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  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.

  • 12.24.2010 7:37 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gman5434
Let me sum up the current argument of the OP in this thread:

We don't have to eat meat to survive, although we are still omnivores we don't need to eat meat and anyone that chooses to eat meat is doing so because he or she 'lusts' for it. The OP believes that killing animals for the purpose of eating them is wrong.

But that is in fact his subjective view and is not any better than someone that believes that not eating meat is morally wrong. The fact of the matter is this argument is stupid since the OP doesn't understand the fact that his views on whether eating meat is right or wrong is completely subjective and therefore is not better than anyone elses'.

But one could use other definitions of the words 'right' or 'wrong' in a more objective manner (rather than from a moral view) that is correct or incorrect. We are in fact omnivores (this is an irrefutable fact) and thus are eating meat and plants is correct and is thus right.


No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.


It's not wrong to N4zis. So once again wrong/right is SUBJECTIVE.


I just said it's obviously subjective, and I just also said that whether it's subjective or not, it is wrong, I don't care who thinks so and how opinion based it is.

  • 12.24.2010 7:37 PM PDT
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I went outside today. The graphics were AMAZING. The gameplay WASN"T.

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Posted by: WyIdfyre
Why do we still have tailbones?
Why do human males have nipples?

Tailbones are vestigial organs. I'm sure you know that.

Human males have nipples because every mammal does. It probably has something to do with the fact that we develop as females then develop into a male if we are going too.

  • 12.24.2010 7:38 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


But you just know it's wrong though. Whether Adolf thought so or not.

  • 12.24.2010 7:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


True, you could always argue that if it wasn't for the Holocaust there would be no US INterstate system (modeled off the Autobahn used to transport German militray equipment), less knowledge on effects of freezing/burning of human flesh (cruel n4zi doctor expereiments) or twin research(see previous) Population control as well....

MOrals, wrong/right is SUBJECTIVE.

  • 12.24.2010 7:39 PM PDT

Fortune favors the Bold

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


But you just know it's wrong though. Whether Adolf thought so or not.

To us it is, but to another person it can be perfectly right. That is just what they believe in and those are that person's morals.

  • 12.24.2010 7:40 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


True, you could always argue that if it wasn't for the Holocaust there would be no US INterstate system (modeled off the Autobahn used to transport German militray equipment), less knowledge on effects of freezing/burning of human flesh (cruel n4zi doctor expereiments) or twin research(see previous) Population control as well....

MOrals, wrong/right is SUBJECTIVE.


Yeah, but you know it's wrong though.

  • 12.24.2010 7:40 PM PDT

I'd like to be half-man half-tree in an octopus' garden in the shade.

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


But you just know it's wrong though. Whether Adolf thought so or not.

The morals of most humans say that what Hitler did was wrong, but that doesn't mean it's factually morally wrong. Also, Godwins law, lol.

  • 12.24.2010 7:40 PM PDT
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God?

Religion does not provide a sense of morality, but an obedience to authority.

Join Secular Sevens - A group for atheists, free thinkers, skeptics or theists looking for a good debate.

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


But you just know it's wrong though. Whether Adolf thought so or not.

Right and wrong are subjective. You cannot say that your view on whether something is right is better than someone elses' that is EXTREMELY arrogant.

Adolf thought he was right and just and many that followed him did as well since that was their subjective view. Just like some thought it was wrong. Neither can be correct or incorrect, both views are subjective.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 7:42 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 7:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


True, you could always argue that if it wasn't for the Holocaust there would be no US INterstate system (modeled off the Autobahn used to transport German militray equipment), less knowledge on effects of freezing/burning of human flesh (cruel n4zi doctor expereiments) or twin research(see previous) Population control as well....

MOrals, wrong/right is SUBJECTIVE.


Yeah, but you know it's wrong though.


Wrong in the sense of people died, right in the sense of technology gained. Wrong for me, NOT WRONG FOR N4ZIS.

Wrong/right is SUBJECTIVE, subjective, subjective! What is wrong for 99% of the world, doesn't 1) make it wrong for the rest 2) doesn't make it wrong (99% could be wrong)

  • 12.24.2010 7:42 PM PDT

Fortune favors the Bold

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


True, you could always argue that if it wasn't for the Holocaust there would be no US INterstate system (modeled off the Autobahn used to transport German militray equipment), less knowledge on effects of freezing/burning of human flesh (cruel n4zi doctor expereiments) or twin research(see previous) Population control as well....

MOrals, wrong/right is SUBJECTIVE.


Yeah, but you know it's wrong though.

no, no, I don't know anything. I can say I believe it to be wrong, but I can never say that I know it to be wrong

  • 12.24.2010 7:42 PM PDT


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


But you just know it's wrong though. Whether Adolf thought so or not.
You never "know" when something is wrong, you "think" something is wrong.

  • 12.24.2010 7:42 PM PDT


Posted by: shadowknight566
Without meat, our bodies can't function right with a small amount of protein and iron. If we don't have that in our bodies, we die, so we have to eat animals to live. It's natural in the food chain, it's not like we're the only ones who eat animals. We actually make it LESS miserable for animals to die, they die quickly when we need to eat them. Now, when a natural animal predator kills its prey, it's a lot more painful. We are actually doing them a favor, in other words.
OP either you are a troll or you are most stupid person on the flood. Your body needs meat. Learn alittle Science and then come back to talk. Now go run along and play with your PETA friends.

