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  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Don't pretend that if some higher power came along and herded you into a pen and starting slaughtering you that you'd just think, "Hey, it's ok, they are superior after all".[/quote]

Here's where I, and probably most others, will depart. Even supposing that it is a purely selfish desire, and that it is unnecessary because of scientific advances, I do not view the death of animals as a pain that needs to be taken into account when making moral decisions. My reasoning is not that they don't feel pain, because they do, and as such it is wrong to torture them, but rather that death for animals is a complete end of their existence, and that my pleasure in eating their flesh is greater than the minimized amount of pain that is caused in killing them.


You've actually answered to the meaning of the OP, what I was looking for.

What your saying, is that the joy of eating them is greater for you, than the suffering they are caused.

Although I disagree, I think it is completely valid and that it is a fair point.

But, who are we to decide this?

  • 12.24.2010 6:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Don't pretend that if some higher power came along and herded you into a pen and starting slaughtering you that you'd just think, "Hey, it's ok, they are superior after all".[/quote]

Here's where I, and probably most others, will depart. Even supposing that it is a purely selfish desire, and that it is unnecessary because of scientific advances, I do not view the death of animals as a pain that needs to be taken into account when making moral decisions. My reasoning is not that they don't feel pain, because they do, and as such it is wrong to torture them, but rather that death for animals is a complete end of their existence, and that my pleasure in eating their flesh is greater than the minimized amount of pain that is caused in killing them.


You've actually answered to the meaning of the OP, what I was looking for.

What your saying, is that the joy of eating them is greater for you, than the suffering they are caused.

Although I disagree, I think it is completely valid and that it is a fair point.

But, who are we to decide this?



Um...we are apex predators..so that's who we are to decide that.

  • 12.24.2010 6:34 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!

  • 12.24.2010 6:35 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Don't pretend that if some higher power came along and herded you into a pen and starting slaughtering you that you'd just think, "Hey, it's ok, they are superior after all".[/quote]

Here's where I, and probably most others, will depart. Even supposing that it is a purely selfish desire, and that it is unnecessary because of scientific advances, I do not view the death of animals as a pain that needs to be taken into account when making moral decisions. My reasoning is not that they don't feel pain, because they do, and as such it is wrong to torture them, but rather that death for animals is a complete end of their existence, and that my pleasure in eating their flesh is greater than the minimized amount of pain that is caused in killing them.


You've actually answered to the meaning of the OP, what I was looking for.

What your saying, is that the joy of eating them is greater for you, than the suffering they are caused.

Although I disagree, I think it is completely valid and that it is a fair point.

But, who are we to decide this?



Human beings? Questions like this are the very purpose of philosophy. It's basically the objective of human history to try and figure this stuff out.

  • 12.24.2010 6:36 PM PDT

The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.

~Joseph Campbell


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Don't pretend that if some higher power came along and herded you into a pen and starting slaughtering you that you'd just think, "Hey, it's ok, they are superior after all".[/quote]

Here's where I, and probably most others, will depart. Even supposing that it is a purely selfish desire, and that it is unnecessary because of scientific advances, I do not view the death of animals as a pain that needs to be taken into account when making moral decisions. My reasoning is not that they don't feel pain, because they do, and as such it is wrong to torture them, but rather that death for animals is a complete end of their existence, and that my pleasure in eating their flesh is greater than the minimized amount of pain that is caused in killing them.


You've actually answered to the meaning of the OP, what I was looking for.

What your saying, is that the joy of eating them is greater for you, than the suffering they are caused.

Although I disagree, I think it is completely valid and that it is a fair point.

But, who are we to decide this?



Exactly. If I were attacked and eaten by a lion, I wouldn't blame the lion for being hungry. Just like I don't blame humans for eating other animals.

  • 12.24.2010 6:35 PM PDT

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!
I kill animals for food....

  • 12.24.2010 6:36 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Don't pretend that if some higher power came along and herded you into a pen and starting slaughtering you that you'd just think, "Hey, it's ok, they are superior after all".[/quote]

Here's where I, and probably most others, will depart. Even supposing that it is a purely selfish desire, and that it is unnecessary because of scientific advances, I do not view the death of animals as a pain that needs to be taken into account when making moral decisions. My reasoning is not that they don't feel pain, because they do, and as such it is wrong to torture them, but rather that death for animals is a complete end of their existence, and that my pleasure in eating their flesh is greater than the minimized amount of pain that is caused in killing them.


