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This topic has moved here: Subject: how are brutes stronger than elites?
  • Subject: how are brutes stronger than elites?
Subject: how are brutes stronger than elites?

Giggity Giggity Goo - Quagmire

Just compare a gorilla's strength to a normal human's strength, there is your answer.

  • 12.21.2010 7:02 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Alfdog
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Alfdog
Well bungie did say that was the case for the downsize.

And that changes things how? They have integrated it into canon by having an entire booklet explaining these things. The Encyclopaedia also has the same figures; years after those 2 games.

Posted by: Alfdog
And in halo CE they are 8'6". Read the game manual.

Yeah. Also in Halo CE, Johnson was attacked by an infection form as seen in the cutscene but was apparently immune (Explaining his sudden appearance in Halo 2). That was retconned, so has the Elites height. Bungie changed it and integrated it into canon; same with Johnson's Flood immunity.

Well that's just the way I see it. And even the downsized Elites could have a Brute anyhow.

Not sure if you are attempting persuasion here. Something that is 7'2" trying to kill something that is nearly 4 times its own weight and at least a full foot taller would be troublesome. I am seriously doubtful as to whether an Elite would pull it off. People often say that Elites are faster. Master Chief in First Strike makes a note of how the shadows in that temple (Brutes) moved too fast to be Elites.

Do you think that you would be able to take down an Olympic Body-builder? That is almost the comparison being made here.


YOu know what, bungie have changed the hieght of Elites so much it's stupid. And 7'2" is pathetic for an Elite, there are a even small amount of humans that are taller than THAT. And about Brutes being faster, that is the only thing that says that about Brutes. The writer must of been on cracl when writing that, it just seems so dumb that a Brute is faster than an Elite and remember that in some cases, game canon overides book canon.

  • 12.22.2010 10:19 AM PDT


Posted by: no name12222235
Elites are very fast and smart fighters, like say Jet Lee, while brutes are extroadinarily strong like a football player. Lee wins based on his intillect and fighting skills not his strength.


That's like how I see it. Elites are Muhammed Ali, and Brutes are bigger bar brawlers. I think I got my on the king of the ring eh?

  • 12.22.2010 10:22 AM PDT

I think that's the game's interpretation.

  • 12.22.2010 10:22 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Alfdog
You know what, bungie have changed the hieght of Elites so much it's stupid.

That does not prove your point, only that both figures have as much weight as each other, and they have only changed it once. CE onto H2/3.

Posted by: Alfdog
And 7'2" is pathetic for an Elite, there are a even small amount of humans that are taller than THAT.

I see where this is going; that was quite transparent. What has this got to do with Humans? Humans are irrelevant as a factor in determining the height of Elites. Please leave superiority/inferiority complexes out of this.

Posted by: Alfdog
And about Brutes being faster, that is the only thing that says that about Brutes.

Yeah, your right. It is the only time where the speed of a Brute and Elite is compared by a third party, i.e. Master Chief. In that first encounter, the Brute is deemed to be faster. Master Chief has fought plenty of Elites to be considered above naivety. It is funny, because if it were the other way around; if it were the first time an Elite was fought and considered faster, I get the impression that you would not hesitate to use that in your defence. Despite the apparent fallacy that you claim to exist in it, you would use it.

The final chapter of First Strike has the Prophet of Truth paraphrase the Master Chiefs exact same thoughts about the Brutes when he looked at Tartarus. So it is not the only time.

Posted by: Alfdog
The writer must of been on crack when writing that, it just seems so dumb that a Brute is faster than an Elite

Why does it sound dumb? Because you do not like it? That is not a very good reason. Seems like you merely want that to be true. It does not sound dumb. They evolved on a planet with twice as much gravity as Sangheilios. It is perfectly believable.

Posted by: Alfdog
and remember that in some cases, game canon overides book canon.

And there is nothing in game canon which suggests anything with respect to this. Gameplay is irrelevant. See Hylebos' post for reasons why.

You are evidently bias here. You have only retorted with personal belief and want, and Ad Hominem against the author.

  • 12.22.2010 11:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: IListen2No1isme

Posted by: Spartan999
Posted by: IListen2No1isme
elites are tougher in the games and aparrently the books are pretty much non-cannon if the games are different. also in the first strike when he fought a brute in the actual games the brutes wernt introduced yet as a fightable enemy so it was still concept.
There is a difference between game story and gameplay. Gameplay mechanics should never be counted as canon. For example, small caliber bullets supposedly bounce right off of MJOLNIR, even without shields. This is obviously not the case in the games.


they tend to contradict each other so bungie announced that games were cannon over books


Supposedly storywise yes, but gameplay doesn't count.

