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  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore

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Posted by: Murcielago00

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX


No, but facts are opinions.


Fact: We have canine teeth
Fact: 2+2=4
Fact: Red cars are red
Fact: The sky is opposite the ground
Fact: Water is wet.

Need I list more, or do you relaize that facts are NOT opinions?


All the information this 'fact' consists of is derived from conception and perception, both of which are absolutely subjective as are 'opinions.'

  • 12.24.2010 8:02 PM PDT

I'd like to be half-man half-tree in an octopus' garden in the shade.

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: AngrydoG

I have to stop you there, facts are statements which cannot be proven other wise. For example Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. Some people may think cats are dogs but that is their opinion, not what has been proven.


It all comes down to the question, "Is perception reality?" This can never be proven, ever, therefore nothing can ever be proven.

By that logic, there's no real proof that the animals you say shouldn't be eaten are even real. So why not eat them?

  • 12.24.2010 8:02 PM PDT


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: AngrydoG

I have to stop you there, facts are statements which cannot be proven other wise. For example Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. Some people may think cats are dogs but that is their opinion, not what has been proven.


It all comes down to the question, "Is perception reality?" This can never be proven, ever, therefore nothing can ever be proven.
Math is absolute because we made it. It turns out that math helps prove science true.

  • 12.24.2010 8:02 PM PDT

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: AngrydoG

I have to stop you there, facts are statements which cannot be proven other wise. For example Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. Some people may think cats are dogs but that is their opinion, not what has been proven.


It all comes down to the question, "Is perception reality?" This can never be proven, ever, therefore nothing can ever be proven.

Whoa there, man. This is an argument about eating meat. No need to question the nature of reality.

However:
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
No, but facts are opinions.

The thread should've ended here. To say that, you either are a complete idiot, or all the thinking that you have to go through on a daily basis with questioning whether a red car is red has fried your brain.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 8:09 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 8:03 PM PDT

Fortune favors the Bold

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
You guys call me high and mighty. But you refuse to look far enough to see that "Perception is not necessarily reality".

Because you ignore this, assuming that green is green and etc, then you have all completely missed the point of my argument.

"Guys, 2 + 2 is obviously 4, I'm obviously sane". How do know?

What is your point? Yes you are correct, but if we consider this, then this whole thread is pointless.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 8:03 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 8:03 PM PDT
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God?

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Join Secular Sevens - A group for atheists, free thinkers, skeptics or theists looking for a good debate.

Posted by: TheDemonicBird O

All the information this 'fact' consists of is derived from conception and perception, both of which are absolutely subjective as are 'opinions.'

I respectively disagree:

It is a correct statement that nothing be proven absolutely even facts (mathematics aside). But the difference being is that facts are supported by overwhelming evidence so much so that it would be perverse to deny them. But with opinions which are solely based on ones' subjective view on what they think is right or wrong and not objective evidence.

That is the difference between facts and opinions.


[Edited on 12.24.2010 8:04 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 8:04 PM PDT
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We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand and of overwhelming force on the other.

if this gets 1000k + views I will cri

  • 12.24.2010 8:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: CB Visco
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
You guys call me high and mighty. But you refuse to look far enough to see that "Perception is not necessarily reality".

Because you ignore this, assuming that green is green and etc, then you have all completely missed the point of my argument.

"Guys, 2 + 2 is obviously 4, I'm obviously sane". How do know?

What is your point? Yes you are correct, but if we consider this, then this whole thread is pointless.


Technically, this renders everything pointless.

  • 12.24.2010 8:05 PM PDT

Doesn't matter if I can justify it or not. I'll keep eating meat because I want to.

If you want to stop, then just stop eating it. It's really not hard if you have an ounce or two of willpower.

  • 12.24.2010 8:05 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: CB Visco
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: AngrydoG

I have to stop you there, facts are statements which cannot be proven other wise. For example Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. Some people may think cats are dogs but that is their opinion, not what has been proven.


It all comes down to the question, "Is perception reality?" This can never be proven, ever, therefore nothing can ever be proven.

So you are disproving yourself? So what is the point of this thread?


Well, you have to assume that perception is reality, otherwise you could never function, so, it links to my point that, you can treat an opinion like a fact, if that opinion is overwhelmingly valid. And you have to admit, some opinions are more valid than others (by terms of logic), although this cannot be measured (aside by numbers). This is proven, by when someone agrees with your opinion, it becomes more valid. So if infinite people agreed with your opinion, it would become fact (although there aren't infinite people and that fact doesn't exist).

It actually ties in with the 0.(9) = 1 theory.

It all makes sense, I just hope you guys understand.

  • 12.24.2010 8:05 PM PDT
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God?

Religion does not provide a sense of morality, but an obedience to authority.

