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  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore

I've realised that I've been expelled from my mother's uterus as if being shot from a canon, towards a barn door covered in rusty hooks and old nail files. It's a matter of how you use the intervening time in an intelligent and ironic way, and try not to do anything dastardly to your fellow creatures.

great, this thread is going to get 1000 replies >.<

DAMN IT!!
lol i was the 1000th(?) reply :K

[Edited on 12.25.2010 5:11 AM PST]

  • 12.25.2010 5:10 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Trace007
Anyway, so regardless if I eat meat or not, my argument is that this debate is useless. Morals can't be used as points, so all of the points are useless. The argument is invalid.


It's a debate, it's not expected to change the world.


I never said you were trying to change the world. Stop putting words in my mouth.


It's what you implied. You implied that we can't do anything to change it, so there's no point in talking about it. But there is no point in talking about most things, we just do. And I agree with your point that it's futile to talk about it, to an extent, but like Wyldfyre said, "One step at a time" (Or something like that, but you get the meaning).

But you seem intelligent, so I would like your opinion, and I'm not sure if you've stated whether you personally think it's right or wrong to eat meat for the purpose of satiating our desires?

  • 12.25.2010 5:10 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: nidas leo 117
great, this thread is going to get 1000 replies >.<


You were the 1000th!

  • 12.25.2010 5:11 AM PDT

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: nidas leo 117
great, this thread is going to get 1000 replies >.<


You were the 1000th!
*claps*

  • 12.25.2010 5:11 AM PDT
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"I love the Chosen One (loving him is so much fun!); I love the Chosen One (not as much as ME!); I love the Chosen One (I love him with all my heart!); I love the Chosen One (I love him with my body parts!)..."

Exactly! You have different ideas to those killers, just like I have different ideas to you about eating meat, and music and books and movies and games and clothes and a plethora of things.

Everybdy's different. Everything's subjective. An extreme majority doesn't make something right, just widely accepted as right. Just like an extreme majority of people like Ke$ha,and yet I loathe her. their opinion and my opinion.

  • 12.25.2010 5:12 AM PDT

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Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: WyIdfyre

Posted by: james 101296
Posted by: WyIdfyre

Posted by: james 101296
Except the potential offspring of that plant or fungus... you do eat mushrooms right?

Indeed, but unlike the plants themselves, there is no measurable life within the produce. They do no have any respiration at all, no feeling at all and do not 'evolve' into anything else until physical intervention is involved.

But they do have cellular activity which means it is living. Plus what about potatoes. They sprout out to water even after they are picked which means they are still living

Again, only with intervention. I have jars full of seeds and fruit, nothing died to make them, and they keep for a lot longer. They're not growing or decaying, and won't do until I do anything with them.


This may seem completely off topic, but...do you support stem-cell research?


i support stemcell research but not abbortion if we are going to abort might as well do stemcell research (<<<<<<<<no ones asking you so shut up)

[Edited on 12.25.2010 5:14 AM PST]

  • 12.25.2010 5:12 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Although that's true, we still treat a set of morals as fact (that murdering another human is wrong). Just because it's subjective, doesn't mean it can't be acted upon.

You are saying that anything that isn't pure fact, can't be treated with any seriousness.


You get a group of people, they all have similar morals, they teach those morals to their children, tadaa!, a society!

Just because you and your society find killing others wrong, doesn't mean every human does. How would you explain tribes with human sacrifice?


I get your point. But you'd still say it was a barbaric thing they are doing, and that it's wrong. You'd want to stop it.

  • 12.25.2010 5:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Although that's true, we still treat a set of morals as fact (that murdering another human is wrong). Just because it's subjective, doesn't mean it can't be acted upon.

You are saying that anything that isn't pure fact, can't be treated with any seriousness.


You get a group of people, they all have similar morals, they teach those morals to their children, tadaa!, a society!

Just because you and your society find killing others wrong, doesn't mean every human does. How would you explain tribes with human sacrifice?

I have said this once and I will say this again. This man speaks the truth. The fact of the matter is that we have two sides, one that is saying eating meat is wrong and the other saying that it is right. Both are using right and wrong in moral context which is completely subjective and thus neither side is right or wrong and this argument is rather meaningless.


