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  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
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"Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus, I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that,after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." -1 Corinthians 9:24-27


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

Prove it. If you think just because our stomach is acidic as a herbivore's stomach, then you're an idiot. Humans are omnivores. Both plants and animals are our main sources of food, not one or the other.

[Edited on 12.26.2010 7:10 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2010 7:09 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Time Traveler

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
This refutes the point that we are designed to eat meat. Meat being different to fish.

I'm still not quite sure how you're drawing this conclusion, only a handful of religious denominations believe this, in which those have absolutely no scientific bearing on the actual definition of meat (which would be the flesh of an animal, including fish and other marine animals.)


Well it is meat, that's true. There's no way I can argue that one.

But it's a weaker meat, and not the meat that the meat eaters are assuming we are naturally designed to eat. Canines aren't for eating deer, they are for goldfish.

Not naturally designed to eat the beef and chicken that people have said we are designed to eat though.

  • 12.26.2010 7:09 PM PDT

Shakes Magic 8 Ball

Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

Prove it. If you think just because our stomach is acidic as a herbivore's stomach, then you're an idiot. Humans are omnivores. both plants and animals are our main sources of food, not one or the other.

I know that our stomach acid is the strength of Hydrochloric Acid, I don't know how strong that is.

  • 12.26.2010 7:10 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: china
meat eaters: have canines
pleant eaters:no canines
humans: sharp canines

meat eaters: front teeth with little points
plant eaters: smooth teath in their whole mouth.
humans: front teeth have little points

meat eaters: eyes pointed foward to be able to focus on movement to hunt.
plant eaters: eyes slightly or more than slightly pointed away from each other to see preadetors.
humans: eyes pointed foward.

meat eaters: Are preadators, may or may not have preadators
plant eaters: are not preadators, have preadators
humans: are preadators by instinct, do not have preadators.


Humans arent designed to eat meat? Really?


Humans are designed for fish. Canines can't handle raw meat.

And irrelevant, it's still wrong to eat fish even.

We've argued this countless times now!

  • 12.26.2010 7:11 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

Prove it. If you think just because our stomach is acidic as a herbivore's stomach, then you're an idiot. Humans are omnivores. Both plants and animals are our main sources of food, not one or the other.


I believe that because of the list I posted. I can accept that maybe I was misinformed, maybe I wasn't. But I'm not about to test the pH of our stomachs and a herbivores stomach.

  • 12.26.2010 7:12 PM PDT

Posted by: Mr SnuggIy
So I think Jun's a master chef, because he takes off his helmet and your like whoa, I think he's a chef.

So to shorten this up, Jun is master chef.

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: I BlackDog l

Dude, killing someones mom, a human being, is much worse than killing a cow, an animal.

Animals aren't people. They don't have meta-cognitive thought.


Yes it is much worse, but it doesn't change the fact that it's bad. And they have feelings, they feel pain, that's all that matters.
Does that mean that a cheetah eating a gazelle is immoral? Should we make all carnivores into herbivores? After all, they are causing other animals pain.

  • 12.26.2010 7:13 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: china
meat eaters: have canines
pleant eaters:no canines
humans: sharp canines

meat eaters: front teeth with little points
plant eaters: smooth teath in their whole mouth.
humans: front teeth have little points

meat eaters: eyes pointed foward to be able to focus on movement to hunt.
plant eaters: eyes slightly or more than slightly pointed away from each other to see preadetors.
humans: eyes pointed foward.

meat eaters: Are preadators, may or may not have preadators
plant eaters: are not preadators, have preadators
humans: are preadators by instinct, do not have preadators.


Humans arent designed to eat meat? Really?

And while posting this, i was eating a sandwich that has about a half inch to 3/4 inch of salami and bacon.


:) Yummy, and good for me. And my mouth and carnivore teeth handles it fine.

Perfect arguement except for the last one is inaccurate since ancient humans had predators and had to rely on brains to stay alive.

I like your point on eye placement though. Predators have eyes pointed forward and the individual sight from each overlaps, creating a 3d view perfect for judging distance, which is important for predation or working with tools. Most herbivores are prey though and have eyes facing sideways to detect movement of possible predators. Horses view the world something like this

  • 12.26.2010 7:15 PM PDT
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you cannot compare Halo 3 to Reach, Reach is not a game, its a disc in a plastic green case called pure fail.

Got it? good.

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX


And irrelevant, it's still wrong to eat fish even.

We've argued this countless times now!


maybe it's wrong in your opinion but it's not wrong to me.

  • 12.26.2010 7:15 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

Prove it. If you think just because our stomach is acidic as a herbivore's stomach, then you're an idiot. Humans are omnivores. both plants and animals are our main sources of food, not one or the other.

I know that our stomach acid is the strength of Hydrochloric Acid, I don't know how strong that is.

