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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Do you believe the ego should be embraced or controlled? Why?

difficult question if i'm understanding it correctly. kind of like choosing between chaos and order. both have their uses and functions, but extremes of either can result in dysfunction.
should a murderer/ped()phile/etc. embrace his ego? should a person brought up in a racist region/family not allow himself to think outside the bounds of race/color/etc.? i think balance between embracing and controlling the self is critical in allowing yourself to grow as a person. Part Animal, Part Machine.

EDIT:
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Just knowing someone else touched it makes me feel dirty.
(I'm only this way with door knobs and books)

so i guess you're the kind of person that uses a paper towel to handle knobs/latches in public restrooms?

[Edited on 8/19/2004 10:59:17 AM]

  • 08.19.2004 10:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Posted by: finalwaltz
There's a difference between embracing your ego, and shoving it in other's faces for your own personal enjoyment. It's good to have a strong ego, it's how you show it to others that matters.


Hmmm, not sure if you're on the right track or not.

Ego, in this sense, is the same as some eastern religions' idea on it. "Ego" is who you are. The Samanas, for instance, attempted to get rid of the ego and reach enlightenment by torturing their bodies.


Yummy.

  • 08.19.2004 11:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
My phobia, like most, isn't based on reality, but I still have it.

It's even the feel of a book. Just knowing someone else touched it makes me feel dirty.

(I'm only this way with door knobs and books)


So your like bob in What about Bob? I trust you've seen that movie, if not SEE IT, it's very funny.

  • 08.19.2004 11:04 AM PDT

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Posted by: The Elite_elite
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
My phobia, like most, isn't based on reality, but I still have it.

It's even the feel of a book. Just knowing someone else touched it makes me feel dirty.

(I'm only this way with door knobs and books)


So your like bob in What about Bob? I trust you've seen that movie, if not SEE IT, it's very funny.


Obbi's phobia really has nothing to do with the Ego...

Obbi - If I might venture something here -- Is it ironic to you to start this thread - considering many people on Bungie.net think you yourself are a wee bit egotistical? This isn't an attempt at an insult, and anyone who takes it that way should be shot - besides - many more people on here consider me egotistical as well.

As for the Ego -- I'm not sure in which respect you truly mean it -- nor does it matter -- my opinion would be the same - I think that we should embrace every part of our being - whatever helps to differentiate us from everything else... I think it's wrong to attempt to destroy any part of one's being.

  • 08.19.2004 11:14 AM PDT
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Note-I haven't read the responses, so if I'm repeating someone else I apologise.

Weither or not your ego should be controlled or embraced depends. For example, the ego of an insane person should be controlled. In most cases it should be embraced, but not to the extent that it interfeers with anyone else. If I get an impulse to ask a question, I never hesitate. If I get the urge to chop off someones hand, I give it thought about weither or not it would be more benifisial to me then the damage it will surely inflict upon me.

I'm not sure if that was what you were looking for Obbi... but I gave it a shot.

  • 08.19.2004 11:29 AM PDT
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In the end we are all the same, in the respect of biology. We are made of the same tissue, organs, etc. It is therefore, in my opinion, unfair to say any one persons ego should be controlled in regard to their mental state, race religion, the way in which someone has been brought up.

In many ways there are a lot of other issues involved with this question. There is the clear ethical issue (should a 'normal' person have any more right to a 'free' and embraced ego than an 'abnormal' person) as well as the importance of 'The Ego' in any given persons life. Also, religion could be seen to weigh heavily in this discussion.

In my opinion, everyone has a right to embrace their ego, if they choose to. Obviously, I am thinking about this on a personal level- For instance, if I decide to embrace my ego, and because of that I decide to do something that will harm someone else, then the debate as well as my opinion will clearly change as a result.

Ah, there is no easy answer. Obviously, both options have +tves an -tves.

If we were all to embrace ourselves, our egos, we could almost have a sense of freedom-freedom from having to hold our own personalities back. We could just be ourselves all of the time- whoever we happen to be. The downside is, of course, negative emotions. We all have them, although very often we can cover them up, put on a front, but if we were to embrace our egos, these emotions could not be controlled-That would surely be against the idea of embracement.

As for repression of Ego, well it would be safe. All of our bad qualities would be locked away, for no one else to experience or see. However, all of our good qualities would be locked away also.

There are many more points to make, this is just a taster, some things I have thought about.

In many ways, throughout our everyday life, we tread the thin line between embracement and control of our egos. Sometimes we may fall off either way. For example, when I split up with my girlfriend this week, I walked through town crying. This, i believe, was me embracing my ego, accepting my feelings for what they were. Other times, someone may have said something that irritated or displeased me, but I said or did nothing. This was me controlling my ego, for the sake of friendship.