Although it is true that we don't have to eat meat, it doesn't mean that we aren't designed to eat meat. In fact we are omnivores, we can and have evolved to eat both meat and plants. Whether you choose one over the other is your own discretion and is in no way shape or form above anyone else' decision.

  • 12.25.2010 5:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
I get your point. But you'd still say it was a barbaric thing they are doing, and that it's wrong. You'd want to stop it.

What if I say that it's morally right to kill other people for human sacrifice. There prove me wrong. You cannot prove morals right or wrong, your argument is invalid.

[Edited on 12.25.2010 5:16 AM PST]

  • 12.25.2010 5:16 AM PDT
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"I love the Chosen One (loving him is so much fun!); I love the Chosen One (not as much as ME!); I love the Chosen One (I love him with all my heart!); I love the Chosen One (I love him with my body parts!)..."

Um....are you arguing with yourself?

  • 12.25.2010 5:17 AM PDT

The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.

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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Trace007
Anyway, so regardless if I eat meat or not, my argument is that this debate is useless. Morals can't be used as points, so all of the points are useless. The argument is invalid.


It's a debate, it's not expected to change the world.


I never said you were trying to change the world. Stop putting words in my mouth.


It's what you implied. You implied that we can't do anything to change it, so there's no point in talking about it. But there is no point in talking about most things, we just do. And I agree with your point that it's futile to talk about it, to an extent, but like Wyldfyre said, "One step at a time" (Or something like that, but you get the meaning).

But you seem intelligent, so I would like your opinion, and I'm not sure if you've stated whether you personally think it's right or wrong to eat meat for the purpose of satiating our desires?


I'm not implying that at all. I don't have "the grand scheme of things" in mind.

*points off in distance*

Remember your original post, WAY back there? I had that in mind. You said that you needed advice to stop eating meat. I came into the thread and saw that there was a moral argument about it. I don't see this argument helpful to you at all, so I'm attempting to dissolve it.

Anyway, thanks for the complement, and I do personally enjoy the taste of meat.

  • 12.25.2010 5:19 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Although that's true, we still treat a set of morals as fact (that murdering another human is wrong). Just because it's subjective, doesn't mean it can't be acted upon.

You are saying that anything that isn't pure fact, can't be treated with any seriousness.


You get a group of people, they all have similar morals, they teach those morals to their children, tadaa!, a society!

Just because you and your society find killing others wrong, doesn't mean every human does. How would you explain tribes with human sacrifice?

I have said this once and I will say this again. This man speaks the truth. The fact of the matter is that we have two sides, one that is saying eating meat is wrong and the other saying that it is right. Both are using right and wrong in moral context which is completely subjective and thus neither side is right or wrong and this argument is rather meaningless.


Although it is true that we don't have to eat meat, it doesn't mean that we aren't designed to eat meat. In fact we are omnivores, we can and have evolved to eat both meat and plants. Whether you choose one over the other is your own discretion and is in no way shape or form above anyone else' decision.



I agree with him that it's subjective.

But I believe that you can treat opinion as something which can be "right" or "wrong". Just like how you know that killing another human for no reason is wrong, you just know it!

So I'm saying, you can treat opinion as something that is right or wrong, because without doing so, nothing will ever function.

  • 12.25.2010 5:20 AM PDT

The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.

~Joseph Campbell


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Although that's true, we still treat a set of morals as fact (that murdering another human is wrong). Just because it's subjective, doesn't mean it can't be acted upon.

You are saying that anything that isn't pure fact, can't be treated with any seriousness.


You get a group of people, they all have similar morals, they teach those morals to their children, tadaa!, a society!

Just because you and your society find killing others wrong, doesn't mean every human does. How would you explain tribes with human sacrifice?


I get your point. But you'd still say it was a barbaric thing they are doing, and that it's wrong. You'd want to stop it.


Maybe I would, but they wouldn't. Who am I to tell them that they're wrong?

The point I'm making is that there is no correct moral decision.

  • 12.25.2010 5:21 AM PDT

The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.

~Joseph Campbell


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Although that's true, we still treat a set of morals as fact (that murdering another human is wrong). Just because it's subjective, doesn't mean it can't be acted upon.

You are saying that anything that isn't pure fact, can't be treated with any seriousness.


You get a group of people, they all have similar morals, they teach those morals to their children, tadaa!, a society!

Just because you and your society find killing others wrong, doesn't mean every human does. How would you explain tribes with human sacrifice?

