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  • Subject: Seventh Column Council
Subject: Seventh Column Council
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This reminded me of something I thought the Council could do. Do you remember how a couple of years ago Emildlux (good ol' Emil, I miss him) created a database called "50 States, 50 Chapters"? In it he listed the best chapter out of every state, based on a number of parameters. Some states without any notable chapters had only a blank entry.

I think the Council could do this. They could maintain a similar database listing the best chapter from each state or territory or country, depending on the circumstances. Perhaps a few members could each be assigned a territory (i.e. one would get Eastern US, another--Western US, another--Hawaii, Alaska, and other countries) that they would regularly go through to judge all the chapters. [on a side note, while doing this they could make a list of all chapters that should be disbanded due to complete inactivity for a good length of time]

This could help chapters to have a reason to improve themselves, and it'll give everyone good examples of what we're striving for here at the 7C. As long as this is done in a fair way (for example, by ignoring the number of members), it could do great things for the Column.

What are your thoughts on this? Perhaps I should start a new thread?

Just my thoughts,
Poocho :)

  • 05.24.2004 10:21 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

My chapter was the best chapter in NY by... I guess you could say default. We were the only chapter he put up, we had no competition. I searched for all chapter on Long island (A certain Part of NY) yesterday and found many. ALOT. Of all of them, only 4 had a news post in the last 2 months, 3 of them in the last month. 2 of those 3 chapters are founded by myself. Its sad knowing 2/3 of the active chapters in my area are run by me. I guess its good that I keep them active but still. Most were still no passports and a lot hadn't had a post in over 6 months.

  • 05.25.2004 1:23 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I do believe that Spartans of Halo have a simliar database. But raelly, that would take away from other delegations.

  • 05.26.2004 7:29 PM PDT
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If I could add one thing to the great deal of thoughtful ideas brought forward, I think one of the biggest problems with the 7th Column is fragmentation of the membership. You may have a number of chapters in a given area (say a city), but only a small percentage of those chapters are active and a smaller number of frustrated members are keeping them active. Imagine what would happen if you could combine the active members of 10 mediocre chapters into one - you'd have a very active group. I would be willing to sacrifice my chapter (not that that's a huge number or anything) for the good of the community and to be part of something better. As I see it, part of the role of an SCC would be to help ensure the vitality of the Column by limiting the number of chapters (I know this sounds fascist but bear with me). For example:

* a basic structure is set up, say a chapter for each state/province.

* once the membership of one of those chapters reaches a certain point (i.e. # of members combined with level of activity) a spinoff chapter could be created based on a population centre or some other criteria.

* the leadership of the spinoff chapter would be chosen from the parent chapter based on their level of activity - NOT popularity (this is an excellent point that has been made many tmies).

* the spinoff chapter would be subject to the authority of the state/province chapter.

* etc., etc., etc.

It's not too terribly complicated except for the fact that it would mean thinning out the existing herd - an idea that would probably go over about as well as a prostate exam from Captain Hook (maybe exceptions could be made based on (again) # of members and activity). If we truly want to help Bungie realize its mission of world domination, however, I think we have to start thinking globally. And that's my 2 cents.

  • 05.27.2004 9:54 AM PDT
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No. Absolutely not. I'm totally against this. It is my strong opinion that this is a bad idea.

[Note that I'm not attacking you, Apollo; I'm just expressing my strong, heartfelt opinion. Read on...]

The thing is, many of us like to have our own intimate chapters. I have a feeling I'd all but leave the Column if I couldn't have my chapter for my friends. Sure it's nice to communicate with other anonymous Halo fans from time to time, but the true joy for me comes from having a chapter just for me and my real-life friends where we don't have to worry about other people interfering in our stuff and generally getting in the way. I like having my OWN chapter. And I think that many others here will agree. After all, the purpose of the 7th Column is for people to join chapters where they can interact with other Halo fans of their choice.

I like the look and feel of my chapter, and I love the intimate connection I have with every database and event and news article and poll. Even when the entries aren't my own, I can put a smiling face to every screen name on there. I can remember fun times I've had with them, both in Halo and otherwise. Those are my friends.

Now imagine an illustration of your suggestion: Let's say that a large convention hall is created in your state to be open 24/7 for all Halo fans in [insert yoru state/province here]. It's filled with booths and activities for all to enjoy. Everyone seems to be having a good time, smiling faces are everywhere. And everyone's wearing a nametag. A bunch of the people there you know just by reputation, since they seem to be there all the time and they like to man many of the booths. However, only about 5% of the people there you would consider close friends with whom you do stuff outside the convention. You and your friends have a busy schedule, so you aren't able to make it as often as many others. When you are there, sure you talk to many of the fans there, but you end up congregating with your own relatively small group of close friends for most of the time. You begin to talk about how much fun your having and how you'd like to do this sort of thing together every now and then, but you'd only want your close friends to come and you'd have your own activities and booths and decorations. But someone overhears you talking, and they comment that Y'ou aren't allowed to do this.' When you protest, they say that 'Since you don't come here very often and you don't operate your own booth and you don't organize your own activities, you can't start your own mini-convention. But you're more than welcome to going to the mini-convention that's going to be started by so-and-so over there who is always here and always operates a number of booths and always gets involved in a number of activities, and you can bring your friends with you if you want. But, no, you can't start your own mini-convention because you don't do enough here. You and your friends will just have to keep going to our conventions if you want to enjoy any Halo activities. Sorry, but rules are rules.'

See my point? The convention would be like the designated state/province chapter, the booths/activities would be like the databases/events/news/polls/etc., the guys who always show up at the convention would be the active members of the chapter, and so-and-so who's gonna start his own mini-convention (chapter) is one of the more active members of the chapter. I think you should get it.

