Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore

Shakes Magic 8 Ball

I'd rather not eat fish... I can't define the texture the way I perceive it, but it's like small diamond shaped gels that spread apart with a taste of butter... Gross...

  • 12.26.2010 8:11 PM PDT

Calculus calms my troubled mind


Posted by: NorbergK6
I'd rather not eat fish... I can't define the texture the way I perceive it, but it's like small diamond shaped gels that spread apart with a taste of butter... Gross...

I'm not really that into bony fish either, but I love oysters and clams

  • 12.26.2010 8:14 PM PDT

You can't get what you want...

...until you know what that is.

Oh, Heavens, no, don't let the thread die quietly! Drag it out longer than anyone cares to read it!

  • 12.26.2010 9:46 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: N7R
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX


And irrelevant, it's still wrong to eat fish even.

We've argued this countless times now!


maybe it's wrong in your opinion but it's not wrong to me.


Sorry, that's what I meant. It's wrong to me to eat fish, but I can understand people justifying that one.

  • 12.27.2010 7:04 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: PETA Employee

Posted by: Mickey1980
Are any of the animals I eat even capable of metacognition? Didn't think so. Given this, what is the difference between eating a plant and eating an animal?

Idiocy at its best.


Haha, the best part is that it's been answered countlessly too.

  • 12.27.2010 7:06 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: WhiffleBallTony
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: I BlackDog l

Dude, killing someones mom, a human being, is much worse than killing a cow, an animal.

Animals aren't people. They don't have meta-cognitive thought.


Yes it is much worse, but it doesn't change the fact that it's bad. And they have feelings, they feel pain, that's all that matters.
Does that mean that a cheetah eating a gazelle is immoral? Should we make all carnivores into herbivores? After all, they are causing other animals pain.


No but being intelligent enough to understand the pain we are causing is what makes it different for us.

  • 12.27.2010 7:07 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: diadex
Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: diadex
Tell me how the nutritional value of meat effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why, exactly, I should care about a non-human, non-sapient, domesticated animal's life. One incapable of metacognition.

Tell me how the evolutionary factors involved with meat-eating for humans effects the morality of eating it.

Tell me why you think it is okay to eat plants but not animals.

Tell me if you think it is okay for someone to eat meat if that is the only source of food available to them and why.

Tell me if the manner in which an animal is killed effects the morality involved with eating that animal (ie, is it okay to eat animals if they are killed instantly and painlessly) and why.

Awaiting a reply.


1. That was an argument put forth by meat eaters. They said it was ok, because it was to make you healthy and to survive.

2. To answer this (well re-answer it, I'll quote someone else, proving it's been asked before.


Posted by:G O R E 25
Just reading some of this thread makes me think how -blam!-ed up the world is, and the fact that in all realism corporations wouldn't feed anything to starving children if everyone was a vegetarian because they won't feed anything to them now, simply because they get nothing out of it. Many of the ignorant meat crazy people ITT refuse to even consider that there is preciousness to all life, aside from their own, or that we are capable of using our higher moral capabilities as opposed to simply saying that something is morally fine just because other animals do it... In all honesty the meat industry is just another testament to human selfishness and greed


3. They can't physically feel, like animals do, like humans do. It seems people view animals as mere objects, like robots.

4. In the grand moral scale, it's debatable, who are we to take another animals life. But in all honesty, I would do it myself (probably) because it is a matter of survival then.

5. It does. If you torture an animal, it makes it worse of course. But if you kill the animal painlessly, and never torture it, it's still bad, because I cannot justify killing it for the taste. Ending another animals life.

For reference, those questions have all been answered before, but it's a good summary and imo, those are fantastic questions.
I think you got your answers mixed up, because I asked six things, and you only answered five.

1. I didn't ask who put forth the argument. Please don't avoid answering my questions. In the thread, many people arguing against eating meat have tried to prove that eating meat is unhealthy. I asked why whether or not it is unhealthy to eat meat should effect the morality of eating it.