You've actually answered to the meaning of the OP, what I was looking for.

What your saying, is that the joy of eating them is greater for you, than the suffering they are caused.

Although I disagree, I think it is completely valid and that it is a fair point.

But, who are we to decide this?



Um...we are apex predators..so that's who we are to decide that.


By the rules of anarchy, not the rules of morality. It's wrong to decide whether something lives or dies.

  • 12.24.2010 6:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!


NO. Your point was that it wasn't for survival. No farmer is going there killing all their cows/chickens with a sadistic grin.

Eating meat is enjoyment to many people, ENJOYMENT. Look that up and then look up LUST. You can't tell me they are the same.

Eating meat for food is that, eating meat for lust is because someone gets a kick-in-the-pants from eating meat.

  • 12.24.2010 6:37 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: DynastyOfShinho
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!
I kill animals for food....


You kill them because they taste nice, not because you need to eat them. Therefore, it's lust.

  • 12.24.2010 6:37 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!


NO. Your point was that it wasn't for survival. No farmer is going there killing all their cows/chickens with a sadistic grin.

Eating meat is enjoyment to many people, ENJOYMENT. Look that up and then look up LUST. You can't tell me they are the same.

Eating meat for food is that, eating meat for lust is because someone gets a kick-in-the-pants from eating meat.


Don't twist the meaning, in this context, it's the same.

  • 12.24.2010 6:38 PM PDT

*scratches nuts*

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Don't pretend that if some higher power came along and herded you into a pen and starting slaughtering you that you'd just think, "Hey, it's ok, they are superior after all".[/quote]

Here's where I, and probably most others, will depart. Even supposing that it is a purely selfish desire, and that it is unnecessary because of scientific advances, I do not view the death of animals as a pain that needs to be taken into account when making moral decisions. My reasoning is not that they don't feel pain, because they do, and as such it is wrong to torture them, but rather that death for animals is a complete end of their existence, and that my pleasure in eating their flesh is greater than the minimized amount of pain that is caused in killing them.


You've actually answered to the meaning of the OP, what I was looking for.

What your saying, is that the joy of eating them is greater for you, than the suffering they are caused.

Although I disagree, I think it is completely valid and that it is a fair point.

But, who are we to decide this?



Um...we are apex predators..so that's who we are to decide that.


By the rules of anarchy, not the rules of morality. It's wrong to decide whether something lives or dies.
You're bringing morals into a survival argument. There is no right or wrong when your life is on the line.

  • 12.24.2010 6:38 PM PDT

Frank Turner:
But I was raised in Middle-England, not in Nashville Tennesse; and the only person in my car is me.


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: TheCommanded
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to.
Because your canine teeth and incisors were built around chewing plants.

I'm having steak tonight. Gonna be tasty.


Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws

Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue
Herbivores: perspire through skin pores
Humans: perspire through skin pores

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Based on a chart by A.D. Andrews, Fit Food for Men, (Chicago: American Hygiene Society, 1970)


No, our teeth are not designed for eating meat, they can barely chew through cooked meat, and if we were carnivorous, they should be able to tear through it raw, with ease, like other carnivores.
Or we were made equipped to eat both meat and vegetables. Ooh, lucky us eh!

  • 12.24.2010 6:38 PM PDT
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Stop pushing YOUR morals on everyone else, because they are WRONG to everyone else EXCEPT for you.

It's wrong to think that your OPINION is fact.

And you need to look up the definition of LUST.

  • 12.24.2010 6:39 PM PDT

The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.

~Joseph Campbell

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!

You go from "we aren't designed to," to "it isn't morally straight," to "we do it for lust."

Jeez, stick to a damn argument.

  • 12.24.2010 6:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!


NO. Your point was that it wasn't for survival. No farmer is going there killing all their cows/chickens with a sadistic grin.

Eating meat is enjoyment to many people, ENJOYMENT. Look that up and then look up LUST. You can't tell me they are the same.

Eating meat for food is that, eating meat for lust is because someone gets a kick-in-the-pants from eating meat.


Don't twist the meaning, in this context, it's the same.