I probably said way more than I needed to to get my point across, but I just feel so strongly about it that I had to make sure.

Just my thoughts,
Poocho :)

P.S. Btw, Appollo, I respect your opinion; I just disagree. Please don't take anything above as offensive or insulting. :)

  • 05.27.2004 12:29 PM PDT
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No offense taken Poocho... this is what a forum is for. Thanks for taking the time to respond so eloquently ;)

I think I understand what you're saying in your convention example and it's absolutely valid - individuality is the soul of the 7C - but I have to disagree with your analogies of convention = chapter and booths = databases/forums/etc.. As I see it, a convention is a gathering of people who share the same interest (i.e. Star Trek), and each exhibitor sets up his/her booth because he/she feels they have something unique to offer those attending the convention. So for my purposes, I'll say [color=green]convention = 7th Column[/color] and [color=green]booths = chapters[/color]. With that in mind...

You and your friends hear about a convention and you all agree to meet there when it opens. Everyone is excited because this convention is about something they really enjoy and know a lot about. In fact, you decide that you would like to set up your own booth at the convention so you can share you enjoyment and knowledge with others. This will be even better because now you and your friends will be able to hang out at your booth and talk to eachother. The big day finally arrives and you're setting up your booth at the convention and watching for your friends arrival (you've worked hard preparing your booth and you can't wait for them to see it). As you see one of your friends approaching, you notice that he has brought stuff for a booth of his own that he starts setting up a few spaces over. The same thing happens for each of your other friends. "No problem." you say to each other, "We'll visit eachother during the convention." But each of you is so busy putting finishing touches on his booth and waiting for visitors that you just can't find the time. About an hour goes by, and you wonder why nobody has come over to see you even though you have a great booth. Looking around, you realize that everyone at the convention has a booth of their own, and that they're all so busy tweeking things and waiting for visitors that they're not going to visit anyone else. ** Insert music from Twilight Zone here **

I suppose my initial post was more of a "thinking-out-loud" thing than an actual suggestion (yes, I'm back-pedaling a little) - because disbanding active chapters is pretty much contrary to what the 7th Column is about. I hope I didn't cheese off any senior members with that suggestion. I'm all for individuality and freedom of expression in the 7C, but I don't think it should come at the cost of the community it is intended to nurture. Maybe it would be enough to do something like limit each member to founding only one chapter ( I have 2 and I'm embarrassed to say neither one is doing well - but I'm working on that), or having prospective founders "apprentice" with a learned elder for a while before being given a chapter. I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill, but it seems to me that something needs to be done about excessively fragmented membership if the 7th Column is to realize its full potential.

  • 05.27.2004 11:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: Apollo1975
No offense taken Poocho... this is what a forum is for. Thanks for taking the time to respond so eloquently ;)


Sure, I know that, but many forum-goers don't. I'd rather go a little out of my way to express my lack of hostility than have some inexperienced forum member be offended.

I think I understand what you're saying in your convention example and it's absolutely valid - individuality is the soul of the 7C - but I have to disagree with your analogies of convention = chapter and booths = databases/forums/etc.. As I see it, a convention is a gathering of people who share the same interest (i.e. Star Trek), and each exhibitor sets up his/her booth because he/she feels they have something unique to offer those attending the convention. So for my purposes, I'll say [color=green]convention = 7th Column[/color] and [color=green]booths = chapters[/color]. With that in mind...

*sigh* If you have to get that picky, fine. It served my purposes, so I guess it can serve yours. Well, we'll see... ;)

You and your friends hear about a convention and you all agree to meet there when it opens. Everyone is excited because this convention is about something they really enjoy and know a lot about. In fact, you decide that you would like to set up your own booth at the convention so you can share you enjoyment and knowledge with others. This will be even better because now you and your friends will be able to hang out at your booth and talk to eachother. The big day finally arrives and you're setting up your booth at the convention and watching for your friends arrival (you've worked hard preparing your booth and you can't wait for them to see it). As you see one of your friends approaching, you notice that he has brought stuff for a booth of his own that he starts setting up a few spaces over. The same thing happens for each of your other friends. "No problem." you say to each other, "We'll visit eachother during the convention." But each of you is so busy putting finishing touches on his booth and waiting for visitors that you just can't find the time. About an hour goes by, and you wonder why nobody has come over to see you even though you have a great booth. Looking around, you realize that everyone at the convention has a booth of their own, and that they're all so busy tweeking things and waiting for visitors that they're not going to visit anyone else. ** Insert music from Twilight Zone here **

Good points. However IMO, your analogy needs a bit of tweaking. Remember your idea was that chapters would be limited to one per state/province. If that is the case, then we need to first bump up the attendance of this convention to over 10,000 (the number of members in the 7th Column. I don't know how many states/provinces are currently represented by 7th Column members (let's say there's about 75), but if every one of them has one chapter, then the average attendance for each booth/chapter would be about 133. So you're gonna have each table (granted, you might be able to increase the size of the table a bit, but you can only go so far) surrounded by 133 people all milling about.

Now, you and your friends show up at your state's booth in a crowd of strangers. Let's say the same conversation as what I first mentioned takes place ("This is fun...let's start our own booth just for us..." "You can't because... But that guy over there is gonna...so you can go to his... But no, sorry, you can't....Tough luck"). You still have the problem of not being able to do anything special with your friends because you only show up here once every couple of weeks. Sure, you can go to the other guy's new booth, but you and your friends will still have to be surrounded by, let's say, 30 other strangers when all you really want to do is have your own private booth where you and your friends get to be behind the table for a change.

