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  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: tacosaladman
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: spartakus14

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: tacosaladman
Fish gave us bigger brains.


This means we are not naturally designed to eat meat, but for FISH!!

Yes my statement in the OP is proven correct. Thanks bro.

And the other proof mentioned was to try and eat raw meat. This truly does summarise that argument.

Wait
So because early humans ate fish, we developed larger brains;therefore, we shouldn't eat fish because fish is a meat?

I don't quite understand the logic behind this.


Not quite.

Probably the most common argument I've seen here, is that eating meat is natural, so you should be natural.

This refutes the point that we are designed to eat meat. Meat being different to fish. Therefore it's not natural to eat meat, but it is to eat fish.

That's what our canines are for.

I also don't agree with the argument that if it's natural, you should do it, but nevertheless it still refutes it.
Okay now I'm starting to understand your view.


What's your view on your link?

  • 12.26.2010 6:49 PM PDT

Shakes Magic 8 Ball

Posted by: Forgery is bad
True.

I guess whatever works for you. In a way, it is healthier, simply because of the lack of fat as opposed to eating meat, unless of course it's lean meat.

Buffalo meat is leaner than cow meat. It apparently also tastes better too. Goat milk is also better than cow milk. I also find it odd that we are the only animal that drinks from a lactating cow, that isn't a cow.

  • 12.26.2010 6:49 PM PDT
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This thread is still going!?!?!!?

  • 12.26.2010 6:50 PM PDT
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But from my head to my toes
From my knees to my eyes
Everytime I watch the sky
For these last few days leave me alone
But for these last few days leave me alone
Leave me alone
Leave me alone

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: diadex
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
I've replied to everything that hasn't been asked and answered. Everything.
Oh, ha ha.

Not even close.


Ok, find me something that hasn't been answered, that is a relevant argument that's not just trolling or stupid and I'll answer it.

Tell me how the nutritional value of meat effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why, exactly, I should care about a non-human, non-sapient, domesticated animal's life. One incapable of metacognition.

Tell me how the evolutionary factors involved with meat-eating for humans effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why you think it is okay to eat plants but not animals.

Tell me if you think it is okay for someone to eat meat if that is the only source of food available to them and why.

Tell me if the manner in which an animal is killed effects the morality involved with eating that animal (ie, is it okay to eat animals if they are killed instantly and painlessly) and why.

Awaiting a reply.

  • 12.26.2010 6:50 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: Stephend098
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: TheCommanded
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to.
Because your canine teeth and incisors were built around chewing plants.

I'm having steak tonight. Gonna be tasty.


Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws

Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue
Herbivores: perspire through skin pores
Humans: perspire through skin pores

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Based on a chart by A.D. Andrews, Fit Food for Men, (Chicago: American Hygiene Society, 1970)


No, our teeth are not designed for eating meat, they can barely chew through cooked meat, and if we were carnivorous, they should be able to tear through it raw, with ease, like other carnivores.
FAIL! The acids in our stomachs are the strongest acid currently known to man.

haha NO

  • 12.26.2010 6:50 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Computerexpert3

Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: Computerexpert3
Look, no matter how many arguments you claim to win, no matter how many replies this topic gets and no matter how big these wars get, You won't achive anything because you don't have ANY power and no-one is going to convert to a hippie vegan from listening to your rambling. Animals will still die unless you acctually take action so I suggest that you stop wasting your time with this pointless argument and get on with your life.

FIN

Again with the assumption that Vegans are Vegetarians?


I meant Vegetarians but I was too lazy to put it in :P


To address the points in your quote (of you).

I converted because of 'hippie ramblings' so others can too.

  • 12.26.2010 6:51 PM PDT
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"Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus, I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that,after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." -1 Corinthians 9:24-27


Posted by: china

Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: Dookums46

Posted by: Serpent of Fire

Posted by: Dookums46
To all of those people who say that we ARE designed to eat meat because of our canines and other stuff, one thing.

Try eating raw meat.

...that is all.


Ever heard of sushi?