  • 12.24.2010 7:43 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

You guys put too much stress on subjectivity, but maybe some things are just wrong and right, and whether you pretend it's subjective or not, the guy who thought the holocaust was right was wrong.

His opinion is wrong. Opinions can be wrong.

  • 12.24.2010 7:44 PM PDT

Fortune favors the Bold

Posted by: Gibsonsg527

Posted by: shadowknight566
Without meat, our bodies can't function right with a small amount of protein and iron. If we don't have that in our bodies, we die, so we have to eat animals to live. It's natural in the food chain, it's not like we're the only ones who eat animals. We actually make it LESS miserable for animals to die, they die quickly when we need to eat them. Now, when a natural animal predator kills its prey, it's a lot more painful. We are actually doing them a favor, in other words.
OP either you are a troll or you are most stupid person on the flood. Your body needs meat. Learn alittle Science and then come back to talk. Now go run along and play with your PETA friends.

True, your body can live without animals, but your body will be weak. Animal meat has amino acids which are only in animals that your body needs

  • 12.24.2010 7:44 PM PDT
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God?

Religion does not provide a sense of morality, but an obedience to authority.

Join Secular Sevens - A group for atheists, free thinkers, skeptics or theists looking for a good debate.

Posted by: Murcielago00

Wrong in the sense of people died, right in the sense of technology gained. Wrong for me, NOT WRONG FOR N4ZIS.

Wrong/right is SUBJECTIVE, subjective, subjective! What is wrong for 99% of the world, doesn't 1) make it wrong for the rest 2) doesn't make it wrong (99% could be wrong)

This man brings up a great example of how one can view war (e.g. WWII) as 'right'. Let's says that one views that the technology gained through war (wars can spur technological growth and inventions) is greater than the lives lost during the war since the technology gained will forever help future generations and will thus last longer than the temporal lives of the ones that died.

Again the above is a subjective view it isn't any better than someone that values a human over technological gain.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 7:47 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 7:45 PM PDT

.


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
[/quote]

No, I know it's subjective, but I also know that subjective or not, it's still wrong.

Just like you could call the Holocaust subjective, it's still wrong.

It is subjectively wrong, one could very well say that the Holocaust was justifiable by their morals and wasn't wrong. Their moral outlook is no better than another persons'.


But you just know it's wrong though. Whether Adolf thought so or not.


No matter how many people believe something is wrong, no matter how much they believe something is wrong, ultimately, it will never be wrong as the concept of wrong is empty. It does not exist outside our our perception and conception. Ultimately everything is just there, objected. Exactly how that objection is perceived and conceived is subjective and thus it has no one absolute defining form.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 7:47 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 7:45 PM PDT


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Opinions can be wrong.
You have got to be a troll.

  • 12.24.2010 7:45 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Gibsonsg527

Posted by: shadowknight566
Without meat, our bodies can't function right with a small amount of protein and iron. If we don't have that in our bodies, we die, so we have to eat animals to live. It's natural in the food chain, it's not like we're the only ones who eat animals. We actually make it LESS miserable for animals to die, they die quickly when we need to eat them. Now, when a natural animal predator kills its prey, it's a lot more painful. We are actually doing them a favor, in other words.
OP either you are a troll or you are most stupid person on the flood. Your body needs meat. Learn alittle Science and then come back to talk. Now go run along and play with your PETA friends.


Explain to me the vegetarian.

Because, as far as I'm aware, these guys don't eat meat.

  • 12.24.2010 7:45 PM PDT

Fortune favors the Bold

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
You guys put too much stress on subjectivity, but maybe some things are just wrong and right, and whether you pretend it's subjective or not, the guy who thought the holocaust was right was wrong.

His opinion is wrong. Opinions can be wrong.

You continue to think in absolutes and this is the issue. When dealing with morality, there are no absolutes. There is never a "Blank" is wrong, or "blank" is right. There is only I believe that blank is wrong or right, or I think that it is wrong or right

  • 12.24.2010 7:46 PM PDT


Posted by: CB Visco
Posted by: Gibsonsg527

Posted by: shadowknight566
Without meat, our bodies can't function right with a small amount of protein and iron. If we don't have that in our bodies, we die, so we have to eat animals to live. It's natural in the food chain, it's not like we're the only ones who eat animals. We actually make it LESS miserable for animals to die, they die quickly when we need to eat them. Now, when a natural animal predator kills its prey, it's a lot more painful. We are actually doing them a favor, in other words.
OP either you are a troll or you are most stupid person on the flood. Your body needs meat. Learn alittle Science and then come back to talk. Now go run along and play with your PETA friends.

True, your body can live without animals, but your body will be weak. Animal meat has amino acids which are only in animals that your body needs


Which is why most vegans and vegetarians look like they just spent a year in a concentration camp.

  • 12.24.2010 7:46 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: sargeantomeg4

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Opinions can be wrong.
You have got to be a troll.


Think about it. I promise, there is more to it than your definition of opinion. I'm not clever enough to explain it, but it makes sense.

  • 12.24.2010 7:46 PM PDT

I'd like to be half-man half-tree in an octopus' garden in the shade.

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Opinions can be wrong.

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

An subjective opinion cannot be right or wrong.

  • 12.24.2010 7:46 PM PDT

Well, I've been economical with the truth.

its the way the world works, its the food chain and we're up there, does a lion sympathise about eating a zebra.

  • 12.24.2010 7:47 PM PDT