I realize that my portrayal of things is the ideal actions of members and that in actuallity many members simply set up new booths only to abandon them after a short time of waiting. But this can be fixed. Read on...

I suppose my initial post was more of a "thinking-out-loud" thing than an actual suggestion (yes, I'm back-pedaling a little) - because disbanding active chapters is pretty much contrary to what the 7th Column is about. I hope I didn't cheese off any senior members with that suggestion. I'm all for individuality and freedom of expression in the 7C, but I don't think it should come at the cost of the community it is intended to nurture. Maybe it would be enough to do something like limit each member to founding only one chapter ( I have 2 and I'm embarrassed to say neither one is doing well - but I'm working on that), or having prospective founders "apprentice" with a learned elder for a while before being given a chapter. I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill, but it seems to me that something needs to be done about excessively fragmented membership if the 7th Column is to realize its full potential.


I agree at least with the first part. Individuallity is good, but you're definitely right in saying that it shouldn't hurt the 7C. So, I think we both agree that we need balance. We need to find a happy medium between a 7C filled to the brim with thousands of empty chapter and a 7C with only a few big chapters. I think that we need to take a closer look at the option of disbanning.

IMO, ambitious members should be able to create a new chapter whenever they want. Everyone should have a chance to set up their own booth. However, it should be clearly stated during the chapter creation process that if there ever occurs a period of complete inactivity in the chapter for 6 months straight, the chapter will be automatically disbanned. This should be a separate step in the process, and it should have it's own "I Agree" checkbox to make sure the new founder doesn't just skip over it. It should be separate from the Terms of Use statement because, honestly, who really reads that any way? [I'm not saying that it isn't important, but the ToU basically tells everyone to 'Be Nice.' Most know this, and they don't bother to read through 20 pages of cryptic rules and regulations and legal mumbo jumbo.]

I think this policy should be just the right balance between harshness and leniency. I'd give 6 months because I know that sometimes things come up that prevent a person/people from being active. They should have a good-sized cushion. But I don't think it's too harsh, because all a person has to do to keep their chapter (for which they may have plans in the future) alive is to log on once and post a quick news item or forum entry. And yes, I think forum activity should be considered chapter activity, even if it wouldn't be considered by the Active-o-Meter. Furthermore, I think, as a professional courtesy, a warning email should be sent to the founder and staff members of the chapters after 5 months have elapsed. That shouldn't be too much trouble to do, and it may just remind those people of what they've forgotten about. This should work!

As for the apprenticeship idea, that doesn't sound too bad! However, I would suggest that it be implemented as an option, rather than a requirement. If a founder knows they know what they're doing, they should be allowed to jump right in to creating a chapter. But if he/she feels it would help them, then they could opt to join the apprenticeship program. Also, there's the fact that each founder has his/her own style. One may love news, one my be highly involved in forums, one may scoff all options but events, and one may preach the saving power of databases! New founders should be allowed to develop their own style. So, really, what could these experienced founders/mentors do but keep saying "Stay active, in whatever way you want"? The idea could work, but it would need some tweaking.

Once again, these are just my opinions. Feel free to disagree (but keep in mind that I don't like to "lose" ;) ).

Just my thoughts,
Poocho :)

  • 05.28.2004 8:59 AM PDT
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Hmmm. Not to be a pest, but I was told that this would be made back into a sticky. It isn't.

Just my prodding,
Poocho :)

  • 06.03.2004 10:45 PM PDT
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Oh come on gimme at least a day before you start with the prodding.

  • 06.04.2004 12:53 AM PDT
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Im slightly new to the community, but I feel that every opinion should be heard.

Posted by: Poocho

I think this policy should be just the right balance between harshness and leniency. I'd give 6 months because I know that sometimes things come up that prevent a person/people from being active. They should have a good-sized cushion. But I don't think it's too harsh, because all a person has to do to keep their chapter (for which they may have plans in the future) alive is to log on once and post a quick news item or forum entry. And yes, I think forum activity should be considered chapter activity, even if it wouldn't be considered by the Active-o-Meter. Furthermore, I think, as a professional courtesy, a warning email should be sent to the founder and staff members of the chapters after 5 months have elapsed. That shouldn't be too much trouble to do, and it may just remind those people of what they've forgotten about. This should work!



Well, it seems Im all-for Poocho...almost. The idea of ending a chapter after 6 months of inactivity seems alittle too lenient. If it was my decision the cut-off would be around 3-4 months. Its not too hard to get to a computer and kick the active-o-meter up a notch or two.

There is an excess of inactive chapters in the 7C, it seems that if the chapter was of good quality then it would never go inactive. These dead chapters not only waste space, but are making the 7C look old and rundown(even though I know its absolutely not). Im not sure if each chapter would have to be manually removed or not. The process would take forever if it was to be manual, but the results are well-worth it(to me at least).

Hopefully, when Halo 2 is released Bungie will open up chapter creating again. Before that happens I also hope that these old, inactive chapters will be disposed of.

This is just my opinion though, there are about 10,000 other's out there that are yet to be heard. I cant wait to start my own chapter ; P !

ST

  • 06.04.2004 3:06 PM PDT
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Some good points on this thread and boy is it long. I esspecially like the last few posts about the disbanding of chapters. One point i would like to make is if a chapter has been inactive long enough could other members be allowed to take over the resposibilties of that chapter. This could be part of the council functions, allowing take over of inactive chapters by active members who petition.

Also they could have some control over the chapter creation process by possibly comeing up with guidelines for chapter creation. i.e. to start chapter founder must be active community member and must have a petition with a certain number of members expressing willingness to join chapter. This would help reduce the amount of one person chapters and hopefully lesson the mortality rate for new chapters. That may help the balance that the last few posts mention.

