Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Datapad AIs and their link to 'ancient humanity' [Version 1.0]
  • Subject: Datapad AIs and their link to 'ancient humanity' [Version 1.0]
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: Datapad AIs and their link to 'ancient humanity' [Version 1.0]


Posted by: modest too

Also, where is this committee located? As an AI can only exist in a electronic unit of some sort (computer or housing case). Where were they during the time Humans did not have technology? Perhaps in a splispace station? If so thats probably where they still are.


Yeah. Where are these AI that they have remained hidden yet are able to interface with humans easily (unless they are slipspace AI. That may give them the advantage of not being restricted by space) and how did they end u pon Reach. It also seems that some guy found out about them, and went crazy. If it was that easy to find them, why haven't we found them yet?

Also, why, if humans and forerunner were so genetically close, would they age a war against each other? It's proably religious or racial thing. (I doubt racism between them, because hyper-advanced humans probably wouldn't have that societal problem)

[Edited on 01.01.2011 2:30 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 2:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The way Bornstellar thinks about the H-F war doesn't seem to support that theory, he seems like he does not want to mention it not due to embarrassment (winning in such a way would make one feel... less than happy at the solution) but rather because of the victory itself (defeating the Humans quite thoroughly). But thats just what his reactions imprinted on me. Also, the Forerunners would have lost a massive chunk of population, which probably would have been mentioned somewhere, but maybe not.

However, Humans could have better AI technology, while Forerunner had superior interstellar ships. Thus it's not a matter of who is more technologically advanced, but who is more technologically advanced in the necessary field to deal with another newly discovered interstellar species.

Which would most probably be the Forerunners as they achieved that state before us and have had more time to refine their technologies.

  • 01.01.2011 2:30 PM PDT

- Dragon Ball/Z/GT and it's merchandise are awesome.
- All "abriged" parodies are hilarious.
- Humanity, as a whole, is stupid.
- I have asperger's syndrome
- This is the best used 20 seconds of your life
- Official helper to the Halo: Reach - The Armor You'll Be Wearing This Fall! Thread

Posted by: WEE MAN MJJC

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: WEE MAN MJJC
Now before we carry on, let's jump back 100,000 years or so in the fiction. As recently revealed, humanity was once an interstellar race who colonised multiple worlds, until we got into a war with the Forerunners for some unknown reason and were devolved and exiled to Earth.
WTF when was this decided?


the first two chapters of cryptum.

So what about the past?

Ok so how come all this isnt on halopedia?


It is.

You must be using the old adress, most of us editors and all the admins moved to http://www.halopedian.com/Main_Page

If you type in halo wiki in google though, it still gives you the old adress.

  • 01.01.2011 2:30 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Gruntpocalypto

Yeah. Where are these AI that they have remained hidden yet are able to interface with humans easily (unless they are slipspace AI. That may give them the advantage of not being restricted by space) and how did they end u pon Reach. It also seems that some guy found out about them, and went crazy. If it was that easy to find them, why haven't we found them yet?


I'm pretty sure one of the AI's reversed the creation process, implanting its intelligence into a Human brain, which had restrictions, thus the AI started rampancy in a Human form....Insanity. In order to place these data pads around to educate the Human race. Big sacrifice.

  • 01.01.2011 2:33 PM PDT

I thought that they didn't want humans to know about their operations though? Why would they spread datapads?

  • 01.01.2011 2:35 PM PDT

- Dragon Ball/Z/GT and it's merchandise are awesome.
- All "abriged" parodies are hilarious.
- Humanity, as a whole, is stupid.
- I have asperger's syndrome
- This is the best used 20 seconds of your life
- Official helper to the Halo: Reach - The Armor You'll Be Wearing This Fall! Thread

Posted by: modest too
Posted by: Gruntpocalypto

Yeah. Where are these AI that they have remained hidden yet are able to interface with humans easily (unless they are slipspace AI. That may give them the advantage of not being restricted by space) and how did they end u pon Reach. It also seems that some guy found out about them, and went crazy. If it was that easy to find them, why haven't we found them yet?


