Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
  • Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore
Subject: I just can't justify eating meat anymore

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: mahspoonis2big

Posted by: Gage_1337
As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.
Not only is this post hypocritical in that you rave for a solid run-on paragraph on how you are morally superior despite claiming to not feel that way, you're also wrong.

If no one ate meat, the trophic levels on the planet would be utterly destroyed. Human meat-eating is necessary for environmental balance. Sure, humans eat more meat than they need or should currently, but a world without meat-eating is one that will see devastating crop infertilities and mass animal and human starvation.

Vegans are vegans for purely selfish reasons. There is no 'world-citizen' aspect to it at all; you're doing it for yourself and yourself alone.


The land used for growing crops to feed the animals we eat, could be used effectively to feed humans. With ease. There are more "farmed" animals alive than humans, much more, therefore there would be more crops used to feed these animals than humans. And even if not, there is plenty of crops to feed all the humans in the world, including the starving people anyway. Without this extra land.

  • 12.27.2010 1:30 PM PDT

what about those helpless plants stop acting like animals are the only living things around. people grow fruits and vegetables all year long then massacre every single one of them. after they are sprayed by so many steroids and -blam!- so they don't die before the harvest.

we kill things so we live. almost every living thing does that.

  • 12.27.2010 1:30 PM PDT

Take a step back with me and enjoy a taste of the bittersweet that is our current generation.

I enjoy Battlefield and Call of Duty, and Gears of War.

20 years old, manager of my family's business, aspiring officer of the law.

I love anything political.


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gage_1337
As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.


Flawless argument.

There are quite a bit of nutrients you're missing.

  • 12.27.2010 1:30 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Posted by: Gage_1337
But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.
I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves.

Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.


Bro, he destroyed your argument.

This is proved by the fact rather than countering his argument, you just ignored it, said some things that his article has disproved and then told him that his argument is filled with holes.

  • 12.27.2010 1:33 PM PDT

Here to end the borrowed time you've all been living on.

Posted by: johny mc smooth
what about those helpless plants stop acting like animals are the only living things around. people grow fruits and vegetables all year long then massacre every single one of them. after they are sprayed by so many steroids and -blam!- so they don't die before the harvest.

we kill things so we live. almost every living thing does that.


So much fail.

Plants don't have a brain or a nervous system of any kind. They are not sentient like animals.

  • 12.27.2010 1:34 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: ZachAttack2K6
Vegans are pale, frail, unattractive and malnourished looking.
And -blam!- the hypocrit vegiterians who dont eat red meat and just eat birds/fish. You are garbage.


Those vegetarians often do it purely for health reasons.

And to your stereotype, it's 100% untrue and completely unfounded.

  • 12.27.2010 1:38 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: tacosaladman
Our canines are made for seafood mostly.

Thats why our incisors are so flat.

To crack open shells and other stuff.


Proves my original argument in the OP that we are not designed to eat meat. And to anyone who dismisses it, he provided evidence of this.

  • 12.27.2010 1:39 PM PDT

Cool story, battle bro!

Also, the game.

Lions are beautiful creatures.
Lions eat other animals.

Your logic is flawed.

  • 12.27.2010 1:39 PM PDT

Here to end the borrowed time you've all been living on.

Posted by: SuperBattleBros
Lions are beautiful creatures.
Lions eat other animals.

Your logic is flawed.


Already covered...

Lions do not have higher moral capabilities like us, they don't have a choice because they need to kill to survive, we don't need to and we can decide whether to stoop down to animal instincts or make use of our higher intelligence.

  • 12.27.2010 1:42 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Let me put it to you this way:

I know this as fact, and don't really care if some teenage wannabe world-citizen cares enough to actually research it on his own (which clearly you don't). This isn't a research paper, this is an internet forum. I'm not going to go on EBSCOHost to find a reliable article just for you (finding 'proof' or 'sources' for anything using Google, by the way, is pretty lol if you're trying to cite sources).

In essence, what I'm trying to say is, if you care so much about your lifestyle, research the opposing view instead of selectively picking and choosing overly-specific factoids provided by biased sources via a Google search.


So it's fact because you say it is, and because you're superior.

Nice bro, nice.

  • 12.27.2010 1:42 PM PDT


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gage_1337
As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.