2. The only thing in your quote that came close to answering my question was when he said "Many of the ignorant meat crazy people ITT refuse to even consider that there is preciousness to all life, aside from their own", which only implies that he believes there is equal value in all life. He did not prove that there is equal value to all life. I asked you to justify your stance, not restate your position.

3. This is where you actually skipped my number three and went on to my next question. So what you are saying is that killing animals doesn't matter, it's only bad if they can feel it? Got it.

4. I don't know why you would eat an animal when it is apparently immoral. You don't have to eat it. You could always die. Why put the animal through that? Isn't all life precious and equal in value? Why is your life more important than the animal's? What you are saying is that it is only bad to eat animals when it is convenient to avoid doing so.

5. You said before that the reason it is fine to kill plants is because they "can't physically feel". If we make it so animals can't physically feel, what's the harm? Are you also saying it's bad to kill a plant if I like its taste?

Awaiting another reply.



Oops sorry about mixing the answers up, I completely missed 3. I'll start again and answer your new questions :)

1. Hypothetically, let's say meat is necessary for survival. It becomes a matter of killing them or dying, then I believe it is justified to kill them. I'm not saying it's right, but it is a matter of survival of the fittest, and it's just the way the world works, that's a fair argument. I still do not justify torturing animals for survival, but to kill them to live is justifiable (not necessarily right). I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm selfish and greedy enough to value my own life higher than other peoples and animals (not necessarily the people I care about, but others). Like, I would kill someone who threatened my life, but I wouldn't kill someone to survive if they weren't the threat (well, I don't believe that it's right to do).

Now let's say that meat isn't necessary for survival, but it has it's health benefits. I think it makes it more justifiable, but far from it, because a healthy diet can easily be obtained from other sources.

Now let's say that meat is bad for you, it causes diseases (which to me seems the truth, mixed in with some benefits, such as effective protein intake) then I believe it's not only torturing and killing for greed, it becomes even greedier, because it's also bad for you.

2. You cannot prove there is a true value to anything, that's been proven by the meat - eaters. It's just something that you feel, you know, and I can't put it any better than, "there is a preciousness to all life, aside from your own". People here have shown that they just believe animals are unfeeling creatures, the same as an inanimate object, yet they don't understand that they can feel.

Can you tell me that an animal's life is less worthy than yours? I can't tell you that it is precious, but can you tell me that it's not? If you can't, then who are you to take it's life away?

3. No, I'm saying it's worse if they can feel pain. The killing part (the physical act of killing) is ok, if it can't feel pain, but ending it's life, that's not our decision to make. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

4. Refer to my point 1, the answer is the same.

5. To numb all feeling from an animal, and to do it so that it doesn't suffer it to also completely numb the mind too (it will still experience fear if it can't experience pain). So to do this, is the same as killing it.

And since I don't believe plants can feel pain, or such like, I think it's ok to take a plants life (because it's not really alive anyway, it's like a computer in a way). So as long as it's not hurting the eco-system, it's not exactly murder to uproot a plant.

3 (Original 3). It doesn't affect it. If we don't NEED to eat meat, then we can't justify slaughtering them for food.

The only reason I've argued that it's not evolutionary to eat meat (check our canines that can't rip through raw meat) is because it's another counter to the argument that we are designed to eat meat. If you can prove you aren't designed to eat meat, then they can't even argue that. But even if we were perfectly capable of eating meat, it still doesn't make it right.

Thanks for the questions, I wasn't trying to avoid anything, sorry if it seems that way.

[Edited on 12.27.2010 7:43 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2010 7:22 AM PDT

Gamertag - Rdog 11

Call me Rdog, not RdOG or RdOG1507. I made that username when I thought it was cool to use alternating capital and lowercase letters...

Murder is the killing of another human being. Killing an animal is not murder. I guess some 9-year-old girl that has cows on her daddy's farm made that silly poem. Using animals' meat for food has been done forever. Since the beginning of time.

Now, I'm hungry for some barbeque.

[Edited on 12.27.2010 7:36 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2010 7:35 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: RdOG1507
Murder is the killing of another human being. Killing an animal is not murder. I guess some 9-year-old girl that has cows on her daddy's farm made that silly poem. Using animals' meat for food has been done forever. Since the beginning of time.

