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This topic has moved here: Subject: Spartans don't die. They are M.I.A.
  • Subject: Spartans don't die. They are M.I.A.
Subject: Spartans don't die. They are M.I.A.

So guys. If Johnson was a spartan I then he would have been recorded M.I.A. Is there any evidence?

  • 12.07.2010 6:29 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

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I have seen you future

Johnson was a Spartan I, that phrase only applies to later iterations of the Spartan program.

  • 12.07.2010 6:36 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: calistrat1991
So guys. If Johnson was a spartan I then he would have been recorded M.I.A. Is there any evidence?

Spartan Is were not official Spartans, they're simply the predecessors of the augmented soldiers program to the Spartan IIs. Dr. Halsey only gave the men and women of Project ORION the de-facto name of Spartan I to commemorate their sacrifices. TBH I don't even think Spartan IIIs would be recorded MIA in normal circumstances, as only the Spartan IIs went public, and that was why ONI directive 930 was created. The only exception is when Kurt marked two SP-IIIs as MIA, but that was largely sentimental.

  • 12.07.2010 6:39 PM PDT
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Everybody loves Grunts!


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: calistrat1991
So guys. If Johnson was a spartan I then he would have been recorded M.I.A. Is there any evidence?

Spartan Is were not official Spartans, they're simply the predecessors of the augmented soldiers program to the Spartan IIs. Dr. Halsey only gave the men and women of Project ORION the de-facto name of Spartan I to commemorate their sacrifices. TBH I don't even think Spartan IIIs would be recorded MIA in normal circumstances, as only the Spartan IIs went public, and that was why ONI directive 930 was created. The only exception is when Kurt marked two SP-IIIs as MIA, but that was largely sentimental.


I think the public thought that S-IIIs were just more S-IIs. Or they just didn't know they existed. S-IIs were known for being almost unkillable, and the M.I.A thing may have been for military only. Just knowing that a company's only SPARTAN isn't dead can boost morale.

S-Is isn't even the official name anyway. It's like the slang version of ORION, and named that way because it was the earliest forays into SPARTAN sugmentation research.

  • 12.07.2010 8:38 PM PDT
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Spartan Is were not official Spartans,

SPARTAN was the official codename used for the ORION project.

  • 12.07.2010 8:44 PM PDT
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Everybody loves Grunts!


Posted by: opogjijijp
Spartan Is were not official Spartans,

SPARTAN was the official codename used for the ORION project.


I stand corrected.

  • 12.07.2010 8:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gruntpacolypto

Posted by: opogjijijp
Spartan Is were not official Spartans,

SPARTAN was the official codename used for the ORION project.


I stand corrected.


Although, now I remembered that may have been retconned with Halseys Journal. The Flood directly states that the purpose of the program was to develop supersoldiers codenamed SPARTANS, but now I remember that Halsey's journal implies that Halsey came up with the name herself.

  • 12.07.2010 9:00 PM PDT
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Everybody loves Grunts!

I haven't read the journal because I've heard it makes more holes than it patches up. It's easier to go with long-established canon instead of scrambling to set your mind to retconned facts that aren't super-important to the overall story.

  • 12.07.2010 9:06 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Gruntpacolypto
I haven't read the journal because I've heard it makes more holes than it patches up. It's easier to go with long-established canon instead of scrambling to set your mind to retconned facts that aren't super-important to the overall story.

I've read the journal, and TBH it patched some small holes up but otherwise was pretty trivial.

In any case, the Spartan I Program was originally established as the ORION project, and was only later redubbed the Spartan I program when the CMA was rebooted. Hence, when people talk about ORION participants, they're rarely referred to as Spartans. Therefore, you can't really call them official Spartans. This is confirmed by Halsey in her journal.

All of this is just a long-winded way to say that even if they were regarded as "official" Spartans, the Spartan Is still would not be applicable for ONI directive 930, as that was made specifically for Spartan IIs when they were publicized for morale.

  • 12.07.2010 9:19 PM PDT


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Johnson was a Spartan I, that phrase only applies to later iterations of the Spartan program.

  • 12.07.2010 9:37 PM PDT
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In any case, the Spartan I Program was originally established as the ORION project, and was only later redubbed the Spartan I program when the CMA was rebooted


Except The Flood specifically says the program was established to create supsoldiers codenamed spartans.

