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  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big


Posted by: Gage_1337
As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.
Not only is this post hypocritical in that you rave for a solid run-on paragraph on how you are morally superior despite claiming to not feel that way, you're also wrong.

If no one ate meat, the trophic levels on the planet would be utterly destroyed. Human meat-eating is necessary for environmental balance. Sure, humans eat more meat than they need or should currently, but a world without meat-eating is one that will see devastating crop infertilities and mass animal and human starvation.

Vegans are vegans for purely selfish reasons. There is no 'world-citizen' aspect to it at all; you're doing it for yourself and yourself alone.

  • 12.27.2010 9:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: mahspoonis2big

Posted by: Gage_1337
As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.
Not only is this post hypocritical in that you rave for a solid run-on paragraph on how you are morally superior despite claiming to not feel that way, you're also wrong.

If no one ate meat, the trophic levels on the planet would be utterly destroyed. Human meat-eating is necessary for environmental balance. Sure, humans eat more meat than they need or should currently, but a world without meat-eating is one that will see devastating crop infertilities and mass animal and human starvation.

Vegans are vegans for purely selfish reasons. There is no 'world-citizen' aspect to it at all; you're doing it for yourself and yourself alone.

I never once claimed moral superiority. I just posted one of my ethical stances.

About Meat eating being necessity for enviromental balance: Links for proof? Eating meat seems pretty dertrimental to enviroment in my opinion.

Beef cattle, weighing in at around 900 pounds as an adult, require around 80 pounds of food each day[1], 18 pounds of which is grain[2] (most beef cattle in the U.S. are grain-fed[3]). Beef cattle live for only three to six years before being slaughtered[4]. Calculating only a three-year lifespan, that means the cow would have consumed 18 pounds of grain per day x 365 days per year x 3 years = 19,710 pound of grain during its life. But, of course, the animal is not born full grown, so we will cut this number in half to 9,855 pounds of grain consumed in its lifetime. Typically 62% of the weight of the animal ends up as meat[5]. So for our 900 pound example, we would have around 558 pounds of meat. 9,855 pounds of grain divided by 558 pounds of meat is 17.6 pounds of grain for each pound of meat.

This is, obviously, far less efficient than supplying grains directly to people to eat.

The massive "Corn Belt" of the United States, stretching from North Dakota to Ohio, grows corn and soybeans, not for human consumption, but for animal feed.

The wastefulness of producing meat does not end just with feeding the animals. Massive amounts of fresh water, a precious and dwindling commodity, are required for meat production. Although 12 gallons of water are required for a 900 pound animal per day[6], this figure is paltry considering the amound of water required to irrigate the grains and silage used to feed the animals. The mighty Colorado River no longer reaches the ocean, because it is used for irrigation (much of it for alfalfa and grains)[7].

And then there is the matter of the fossil fuels required to support the production of the meat. Since it takes 17 times more grain to produce meat, it takes 17 times more fossil fuels to grow that grain. But it does not stop there: there is the transportation and storage of the grain, transportation of the animals, production, refridgeration and transportation of the meat, and so on. In the end, it takes 26 times the fossil fuels to support a meat-centered diet than a vegetarian diet. A United Nations report in 2007 states that 18% of global warming emissions come from raising animals for food[8]. Compare this to only 13% of emissions coming from all of the cars, trucks, trains, boats and airplanes in the world, combined.

Results of the Wastefulness

Less Resources for and Exploding Population
A vegetarian diet is the most efficient diet for feeding people in the least amount of space. That is why the Biosphere 2 experiments utilized a vegetarian diet exclusively.
Demand for Fossil Fuels
Demand for fossil fuels raises the prices at the gas pump as well as other commodities. Demand for fossil fuels results in wars to protect the precious supplies. Demand for fossil fuels results in increased drilling in parts of the world where an inevitable spill would be disasterous. Demand for fossil fuels increases greenhouse gasses and global warming.
Loss of Natural Habitat
Vast quantities of land are being used to supply food for the meat industry. Most of this land could be reverted back into natural habitat.
Pesticides, Herbicides and Chemical Fertilizer
Raising cattle and the food to feed the cattle is not a bucolic, pastoral scene, in harmony with nature. Agribusiness is the #1 pollutor, with chemical pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers being used, with runoff into our aquifers and waterways. Believe it or not, it is usually healthier to live next to a factory than next to a farm that uses these methods.

Moar!

But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.

[Edited on 12.27.2010 9:49 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2010 9:42 AM PDT

I am the God Emprah of Mankind.

Deal with it.

Does nobody realize what your all doing DON'T FEED THE TROLL. Got it then let this thread die already.

  • 12.27.2010 9:43 AM PDT

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big

Posted by: Gage_1337
But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.
I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves.

Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.

  • 12.27.2010 9:48 AM PDT

WildCard Machinima motto: "Make 'em laugh, make them cry, make them remember why."

My motto:"We have all the time in the world, the only obsticles are the ones we put in front of us that stop us..."