Ah I hope my ramblings made some sort of sense, and I hope they were relevant. Its good to see something interesting posted. Good job Obbi.

  • 08.19.2004 12:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I think that we should embrace every part of our being - whatever helps to differentiate us from everything else... I think it's wrong to attempt to destroy any part of one's being.

i have destroyed my color, my race, my religion, and to some extent my gender. why? because i do not wish to be defined by any of those things. and because it allows me to see the world in a similar manner. without prejudice or stereotype or hatred. of course, that's not to say that anyone who doesn't share my view is a bigot. and it certainly doesn't mean i have no appreciation of culture. i just happen to believe that people breed culture.

EDIT:
think of it in terms of pruning. you remove the things that stifle growth. stagnation is not something that humankind should strive for. but at the same time, we should not be in such a rush to evolve that we forget our selves.

[Edited on 8/19/2004 12:43:03 PM]

  • 08.19.2004 12:03 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Holy crap.... Obbiquiet, the last person in the forums I had expected to do this, has rekindled my "faith" in Bungie.net with this, this amazing topic! I love stuff like this!

<ahem>

Now to get on-topic, I think ego should be controlled. I might not be getting the definition you gave, but it seems to me that people with big egos are very selfish, only caring about themselves, and trying to force themselves onto others (not literally, of course). People should keep thoughts about what they want to themselves, and shouldn't confuse the concept of want with the concept of need. You can see this confusion a lot in womanizers (or "manizers," I suppose), and in others who "want a piece of ass." (I know that's not the only place, but -blam!- lust... "promotes" (is that the right word?) ego very often).

In one of your definitions you gave, you said that Ego is your Self... This brings up a bit of confusion (again, perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the definition). If your Self is a generally outgoing, caring entity, wanting to help others, then should that particular ego be controlled? That definition says that ego varies, and what it is depends upon the person... like personality.

Just what I think, anyway... Perhaps I'm wrong on this. I'll try to comment more on this when I figure out the right way to form my thoughts into words.



[Edited on 8/19/2004 12:48:32 PM]

  • 08.19.2004 12:30 PM PDT
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(Dyonisius vs. Apollo, correct?)

Ego, if seen as the subconcious and thus most instinctive part of our being, will always strive to be satisfied, however, humans never stand alone in their environment (other humans and other 'obstacles') and therefor the complete satisfaction of our ego can never be achieved (since some of it's 'wishes' won't cope with the 'wishes' of others and for the sake of procreation [our main instinctive after survival] we must strive to have some sort of harmony with those in our immediate environment) and thus it (our ego) will seem controlled, but to believe we actually have the choice wether to fully control it or not is imo irrealistic. Subconscious thoughts are uncontrollable because of the very reason that we cannot think about them before we execute them.

P.S.: Sorry if I don't make any sense, but since English is not my native tongue I'm a little impaired in this discussion when it comes to explaining myself.


[Edited on 8/19/2004 1:08:34 PM]

  • 08.19.2004 12:58 PM PDT

In his forum I have no body, no physical appearance, no strength, no weakness. In truth, everyone here is their ego, or their pure personality, because in a world of mind physical interaction cannot exist. We have no physical being holding our egos back; our online persona is our ego.

-my two cents.

  • 08.19.2004 1:07 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Posted by: Banshee Barron
In his forum I have no body, no physical appearance, no strength, no weakness. In truth, everyone here is their ego, or their pure personality, because in a world of mind physical interaction cannot exist. We have no physical being holding our egos back; our online persona is our ego.

-my two cents.


But sometimes that virtual personna is only a mask... There to hide that which is. Some people are phobic and/or paranoid about letting faceless people (the virtual personalities) see who they really are.

With something like that example, are they multi-egoed, or egoless?

  • 08.19.2004 1:12 PM PDT

Posted by: Shai Hulud
Posted by: Banshee Barron
In his forum I have no body, no physical appearance, no strength, no weakness. In truth, everyone here is their ego, or their pure personality, because in a world of mind physical interaction cannot exist. We have no physical being holding our egos back; our online persona is our ego.

-my two cents.


But sometimes that virtual personna is only a mask... There to hide that which is. Some people are phobic and/or paranoid about letting faceless people (the virtual personalities) see who they really are.

With something like that example, are they multi-egoed, or egoless?


The person wanting to hide or expand their ego would be apart of their ego, I suppose. You bring up a very good question.

  • 08.19.2004 1:22 PM PDT
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Why must it be one, or the other? I embrace my Ego, yet control it. A difficult task, not 100% effective, but it's saved me from quite a bit of self-destructive behavior.