I'm pretty sure one of the AI's reversed the creation process, implanting its intelligence into a Human brain, which had restrictions, thus the AI started rampancy in a Human form....Insanity. In order to place these data pads around to educate the Human race. Big sacrifice.


Current idea is that they were reffering to cortana linking up with john, the date of the entry matches up with the first time it happened.

  • 01.01.2011 2:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Current idea is that they were reffering to cortana linking up with john, the date of the entry matches up with the first time it happened.

Does this insinuate Chief dropped the Data pads, and that Cortana was on the committee?

-Wait, that can't be because Cortana doesn't link up with chief until Halo:CE. Cortana is either in transit to PoA, or Chief is frozen until that point.- (Edit)

[Edited on 01.01.2011 2:42 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 2:41 PM PDT


Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
Posted by: modest too
Posted by: Gruntpocalypto

Yeah. Where are these AI that they have remained hidden yet are able to interface with humans easily (unless they are slipspace AI. That may give them the advantage of not being restricted by space) and how did they end u pon Reach. It also seems that some guy found out about them, and went crazy. If it was that easy to find them, why haven't we found them yet?


I'm pretty sure one of the AI's reversed the creation process, implanting its intelligence into a Human brain, which had restrictions, thus the AI started rampancy in a Human form....Insanity. In order to place these data pads around to educate the Human race. Big sacrifice.


Current idea is that they were reffering to cortana linking up with john, the date of the entry matches up with the first time it happened.

Yeah, I find it highly likely that another human discovered the AI, but wasn't paid any attention to, and eventually went mad because no one would belive him and probably thought he was Schizophrenic or something. He probably spread the datapads in some odd attempt to get someone to listen to them.


I don't think that Cortana would be on the committee if this theory is right. she's just another Smart AI. maybe evena tool of the Committee to aid the humans. Cortana was just lucky enough to accompany Six off of Reach, then went to Halo. She seems like a puppet in the use of Pre-Devolution AI to give the Humans a boost in the war.

[Edited on 01.01.2011 2:43 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 2:41 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Also, who ever dropped the pads must have known that Noble Six would collect them and known about his missions. As all the data pads are found only on routes he takes. Therefore this data must have been meant for Six. But the only way that would make sense is if he could pass it on to some one who could use it. Now who could that be?

Oh yeah...Cortana. The single greatest AI made by UNSC Humans, and the one that plays a crucial role in the events of Halo? Did the committee want her to have access to these files?

  • 01.01.2011 2:45 PM PDT

Perhaps this is the purpose for telling Reach's story? All of the Halo stories advance the much broader, greater story forward with each installment, if by hints and clues, or hidden easter eggs, or even directly, but Reach never seemed to do that. Until now.

Maybe the story of Reach was just a back drop to explain the existence of these AIs without gloriously annoucing them?

Keeping it secret, as they always have been...

And what better way to do that then on the planet these alleged "Ancient Human" AIs started the SPARTAN program, and at the same time all of their secrets burn with it.

Somebody wanted Noble 6 to find this info, like you
Posted by: modest too


said. But perhaps this was just how it begins. All of the datapads burned with Reach, and Noble 6 is dead.

But what about Jun? Despite the Adjuncts in Fall of Reach's reissue, hasn't it been confirmed that was somebody else? That Jun is alive?

I think Jun will have a much greater part in the upcoming events. Being one of the few Reach survivors, and the only person alive (officially) who knew 6, I think the person who left 6 these datapads might try to do the same with Jun.

I don't know, just throwing out ideas. Halo gets me thinking like nothing else does, and I like it.

  • 01.01.2011 3:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I don't know, just throwing out ideas. Halo gets me thinking like nothing else does, and I like it.


I know what you mean!

  • 01.01.2011 3:12 PM PDT


Posted by: modest too
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I don't know, just throwing out ideas. Halo gets me thinking like nothing else does, and I like it.


I know what you mean!


:D

Also of note: the first datapad you can possibly get is on Winter Contingency. You have to kill a spec-ops Elite to retrieve it.

Don't you think its a bit odd that the spec-ops Elite happened to have the datapad with humanity's best kept secret on it? One even humanity didn't know about?