Those are bite-sized pieces. Here's what I mean:
1. Go out into a forest
2. Kill a deer.
3.Go home.
4. Cut off it's leg.
5. ...Now try eating it.

Yes because eating raw meat is totally worth having all those parasites, bacteria, and other microscopic critters inside of you.

I dont know about you, but my body can handle those things. I am not a weak person like most americans are today.

Bacteria is easy to fend off. no so much with parasitic diseases such as this or even this.

  • 12.26.2010 6:51 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: Forgery is bad
True.

I guess whatever works for you. In a way, it is healthier, simply because of the lack of fat as opposed to eating meat, unless of course it's lean meat.

Buffalo meat is leaner than cow meat. It apparently also tastes better too. Goat milk is also better than cow milk. I also find it odd that we are the only animal that drinks from a lactating cow, that isn't a cow.

There are many things that are odd about humans. And I prefer the gamey taste of wild animals much more than domesticated meat made in factories, though most people don't like the gamey taste.

Wild meat is also healthier because it has less fat.

[Edited on 12.26.2010 6:55 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2010 6:52 PM PDT
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"No! I must kill the demons" he shouted
The radio said "No, John. You are the demons."
And then John was a zombie.

-"Doom: Repercussions of Evil", by Peter Chimaera

Posted by: CHUD CHUFFER1
you need meat maybe not to live but to be heathy and look at bodybuilders they are the epitome of being heathy and they eat meat because it is an excellent source of protien and b12 along with other things.

Bodybuilders are hardly the definition of healthy, lol. They're the definition of building muscle definition for no reason at all. They pack on useless deadweight with no purpose. Anyway, I'll disengage rant mode before I get too far in.

Ignoring the ridiculous numbers of supplements they take (ONE GRAM PER POUND YOU WEIGH OR YOU'LL NEVER BUILD MUSSILZZ), they don't need meat to bulk up. Protein can be found in a number of sources other than meat and B12's can be taken in the form of a supplement as well.

You want healthy, look at athletes and military personnel. They eat meat (er most of them do, I assume) and they're a much better example for your point.

  • 12.26.2010 6:53 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: diadex
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: diadex
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
I've replied to everything that hasn't been asked and answered. Everything.
Oh, ha ha.

Not even close.


Ok, find me something that hasn't been answered, that is a relevant argument that's not just trolling or stupid and I'll answer it.

Tell me how the nutritional value of meat effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why, exactly, I should care about a non-human, non-sapient, domesticated animal's life. One incapable of metacognition.

Tell me how the evolutionary factors involved with meat-eating for humans effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why you think it is okay to eat plants but not animals.

Tell me if you think it is okay for someone to eat meat if that is the only source of food available to them and why.

Tell me if the manner in which an animal is killed effects the morality involved with eating that animal (ie, is it okay to eat animals if they are killed instantly and painlessly) and why.

Awaiting a reply.

Clutch, we are all awaiting a reply

  • 12.26.2010 6:53 PM PDT

Shakes Magic 8 Ball

Posted by: jondoe4362

Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: Forgery is bad
True.

I guess whatever works for you. In a way, it is healthier, simply because of the lack of fat as opposed to eating meat, unless of course it's lean meat.

Buffalo meat is leaner than cow meat. It apparently also tastes better too. Goat milk is also better than cow milk. I also find it odd that we are the only animal that drinks from a lactating cow, that isn't a cow.

There are many things that are odd about humans. And I prefer the gamey taste of wild animals much more than domesticated meat made in factories, though most people don't like the gamey taste.

I prefer egg white as opposed to egg yolk, hell... I don't even eat the yolk unless I use it for cooking. But that's just individual taste.

  • 12.26.2010 6:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
This refutes the point that we are designed to eat meat. Meat being different to fish.

I'm still not quite sure how you're drawing this conclusion, only a handful of religious denominations believe this, in which those have absolutely no scientific bearing on the actual definition of meat (which would be the flesh of an animal, including fish and other marine animals.)

  • 12.26.2010 6:54 PM PDT

Banned and proud of it.


