. Regardless of any regret she felt afterwards.


[Edited on 11.29.2010 5:47 PM PST]

  • 11.29.2010 5:47 PM PDT

Posted by: Old Salty27
One big thing that bugged the hell out of me in the journal is how it turns Halsey into an absolute monster. If you read the books you know she crossed a line in the creation of the Spartan-2s and the flash clones produced to replace them during indoctrination. She does something much worse when she creates Cortana and Camila. She makes a bunch of clones of herself, copies her memories into them, kills them and uses thier brains to create new generation 3 AIs.

Ethics never really was her strong suit. I found, though, that the journal humanized her more with all of her regrets about what she had done to the children's families and the washouts and her attepts to make it right.

  • 11.29.2010 5:49 PM PDT


Posted by: Old Salty27
True. But the journal implies that forerunner ruins were discovered much earlier than stated in the books.

How early are you talking about? Cause ONI knew about the forerunners for a while.

  • 11.29.2010 5:52 PM PDT

According to the journal the UNSC discovered Forerunner ruins while mapping Reach's surface even before terraforming took place.

  • 11.29.2010 8:58 PM PDT

I had always thought it was relatively recent; in FoR Halsey finds Forerunner ruins under Castle Base and is completely surprised.

  • 11.29.2010 8:59 PM PDT
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I heard someone say once (paraphrasing here) "Multiflag on Blood Gulch with your friends is what makes Halo, Halo." I GUARANTEE that more people agree with that sentiment than "Getting a 50 in MLG is what makes Halo, Halo." - Oboewan42
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Posted by: Old Salty27
I had always thought it was relatively recent; in FoR Halsey finds Forerunner ruins under Castle Base and is completely surprised.


Just because the UNSC is aware of them, doesn't mean they informed Halsey.

Halsey is considered a civilian after all.

  • 11.29.2010 9:19 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

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Posted by: Old Salty27
I had always thought it was relatively recent; in FoR Halsey finds Forerunner ruins under Castle Base and is completely surprised.


Keep in mind point of view. Halsey didn't exactly start the colony on Reach, build the military base, nor was she privy to every little secret ONI had considering she had to hack and dig around for any information she really wanted. Those tunnels had been discovered way before Reach was attacked otherwise there wouldn't be a tunnel leading to it from the base now would there?

  • 11.30.2010 12:52 AM PDT

I suppose. But in the original canon in the books Halsey is completely surprised by the Forerunner ruins along with the S-3 project, Reach's revised canon turns all this on it's head. At this point the novel's canon is basically worthless when Bungie and 343 keep changing it because they are too lazy to stick to pre-established plots. Reach uses bits and pieces of the books canon at best and essentially re-writes everything else. It's really annoying.

[Edited on 11.30.2010 3:24 PM PST]

  • 11.30.2010 3:18 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Old Salty27
I suppose. But in the original canon in the books Halsey is completely surprised by the Forerunner ruins along with the S-3 project, Reach's revised canon turns all this on it's head. At this point the novel's canon is basically worthless when Bungie and 343 keep changing it because they are too lazy to stick to pre-established plots. Reach uses bits and pieces of the books canon at best and essentially re-writes everything else. It's really annoying


No it doesn't.

She still didn't discover the CASTLE base ruins, nor did she know that Noble Team was comprised of S-IIIs. Not to mention she has no idea about their origins.


The way things progressed in both Halsey's journal and the game it still sets it up for her to be surprised by the CASTLE base ruins and for her to discover the true origins of the S-IIIs for the first time.

  • 11.30.2010 3:26 PM PDT

Whatever inconsistencies FoR had like; Elites only being fielded late in the war, the BR being MIA and some date and name screw ups are relatively minor. Reach changes HUGE plot points that are used through out the games and books; Halsey's knowledge of the the Forerunner and Spartan-3s, Cortana being split(she couldn't do that until first strike after stealing a line of code from a Covenant AI). The PoA flying in atmosphere and being stuck on Reach's surface while it was supposed to be taking part in the orbital battle(this completely derails First Strike). BTW, why is John in cryo in the middle of a landing bay while the Autumn takes off in the game? That's the equivalent of putting someone on a hospital bed in the middle of a aircraft carrier flight deck. O.o

  • 11.30.2010 3:37 PM PDT
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I heard someone say once (paraphrasing here) "Multiflag on Blood Gulch with your friends is what makes Halo, Halo." I GUARANTEE that more people agree with that sentiment than "Getting a 50 in MLG is what makes Halo, Halo." - Oboewan42
Meta | NHL | Kotor


Posted by: Old Salty27
BTW, why is John in cryo in the middle of a landing bay while the Autumn takes off in the game? That's the equivalent of putting someone on a hospital bed in the middle of a aircraft carrier flight deck. O.o


This has been discussed so many times it's not funny. THAT IS AN EASTER EGG, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CANON.

  • 11.30.2010 4:27 PM PDT

Its not pink.

In First Strike, Cortana gains the ability to clone herself. Being split is entirely different, as nothing was copied. Different functions went to different parts. And PoA could have just entered atmosphere after John was in cryo, after the orbital battle (you can tell in the game that we may as well have given up at that last point), and before it made the slipspace jump to Halo.

  • 11.30.2010 7:12 PM PDT

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