For the council I like the idea of them taking more control over the content of the main page. this council could suggest topics or articles for the main page news and/or suggest moderators or members for that position. Also this council should probably be accounted for in the update currently going on for the 7th column site. you could definately consider the disbanding/takeover options recently discussed as part of this update as well.

Anyway my 2 cents any other thoughts on purposes of the council?

  • 06.04.2004 3:14 PM PDT
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Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

If a chapter has not activity at all for 3 or 4 months, it should be deleted. If a founder comes back after like 6 months, he can always make a new chapter but 4 or 5 months? My chapters have never gone a week with no activity.

  • 06.05.2004 7:56 AM PDT
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If a chapter was ever good, then in the absense of the founder for say atleast a month the members would keep it active. but no founder that cares would leave a chapter alone for over that period, unless theres a specific reason.

  • 06.05.2004 9:11 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

They better have a damn good reason for leaving for that long of time.

  • 06.05.2004 9:55 AM PDT
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I for one have my reasons for not being able to update my site very often. Ever since December when I graduated from college and lost access to that sweet T1, I've had to do all my Internet usage from home on our 56K whenever the phone line isn't needed or someone of higher rank (ie, my dad) wants to use the computer/Internet. I simply no longer have much time to keep up the relatively massive activity IqV used to have. It used to be great. Emildlux, who created the "50 Chapters, 50 States" database I talked about earlier once said he definitely considered my chapter to be the best in Wisconsin! The Imperatores qui Vici was and still is my pride and joy, but I just don't have to time to get it active again.

I'm sure in the past 5 months or so there have been a month or more that I wasn't able to do anything with it. Sure we still post upcoming events and news for the very most important announcements, but we no longer have awesome database updates or good forum discussions or great polls with lots of votes or the very dear to my heart weekly news items (such as the Momentous Monday Mottofication and the Weekly Wednesday Weview). I miss them dearly, and I sincerely hope that one day I'll be able to return IqV to the glory and splendor that it once was, at least in my mind. . . . But I simply don't have the time right now.

Those are my reasons, and I'm sure there are many founders out there who have good ones as well, just like there are many who don't. That's why I've been so lenient; because I would personally feel absolutely terrible if I logged on 4 months from now and found out that everything that I put into the site is now gone forever. I don't want that to happen to me, and I'm not heartless enough to wish that upon any other founders out there.

When you read this, you should feel a sense of begging in the words.

Just my heartfelt outburst,
Poocho :)

[Edited on 6/5/2004 11:47:28 AM]

  • 06.05.2004 11:44 AM PDT
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An idea to solve the absent founder's problem: simply select a "Co-Founder"!

For example: I am the founder of the "Halo 2" chapter. I know that I wont be able to access a computer for an extended perioid of time(lets say 3 months, past the (2 month)cut-off limit). Since there is no way for me to update the chapter I just share/lend my duties(or powers) to my most trusted/reliable member. This could be called "Co-Founder", or something along those lines. The "Halo 2" chapter would be saved!

This would solve the problem of an absense in a founder resulting in a deleted chapter. Still, this is only an idea of one member, who has never been a founder, and has almost no idea what he is talking about. There are much more experienced members that could contribute!

(Insert Poocho-like signature phrase here.),
ST :/ ?

  • 06.05.2004 6:01 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

Well, or you could find active deicated staff members, sigma is a fine example.

  • 06.05.2004 7:10 PM PDT
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There is an option to do just what you said. Founders have the ability to check a certain little box in the member settings section, and that will give a certain member all available powers except the power to disband. My chapter does have a Co-Founder--Napoleone--but the only term allowed for him is Group Officer. You might think that having a Co-Founder would be a chapter-saver, but there could still be snags. For example, in my case, we have 17 members. However, in our prime, only about 6 members were ever active enough to visit (most we forced to create an account during one of our LAN parties). Circumstances have changed for everyone, so really none of us are active any more. Only I and Napoleone ever visit the site to update it every now and then.

Is that grounds for disbanding? No. Some day we'll have the time and resources to pour into the site. Until then, we'll continue to adjust our circumstances so that we can resurrect the wonderful chapter.

But I do think that if you already have active members and a responsible staff member who can keep things running, your chapter can definitely stand a chance to survive the founder's absence.

Just my thoughts,
Poocho :)

  • 06.05.2004 7:57 PM PDT
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One point i would like to make is if a chapter has been inactive long enough could other members be allowed to take over the resposibilties of that chapter. This could be part of the council functions, allowing take over of inactive chapters by active members who petition.

I like this idea, I have read over most of the thread and here are my thoughts.

First of all, your never going to please anyone. Just keep that in mind when you read this. I like the idea of taking over responsibilities/co-founders, but lets take this a step farther.

Say a chapter hasn't been very active over the last 2 months, mabe 1 forum post a week, almost nothing else, I would think that none of those members are active and delete the chapter.

Now, what if there are 100 members or so, and only 5 of them are active? I would tend to say to merge the chapter with an active one, basically find an active chapter that's about the same and give them all the active members of the other chapter, kick the inact..... waaaaiiiittttt.... almost no chapters, if any, have 100 members or more. The average (from what I've seen) is around 17 or so. Seems to be an all too common number.

That means there are too many chapters, right? I mean shouldn't there be like AT LEAST 50 per chapter? That would keep it truly active, and the # of chapters browsable. So, put limits on the number of chaters that can be created, or disband chapters that don't have at least a given # of members within a given amount of time form when they start (say 17 a month for 2 months or something. The details like dealing with kicks could be worked out later).