Look up the definition of LUST before YOU tell ME that I;m twisting the context. I know what lust is. Lust is not what farmers do when they kill their stock animals, lust is not what people feel when eating meat,

  • 12.24.2010 6:40 PM PDT

The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.

~Joseph Campbell


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: DynastyOfShinho
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!
I kill animals for food....


You kill them because they taste nice, not because you need to eat them. Therefore, it's lust.


It's the easiest way to get the nutrients AND it's population control.

  • 12.24.2010 6:41 PM PDT

*scratches nuts*

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: DynastyOfShinho
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!
I kill animals for food....


You kill them because they taste nice, not because you need to eat them. Therefore, it's lust.
I kill them because if I don't eat, I die. There is no lust there, the taste of the meat is an added bonus.

  • 12.24.2010 6:42 PM PDT

I eat them because I want to. Same reason I eat other forms of life. (Vegetation)

It's that simple. In the grand scheme of life it doesn't matter if something dies alone, terrified, or in a horrible way. Because then it's dead, and it no longer feels, and that means in itself that it doesn't matter if it ever felt love, or fear, or pain in it's life.

I am a cold, heartless monster in a way. In the grand scheme of things this doesn't matter either. I don't care how a living creature feels. If if dies, and it's edible then I will enjoy its meat. We are multi-cell organisms, plants, and animals a like. The only difference is that we feel pain, when plants don't, but again... I don't care.

There, OP. Do you like my answer?

  • 12.24.2010 6:42 PM PDT

'Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, Υἱὲ τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἐλέησόν με τὸν ἁμαρτωλόν.'

Actually, meat is the easiest way we can get protein.

  • 12.24.2010 6:43 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!


NO. Your point was that it wasn't for survival. No farmer is going there killing all their cows/chickens with a sadistic grin.

Eating meat is enjoyment to many people, ENJOYMENT. Look that up and then look up LUST. You can't tell me they are the same.

Eating meat for food is that, eating meat for lust is because someone gets a kick-in-the-pants from eating meat.


Don't twist the meaning, in this context, it's the same.



Look up the definition of LUST before YOU tell ME that I;m twisting the context. I know what lust is. Lust is not what farmers do when they kill their stock animals, lust is not what people feel when eating meat,


You completely missed the point. Doing it for lust/doing it for enjoyment. Same thing, when you compare it to morals.

  • 12.24.2010 6:43 PM PDT

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: DynastyOfShinho
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!
I kill animals for food....


You kill them because they taste nice, not because you need to eat them. Therefore, it's lust.
I NEED food. Does it have to be meat? No but I'd rather eat meat because I am against killing plants because they are living! I hold them more sacred than animals because the produce my air!

  • 12.24.2010 6:43 PM PDT

óÓÒò Snow Leopard and Fox Hybrid óÓÒò

Are we still feeding this troll?

  • 12.24.2010 6:45 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: flippedoutcookie
I eat them because I want to. Same reason I eat other forms of life. (Vegetation)

It's that simple. In the grand scheme of life it doesn't matter if something dies alone, terrified, or in a horrible way. Because then it's dead, and it no longer feels, and that means in itself that it doesn't matter if it ever felt love, or fear, or pain in it's life.

I am a cold, heartless monster in a way. In the grand scheme of things this doesn't matter either. I don't care how a living creature feels. If if dies, and it's edible then I will enjoy its meat. We are multi-cell organisms, plants, and animals a like. The only difference is that we feel pain, when plants don't, but again... I don't care.

There, OP. Do you like my answer?


Well nothing matters in the grand scheme of things.

But if everyone thought that way, we'd never have any good. It's a pointless way of thinking.

But I do like your answer, you basically agree with me, but say it doesn't matter anyway!

  • 12.24.2010 6:45 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: General Noobus
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: DynastyOfShinho
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00
Killing animals for food and killing animals for lust are two different things. If you , sir, fail to see that you are wrong in the head.


BUT MY POINT IS THAT IT'S NOT FOR FOOD AND THAT IT IS FOR LUST!
I kill animals for food....


You kill them because they taste nice, not because you need to eat them. Therefore, it's lust.
I kill them because if I don't eat, I die. There is no lust there, the taste of the meat is an added bonus.


No, you don't die.

  • 12.24.2010 6:46 PM PDT