  • 12.22.2010 11:24 AM PDT

im not troll'n
crazy capers
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I can solve all of this Hunters come along and are sick of this argument and kill all the brutes and elites (hunters around 10 ft tall and have a fuelrod cannon for an arm and the other is an impenatrable sheild everyone should know this already)

  • 12.22.2010 11:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: WEE MAN MJJC
why is everyone saying this? The elites are clearly stronger and taller in the games anyway. the brutes are a joke to fight and theyre just basically bullet sponges for the rest of the covenant. even if they did have shields, elites imo would still win in a hand to hand fight.


A brutes forearm is about as thick as the elites neck.

That is how.

  • 12.22.2010 11:57 AM PDT
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UWG Great group, you should check it out.

BungieHUB


Posted by: hadlermaster
Posted by: The Highwayman48

Posted by: hadlermaster
Well, Brutes are pretty deadly in the books..

If I heard correctly, a Brute almost kills John in a hand to hand fight.

You shouldn't try to use the games to determine this kind of stuff.
You are correct, in the books a brute almost kills John.

He should use the games to determine this stuff, because the games are actual cannon. Not the books.

I guess I should have said that you shouldn't use gameplay for that.

The books are canon.
I agree that gameplay is nowhere close to canon, but Bungie has stated that the games are canon, and not other Halo media.

I do tend to go by what's in the books, but when in arguements of what is "correct" I go with the games.

  • 12.22.2010 12:52 PM PDT
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UWG Great group, you should check it out.

BungieHUB


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: IListen2No1isme

Posted by: Spartan999
Posted by: IListen2No1isme
elites are tougher in the games and aparrently the books are pretty much non-cannon if the games are different. also in the first strike when he fought a brute in the actual games the brutes wernt introduced yet as a fightable enemy so it was still concept.
There is a difference between game story and gameplay. Gameplay mechanics should never be counted as canon. For example, small caliber bullets supposedly bounce right off of MJOLNIR, even without shields. This is obviously not the case in the games.


they tend to contradict each other so bungie announced that games were cannon over books


Supposedly storywise yes, but gameplay doesn't count.
Grey is right.

  • 12.22.2010 12:54 PM PDT

Hell in a basket, Your worst nightmare, Everything you fear and hate, helluva Halo spartan!

I agree. The Elites kick the Brutes to the ground when it comes to anything. They are obviously the superior LifeForm

  • 12.22.2010 3:21 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Alfdog
You know what, bungie have changed the hieght of Elites so much it's stupid.

That does not prove your point, only that both figures have as much weight as each other, and they have only changed it once. CE onto H2/3.

Posted by: Alfdog
And 7'2" is pathetic for an Elite, there are a even small amount of humans that are taller than THAT.

I see where this is going; that was quite transparent. What has this got to do with Humans? Humans are irrelevant as a factor in determining the height of Elites. Please leave superiority/inferiority complexes out of this.

Posted by: Alfdog
And about Brutes being faster, that is the only thing that says that about Brutes.

Yeah, your right. It is the only time where the speed of a Brute and Elite is compared by a third party, i.e. Master Chief. In that first encounter, the Brute is deemed to be faster. Master Chief has fought plenty of Elites to be considered above naivety. It is funny, because if it were the other way around; if it were the first time an Elite was fought and considered faster, I get the impression that you would not hesitate to use that in your defence. Despite the apparent fallacy that you claim to exist in it, you would use it.

The final chapter of First Strike has the Prophet of Truth paraphrase the Master Chiefs exact same thoughts about the Brutes when he looked at Tartarus. So it is not the only time.

Posted by: Alfdog
The writer must of been on crack when writing that, it just seems so dumb that a Brute is faster than an Elite

Why does it sound dumb? Because you do not like it? That is not a very good reason. Seems like you merely want that to be true. It does not sound dumb. They evolved on a planet with twice as much gravity as Sangheilios. It is perfectly believable.

Posted by: Alfdog
and remember that in some cases, game canon overides book canon.

And there is nothing in game canon which suggests anything with respect to this. Gameplay is irrelevant. See Hylebos' post for reasons why.

You are evidently bias here. You have only retorted with personal belief and want, and Ad Hominem against the author.