The best way to enjoy separaton from the ego is to either:
1. spend years studying meditation and various forms of behavior control, martial arts, magik, various mystical religions... yada yada. Probably the best of the two ways of learning to control and embrace one's ego, to separate the ego from the self, as much of a conundrum as that must seem.

2. Psychedelic Drugs. Normally, I would not encourage the use of such controversial and dangerous substances such as D-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide-25 (LSD) , Psilocybe Mushrooms, Mescaline/Peyote Cactus, Dimethyltryptamine (DMT), Bufotenine (From the skin of Bufo Alvarius, american Bull Frog), Salvia Divinorum, Amanita Muscaria Mushrooms (Fly Agaric), 2-CB, 2-CI, 5MeO-DMT, 5MeO-DiPT, 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, Ecstacy), Delta-9 Tetrahydocannibinol (THC, Marijuana) or any other psychedelic compound/substance.

However, in the endless universe of the human mind, these substaces are incredible tools. As hard as this is going to be to explain, or justify, it is nothing compared to how difficult it would be to explain their effects. In all essence, many of these drugs have the incredible power of alienating oneself from reality to such a degree, that every day experiences are suddenly completely different, that is the system by which one percieves reality has changed, and the change can be PERMANANT. So be careful if you're going to start doing this kind of stuff... I've witnessed many train wrecks, and had a few of my own.

So when one essentially has a clean slate- being in a state where normal human behavior is quite alien, and one might, on impulse, do something stupid according to the way normal humans think- it becomes much easier to take a look at not only yourself, but everything else from a completely different perspective. It can be an incredibly lucid state, one where you can literally understand what everyone else is thinking, everyone's hidden agenda's, everyones bull-blam!- becomes very transparent. Oneself becomes transparent, you begin to see your own behaviors, and in a neutral state, you can destroy the destructive ones. One can effectively quit smoking, start eating healthy, become less violent, find god, in this situation. You are now in complete control of your mind (this takes MUCH experience to master, but after many experiences with psychedelics, I can literally control every part of my subconscious, find something I hate about myself and fix it, the possibilites are ENDLESS.

The dangerous part is, after the experience is over, these changes (many of which are probably actual physiological changes in the structure of your brain, i.e. "flashbacks," being a semi-permanent change in your neural pathways, such that a particular thought or event can cause one to feel as though they are "tripping") can become permanent, (truely it is up to the user, however not many people are in touch with themselves enough to realize how much control they have). I know people who, after taking many a psychedelic drug, are now faced with social and psychological disorders such as anxiety, and depression, because most likely one of their experiences focused on that particular emotion, and hard wired it into their brain as a reaction to certain experiences. However, I know people, myself being one of them, who have overcome things like depression, or anxiety.

I could write HUNDREDS of pages about this topic, in fact, much of my life is devoted to drugs, and their ability to seperate oneself from the Human Condition, in a vain attempt to either conquor and cure the Human Condition, to understand it, or to ultimately, transcend it, and become as close to God as possible (enlightened, granted access to heaven, eternal bliss, the end of suffering...).

Thats all I have to say for now, but seriously, everyone should check this website out.

Much Knowledge

  • 08.19.2004 1:22 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Ego being your Self doesn't make a lot of sense to me.... Even if you manage to separate completely from yourself, your separate Self would then become your Ego...

Sorry, that definition is hard for me to get ahold of.... Time to spend a night or so thinking on it! Woohoo! Food for thought!

  • 08.19.2004 1:25 PM PDT
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The forum is a great place! One can be their Ideals, can stuff one's ego to the brim without ever causing it harm, because you know, and everyone knows, that their forum "avatar" is not who they are. You cannot see my intricate bodily reactions to your speech, my behavioral reactions to your comments. My defense mechanisms are rarely used, I can be whoever the hell I want to be here.

  • 08.19.2004 1:26 PM PDT

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Posted by: BadKarma
Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I think that we should embrace every part of our being - whatever helps to differentiate us from everything else... I think it's wrong to attempt to destroy any part of one's being.

i have destroyed my color, my race, my religion, and to some extent my gender. why? because i do not wish to be defined by any of those things. and because it allows me to see the world in a similar manner. without prejudice or stereotype or hatred. of course, that's not to say that anyone who doesn't share my view is a bigot. and it certainly doesn't mean i have no appreciation of culture. i just happen to believe that people breed culture.

EDIT:
think of it in terms of pruning. you remove the things that stifle growth. stagnation is not something that humankind should strive for. but at the same time, we should not be in such a rush to evolve that we forget our selves.


It has nothing to do with your ego, Karma... That's simply denying yourself some of your own points -- You should aways be proud (to a point) of anything you do or are. Race, religion gender etc. won't have any bearing on your ego, and shouldn't affect the way people view you either --

If you have to do this to cope with your own environment I pity you - because anyone who defines you in such a manner isn't worth knowing anyway - and you are going to be just as bad as they are..