*eats bacon*

  • 12.27.2010 9:51 AM PDT
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What a load of -blam!-. I don't garnish any of my meat its fine how it is. Tastes way better than that -blam!- that grows out of the mud.
You could debate that we don't need to eat meat, maybe its true but its are right to chose. So I could say, you don't need the internet, T.V, fashion products, cars, big buildings, plains, brand name shoes, books, or any new aged technology or toys. We could all just -blam!- in a cave and eat -blam!- grass.
There are a lot of things you don't need but you still use and want.
But hey if you want everyone to be a vegetarian and have to have to destroy millions of acres of wildlife habitat to sustain the world demand for farmland to grow the fruits and vegetables then fine. Your still killing innocent creatures the only difference is because your doing it indirectly so you can feel better about yourself if you don't think about it.

[Edited on 12.27.2010 10:01 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2010 9:54 AM PDT
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Tank beats everything! :D


Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Posted by: Gage_1337
But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.
I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves.

Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.

You still haven't provided any links for any proof that we need hto kill animals to keep enviromental balance in check. I'm not going to take your argument seriously until you provide some. Honestly, what proof is there that the world relies on factory farming?

  • 12.27.2010 9:55 AM PDT

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big


Posted by: Gage_1337

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Posted by: Gage_1337
But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.
I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves.

Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.

You still haven't provided any links for any proof that we need hto kill animals to keep enviromental balance in check. I'm not going to take your argument seriously until you provide some. Honestly, what proof is there that the world relies on factory farming?
I don't have -blam!-, biased links as you do, because I learned it from my Sustainable Environments professor. The day you find out where to get agenda-free information on the internet for free, let me know.

Also, you misunderstood. I did not once say the world relies on factory farming, though that is probably what you wanted to hear. I am not an advocate of factory farming, actually, which could have been easily ascertained by reading my posts in full.

[Edited on 12.27.2010 10:00 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2010 9:58 AM PDT
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  • Honorable Heroic Member

Does anyone even look at B.net sigs?


Posted by: Bungie Sam
Better than cow's harvesting us for MoocDonalds.

  • 12.27.2010 9:59 AM PDT

Reasons eating meat is "normal"
1.Other animals do it, is a lion "murdering" the gazelle, or is it just simply surving in the circle of life?

2.We are better than animals, plain and simple, we are most intelligent so we eat what we want.

3.I dont want to become a pale ass frail vegan who looks anorexic as could be.

4.Like above, It's healthy for you, sure there are alternatives but you gotta live. I only get one life on this earth and I will enjoy it how I want

5.Despite what you think, meat tastes good and we have been cooking it over a fire for hundreds of thousands of years.

6.Bacon=meat Bacon=the best food ever, with or without 500 garnishes.

7.-blam!-s gotta eat.

  • 12.27.2010 10:06 AM PDT

How about I make you a nice taco Sammich?

  • 12.27.2010 10:07 AM PDT

You must not know 'bout me

Give Eros a try. It's an active Off-Topic forum where everyone feels like friends.

Feel the love

There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to..
Talk to your appendix.

[Edited on 12.27.2010 10:12 AM PST]

  • 12.27.2010 10:09 AM PDT

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big


Posted by: ApolloCree
There is absolutely no reason why we should eat meat from an evolutionary or 'natural' perspective either. Our bodies are not designed to..[/quote]
Talk to your appendix.
I know this is a misquote and not you, but humans are designed to eat less meat than we do at present (think once, twice a week in large portions, three, four times in smaller ones). But, we are indeed natural omnivores from a purely objective standpoint.

  • 12.27.2010 10:11 AM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: XenoAttackin
So I could say, you don't need the internet, T.V, fashion products, cars, big buildings, plains, brand name shoes, books, or any new aged technology or toys. We could all just -blam!- in a cave and eat -blam!- grass.
Actually, we couldn't.

  • 12.27.2010 10:12 AM PDT
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Tank beats everything! :D


Posted by: mahspoonis2big

Posted by: Gage_1337

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Posted by: Gage_1337
But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.
I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves.

Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.

You still haven't provided any links for any proof that we need hto kill animals to keep enviromental balance in check. I'm not going to take your argument seriously until you provide some. Honestly, what proof is there that the world relies on factory farming?
I don't have -blam!-, biased links as you do, because I learned it from my Sustainable Environments professor. The day you find out where to get agenda-free information on the internet for free, let me know.

Also, you misunderstood. I did not once say the world relies on factory farming, though that is probably what you wanted to hear. I am not an advocate of factory farming, actually.

None of my links were biased. I doubt you even bothered to any check them. Of course, I currently do not have a Sustainable Environments professor So I am in need of links to prove whether or not that your claim that "f no one ate meat, the trophic levels on the planet would be utterly destroyed." is valid or not. Hey, I can do the same thing. I can quote someone with an opinion and base it as fact. Watch me...

Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.- Albert Einstein

See I just quoted Albert Einstein. Does that make my argument any more valid? No. You have to post links to of evidence to back up your claims or your argument is invalid. So far, I am the only one who has bothered to post any links with evidence. To be honest, I didn't post in this thread just to flame/get into an argument with anyone. I just came here to post why I chose to be a vegan. But obviously you felt incredibly hostile towards it and decided to pull some "Facts" out of your ass.