Now that's not fair you say - what about those small little chapters of close friends?! Well, You can't please everybody!!!! Remember? Anyway, isin't the 7C supposed to be for active people?

Then again, it is also meant to allow the forming of clans and individuality whether big or small. So, here's a solution: have 2 catagories - or 3 - or as many as you need the keep the 7C organized. All chapters start out in the first one - that one is for not-so-active just-here-to-have-fun people.

This catagory is whare all the inactive chapters go so that you don't have to disband them, which makes it easier to please everyone. So in this case, if a chapter is inactive, it would simply be moved to this catagory after 2 months or so, and would have to stay completely inactive for 6 months or so before it would be deleted. Basically just a catagory for nice little happy chapters of friends or not so active people. Wait, I already said that. Whatever.

So, now you've been here for a few months and have 30 members or so and are very active. What next? Why, a second catagory of course!

This catagory would be for active chapters, with at least a certain number of members, and would have some system of clear organization (I don't know what yet, but that could be dealt with later). This is not for friendly chapters or whatever, it's for fans of Bungie that are active and want to get to know others etc., you know, the other main group of people you find on B.net. These chapters are involved in events, and could be somehow incorperated into this new clan stat syatem Bungie has come up with for H2, I donno, just a thought.

So back to what do you do? Well, you submit a request to the council to be moved to the second catagory. Now, you are somehow organized in a directory of this catagory, and will be removed if you become inactive. This way the active and inactive people are happy at the same time and we also reduce some clutter.

With a system like this, you could keep almost everyone happy and those who cared about organization would have it. Now wait, you said COUNCIL!!!!! How do we deal with their power/ select them?

Well, this is actually simpler than you might think. The 7C is run by Bungie, it's their fan base, and they are in general good at making decisions. So let them make the selections for the council. After all it stands to reason they would want input as they run the 7C and also are the ones who started us taking over the world.

So they select council members. What now? What are the authorities of the council? The council obviously would have to manage which catagories chapters were in. Other than doing that, they could manage the main page (news and spotlight). Oh yeah, to be in the spotlight you need to be in the second group. Makes it easier as the second group is organized.

So you have council authorities, what they do, and a system of organization. What's left to reach the first goal that was laid out? (For those of you who don't remember, it was to be organized, then start local events, etc. etc.)

Well, you need to know just what the council will consist of. Six members? Eight? Will it have a president? Personally I would think Bungie could just select someone for each needed job, like 1 for news, 1 for spotlight, etc., and they would all have their job and Bungie would be ultimatly in charge of selecting new people, but there are also more government-like ways of doing it. And since I'm down to 4769 charachters left in the post, I'll leave the rest of you something to do. =)

Edit: Hey Stosh, I know you are reading this forum, look at the sig!!! =) lol

[Edited on 6/8/2004 4:51:27 PM]

  • 06.08.2004 4:39 PM PDT
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EVRYONESUCKS

  • 06.12.2004 2:33 AM PDT
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Poocho

Member



Member Since: 3/4/2003
Posted: 5/24/2004 10:21 PM

Subject: Seventh Column Council



This reminded me of something I thought the Council could do. Do you remember how a couple of years ago Emildlux (good ol' Emil, I miss him) created a database called "50 States, 50 Chapters"? In it he listed the best chapter out of every state, based on a number of parameters. Some states without any notable chapters had only a blank entry.

I think the Council could do this. They could maintain a similar database listing the best chapter from each state or territory or country, depending on the circumstances. Perhaps a few members could each be assigned a territory (i.e. one would get Eastern US, another--Western US, another--Hawaii, Alaska, and other countries) that they would regularly go through to judge all the chapters. [on a side note, while doing this they could make a list of all chapters that should be disbanded due to complete inactivity for a good length of time]

This could help chapters to have a reason to improve themselves, and it'll give everyone good examples of what we're striving for here at the 7C. As long as this is done in a fair way (for example, by ignoring the number of members), it could do great things for the Column.

What are your thoughts on this? Perhaps I should start a new thread?

Just my thoughts,
Poocho :) Vi et armis
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Halo53

Member



Member Since: 10/12/2002
Posted: 5/25/2004 1:23 PM



My chapter was the best chapter in NY by... I guess you could say default. We were the only chapter he put up, we had no competition. I searched for all chapter on Long island (A certain Part of NY) yesterday and found many. ALOT. Of all of them, only 4 had a news post in the last 2 months, 3 of them in the last month. 2 of those 3 chapters are founded by myself. Its sad knowing 2/3 of the active chapters in my area are run by me. I guess its good that I keep them active but still. Most were still no passports and a lot hadn't had a post in over 6 months. Chapter Founders-Good information for founders
MSXL-Best Chapter on the 7th Column
T7CoL-Chapter set up for 7th column wide XBL tournaments/events
¡Halo¡-All around good chapter
Reply Msg User



Yoozel

Member



Member Since: 9/20/2003
Posted: 5/26/2004 7:29 PM



I do believe that Spartans of Halo have a simliar database. But raelly, that would take away from other delegations. Yoozel?- Overlord in training(?)
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Apollo1975

Member



Member Since: 7/21/2003
Posted: 5/27/2004 9:54 AM



If I could add one thing to the great deal of thoughtful ideas brought forward, I think one of the biggest problems with the 7th Column is fragmentation of the membership. You may have a number of chapters in a given area (say a city), but only a small percentage of those chapters are active and a smaller number of frustrated members are keeping them active. Imagine what would happen if you could combine the active members of 10 mediocre chapters into one - you'd have a very active group. I would be willing to sacrifice my chapter (not that that's a huge number or anything) for the good of the community and to be part of something better. As I see it, part of the role of an SCC would be to help ensure the vitality of the Column by limiting the number of chapters (I know this sounds fascist but bear with me). For example:


a basic structure is set up, say a chapter for each state/province.


once the
organized.