I believe there was a theory on this site a while back talking about Medicant Bias' reconstruction. I think it was called the "Great Galactic Scavenger Hunt" or something like that.

One aspect of that theory stated The Reach Crystal had a part of Bias imprinted on it, much in the same way the UNSC uses crystal storage for their own AIs. Though it was destroyed, part of the crystal was returned to the Prophet of Truth.

It goes on to say Truth was actually helping Medicant Bias reconstruct himself aboard the Keyship, as he was broken and scattered by his war with Offensive 100,000 years prior.

Perhaps Medicant and this AI committee are related somehow? There had to be some insentive for that spec-ops Elite to be trying to make off with information regarding this AI committee. Assuming he was an Ossoona (black ops Covenant angents sent into enemy territory to gather intelligence) he may have had orders to investigate this Committee of Minds Medicant Bias may or may not have informed Truth about.

Again, just spitting out thoughts, but is there really any reason as to why a Special Operations Angent would try to make off with information as valuable as that, and not have been looking for it?

  • 01.01.2011 3:30 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Could be as simple as 'Oh hey! A Data pad!' (Kinda like what we all thought) 'I'll take it back to base, maybe it's important.'

Then again it could be Mendicate Bias behind the scenes trying to fix his first mistake. Part of him is in that crystal, part on the Keyship, Part was following Master Chief.

The most important part about all of that, is that Offensive Bias has Mendicate Bias imprisoned somewhere!

Might not seem to be most important but Bungie likes patterns.
The one I'm alluding to is Roland and the Sword.
The third sword (and supposably the main AI for Bungies next IP) is Joyeuse, and Joyeuse was lost in a battle (Mendicate to the Flood), imprisoned or placed in a treasury, and then returned by an unknown knight (Bungie likes unknown protagonists).
Coincidence: Probably. Wrong forum anyways.
Still thought it was interesting.
If Mendicate is trying to turn good and become a source of jot for the Human race, that is.

  • 01.01.2011 3:43 PM PDT

Just throwing something out there, it is called the committee, so why does it have to be only one race's AIs? Perhaps they are both ancient humanity's and forerunner's AIs, with one race's being the majority and the other the minority.

  • 01.01.2011 3:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: the n00b pwner
Just throwing something out there, it is called the committee, so why does it have to be only one race's AIs? Perhaps they are both ancient humanity's and forerunner's AIs, with one race's being the majority and the other the minority.


Now THAT is an interesting thought indeed... Which would explain why the two sides think so differently in terms of survival of individuals...

That would mean that the committee was created prior-to the H-F war, with the purpose of protecting Humanity or perhaps life....Can some one check if both Minority and Majority claim they are protecting their creators, or if just one side does.

[Edited on 01.01.2011 3:55 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 3:53 PM PDT


Posted by: modest too
Could be as simple as 'Oh hey! A Data pad!' (Kinda like what we all thought) 'I'll take it back to base, maybe it's important.'



If there is anything I learned about going through the Halo story, it is that not all is as it seems. There is a reason for everything, nothing is as simple as it appears.

Bungie could have come up with any number of ways of introducing the very first datpad you can get, yet they chose to put a spec-ops Elite in that seemed to be looking for something, and is almost impossible to kill in time (I JUST killed him for my first time now).

There is more to this....



[Edited on 01.01.2011 4:02 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 3:55 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

That is true (about no randomness in Bungies Universe).

The Elite is leaving the scene of the broken warthog, we can assume that the Covies were the cause, which is why the Elite is there.

But why the Data Pad? Any one know what unit the warthog belonged to?

  • 01.01.2011 3:58 PM PDT

^^^^^^^

indeed, a very interesting concept. A thought occured to me: perhaps the Committee of Minds are the Mantle holders, dedicated to protecting humanity until they are ready to take up the responsibility of the Mantle?

Because we sure as hell were in no position to protect the universe 100,000 years ago.

What garuntee did the Forerunners have that we wouldn't kill ourselves out, or get killed out, before passing down the Mantle to the next generation, or completing our time with it?

they already realize we are "a naturally violent race".