Is it even the strength of the acid itself or is it more reliant on the concentration of it inside the stomach? I''m not really sure I'm not a digestive system expert. If someone could clarify this for us it would be great.

  • 12.26.2010 7:18 PM PDT
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"Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus, I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that,after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." -1 Corinthians 9:24-27


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

Prove it. If you think just because our stomach is acidic as a herbivore's stomach, then you're an idiot. Humans are omnivores. Both plants and animals are our main sources of food, not one or the other.


I believe that because of the list I posted. I can accept that maybe I was misinformed, maybe I wasn't. But I'm not about to test the pH of our stomachs and a herbivores stomach.
Gastric acid is made up of HCL,KCL, and NaCL. Our stomach acid has a pH of 1 or 2. I'm pretty sure that's more acidic than a herbivore. Wanna know why? Because humans are omnivores.

  • 12.26.2010 7:18 PM PDT
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But from my head to my toes
From my knees to my eyes
Everytime I watch the sky
For these last few days leave me alone
But for these last few days leave me alone
Leave me alone
Leave me alone

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: diadex
Tell me how the nutritional value of meat effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why, exactly, I should care about a non-human, non-sapient, domesticated animal's life. One incapable of metacognition.

Tell me how the evolutionary factors involved with meat-eating for humans effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why you think it is okay to eat plants but not animals.

Tell me if you think it is okay for someone to eat meat if that is the only source of food available to them and why.

Tell me if the manner in which an animal is killed effects the morality involved with eating that animal (ie, is it okay to eat animals if they are killed instantly and painlessly) and why.

Awaiting a reply.


1. That was an argument put forth by meat eaters. They said it was ok, because it was to make you healthy and to survive.

2. To answer this (well re-answer it, I'll quote someone else, proving it's been asked before.


Posted by:G O R E 25
Just reading some of this thread makes me think how -blam!-ed up the world is, and the fact that in all realism corporations wouldn't feed anything to starving children if everyone was a vegetarian because they won't feed anything to them now, simply because they get nothing out of it. Many of the ignorant meat crazy people ITT refuse to even consider that there is preciousness to all life, aside from their own, or that we are capable of using our higher moral capabilities as opposed to simply saying that something is morally fine just because other animals do it... In all honesty the meat industry is just another testament to human selfishness and greed


3. They can't physically feel, like animals do, like humans do. It seems people view animals as mere objects, like robots.

4. In the grand moral scale, it's debatable, who are we to take another animals life. But in all honesty, I would do it myself (probably) because it is a matter of survival then.

5. It does. If you torture an animal, it makes it worse of course. But if you kill the animal painlessly, and never torture it, it's still bad, because I cannot justify killing it for the taste. Ending another animals life.

For reference, those questions have all been answered before, but it's a good summary and imo, those are fantastic questions.
I think you got your answers mixed up, because I asked six things, and you only answered five.

1. I didn't ask who put forth the argument. Please don't avoid answering my questions. In the thread, many people arguing against eating meat have tried to prove that eating meat is unhealthy. I asked why whether or not it is unhealthy to eat meat should effect the morality of eating it.

2. The only thing in your quote that came close to answering my question was when he said "Many of the ignorant meat crazy people ITT refuse to even consider that there is preciousness to all life, aside from their own", which only implies that he believes there is equal value in all life. He did not prove that there is equal value to all life. I asked you to justify your stance, not restate your position.

3. This is where you actually skipped my number three and went on to my next question. So what you are saying is that killing animals doesn't matter, it's only bad if they can feel it? Got it.

4. I don't know why you would eat an animal when it is apparently immoral. You don't have to eat it. You could always die. Why put the animal through that? Isn't all life precious and equal in value? Why is your life more important than the animal's? What you are saying is that it is only bad to eat animals when it is convenient to avoid doing so.

5. You said before that the reason it is fine to kill plants is because they "can't physically feel". If we make it so animals can't physically feel, what's the harm? Are you also saying it's bad to kill a plant if I like its taste?

Awaiting another reply.

  • 12.26.2010 7:18 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: china
meat eaters: have canines
pleant eaters:no canines
humans: sharp canines

meat eaters: front teeth with little points
plant eaters: smooth teath in their whole mouth.
humans: front teeth have little points

meat eaters: eyes pointed foward to be able to focus on movement to hunt.
plant eaters: eyes slightly or more than slightly pointed away from each other to see preadetors.
humans: eyes pointed foward.

meat eaters: Are preadators, may or may not have preadators
plant eaters: are not preadators, have preadators
humans: are preadators by instinct, do not have preadators.


Humans arent designed to eat meat? Really?


Humans are designed for fish. Canines can't handle raw meat.

And irrelevant, it's still wrong to eat fish even.

We've argued this countless times now!

So its wrong to eat fish despite the fact we are specifically designed for it?