  • 12.27.2010 10:13 AM PDT

Vegans are pale, frail, unattractive and malnourished looking.
And -blam!- the hypocrit vegiterians who dont eat red meat and just eat birds/fish. You are garbage.

  • 12.27.2010 10:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: XenoAttackin
So I could say, you don't need the internet, T.V, fashion products, cars, big buildings, plains, brand name shoes, books, or any new aged technology or toys. We could all just -blam!- in a cave and eat -blam!- grass.
Actually, we couldn't.
The grass part was an exaggeration on eating vegetables. I thought it was obvious.

  • 12.27.2010 10:16 AM PDT

You must not know 'bout me

Give Eros a try. It's an active Off-Topic forum where everyone feels like friends.

Feel the love

Posted by: ZachAttack2K6
Vegans are pale, frail, unattractive and malnourished looking.

That's not true, either. People can do without meat as long as they have a balanced diet.

  • 12.27.2010 10:18 AM PDT

WildCard Machinima motto: "Make 'em laugh, make them cry, make them remember why."

My motto:"We have all the time in the world, the only obsticles are the ones we put in front of us that stop us..."

relevant

^_^

  • 12.27.2010 10:18 AM PDT

Humans have evolved to this point, why turn back?

  • 12.27.2010 10:23 AM PDT
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Tank beats everything! :D


Posted by: ZachAttack2K6
Vegans are pale, frail, unattractive and malnourished looking.
And -blam!- the hypocrit vegiterians who dont eat red meat and just eat birds/fish. You are garbage.

Cool generalization, bro! You can actually live perfectly vell on a vegetarian/vegan diet if you keep it balanced and bother to research it.

  • 12.27.2010 10:24 AM PDT

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big


Posted by: Gage_1337

Posted by: mahspoonis2big

Posted by: Gage_1337

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Posted by: Gage_1337
But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.
I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves.

Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.

You still haven't provided any links for any proof that we need hto kill animals to keep enviromental balance in check. I'm not going to take your argument seriously until you provide some. Honestly, what proof is there that the world relies on factory farming?
I don't have -blam!-, biased links as you do, because I learned it from my Sustainable Environments professor. The day you find out where to get agenda-free information on the internet for free, let me know.

Also, you misunderstood. I did not once say the world relies on factory farming, though that is probably what you wanted to hear. I am not an advocate of factory farming, actually.

None of my links were biased. I doubt you even bothered to any check them. Of course, I currently do not have a Sustainable Environments professor So I am in need of links to prove whether or not that your claim that "f no one ate meat, the trophic levels on the planet would be utterly destroyed." is valid or not. Hey, I can do the same thing. I can quote someone with an opinion and base it as fact. Watch me...

Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.- Albert Einstein

See I just quoted Albert Einstein. Does that make my argument any more valid? No. You have to post links to of evidence to back up your claims or your argument is invalid. So far, I am the only one who has bothered to post any links with evidence. To be honest, I didn't post in this thread just to flame/get into an argument with anyone. I just came here to post why I chose to be a vegan. But obviously you felt incredibly hostile towards it and decided to pull some "Facts" out of your ass.
Let me put it to you this way:

I know this as fact, and don't really care if some teenage wannabe world-citizen cares enough to actually research it on his own (which clearly you don't). This isn't a research paper, this is an internet forum. I'm not going to go on EBSCOHost to find a reliable article just for you (finding 'proof' or 'sources' for anything using Google, by the way, is pretty lol if you're trying to cite sources).

In essence, what I'm trying to say is, if you care so much about your lifestyle, research the opposing view instead of selectively picking and choosing overly-specific factoids provided by biased sources via a Google search.

  • 12.27.2010 10:30 AM PDT


Posted by: Gage_1337

Posted by: ZachAttack2K6
Vegans are pale, frail, unattractive and malnourished looking.
And -blam!- the hypocrit vegiterians who dont eat red meat and just eat birds/fish. You are garbage.

Cool generalization, bro! You can actually live perfectly vell on a vegetarian/vegan diet if you keep it balanced and bother to research it.


Just saying, you dont see very many muscular, healthy looking vegans, most of the ones ive seen look weak, pale and frail, just personal experience and if you choose to take my opinion seriously thats your problem.

  • 12.27.2010 10:30 AM PDT

The man with a hammer begins to see everything he encounters as a nail

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Let me put it to you this way:

I know this as fact, and don't really care if some teenage wannabe world-citizen cares enough to actually research it on his own (which clearly you don't). This isn't a research paper, this is an internet forum. I'm not going to go on EBSCOHost to find a reliable article just for you (finding 'proof' or 'sources' for anything using Google, by the way, is pretty lol if you're trying to cite sources).

In essence, what I'm trying to say is, if you care so much about your lifestyle, research the opposing view instead of selectively picking and choosing overly-specific factoids provided by biased sources via a Google search.


I wish Bnet had a +rep button.

  • 12.27.2010 10:34 AM PDT