The only logical way to do it would be to enact a failsafe, a watchful group of eyes that observe humanity grow and present them with this challenge when we are ready. As I said, the Forerunners had left, presumably to follow the Precursors. I highly doubt, in all their wisdom, they let us go without help...

And what better way to test our ability to combat evil--to prove our worth--then to throw the Covenant at us, like they did?

[Edited on 01.01.2011 4:03 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 4:02 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I'm liking this train of thought, very interesting concepts.

But I found a few discrepancies.

1) Why would they not give this committee knowledge of the Flood? That's a MASSIVE mistake if intentional. 'Alright were going to make sure this race has the knowledge necessary to uphold life. But we won't tell them about this Parasite capable of killing them off before they can in turn hand off the Mantle? All agree? Alright suck it Humanity.'

2) The Forerunners wouldn't have known of the Covies because They fired off the rings killing all sentient life except Humanity (Me thinks anyways), so the test of worth part I find unlikely.

3) That damn Librarian is so much more important then we think, if this is the case.

[Edited on 01.01.2011 4:08 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 4:08 PM PDT


Posted by: modest too
I'm liking this train of thought, very interesting concepts.

But I found a few discrepancies.

1) Why would they not give this committee knowledge of the Flood? That's a MASSIVE mistake if intentional. 'Alright were going to make sure this race has the knowledge necessary to uphold life. But we won't tell them about this Parasite capable of killing them off before they can in turn hand off the Mantle? All agree? Alright suck it Humanity.'

2) The Forerunners wouldn't have known of the Covies because They fired off the rings killing all sentient life except Humanity (Me thinks anyways), so the test of worth part I find unlikely.

3) That damn Librarian is so much more important then we think, if this is the case.


Of course, no theory is perfect, especially when it was thought up in five minutes.

1) The Flood strike me as being THE enemy of the universe. Its as if they were THE opposite to the Mantle of Life. The Mantle Holders protect life, the Flood devour it (under the guise of perfection of course, making a bit of a grey area). But to this, I have no answer. But nothing is impossible. A month ago, if I was to say we fought a war with the Forerunners and got our asses royally kicked, everyone would think I'm crazy. But nowadays, in Halo, anything is a possibility.

And as I said, no theory is perfect first time out. It took Edison 100+ tries to find a filament for a light bulb that worked.

2) They did not kill off the Covenant races. All races in the Covenant were protected, except for the Hunters, who are the only sentient race unaffected by either the Flood or Halo as they have no nervous system.

The Librarian knew of EVERY race in the galaxy; that was her job. Assuming Wolverfrog is correct in saying the AIs appear to be akin to gods, it can be say the AIs are a distributed network throughout the galaxy. Thus, they knew of the Covenant, as they appear to have in the first place regarding the one who "called out to them."

3) Considering the "gias" or whatever it was that she apparently imposed upon us, I feel the Librarian has some secrets of her own that we don't know yet, such as the very strong possibility the gias was the roots of the genetic perfections needed for the SPARTAN program.

Also of note, I'm playing Reach right now and just read in datapad 1 something that supports my theory on "protecting us until we are ready"

"And, as this committee has long maintained, who else but this Assembly will save our creators from themselves?"

[Edited on 01.01.2011 4:27 PM PST]

  • 01.01.2011 4:22 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

[quote]Posted by: modest too
3) Considering the "gias" or whatever it was that she apparently imposed upon us, I feel the Librarian has some secrets of her own that we don't know yet, such as the very strong possibility the gias was the roots of the genetic perfections needed for the SPARTAN program.


I'm getting the feeling that the AI committee has more to do with everything than we know. Like Palpatine from SW. He plotted his own rise to power, then orchestrated a war, then formed his own Empire. When the Empire failed, he already had several clones and rebuilt it again and again.

I may be mistaken, but didn't the AI Committee nudge the humans and Covenant into a war? I see lots of comparisons.

  • 01.01.2011 4:35 PM PDT


Posted by: Gruntpocalypto

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

[quote]Posted by: modest too
3) Considering the "gias" or whatever it was that she apparently imposed upon us, I feel the Librarian has some secrets of her own that we don't know yet, such as the very strong possibility the gias was the roots of the genetic perfections needed for the SPARTAN program.