Now, I'm hungry for some barbeque.


Official definitions aren't the point. Even if it was a 9 year old girl, the message is still the same.

It is murder. Hypothetically, let's say another species evolved, to be exactly the same intelligence as humans, but they were reptilian, so it's clearly a different animal.

Just because it's not human, doesn't mean it's not murder. The principle is the same, whether it's your official definition of murder or not, the meaning is the same. It's basically murder, you can coin a new word for it if you like. Animal Murder.


And the fact we've been doing it for the beginning of time is false (well not completely, but it's not as you make out) and even if it was true, it doesn't change anything now as we don't need to do it.

We've been killing each other since the beginning of time, but it's about time we stopped doing that.

Because it's habit does not make it right.

  • 12.27.2010 7:49 AM PDT

I am Godlike!

Eating meat is a natural part of human life. We are adapted to eating meat, so there is nothing wrong with doing so. It is natural for one animal to die to provide food for another. I am so sick and tired of people saying all this crap about how inhumane it is, when eating meat is such a natural part of life.

  • 12.27.2010 7:52 AM PDT

You really are trying to make a career out of this thread, aren't you? Can you really argue in circles forever? It appears so.

  • 12.27.2010 7:54 AM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

Come on people! Lets make this a new top topic!

  • 12.27.2010 7:55 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Dr TimothyLeary
You really are trying to make a career out of this thread, aren't you? Can you really argue in circles forever? It appears so.


People keep asking the same questions, I keep re-iterating answers to them.

  • 12.27.2010 7:55 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Godlike Hunter
Eating meat is a natural part of human life. We are adapted to eating meat, so there is nothing wrong with doing so. It is natural for one animal to die to provide food for another. I am so sick and tired of people saying all this crap about how inhumane it is, when eating meat is such a natural part of life.


Fails on account of so many levels. Check the last few pages, your points have been answered many a time.

  • 12.27.2010 7:56 AM PDT


Posted by: lord of dahorde
Come on people! Lets make this a new top topic!
Why? It should have been locked pages ago. Everyone is just making the same statements over and over. There's no discussion left.

  • 12.27.2010 7:57 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Dr TimothyLeary

Posted by: lord of dahorde
Come on people! Lets make this a new top topic!
Why? It should have been locked pages ago. Everyone is just making the same statements over and over. There's no discussion left.


That is true, nothing new has come up in ages (except the fish article), and the thread is too long for people to re-read to find the answers to their questions.

  • 12.27.2010 7:59 AM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: ShmorEman56
Congrats Clutch you are now the master troll of the flood. I don't personnally believe that we shouldnt but I am against animaly cruelty whilst they are alive. But if you pressure people into doing something they will resent you.

You=Master Level 10 troll


Well, that's justifiable.

I'll just ignore the troll thing.

  • 12.27.2010 8:07 AM PDT

Posted by: Dr TimothyLeary

Posted by: lord of dahorde
Come on people! Lets make this a new top topic!
Why? It should have been locked pages ago. Everyone is just making the same statements over and over. There's no discussion left.

And you're doing an absolutely terrible job contributing to the thread yourself.

Eating meat is unjustifiable, to me. However, I do understand how others can see it as justified. I just ask people become aware of the abuse that occurs in the animal industry. There is absolutely no way you can justify abuse. And I believe anyone with a heart would agree.

  • 12.27.2010 8:08 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

REXEL is a phag bk.

"I Think About More Than I Forget..."

H2 > H3 > LoL Reach. Done with Reach 11/13/10

Who the F**K are y'all?

lmao

damn

this still going

i was on like page 58 yesterday.

  • 12.27.2010 8:08 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Heroic Member
  • gamertag: Mooard
  • user homepage:

Chicken.
With bacon inside.
Wrapped in bacon.
Fatless, crispy bacon.

  • 12.27.2010 8:12 AM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

Animals eat meat. Humans are intelligent animals.
What is wrong with it?

  • 12.27.2010 8:12 AM PDT