I have said this once and I will say this again. This man speaks the truth. The fact of the matter is that we have two sides, one that is saying eating meat is wrong and the other saying that it is right. Both are using right and wrong in moral context which is completely subjective and thus neither side is right or wrong and this argument is rather meaningless.


Although it is true that we don't have to eat meat, it doesn't mean that we aren't designed to eat meat. In fact we are omnivores, we can and have evolved to eat both meat and plants. Whether you choose one over the other is your own discretion and is in no way shape or form above anyone else' decision.



I agree with him that it's subjective.

But I believe that you can treat opinion as something which can be "right" or "wrong". Just like how you know that killing another human for no reason is wrong, you just know it!

So I'm saying, you can treat opinion as something that is right or wrong, because without doing so, nothing will ever function.


That's just a society. Unfortunately for you, the majority of people in nearly every society you can find is ok with eating meat.

  • 12.25.2010 5:23 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Trace007
Anyway, so regardless if I eat meat or not, my argument is that this debate is useless. Morals can't be used as points, so all of the points are useless. The argument is invalid.


It's a debate, it's not expected to change the world.


I never said you were trying to change the world. Stop putting words in my mouth.


It's what you implied. You implied that we can't do anything to change it, so there's no point in talking about it. But there is no point in talking about most things, we just do. And I agree with your point that it's futile to talk about it, to an extent, but like Wyldfyre said, "One step at a time" (Or something like that, but you get the meaning).

But you seem intelligent, so I would like your opinion, and I'm not sure if you've stated whether you personally think it's right or wrong to eat meat for the purpose of satiating our desires?


I'm not implying that at all. I don't have "the grand scheme of things" in mind.

*points off in distance*

Remember your original post, WAY back there? I had that in mind. You said that you needed advice to stop eating meat. I came into the thread and saw that there was a moral argument about it. I don't see this argument helpful to you at all, so I'm attempting to dissolve it.

Anyway, thanks for the complement, and I do personally enjoy the taste of meat.


Oh, well, I can't argue with your reasons for it being futile in relation to stop eating. My apologies there.

But, you may enjoy the taste of meat, but I'm still wondering if you think it's wrong to eat it (you can do something if you think it's wrong).

  • 12.25.2010 5:24 AM PDT
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Exactly.

Morals are subjective; if there were right and wrong already, morals wouldn't be needed.

  • 12.25.2010 5:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX

I agree with him that it's subjective.

But I believe that you can treat opinion as something which can be "right" or "wrong". Just like how you know that killing another human for no reason is wrong, you just know it!

So I'm saying, you can treat opinion as something that is right or wrong, because without doing so, nothing will ever function.

Yes can treat an opinion as right or wrong, that is why we have laws. But that doesn't make it right or wrong. Again killing a human can either be wrong or right depending on the person's moral view.


In previous example: A person thinks that it is okay to kill another human for sacrifice. He is neither right or wrong it is just his opinion. You view that killing is wrong is no better than his. This what you fail to see, you keep saying "Just like how you know that killing another human for no reason is wrong, you just know it!" Which is incorrect since another person with different morals can easily beg to differ. Neither of you are right or wrong, just different morals.

That is the part that you fail to understand and accept, the fact of the matter is that you're saying your view on the subject of killing humans being wrong is absolute which is not true. Until you understand that people can have different views on what is right and wrong (neither are correct or incorrect), you will forever be in this loop.

[Edited on 12.25.2010 5:29 AM PST]

  • 12.25.2010 5:28 AM PDT

The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.

~Joseph Campbell


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Trace007

I'm not implying that at all. I don't have "the grand scheme of things" in mind.

*points off in distance*

Remember your original post, WAY back there? I had that in mind. You said that you needed advice to stop eating meat. I came into the thread and saw that there was a moral argument about it. I don't see this argument helpful to you at all, so I'm attempting to dissolve it.

Anyway, thanks for the complement, and I do personally enjoy the taste of meat.


Oh, well, I can't argue with your reasons for it being futile in relation to stop eating. My apologies there.

But, you may enjoy the taste of meat, but I'm still wondering if you think it's wrong to eat it (you can do something if you think it's wrong).


I don't think it's wrong. Though, don't get me wrong, I'm no hypocrite. I won't blame an animal if it ever decides to eat me.