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Computerexpert3

Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: Computerexpert3
Look, no matter how many arguments you claim to win, no matter how many replies this topic gets and no matter how big these wars get, You won't achive anything because you don't have ANY power and no-one is going to convert to a hippie vegan from listening to your rambling. Animals will still die unless you acctually take action so I suggest that you stop wasting your time with this pointless argument and get on with your life.

FIN

Again with the assumption that Vegans are Vegetarians?


I meant Vegetarians but I was too lazy to put it in :P


To address the points in your quote (of you).

I converted because of 'hippie ramblings' so others can too.


Well, it's not working.

  • 12.26.2010 6:55 PM PDT


Posted by: jondoe4362

Posted by: Stephend098
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: TheCommanded
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to.
Because your canine teeth and incisors were built around chewing plants.

I'm having steak tonight. Gonna be tasty.


Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws

Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue
Herbivores: perspire through skin pores
Humans: perspire through skin pores

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Based on a chart by A.D. Andrews, Fit Food for Men, (Chicago: American Hygiene Society, 1970)


No, our teeth are not designed for eating meat, they can barely chew through cooked meat, and if we were carnivorous, they should be able to tear through it raw, with ease, like other carnivores.
FAIL! The acids in our stomachs are the strongest acid currently known to man.

haha NO


Strongest known to man? Well, no. You also have to consider that the strength of the acidity of anything rests almost entirely on the concentration of said substance, not the substance itself.

However, that list is wrong. Human stomach acid is indeed HCl.

  • 12.26.2010 6:55 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: jondoe4362

Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: Forgery is bad
True.

I guess whatever works for you. In a way, it is healthier, simply because of the lack of fat as opposed to eating meat, unless of course it's lean meat.

Buffalo meat is leaner than cow meat. It apparently also tastes better too. Goat milk is also better than cow milk. I also find it odd that we are the only animal that drinks from a lactating cow, that isn't a cow.

There are many things that are odd about humans. And I prefer the gamey taste of wild animals much more than domesticated meat made in factories, though most people don't like the gamey taste.

I prefer egg white as opposed to egg yolk, hell... I don't even eat the yolk unless I use it for cooking. But that's just individual taste.

weird, I always have to mix the yolk in with the white, it just seems too bland to me if I don't.

  • 12.26.2010 6:58 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: tacosaladman
Posted by: Time Traveler

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
This refutes the point that we are designed to eat meat. Meat being different to fish.

I'm still not quite sure how you're drawing this conclusion, only a handful of religious denominations believe this, in which those have absolutely no scientific bearing on the actual definition of meat (which would be the flesh of an animal, including fish and other marine animals.)
Were talking about bony fish.
You know the ones with spines.

I though the link mentioned shellfish? And isn't it still meat?

  • 12.26.2010 6:59 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: diadex
Tell me how the nutritional value of meat effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why, exactly, I should care about a non-human, non-sapient, domesticated animal's life. One incapable of metacognition.

Tell me how the evolutionary factors involved with meat-eating for humans effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why you think it is okay to eat plants but not animals.

Tell me if you think it is okay for someone to eat meat if that is the only source of food available to them and why.

Tell me if the manner in which an animal is killed effects the morality involved with eating that animal (ie, is it okay to eat animals if they are killed instantly and painlessly) and why.

Awaiting a reply.


1. That was an argument put forth by meat eaters. They said it was ok, because it was to make you healthy and to survive.

2. To answer this (well re-answer it, I'll quote someone else, proving it's been asked before.


Posted by:G O R E 25
Just reading some of this thread makes me think how -blam!-ed up the world is, and the fact that in all realism corporations wouldn't feed anything to starving children if everyone was a vegetarian because they won't feed anything to them now, simply because they get nothing out of it. Many of the ignorant meat crazy people ITT refuse to even consider that there is preciousness to all life, aside from their own, or that we are capable of using our higher moral capabilities as opposed to simply saying that something is morally fine just because other animals do it... In all honesty the meat industry is just another testament to human selfishness and greed


3. They can't physically feel, like animals do, like humans do. It seems people view animals as mere objects, like robots.

4. In the grand moral scale, it's debatable, who are we to take another animals life. But in all honesty, I would do it myself (probably) because it is a matter of survival then.