So you have council authorities, what they do, and a system of organization. What's left to reach the first goal that was laid out? (For those of you who don't remember, it was to be organized, then start local events, etc. etc.)

Well, you need to know just what the council will consist of. Six members? Eight? Will it have a president? Personally I would think Bungie could just select someone for each needed job, like 1 for news, 1 for spotlight, etc., and they would all have their job and Bungie would be ultimatly in charge of selecting new people, but there are also more government-like ways of doing it. And since I'm down to 4769 charachters left in the post, I'll leave the rest of you something to do. =)

Edit: Hey Stosh, I know you are reading this forum, look at the sig!!! =) lol

[Edited on 6/8/2004 4:51:27 PM]

  • 06.12.2004 2:34 AM PDT
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-Spartan-010
Founder of the Spartans of Halo
Your all noobs! Haha, I said it!
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Yoozel

Member



Member Since: 9/20/2003
Posted: 6/5/2004 9:55 AM



They better have a damn good reason for leaving for that long of time. Yoozel?- Overlord in training(?)
Reply Msg User



Poocho

Member



Member Since: 3/4/2003
Posted: 6/5/2004 11:44 AM



I for one have my reasons for not being able to update my site very often. Ever since December when I graduated from college and lost access to that sweet T1, I've had to do all my Internet usage from home on our 56K whenever the phone line isn't needed or someone of higher rank (ie, my dad) wants to use the computer/Internet. I simply no longer have much time to keep up the relatively massive activity IqV used to have. It used to be great. Emildlux, who created the "50 Chapters, 50 States" database I talked about earlier once said he definitely considered my chapter to be the best in Wisconsin! The Imperatores qui Vici was and still is my pride and joy, but I just don't have to time to get it active again.

I'm sure in the past 5 months or so there have been a month or more that I wasn't able to do anything with it. Sure we still post upcoming events and news for the very most important announcements, but we no longer have awesome database updates or good forum discussions or great polls with lots of votes or the very dear to my heart weekly news items (such as the Momentous Monday Mottofication and the Weekly Wednesday Weview). I miss them dearly, and I sincerely hope that one day I'll be able to return IqV to the glory and splendor that it once was, at least in my mind. . . . But I simply don't have the time right now.

Those are my reasons, and I'm sure there are many founders out there who have good ones as well, just like there are many who don't. That's why I've been so lenient; because I would personally feel absolutely terrible if I logged on 4 months from now and found out that everything that I put into the site is now gone forever. I don't want that to happen to me, and I'm not heartless enough to wish that upon any other founders out there.

When you read this, you should feel a sense of begging in the words.

Just my heartfelt outburst,
Poocho :)

[Edited on 6/5/2004 11:47:28 AM] Vi et armis
Reply Msg User



ST

Member



Member Since: 5/24/2004
Posted: 6/5/2004 6:01 PM



An idea to solve the absent founder's problem: simply select a "Co-Founder"!

For example: I am the founder of the "Halo 2" chapter. I know that I wont be able to access a computer for an extended perioid of time(lets say 3 months, past the (2 month)cut-off limit). Since there is no way for me to update the chapter I just share/lend my duties(or powers) to my most trusted/reliable member. This could be called "Co-Founder", or something along those lines. The "Halo 2" chapter would be saved!

This would solve the problem of an absense in a founder resulting in a deleted chapter. Still, this is only an idea of one member, who has never been a founder, and has almost no idea what he is talking about. There are much more experienced members that could contribute!

(Insert Poocho-like signature phrase here.),
ST :/ ? Xbox Live Gamertag - ST88

Xbox Connect Tag - ST88

Team Reach

Reply Msg User



Yoozel

Member



Member Since: 9/20/2003
Posted: 6/5/2004 7:10 PM



Well, or you could find active deicated staff members, sigma is a fine example. Yoozel?- Overlord in training(?)
Reply Msg User



Poocho

Member



Member Since: 3/4/2003
Posted: 6/5/2004 7:57 PM



There is an option to do just what you said. Founders have the ability to check a certain little box in the member settings section, and that will give a certain member all available powers except the power to disband. My chapter does have a Co-Founder--Napoleone--but the only term allowed for him is Group Officer. You might think that having a Co-Founder would be a chapter-saver, but there could still be snags. For example, in my case, we have 17 members. However, in our prime, only about 6 members were ever active enough to visit (most we forced to create an account during one of our LAN parties). Circumstances have changed for everyone, so really none of us are active any more. Only I and Napoleone ever visit the site to update it every now and then.

Is that grounds for disbanding? No. Some day we'll have the time and resources to pour into the site. Until then, we'll continue to adjust our circumstances so that we can resurrect the wonderful chapter.

But I do think that if you already have active members and a responsible staff member who can keep things running, your chapter can definitely stand a chance to survive the founder's absence.

Just my thoughts,
Poocho :) Vi et armis
Reply Msg User



GS Destroy

Member



Member Since: 4/20/2004
Posted: 6/8/2004 4:39 PM



One point i would like to make is if a chapter has been inactive long enough could other members be allowed to take over the resposibilties of that chapter. This could be part of the council functions, allowing take over of inactive chapters by active members who petition.

I like this idea, I have read over most of the thread and here are my thoughts.

First of all, your never going to please anyone. Just keep that in mind when you read this. I like the idea of taking over responsibilities/co-founders, but lets take this a step farther.