Flawless argument.


have you ever stopped and thought about all those vegetables/fruit you just ate and how they had to go through there life wanting to become a big tree/vine/bush only to be ripped from its home then frozen/cut/cooked alive just to feed you? but yet you talk about how its so unfair to cows and other animals to be breed to be killed and eaten but those fruit and vegetable go through exactly the same thing.

  • 12.27.2010 1:42 PM PDT

Here to end the borrowed time you've all been living on.

Posted by: johny mc smooth
have you ever stopped and thought about all those vegetables/fruit you just ate and how they had to go through there life wanting to become a big tree/vine/bush only to be ripped from its home then frozen/cut/cooked alive just to feed you? but yet you talk about how its so unfair to cows and other animals to be breed to be killed and eaten but those fruit and vegetable go through exactly the same thing.


You best be trollin. They are not sentient and cannot feel pain.

  • 12.27.2010 1:43 PM PDT


Posted by: G O R E25
Posted by: johny mc smooth
what about those helpless plants stop acting like animals are the only living things around. people grow fruits and vegetables all year long then massacre every single one of them. after they are sprayed by so many steroids and -blam!- so they don't die before the harvest.

we kill things so we live. almost every living thing does that.


So much fail.

Plants don't have a brain or a nervous system of any kind. They are not sentient like animals.


but they are living.so your saying just because they don't have the same things a animal has they aren't equal?

  • 12.27.2010 1:46 PM PDT

Cool story, battle bro!

Also, the game.

Posted by: G O R E25
Posted by: SuperBattleBros
Lions are beautiful creatures.
Lions eat other animals.

Your logic is flawed.


Already covered...

Lions do not have higher moral capabilities like us, they don't have a choice because they need to kill to survive, we don't need to and we can decide whether to stoop down to animal instincts or make use of our higher intelligence.


So, by your logic, because we're so much smarter than animals, and that they don't care because they're stupid then it's perfectly fine to eat meat.

  • 12.27.2010 1:46 PM PDT


Posted by: SuperBattleBros
Posted by: G O R E25
Posted by: SuperBattleBros
Lions are beautiful creatures.
Lions eat other animals.

Your logic is flawed.


Already covered...

Lions do not have higher moral capabilities like us, they don't have a choice because they need to kill to survive, we don't need to and we can decide whether to stoop down to animal instincts or make use of our higher intelligence.


So, by your logic, because we're so much smarter than animals, and that they don't care because they're stupid then it's perfectly fine to eat meat.

common human superiority thoughts. im smarter than you so im better than you.

  • 12.27.2010 1:48 PM PDT

Cool story, battle bro!

Also, the game.

Posted by: johny mc smooth

Posted by: SuperBattleBros
Posted by: G O R E25
Posted by: SuperBattleBros
Lions are beautiful creatures.
Lions eat other animals.

Your logic is flawed.


Already covered...

Lions do not have higher moral capabilities like us, they don't have a choice because they need to kill to survive, we don't need to and we can decide whether to stoop down to animal instincts or make use of our higher intelligence.


So, by your logic, because we're so much smarter than animals, and that they don't care because they're stupid then it's perfectly fine to eat meat.

common human superiority thoughts. im smarter than you so im better than you.


Which is the only defending argument against "Animals eat other animals", and is broken.

  • 12.27.2010 1:49 PM PDT

Mors viae ad reverentiam est.

Vincis vel mortis.

I've got damned good reason.

It tastes godly.

  • 12.27.2010 1:51 PM PDT

Don't hope for an easier life, hope to be, a stronger man.

I disagree, from the beggining of the world, instinct is to kill for food, Animals kill each other, People kill each other, the only difference is, men are restrained by morals and law.

Also, you say our bodies are not designed to eat meat, our teeth are sharp in the front for meat, and flat in the back for plants, the reason we have survived for so long is because we can eat plants AND animals, unlike Carnivores and Herbivores.

Let this simmer in your mind for a bit, then offer me a reasonble rebuttle.

[Edited on 12.27.2010 1:55 PM PST]

  • 12.27.2010 1:54 PM PDT

Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Because agriculture alone cannot support the world population. Millions of people rely on meat. They would starve without it. And the species of animals we eat are only alive because we protect them. If we stop eating them, they will all go extinct without our protection. Throwing livestock into the wild would simply give them a slower, more painful death. Also, there are necessary proteins and nutrients humans need from meat. Not everyone can afford alternatives, and there aren't enough of them to go around anyway. And remember that PETA completely exaggerates the pain pain the animals go through and blow it all out of proportion. You don't need to look very hard to see that their campaigns are riddled with logical fallacies and incorrect facts and statistics.