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Posted by: tjs0620
Posted by: I Em I Raptor
if this gets 1000k + views I will cri
I second this.

It won't, Christmas will come and people will stop posting.

  • 12.24.2010 8:05 PM PDT

Fortune favors the Bold

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: CB Visco
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: AngrydoG

I have to stop you there, facts are statements which cannot be proven other wise. For example Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. Some people may think cats are dogs but that is their opinion, not what has been proven.


It all comes down to the question, "Is perception reality?" This can never be proven, ever, therefore nothing can ever be proven.

So you are disproving yourself? So what is the point of this thread?


Well, you have to assume that perception is reality, otherwise you could never function, so, it links to my point that, you can treat an opinion like a fact, if that opinion is overwhelmingly valid. And you have to admit, some opinions are more valid than others (by terms of logic), although this cannot be measured (aside by numbers). This is proven, by when someone agrees with your opinion, it becomes more valid. So if infinite people agreed with your opinion, it would become fact (although there aren't infinite people and that fact doesn't exist).

It actually ties in with the 0.(9) = 1 theory.

It all makes sense, I just hope you guys understand.

I never said perception is reality. I only believe it be. Because if I didn't believe it, then I would be pretty bored because I would think that anything I did didn't truly matter since it isn't reality. Thus I believe and I act upon my beliefs.

  • 12.24.2010 8:08 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: CB Visco
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: CB Visco
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: AngrydoG

I have to stop you there, facts are statements which cannot be proven other wise. For example Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. Some people may think cats are dogs but that is their opinion, not what has been proven.


It all comes down to the question, "Is perception reality?" This can never be proven, ever, therefore nothing can ever be proven.

So you are disproving yourself? So what is the point of this thread?


Well, you have to assume that perception is reality, otherwise you could never function, so, it links to my point that, you can treat an opinion like a fact, if that opinion is overwhelmingly valid. And you have to admit, some opinions are more valid than others (by terms of logic), although this cannot be measured (aside by numbers). This is proven, by when someone agrees with your opinion, it becomes more valid. So if infinite people agreed with your opinion, it would become fact (although there aren't infinite people and that fact doesn't exist).

It actually ties in with the 0.(9) = 1 theory.

It all makes sense, I just hope you guys understand.

I never said perception is reality. I only believe it be. Because if I didn't believe it, then I would be pretty bored because I would think that anything I did didn't truly matter since it isn't reality. Thus I believe and I act upon my beliefs.


Yes, the same, but you still are aware that it may not be.

  • 12.24.2010 8:08 PM PDT


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: CB Visco
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: AngrydoG

I have to stop you there, facts are statements which cannot be proven other wise. For example Dogs are dogs. Cats are cats. Some people may think cats are dogs but that is their opinion, not what has been proven.


It all comes down to the question, "Is perception reality?" This can never be proven, ever, therefore nothing can ever be proven.

So you are disproving yourself? So what is the point of this thread?

So if infinite people agreed with your opinion, it would become fact (although there aren't infinite people and that fact doesn't exist).

It actually ties in with the 0.(9) = 1 theory.

It all makes sense, I just hope you guys understand.
I don't agree so your point is garbage

Edit: Plus .999...=1 has nothing to do with this.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 8:09 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 8:09 PM PDT
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God?

Religion does not provide a sense of morality, but an obedience to authority.

Join Secular Sevens - A group for atheists, free thinkers, skeptics or theists looking for a good debate.

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX


Well, you have to assume that perception is reality, otherwise you could never function, so, it links to my point that, you can treat an opinion like a fact, if that opinion is overwhelmingly valid. And you have to admit, some opinions are more valid than others (by terms of logic), although this cannot be measured (aside by numbers). This is proven, by when someone agrees with your opinion, it becomes more valid. So if infinite people agreed with your opinion, it would become fact (although there aren't infinite people and that fact doesn't exist).

It actually ties in with the 0.(9) = 1 theory.

It all makes sense, I just hope you guys understand.

First opinions do NOT become more valid as more accept them. By that logic when it was socially acceptable to have slaves since the majority agreed with that opinion that makes it more valid but the inverse is now true and that makes it less valid. What a second how can something be an absolute truth if it can change like that? It in fact can't, the number of people that view something as right or wrong has no bearing as to whether it is right or wrong. By that logic since most humans eat meat your opinion is invalid.

Furthermore the 0.(9) =1 is not an opinion is it an absolute fact. The only absolute facts can be found in math.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 8:14 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 8:10 PM PDT

Fortune favors the Bold

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: CB Visco
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX

Well, you have to assume that perception is reality, otherwise you could never function, so, it links to my point that, you can treat an opinion like a fact, if that opinion is overwhelmingly valid. And you have to admit, some opinions are more valid than others (by terms of logic), although this cannot be measured (aside by numbers). This is proven, by when someone agrees with your opinion, it becomes more valid. So if infinite people agreed with your opinion, it would become fact (although there aren't infinite people and that fact doesn't exist).