Say a chapter hasn't been very active over the last 2 months, mabe 1 forum post a week, almost nothing else, I would think that none of those members are active and delete the chapter.

Now, what if there are 100 members or so, and only 5 of them are active? I would tend to say to merge the chapter with an active one, basically find an active chapter that's about the same and give them all the active members of the other chapter, kick the inact..... waaaaiiiittttt.... almost no chapters, if any, have 100 members or more. The average (from what I've seen) is around 17 or so. Seems to be an all too common number.

That means there are too many chapters, right? I mean shouldn't there be like AT LEAST 50 per chapter? That would keep it truly active, and the # of chapters browsable. So, put limits on the number of chaters that can be created, or disband chapters that don't have at least a given # of members within a given amount of time form when they start (say 17 a month for 2 months or something. The details like dealing with kicks could be worked out later).

Now that's not fair you say - what about those small little chapters of close friends?! Well, You can't please everybody!!!! Remember? Anyway, isin't the 7C supposed to be for active people?

Then again, it is also meant to allow the forming of clans and individuality whether big or small. So, here's a solution: have 2 catagories - or 3 - or as many as you need the keep the 7C organized. All chapters start out in the first one - that one is for not-so-active just-here-to-have-fun people.

This catagory is whare all the inactive chapters go so that you don't have to disband them, which makes it easier to please everyone. So in this case, if a chapter is inactive, it would simply be moved to this catagory after 2 months or so, and would have to stay completely inactive for 6 months or so before it would be deleted. Basically just a catagory for nice little happy chapters of friends or not so active people. Wait, I already said that. Whatever.

So, now you've been here for a few months and have 30 members or so and are very active. What next? Why, a second catagory of course!

This catagory would be for active chapters, with at least a certain number of members, and would have some system of clear organization (I don't know what yet, but that could be dealt with later). This is not for friendly chapters or whatever, it's for fans of Bungie that are active and want to get to know others etc., you know, the other main group of people you find on B.net. These chapters are involved in events, and could be somehow incorperated into this new clan stat syatem Bungie has come up with for H2, I donno, just a thought.

So back to what do you do? Well, you submit a request to the council to be moved to the second catagory. Now, you are somehow organized in a directory of this catagory, and will be removed if you become inactive. This way the active and inactive people are happy at the same time and we also reduce some clutter.

With a system like this, you could keep almost everyone happy and those who cared about organization would have it. Now wait, you said COUNCIL!!!!! How do we deal with their power/ select them?

Well, this is actually simpler than you might think. The 7C is run by Bungie, it's their fan base, and they are in general good at making decisions. So let them make the selections for the council. After all it stands to reason they would want input as they run the 7C and also are the ones who started us taking over the world.

So they select council members. What now? What are the authorities of the council? The council obviously would have to manage which catagories chapters were in. Other than doing that, they could manage the main page (news and spotlight). Oh yeah, to be in the spotlight you need to be in the second group. Makes it easier as the second group is organized.

So you have council authorities, what they do, and a system of organization. What's left to reach the first goal that was laid out? all have their job and Bungie would be ultimatly in charge of selecting new people, but there are also more government-like ways of doing it. And since I'm ---- I call the Puma!! ----

  • 06.12.2004 2:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mr Homicide
-Spartan-010
Founder of the Spartans of Halo
Your all noobs! Haha, I said it!
Reply Msg User
yes excellent


Yoozel

Member



Member Since: 9/20/2003
Posted: 6/5/2004 9:55 AM



They better have a damn good reason for leaving for that long of time. Yoozel?- Overlord in training(?)
Reply Msg User



Poocho

Member



Member Since: 3/4/2003
Posted: 6/5/2004 11:44 AM



I for one have my reasons for not being able to update my site very often. Ever since December when I graduated from college and lost access to that sweet T1, I've had to do all my Internet usage from home on our 56K whenever the phone line isn't needed or someone of higher rank (ie, my dad) wants to use the computer/Internet. I simply no longer have much time to keep up the relatively massive activity IqV used to have. It used to be great. Emildlux, who created the "50 Chapters, 50 States" database I talked about earlier once said he definitely considered my chapter to be the best in Wisconsin! The Imperatores qui Vici was and still is my pride and joy, but I just don't have to time to get it active again.

I'm sure in the past 5 months or so there have been a month or more that I wasn't able to do anything with it. Sure we still post upcoming events and news for the very most important announcements, but we no longer have awesome database updates or good forum discussions or great polls with lots of votes or the very dear to my heart weekly news items (such as the Momentous Monday Mottofication and the Weekly Wednesday Weview). I miss them dearly, and I sincerely hope that one day I'll be able to return IqV to the glory and splendor that it once was, at least in my mind. . . . But I simply don't have the time right now.

Those are my reasons, and I'm sure there are many founders out there who have good ones as well, just like there are many who don't. That's why I've been so lenient; because I would personally feel absolutely terrible if I logged on 4 months from now and found out that everything that I put into the site is now gone forever. I don't want that to happen to me, and I'm not heartless enough to wish that upon any other founders out there.

When you read this, you should feel a sense of begging in the words.

Just my heartfelt outburst,
Poocho :)

[Edited on 6/5/2004 11:47:28 AM] Vi et armis
Reply Msg User



ST

Member



Member Since: 5/24/2004
Posted: 6/5/2004 6:01 PM



An idea to solve the absent founder's problem: simply select a "Co-Founder"!

For example: I am the founder of the "Halo 2" chapter. I know that I wont be able to access a computer for an extended perioid of time(lets say 3 months, past the (2 month)cut-off limit). Since there is no way for me to update the chapter I just share/lend my duties(or powers) to my most trusted/reliable member. This could be called "Co-Founder", or something along those lines. The "Halo 2" chapter would be saved!