  • 12.27.2010 1:56 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: china
my counter argument to gace_1337(spelling, i know)

Vegetables and fruit also have to refrigirated.

Cattle takes less space, thus allowing more space for things like schools, houses, wildlife preserves, parks, etc.

once again, humans are ONMIVORES, and are supposed to eat meat.

Cattle are fed left-overs from restaraunts, and mostly grain not fit for humans. And the corn-belt does not grow exclusively for cattle.


It doesn't matter, there is enough vegetables being produced in the world currently to support every single human, without meat. There are food mountains and lakes produced by EU farmers, and they can't use the food because of distribution and it will completely disturb the economies.

It's a common myth there isn't enough food in the world.

And to the omnivore argument, it's been proven those canines are for fish, not for raw meat (which meat eaters have absolutely no problem eating). Raw meat is almost inedible to humans, they have to cook it to be able to eat it.

Any thing designed to eat meat, would be able to eat real meat, don't you think?

And how can you be supposed to eat something which is dangerously unhealthy. It has worse effects than smoking or drinking for causing diseases. Heart diseases and cancers are not the result of something you're supposed to eat.

  • 12.27.2010 1:59 PM PDT

The man with a hammer begins to see everything he encounters as a nail


Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Posted by: Gage_1337
But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.
I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves.

Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.


Bro, he destroyed your argument.

This is proved by the fact rather than countering his argument, you just ignored it, said some things that his article has disproved and then told him that his argument is filled with holes.


This is rich considering you've been doing that for c. 80 pages.

[Edited on 12.27.2010 2:01 PM PST]

  • 12.27.2010 2:00 PM PDT

How is inhumane? How do you think we ate before we became civilized?



Dumbass, it's the way of life for us. It's called the "food cycle" get it?

  • 12.27.2010 2:03 PM PDT


Posted by: o S IE C IR E T

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: Gage_1337
As a Vegan, my Veganism isn't about trying to feel morally superior to people. It is about trying my best to abstain myself from cruelty and it's about trying to live as lightly on the Earth as possible. One of the reasons I am a vegan is because I abhor all forms of unecessary killing. Killing for mercy, killing in self-defence and killing for survival are acceptable in my opinion. I personally have no problem with a starving man eating meat because the man would likely die if he didn't and is only killing for survival which is a necessary form of killing. However, massively breeding billions of animals to slaughter in-order to feed people living in economically developed locations like Britain and the USA is absolutely not necessary because there is no nutrient in meat that is missing in a vegetarian diet. Necessary killing may be tragic, but I find killing simply for amusement, taste and small convenience vile and abhorrent. That is why I am a vegan.


Flawless argument.

There are quite a bit of nutrients you're missing.

A lot of nutrients.

  • 12.27.2010 2:10 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: Nick0matic

Posted by: XII CIUTCH IIX
Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Posted by: Gage_1337
But if you really have some links to prove otherwise. Show me.
I do, in that animals would exist on their own anyway, and in that many livestock eat plants humans do not find fit for consumption, such as grass, or leaves.

Honestly there are so many holes in these arguments a logical person doesn't even need to try. But you can keep going if you want, though.


Bro, he destroyed your argument.

This is proved by the fact rather than countering his argument, you just ignored it, said some things that his article has disproved and then told him that his argument is filled with holes.


This is rich considering you've been doing that for c. 80 pages.


I've provided evidence for things, you'd know that if you had checked through the thread. If it's too long, you can't post this.

  • 12.27.2010 2:11 PM PDT

I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. ~ Mark Twain

Posted by: johny mc smooth

Posted by: G O R E25
Posted by: johny mc smooth
what about those helpless plants stop acting like animals are the only living things around. people grow fruits and vegetables all year long then massacre every single one of them. after they are sprayed by so many steroids and -blam!- so they don't die before the harvest.

we kill things so we live. almost every living thing does that.


So much fail.

Plants don't have a brain or a nervous system of any kind. They are not sentient like animals.


but they are living.so your saying just because they don't have the same things a animal has they aren't equal?


Yes, specifically.

  • 12.27.2010 2:13 PM PDT