I'm getting the feeling that the AI committee has more to do with everything than we know. Like Palpatine from SW. He plotted his own rise to power, then orchestrated a war, then formed his own Empire. When the Empire failed, he already had several clones and rebuilt it again and again.

I may be mistaken, but didn't the AI Committee nudge the humans and Covenant into a war? I see lots of comparisons.


yes, the AIs did. Well, one of them did. The rest seemed pretty pissed off at the one who did it. Apparently the AI "called out to them."

As the ship that made First Contact with the Covenant ship was computer controlled with no human crew, it would have been very easy for the AI to initiate a First Contact.

  • 01.01.2011 4:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Likely the purpose of the war was to place Humanity in a position where it could defeat (or at least subdue) the Flood. Lets face it, the Covies would have died or blown the rings.

Also, if the AI's are distributed around the galaxy, they would probably know more of the Flood. That still remains a large mystery to me. It implies the AI's were created prior to the discovery of the Flood (Is the flood extragalactic?). And then learned nothing of the Flood. This means some one made these AI's as a Failsafe. Not for Humanity but for the Forerunners. Created but isolated until the Rings fired.

They still refer to Humans as their creators.

My theory is as such: The Humans, knowing their inevitable defeat to the Forerunners, created this AI committee, which was hidden on Earth. And just before the Didact Fired the rings, the Librarian found this committee. Remember how the Librarian claims there is something special about Humanity? At first I thought it was some characteristic we had related to the Precursors, but the Forerunners would have learned that at some point prior to, during or after the war. This secret collection of meta-stable AI's was probably something the Forerunners had never seen. The Librarian then went to lengths to protect them from the Flood and Rings. Thus saving our race to continue the sequence of Events we now know.

  • 01.01.2011 4:49 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Everybody loves Grunts!

I think the Flood is an unknown in this. If the AI had known about them, then they would have taken steps to strengthen humanity against the Flood. I'm assuming the H-F war takes places before the F-F War. If the AI were that ancient, maybe they weren't programmed with knowledge of the Flood, and after the Forerunner fired the rings, the Flood became dormant. This may explain why the AI seemingly know nothing of the Flood, and experience it for the first time with the Halo Incident.

That also brings up the question: If they were created with knowledge of the Forerunner, why didn't they know about the Flood that would eventually be stored on the rings and decimate the Forerunner race? What happened that caused them to not be present during the F-F war? (all of this is presuming that they don't know anythnig related to the Flood. I'm pretty sure it hasn't been stated yet, but they make no mention of them in the datapads)

  • 01.01.2011 6:45 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: modest too
1) In order for that theory to be true, there must be a continual renewal of AI's for the committee, and if they are human AI's, how would humans NOT notice all these disappearing AI's?

There's no need for them to completely leave their current position to take part in the committee. We have the internet now that allows computers to interact with eachother over long distances. 500 years in the there will be communication networks that allow the AI's to communicate and have their meetings without completely shirking their duties.


2) They would be required to be Smart AI's, as Dumb AI's couldn't simply change their function to the sustainability of the Human race. And Smart AI's are very potent entities, and are closely monitored. Not to mention hard to creates (or at least difficult/complicated), thus increasing the need to monitor them.
The answer to your question lies in the name of the AI's that you say would be necessary to do these things, "SMART AI's". Smart AI's are the most advanced pieces of technology in the UNSC if they want to modify whatever records the want or cover their tracks it can be easily done. As is shown in the data pads they can easily cover their tracks and obfuscate the committee's existence.

3) These AI's seem to have been in this committee for longer than Smart AI's have been around. The variety and complexity of their task, again, indicates they simply must be Smart AI's.
I don't think it necessarily had to be started by smart AI's it could have been started by a normal military AI who took it's duty of protecting humanity and the UNSC to the next level by starting the committee because it saw itself and it's fellow AI's as more equipped than it's human creators to protect the species.

  • 01.01.2011 6:53 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4