This would solve the problem of an absense in a founder resulting in a deleted chapter. Still, this is only an idea of one member, who has never been a founder, and has almost no idea what he is talking about. There are much more experienced members that could contribute!

(Insert Poocho-like signature phrase here.),
ST :/ ? Xbox Live Gamertag - ST88

Xbox Connect Tag - ST88

Team Reach

Reply Msg User



Yoozel

Member



Member Since: 9/20/2003
Posted: 6/5/2004 7:10 PM



Well, or you could find active deicated staff members, sigma is a fine example. Yoozel?- Overlord in training(?)
Reply Msg User



Poocho

Member



Member Since: 3/4/2003
Posted: 6/5/2004 7:57 PM



There is an option to do just what you said. Founders have the ability to check a certain little box in the member settings section, and that will give a certain member all available powers except the power to disband. My chapter does have a Co-Founder--Napoleone--but the only term allowed for him is Group Officer. You might think that having a Co-Founder would be a chapter-saver, but there could still be snags. For example, in my case, we have 17 members. However, in our prime, only about 6 members were ever active enough to visit (most we forced to create an account during one of our LAN parties). Circumstances have changed for everyone, so really none of us are active any more. Only I and Napoleone ever visit the site to update it every now and then.

Is that grounds for disbanding? No. Some day we'll have the time and resources to pour into the site. Until then, we'll continue to adjust our circumstances so that we can resurrect the wonderful chapter.

But I do think that if you already have active members and a responsible staff member who can keep things running, your chapter can definitely stand a chance to survive the founder's absence.

Just my thoughts,
Poocho :) Vi et armis
Reply Msg User



GS Destroy

Member



Member Since: 4/20/2004
Posted: 6/8/2004 4:39 PM



One point i would like to make is if a chapter has been inactive long enough could other members be allowed to take over the resposibilties of that chapter. This could be part of the council functions, allowing take over of inactive chapters by active members who petition.

I like this idea, I have read over most of the thread and here are my thoughts.

First of all, your never going to please anyone. Just keep that in mind when you read this. I like the idea of taking over responsibilities/co-founders, but lets take this a step farther.

Say a chapter hasn't been very active over the last 2 months, mabe 1 forum post a week, almost nothing else, I would think that none of those members are active and delete the chapter.

Now, what if there are 100 members or so, and only 5 of them are active? I would tend to say to merge the chapter with an active one, basically find an active chapter that's about the same and give them all the active members of the other chapter, kick the inact..... waaaaiiiittttt.... almost no chapters, if any, have 100 members or more. The average (from what I've seen) is around 17 or so. Seems to be an all too common number.

That means there are too many chapters, right? I mean shouldn't there be like AT LEAST 50 per chapter? That would keep it truly active, and the # of chapters browsable. So, put limits on the number of chaters that can be created, or disband chapters that don't have at least a given # of members within a given amount of time form when they start (say 17 a month for 2 months or something. The details like dealing with kicks could be worked out later).

Now that's not fair you say - what about those small little chapters of close friends?! Well, You can't please everybody!!!! Remember? Anyway, isin't the 7C supposed to be for active people?

Then again, it is also meant to allow the forming of clans and individuality whether big or small. So, here's a solution: have 2 catagories - or 3 - or as many as you need the keep the 7C organized. All chapters start out in the first one - that one is for not-so-active just-here-to-have-fun people.

This catagory is whare all the inactive chapters go so that you don't have to disband them, which makes it easier to please everyone. So in this case, if a chapter is inactive, it would simply be moved to this catagory after 2 months or so, and would have to stay completely inactive for 6 months or so before it would be deleted. Basically just a catagory for nice little happy chapters of friends or not so active people. Wait, I already said that. Whatever.

So, now you've been here for a few months and have 30 members or so and are very active. What next? Why, a second catagory of course!

This catagory would be for active chapters, with at least a certain number of members, and would have some system of clear organization (I don't know what yet, but that could be dealt with later). This is not for friendly chapters or whatever, it's for fans of Bungie that are active and want to get to know others etc., you know, the other main group of people you find on B.net. These chapters are involved in events, and could be somehow incorperated into this new clan stat syatem Bungie has come up with for H2, I donno, just a thought.

So back to what do you do? Well, you submit a request to the council to be moved to the second catagory. Now, you are somehow organized in a directory of this catagory, and will be removed if you become inactive. This way the active and inactive people are happy at the same time and we also reduce some clutter.

With a system like this, you could keep almost everyone happy and those who cared about organization would have it. Now wait, you said COUNCIL!!!!! How do we deal with their power/ select them?

Well, this is actually simpler than you might think. The 7C is run by Bungie, it's their fan base, and they are in general good at making decisions. So let them make the selections for the council. After all it stands to reason they would want input as they run the 7C and also are the ones who started us taking over the world.

So they select council members. What now? What are the authorities of the council? The council obviously would have to manage which catagories chapters were in. Other than doing that, they could manage the main page (news and spotlight). Oh yeah, to be in the spotlight you need to be in the second group. Makes it easier as the second group is organized.

So you have council authorities, what they do, and a system of organization. What's left to reach the first goal that was laid out? all have their job and Bungie would be ultimatly in charge of selecting new people, but there are also more government-like ways of doing it. And since I'm ---- I call the Puma!! ----

  • 06.12.2004 2:36 AM PDT
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GOD am I pushin it here, or WHAT??!?!?!?

  • 06.12.2004 2:36 AM PDT
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don't post bump.

  • 06.12.2004 4:49 AM PDT