It actually ties in with the 0.(9) = 1 theory.

It all makes sense, I just hope you guys understand.

I never said perception is reality. I only believe it be. Because if I didn't believe it, then I would be pretty bored because I would think that anything I did didn't truly matter since it isn't reality. Thus I believe and I act upon my beliefs.


Yes, the same, but you still are aware that it may not be.

yes, my perception may not be reality. For all I know, I could just be a brain in a tank and making this whole thing up. But the point is, is that I still hold that perception is reality as an opinion, and I still do not consider it fact.

  • 12.24.2010 8:11 PM PDT

-reads through post-

*Eats chicken wing*

Yummm

  • 12.24.2010 8:12 PM PDT

Giggity Giggity Goo - Quagmire


Posted by: I am Dave
I'll repeat myself, we are not designed to eat meat, we are capable of eating cooked meat, but no, it's scientifically accepted that we aren't designed for eating meant.
I'd like to see a source for that.

From an actual scientist, mind you. Not some PETA website.

Yeah actually our digestive system is built for meat, our teeth are designed for meat. We are omnivores. Also we can eat raw meat, although it isn't common anymore...one present common day raw meat is sushi.

  • 12.24.2010 8:13 PM PDT

Gamers don't die, they just go offline.

"...and the fanboys will unite to slay the Call of Duty threat for the greater good of gaming."

Meat kicks ass, its tasty also.

  • 12.24.2010 8:14 PM PDT

.

Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: TheDemonicBird O

All the information this 'fact' consists of is derived from conception and perception, both of which are absolutely subjective as are 'opinions.'

I respectively disagree:

It is a correct statement that nothing be proven absolutely even facts (mathematics aside). But the difference being is that facts are supported by overwhelming evidence so much so that it would be perverse to deny them. But with opinions which are solely based on ones' subjective view on what they think is right or wrong and not objective evidence.

That is the difference between facts and opinions.


You have a right to disagree but that does not stop me from understanding that all that 'evidence' is also derived from conception and perception. It does not stop me from realizing the empty nature of all things we perceive and conceive.

Applying logic to the external world will present you with a great number of evidence of specific 'facts,' but applying logic to truth will only present you with one ultimate, and that is, "there is something here and now, in this instant, objected. That is absolute. If there was not something here and now, in this instant, objected, then perception and conception would cease to exist.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 8:15 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 8:14 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX


Well, you have to assume that perception is reality, otherwise you could never function, so, it links to my point that, you can treat an opinion like a fact, if that opinion is overwhelmingly valid. And you have to admit, some opinions are more valid than others (by terms of logic), although this cannot be measured (aside by numbers). This is proven, by when someone agrees with your opinion, it becomes more valid. So if infinite people agreed with your opinion, it would become fact (although there aren't infinite people and that fact doesn't exist).

It actually ties in with the 0.(9) = 1 theory.

It all makes sense, I just hope you guys understand.

First opinions do NOT become more valid as more accept them. By that logic when it was socially acceptable to have slaves since the majority agreed with that opinion that makes it more valid but the inverse is true and that makes it less valid. What a second how can something be an absolute truth if it can change like that? It in fact can't, the number of people that view something as right or wrong has no validity to whether it is right or wrong. BY that logic since most humans eat meat your opinions is invalid.

Furthermore the 0.(9) =1 is not an opinion is it an absolute fact. The only absolute facts can be found in math.


You've missed the point.

They are more valid as someone accepts them, not valid, never valid, unless infinite people accept them (hence where the maths come in).

The 'proof' that opinions are more valid as people accept them. The meat eater points are more agreed with, so more people find them more valid, even though, they are still just opinions, but people have taken them as fact.

  • 12.24.2010 8:14 PM PDT
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useless

Posted by: Morning Revival
-reads through post-

*Eats chicken wing*

Yummm


According to the current stage of argument, that chicken wing is actually a figment of your imagination. Sorry.

  • 12.24.2010 8:15 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

Have you ever had sushi? Salmon is delicious even when it's not cooked. And most animals don't die alone, but in the hundreds. It's more efficient that way.

  • 12.24.2010 8:15 PM PDT

Posted by: Pathetic Meat
Posted by: Morning Revival
-reads through post-

*Eats chicken wing*

Yummm


According to the current stage of argument, that chicken wing is actually a figment of your imagination. Sorry.
damn good imagination I have then

  • 12.24.2010 8:16 PM PDT