  • 12.07.2010 9:46 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: opogjijijp

In any case, the Spartan I Program was originally established as the ORION project, and was only later redubbed the Spartan I program when the CMA was rebooted


Except The Flood specifically says the program was established to create supsoldiers codenamed spartans.

Orion was started in the 23rd century, and in 2491 it was relaunched when UNSC and ONI took over CMA and dubbed the program Spartan I. Chronologically, there's nothing wrong with what I said. Even then, you don't hear everyone referring to the Spartan Is as Spartans, that is reserved for Spartan IIs and limited SP-IIIs.

Again, we're going off-topic, as the Spartan Is and IIIs are still not applicable for the "Spartans never die" directive. In fact, Johnson was one of the fallen at the memorial at the end of Halo 3, so that solves the OP's question.

  • 12.07.2010 10:44 PM PDT

As only John-117 witnessed his death and he himself is MIA wouldn't johnson also be listed as missing in action as no one can confirm he was KIA or still alive. But on the case of Orion members their deaths probably wouldn't be made public anyway as they were special forces who's existence was known to only a few.

  • 12.08.2010 9:38 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: opogjijijp
Posted by: Gruntpacolypto

Posted by: opogjijijp
Spartan Is were not official Spartans,

SPARTAN was the official codename used for the ORION project.


I stand corrected.


Although, now I remembered that may have been retconned with Halseys Journal. The Flood directly states that the purpose of the program was to develop supersoldiers codenamed SPARTANS, but now I remember that Halsey's journal implies that Halsey came up with the name herself.
IIRC, SPARTAN only became the name for the ORION programme after Halsey decided she preferred SPARTAN-II to ORION Generation II.

I don't think that ORION was ever officially called SPARTAN, it was just slang after S-II went online.

To the guy talking about S-III - that thought is only true of Noble and any other S-III teams we don't know about. However, it is loosely implied (ASWR ViDoc) that it was Carter's influence that secured Noble their MJOLNIR.
Mainline S-IIIs never officially existed, there would have been no mission roster to list them as MIA on.
As Kurt said, "[You never heard of Operation PROMETHEUS] because it was successful."

  • 12.08.2010 9:47 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

No. Johnson was a Spartan I and the listed MIA only applies to class II and III Spartans.

Since Project ORION was shutdown, almost nobody knows that Johnson is a Spartan, so he would be listed as KIA in the regular Marine rooster.

  • 12.08.2010 9:59 AM PDT
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IIRC, SPARTAN only became the name for the ORION programme after Halsey decided she preferred SPARTAN-II to ORION Generation II.

I don't think that ORION was ever officially called SPARTAN, it was just slang after S-II went online.


In order to deal with increasing civil turmoil the Colonial Military Administration had secretly launched Project ORION back in 2491. The purpose of the program was to develop super soldiers codenamed "Spartans," who would receive special training and physical augmentation.

The Initial effort was successful, and in 2517 a new group of Spartans , the II-series, had been selected as the new generation of supersoldier.


But whatever. It's a silly argument that is almost entirely irrelevant to the thread. Either way, it's almost certain that Johnson was listed as KIA, regardless of when the Spartan Is began being called Spartan Is/

[Edited on 12.08.2010 10:50 AM PST]

  • 12.08.2010 10:14 AM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Mr Owen L
As only John-117 witnessed his death and he himself is MIA wouldn't johnson also be listed as missing in action as no one can confirm he was KIA or still alive. But on the case of Orion members their deaths probably wouldn't be made public anyway as they were special forces who's existence was known to only a few.

Thel 'Vadam saw him die...

  • 12.08.2010 4:49 PM PDT

~GR4YH4MM3R~

Posted by: Gruntpacolypto
I haven't read the journal because I've heard it makes more holes than it patches up. It's easier to go with long-established canon instead of scrambling to set your mind to retconned facts that aren't super-important to the overall story.


I actually felt that it mended a good chunk of the discrepancies between Fall of Reach and Halo Reach.

To OP: by this time, everything that matters has been said by everyone else.

  • 12.08.2010 7:08 PM PDT

they respawn dude.

  • 12.08.2010 7:15 PM PDT

I wasn't aware you could play as a spartan-I

*Looks at Halo 3 ODST firefight*

-blam!-

  • 12.09.2010 6:14 AM PDT

Space. The Final Frontier. These are the voyages of Murphy's Laws on the StarShip Enterprise

ODST firefight =/= spartan 1's, unless they've rebooted it in a later generation

The gathering storm

  • 12.09.2010 9:47 AM PDT