But do see how people would think that brutes being faster than elites is strange? There is a deleted cutscene of Arbiter beating up a bunch Iof brutes too.

  • 12.22.2010 4:23 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Alfdog
But do you see how people would think that brutes being faster than elites is strange?

Yes. However, Humans are smaller than Elites yet are not faster. In the same way, you could apply that between Brutes and Elites. It is not impossible to imagine because the same parallel exists between Humans and Elites already.

Posted by: Alfdog
There is a deleted cutscene of Arbiter beating up a bunch of brutes too.

Yeah, I remember seeing that. It throws a wrench in the works. Why was it deleted though?

Anyway, despite being physically inferior to Brutes and sharing the same level of technology as Brutes during the schism, the Elites still survived and won. They are definitely more intuitive and intelligent than the Brutes.

  • 12.22.2010 5:00 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Alfdog
But do you see how people would think that brutes being faster than elites is strange?

Yes. However, Humans are smaller than Elites yet are not faster. In the same way, you could apply that between Brutes and Elites. It is not impossible to imagine because the same parallel exists between Humans and Elites already.

Posted by: Alfdog
There is a deleted cutscene of Arbiter beating up a bunch of brutes too.

Yeah, I remember seeing that. It throws a wrench in the works. Why was it deleted though?

Anyway, despite being physically inferior to Brutes and sharing the same level of technology as Brutes during the schism, the Elites still survived and won. They are definitely more intuitive and intelligent than the Brutes.


I think Bungie say in the video it was something they wanted to add but they didn't have enough time, so they allowed you to fight it out yourself. I would have rather had the cutscene but what can you do eh? And I use the human and Elite thing so it was relatable and to so that if bungie were to go with elite being 7'2" it would be silly because Elites are meant to tower over humans and even Spartans like the brutes.

  • 12.24.2010 7:39 AM PDT
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Well, it is true that brutes are stronger than elites.
Because they can take alot with their thick skin, but in
a fight, the Elite would win cuz they are just really good
at fighting, and faster, and smarter.

  • 12.24.2010 7:57 AM PDT

Never say you're bored. Never say you're satisfied with the world. Never stop doubting or questioning things. Always wonder. Always think. But always take time to drop your guard, you don't have to be smart all the time.


Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
A Brute killed a Spartan II and another nearly ripped MC apart.


That was because of a grenade launcher (brute shot)

  • 12.24.2010 7:59 AM PDT

Where did it say elites were 7'2"? That would make them only 2 inches taller than a spartan, which is obviously not the case.

  • 12.24.2010 8:10 AM PDT

Halo is one of the most important part of my life.

so you are taller than a gorila... does that make you stronger? Do you think you can beat it on hand to hand?
Gezz..

  • 12.24.2010 8:12 AM PDT
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We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand and of overwhelming force on the other.

Elites:
Smart
Tactical
Fast
Brave

Brutes:
Dumb
No Tactics
Fast
Too Brave

Elites > Brutes

Reasoning: Intelligence/Tactics/Not too Brave

  • 12.24.2010 8:33 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: the n00b pwner
Where did it say elites were 7'2"? That would make them only 2 inches taller than a spartan, which is obviously not the case.

The Bestiarium and the Encyclopaedia.

  • 12.24.2010 8:34 AM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: the n00b pwner
Where did it say elites were 7'2"? That would make them only 2 inches taller than a spartan, which is obviously not the case.

The Bestiarium and the Encyclopaedia.


The encyclopedia says 7'4" and Bestiarium says 8'6". In reach it is much closer to the 8'6".

  • 12.24.2010 8:53 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: the n00b pwner
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: the n00b pwner
Where did it say elites were 7'2"? That would make them only 2 inches taller than a spartan, which is obviously not the case.

The Bestiarium and the Encyclopaedia.

The encyclopedia says 7'4" and Bestiarium says 8'6". In reach it is much closer to the 8'6".

Bottom left hand corner.

  • 12.24.2010 9:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: the n00b pwner
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: the n00b pwner
Where did it say elites were 7'2"? That would make them only 2 inches taller than a spartan, which is obviously not the case.

The Bestiarium and the Encyclopaedia.

The encyclopedia says 7'4" and Bestiarium says 8'6". In reach it is much closer to the 8'6".

Bottom left hand corner.


Remember that in reach you aren't a SII, so they seem larger

  • 12.24.2010 9:47 AM PDT