  • 12.25.2010 5:28 AM PDT
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"I love the Chosen One (loving him is so much fun!); I love the Chosen One (not as much as ME!); I love the Chosen One (I love him with all my heart!); I love the Chosen One (I love him with my body parts!)..."

Yeah, a tiger's gotta eat, you know.

  • 12.25.2010 5:30 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Gman5434
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX

I agree with him that it's subjective.

But I believe that you can treat opinion as something which can be "right" or "wrong". Just like how you know that killing another human for no reason is wrong, you just know it!

So I'm saying, you can treat opinion as something that is right or wrong, because without doing so, nothing will ever function.

Yes can treat an opinion as right or wrong, that is why we have laws. But that doesn't make it right or wrong. Again killing a human can either be wrong or right depending on the person's moral view.


In previous example: A person thinks that it is okay to kill another human for sacrifice. He is neither right or wrong it is just his opinion. You view that killing is wrong is no better than his. This what you fail to see, you keep saying "Just like how you know that killing another human for no reason is wrong, you just know it!" Which is incorrect since another person with different morals can easily beg to differ. Neither of you are right or wrong, just different morals.

That is the part that you fail to understand and accept, the fact of the matter is that you're saying your view on the subject on killing humans is absolute with is not true. Until you understand that people can have different views on what is right and wrong (neither are correct or incorrect), you will forever be in this loop.


Alright fine, I understand that there is no right or wrong.

But, Gman, Trace, I know that the only correct moral decision is someones to himself, but opinion is not valueless, that's what I'm saying.

But opinions are not definitive, they can change.

So, I would like to know whether you think slaughtering animals for taste is right (in your opinions)?

  • 12.25.2010 5:33 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Trace007

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Trace007

I'm not implying that at all. I don't have "the grand scheme of things" in mind.

*points off in distance*

Remember your original post, WAY back there? I had that in mind. You said that you needed advice to stop eating meat. I came into the thread and saw that there was a moral argument about it. I don't see this argument helpful to you at all, so I'm attempting to dissolve it.

Anyway, thanks for the complement, and I do personally enjoy the taste of meat.


Oh, well, I can't argue with your reasons for it being futile in relation to stop eating. My apologies there.

But, you may enjoy the taste of meat, but I'm still wondering if you think it's wrong to eat it (you can do something if you think it's wrong).


I don't think it's wrong. Though, don't get me wrong, I'm no hypocrite. I won't blame an animal if it ever decides to eat me.


Can you justify why you don't think it's wrong?

Because we are apex, I'm assuming, from the context.

  • 12.25.2010 5:34 AM PDT
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My view:

We are omnivores. Humans have evolved to be able to eat both meat and plants. In fact we are designed to eat both, although yes science has developed ways in which we do not have to eat meat but that is aside from the point. We are still omnivores just like other animals are carnivores, therefore my view is that eating meat cannot be wrong since it is just the cycle of life.

[Edited on 12.25.2010 5:39 AM PST]

  • 12.25.2010 5:38 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member

you cannot compare Halo 3 to Reach, Reach is not a game, its a disc in a plastic green case called pure fail.

Got it? good.

is this still going? What is there left to talk about?

Meat = good. If you don't like it fine the rest of us will continue eating it.

/thread

  • 12.25.2010 5:41 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Gman5434
My view:

We are omnivores. Humans have evolved to be able to eat both meat and plants. In fact we are designed to eat both, although yes science has developed ways in which we do not have to eat meat but that is aside from the point. We are still omnivores just like other animals are carnivores, therefore my view is that eating meat cannot be wrong since it is just the cycle of life.


Doesn't really answer the question.

Is killing animals to satiate our taste buds wrong?

  • 12.25.2010 5:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gman5434
My view:

We are omnivores. Humans have evolved to be able to eat both meat and plants. In fact we are designed to eat both, although yes science has developed ways in which we do not have to eat meat but that is aside from the point. We are still omnivores just like other animals are carnivores, therefore my view is that eating meat cannot be wrong since it is just the cycle of life.


Doesn't really answer the question.

Is killing animals to satiate our taste buds wrong?

No we are omnivores, we are designed to eat both just as some animals are carnivores. It cannot be wrong. It is simply the way of life.

[Edited on 12.25.2010 5:46 AM PST]

  • 12.25.2010 5:44 AM PDT