  • 12.26.2010 7:19 PM PDT

Shakes Magic 8 Ball

Posted by: jondoe4362
So its wrong to eat fish despite the fact we are specifically designed for it?

I wouldn't say we're designed for it, but we revolve around it.

  • 12.26.2010 7:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Mr SnuggIy
So I think Jun's a master chef, because he takes off his helmet and your like whoa, I think he's a chef.

So to shorten this up, Jun is master chef.

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
NO you can't say a balanced diet (with meat) is healthy, this proves it wrong. Very very wrong.

What is healthy about Heart diseases and cancers? It's the definition of unhealthy.
See? It's all about what information you provide. Everything has its positives and negatives. By eating both meat and vegetables, you get the pros and cons of both, thus balancing yourself out.

[Edited on 12.26.2010 7:21 PM PST]

  • 12.26.2010 7:20 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

Prove it. If you think just because our stomach is acidic as a herbivore's stomach, then you're an idiot. Humans are omnivores. Both plants and animals are our main sources of food, not one or the other.


I believe that because of the list I posted. I can accept that maybe I was misinformed, maybe I wasn't. But I'm not about to test the pH of our stomachs and a herbivores stomach.
Gastric acid is made up of HCL,KCL, and NaCL. Our stomach acid has a pH of 1 or 2. I'm pretty sure that's more acidic than a herbivore. Wanna know why? Because humans are omnivores.

Holy crap its that acidic? Thats crazy! No wonder heartburn hurts so bad...

  • 12.26.2010 7:21 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: jondoe4362
So its wrong to eat fish despite the fact we are specifically designed for it?

I wouldn't say we're designed for it, but we revolve around it.

I don't really understand, did you mean we evolved doing it?

  • 12.26.2010 7:24 PM PDT
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"Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus, I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that,after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." -1 Corinthians 9:24-27


Posted by: jondoe4362

Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

Prove it. If you think just because our stomach is acidic as a herbivore's stomach, then you're an idiot. Humans are omnivores. Both plants and animals are our main sources of food, not one or the other.


I believe that because of the list I posted. I can accept that maybe I was misinformed, maybe I wasn't. But I'm not about to test the pH of our stomachs and a herbivores stomach.
Gastric acid is made up of HCL,KCL, and NaCL. Our stomach acid has a pH of 1 or 2. I'm pretty sure that's more acidic than a herbivore. Wanna know why? Because humans are omnivores.

Holy crap its that acidic? Thats crazy! No wonder heartburn hurts so bad...

Sucks to have acid reflux. Also you're sarcasm is unnecessary.

  • 12.26.2010 7:24 PM PDT

Posted by: Mr SnuggIy
So I think Jun's a master chef, because he takes off his helmet and your like whoa, I think he's a chef.

So to shorten this up, Jun is master chef.

Posted by: jondoe4362

Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Our stomach acid is the same strength as a herbivores.

Prove it. If you think just because our stomach is acidic as a herbivore's stomach, then you're an idiot. Humans are omnivores. Both plants and animals are our main sources of food, not one or the other.


I believe that because of the list I posted. I can accept that maybe I was misinformed, maybe I wasn't. But I'm not about to test the pH of our stomachs and a herbivores stomach.
Gastric acid is made up of HCL,KCL, and NaCL. Our stomach acid has a pH of 1 or 2. I'm pretty sure that's more acidic than a herbivore. Wanna know why? Because humans are omnivores.

Holy crap its that acidic? Thats crazy! No wonder heartburn hurts so bad...
Ever heard of stomach acid?

  • 12.26.2010 7:26 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: jondoe4362
Holy crap its that acidic? Thats crazy! No wonder heartburn hurts so bad...

Sucks to have acid reflux. Also you're sarcasm is unnecessary.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic I was truly shocked, before I thought gastric acid was like a Ph of 4 or 5 at the lowest.

  • 12.26.2010 7:28 PM PDT

Shakes Magic 8 Ball

Posted by: jondoe4362

Posted by: NorbergK6
Posted by: jondoe4362
So its wrong to eat fish despite the fact we are specifically designed for it?

I wouldn't say we're designed for it, but we revolve around it.

I don't really understand, did you mean we evolved doing it?

Eh... I guess, nobody births a child and says he is going to eat roots for the rest of his life. It's just genetic traits passed on from one to another.

  • 12.26.2010 7:28 PM PDT
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"Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus, I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that,after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." -1 Corinthians 9:24-27


Posted by: jondoe4362

Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: jondoe4362
Holy crap its that acidic? Thats crazy! No wonder heartburn hurts so bad...

Sucks to have acid reflux. Also you're sarcasm is unnecessary.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic I was truly shocked, before I thought gastric acid was like a Ph of 4 or 5 at the lowest.

My apologies. You've been informed.

  • 12.26.2010 7:32 PM PDT