5. It does. If you torture an animal, it makes it worse of course. But if you kill the animal painlessly, and never torture it, it's still bad, because I cannot justify killing it for the taste. Ending another animals life.

For reference, those questions have all been answered before, but it's a good summary and imo, those are fantastic questions.

  • 12.26.2010 7:01 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: china

Posted by: Papakonstantino
I just came home from slaughtering a goat.

If this is true, you have a respectable job.

Or he is an ancient Hebrew prophet.

  • 12.26.2010 7:02 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: everywhere116

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to.[/quote]Because your canine teeth and incisors were built around chewing plants.

I'm having steak tonight. Gonna be tasty. [/quote]

Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws

Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue
Herbivores: perspire through skin pores
Humans: perspire through skin pores

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Based on a chart by A.D. Andrews, Fit Food for Men, (Chicago: American Hygiene Society, 1970)[/quote]

No, our teeth are not designed for eating meat, they can barely chew through cooked meat, and if we were carnivorous, they should be able to tear through it raw, with ease, like other carnivores.[/quote]FAIL! The acids in our stomachs are the strongest acid currently known to man.

haha NO


Strongest known to man? Well, no. You also have to consider that the strength of the acidity of anything rests almost entirely on the concentration of said substance, not the substance itself.

However, that list is wrong. Human stomach acid is indeed HCl.


Scroll through page one, there is a list showing that carnivore stomach acid is 20 times stronger than human acid.

Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

EDIT: That list has been quoted! lol.

[Edited on 12.26.2010 7:04 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2010 7:03 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: tacosaladman
Posted by: jondoe4362

Posted by: tacosaladman
Posted by: Time Traveler

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
This refutes the point that we are designed to eat meat. Meat being different to fish.

I'm still not quite sure how you're drawing this conclusion, only a handful of religious denominations believe this, in which those have absolutely no scientific bearing on the actual definition of meat (which would be the flesh of an animal, including fish and other marine animals.)
Were talking about bony fish.
You know the ones with spines.

I though the link mentioned shellfish? And isn't it still meat?
My bad I meant Shellfish and bony fish.

kk

  • 12.26.2010 7:04 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: diadex
Tell me how the nutritional value of meat effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why, exactly, I should care about a non-human, non-sapient, domesticated animal's life. One incapable of metacognition.

Tell me how the evolutionary factors involved with meat-eating for humans effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why you think it is okay to eat plants but not animals.

Tell me if you think it is okay for someone to eat meat if that is the only source of food available to them and why.

Tell me if the manner in which an animal is killed effects the morality involved with eating that animal (ie, is it okay to eat animals if they are killed instantly and painlessly) and why.

Awaiting a reply.


1. That was an argument put forth by meat eaters. They said it was ok, because it was to make you healthy and to survive.

2. To answer this (well re-answer it, I'll quote someone else, proving it's been asked before.


Posted by:G O R E 25
Just reading some of this thread makes me think how -blam!-ed up the world is, and the fact that in all realism corporations wouldn't feed anything to starving children if everyone was a vegetarian because they won't feed anything to them now, simply because they get nothing out of it. Many of the ignorant meat crazy people ITT refuse to even consider that there is preciousness to all life, aside from their own, or that we are capable of using our higher moral capabilities as opposed to simply saying that something is morally fine just because other animals do it... In all honesty the meat industry is just another testament to human selfishness and greed


3. They can't physically feel, like animals do, like humans do. It seems people view animals as mere objects, like robots.

4. In the grand moral scale, it's debatable, who are we to take another animals life. But in all honesty, I would do it myself (probably) because it is a matter of survival then.

5. It does. If you torture an animal, it makes it worse of course. But if you kill the animal painlessly, and never torture it, it's still bad, because I cannot justify killing it for the taste. Ending another animals life.

For reference, those questions have all been answered before, but it's a good summary and imo, those are fantastic questions.

I don't really see how you answered the second arguement and the rest just seems like opinion, in which case you should have no right in trying to force it on others.

  • 12.26.2010 7:06 PM PDT