Pruning parts of your self-being and awareness is an awful damaging thing to do -- you cannot hope to evolve yourself without knowing where you have been.

  • 08.19.2004 1:26 PM PDT
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And I'm not trying to say, that I'm some sort of omnicient being here, just that I've hit the tip of an enormous iceberg that many people are oblivious to. The most incredible and detailed universes are certainly to be found within. I have an Ego, and it gets inflated. But what I'm trying to say here, is that I know damn well when I'm full of -blam!-. Such that I can stop being full of -blam!- without damaging my self esteem. Where my ego is constructive to both myself and others, and the greatest way of feeding my ego is by helping others.

So don't get the wrong Idea, I'm probably more f,ucked up than most people, I just happen to have a detailed understanding of my particular strain of the Human Condition, and I will try until I die, to transcend that.

  • 08.19.2004 1:32 PM PDT

Posted by: Shai Hulud
Ego being your Self doesn't make a lot of sense to me.... Even if you manage to separate completely from yourself, your separate Self would then become your Ego...

Sorry, that definition is hard for me to get ahold of.... Time to spend a night or so thinking on it! Woohoo! Food for thought!


Meh. I don't necessarily agree with Obbi's definition of an "ego". It has too many unexplained questions in my opinion- too many flaws. I gave my answer under the parameters he set with the definition- a definition that I do not agree with. I would be sure that that you, Obbi, could give me a much better explanation of the human ego.

And by the way, this is the most deep I have ever seen these forums get. I'm glad you could bring something new to the table, Obbi.

[Edited on 8/19/2004 1:37:37 PM]

  • 08.19.2004 1:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Posted by: BadKarma
Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I think that we should embrace every part of our being - whatever helps to differentiate us from everything else... I think it's wrong to attempt to destroy any part of one's being.

i have destroyed my color, my race, my religion, and to some extent my gender. why? because i do not wish to be defined by any of those things. and because it allows me to see the world in a similar manner. without prejudice or stereotype or hatred. of course, that's not to say that anyone who doesn't share my view is a bigot. and it certainly doesn't mean i have no appreciation of culture. i just happen to believe that people breed culture.

EDIT:
think of it in terms of pruning. you remove the things that stifle growth. stagnation is not something that humankind should strive for. but at the same time, we should not be in such a rush to evolve that we forget our selves.


It has nothing to do with your ego, Karma... That's simply denying yourself some of your own points -- You should aways be proud (to a point) of anything you do or are. Race, religion gender etc. won't have any bearing on your ego, and shouldn't affect the way people view you either --

If you have to do this to cope with your own environment I pity you - because anyone who defines you in such a manner isn't worth knowing anyway - and you are going to be just as bad as they are..

Pruning parts of your self-being and awareness is an awful damaging thing to do -- you cannot hope to evolve yourself without knowing where you have been.


Very very true my friend, We are, to a certain extent, everything that we've experienced in our lifetimes. Every attribute of our selves has been forged in part, by our surroundings, and to deny that is to ultimately deny oneself. You cannot remove who you are, only use it to build who you can be. It is not until the very highest level of self-understanding that you can truely remove these things. Be it in death, or enlightenment.

  • 08.19.2004 1:36 PM PDT
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I think they're good, but Aunt Jemima makes better waffles.

  • 08.19.2004 1:37 PM PDT
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Sigmund Freud Would have a field day with you lot...

Sounds like a little to much of an id thing at this point with you guys, I have no ego... I'm a blank emotionless programmer and novel writer.

  • 08.19.2004 1:41 PM PDT
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Meh, does it look like I control my ego? Controlling your ego is for those yoga dudes that need to get a life. I just like to be myself, and if my ego comes out through it, then it's fine by me.

As for Ego waffles, I prefer homemade. I swear I put those Ego waffles in the toaster on the highest setting ten times and they're still cold.

  • 08.19.2004 1:43 PM PDT
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danm there were alot of big words in that deffinition, head hurts.

  • 08.19.2004 1:45 PM PDT
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WTF EGO WAFFLES?!?!?!

Like I said... Sigmund Freud would have a field day with you lot.

[Edited on 8/19/2004 1:49:37 PM]

  • 08.19.2004 1:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: agent404
Meh, does it look like I control my ego? Controlling your ego is for those yoga dudes that need to get a life. I just like to be myself, and if my ego comes out through it, then it's fine by me.


Ah, its always good to have a meaningful addition to a debate.

EDIT: This does add futher weight to Banshees arguement that your internet persona IS your ego-I highly doubt this person would talk like this in reality.

[Edited on 8/19/2004 1:56:47 PM]

  • 08.19.2004 1:51 PM PDT

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