Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: If you've finished Cryptum like me, come here. (MAJOR SPOIL)
  • Subject: If you've finished Cryptum like me, come here. (MAJOR SPOIL)
Subject: If you've finished Cryptum like me, come here. (MAJOR SPOIL)

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: DorkLord54
So, the Precursors created the Flood out of vengeance, transported it out of galaxy, and then it infected humanity first who was the only race along with the Prophets to find a cure?


That was never stated in the book...Someone just decided to make a theory of it.

  • 01.06.2011 3:58 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

___________(''''''''| '''''''|''' ')_||___________
| ------------____.`======.-.~:______/___|=============[_]
|_|||___/ /__/~'''|_|_|_|''(0)-------------<

Posted by: XxZ SxX

just a side note, did anyone else notice the "subtitle" under the Bungie Universe forum title makes more sense now because of the whole "geas" concept?


Whoa I never noticed that! You are so right, we now know why some humans, including John 117, can use and partially understand Forerunner tech. It's because of the "geas" Great catch!

  • 01.06.2011 4:04 PM PDT

I tell you, we're here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: DorkLord54
So, the Precursors created the Flood out of vengeance, transported it out of galaxy, and then it infected humanity first who was the only race along with the Prophets to find a cure?


That was never stated in the book...Someone just decided to make a theory of it.


:)

but that "theory" was completely based off of quotes stated in the book. I wouldn't call it a theory as much as putting together some stuff from the book supporting an "implied" fact the author made almost obvious.

  • 01.06.2011 4:38 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: XxZ SxX

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: DorkLord54
So, the Precursors created the Flood out of vengeance, transported it out of galaxy, and then it infected humanity first who was the only race along with the Prophets to find a cure?


That was never stated in the book...Someone just decided to make a theory of it.


:)

but that "theory" was completely based off of quotes stated in the book. I wouldn't call it a theory as much as putting together some stuff from the book supporting an "implied" fact the author made almost obvious.
Implications are just that. They aren't proof of anything they are subtle hints at what the future might hold. Six months ago everyone believed that humanity had been technologically inferior to the Forerunner throughout the entirety of their existence; because that was what was implied throughout the series. We now know that to be wrong. Halo has never been as clear cut as people in this thread (and indeed this forum) like to make it out to be. If you want to make theories about your ideas; that's your right, but telling people that "this is what the book explicitly is stating" when it does not such thing; well, that's what I have a problem with.

They only person to address my counterclaims as to why I think the captive isn't the Gravemind was roberto who claimed the terminals could no longer be trusted as sources, and then proceeded to use the terminals as evidence for his suppositions. While it seems clear that there is a connection between the captive and the Flood; thats really the only certainty we know in that regard.

Again, I encourage you all to suspend judgement and stop spreading misinformation until the facts become clear.

[Edited on 01.06.2011 4:58 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2011 4:52 PM PDT

I tell you, we're here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.

I did address your counter-claims, without using any evidence from the terminals, though i easily could have.

This is sci-fi. Nothing is set in stone. Ever. It's like the "It was all a dream" concept, except even more flexible. Since they created the universe almost from scratch, they could literally say absolutely anything.

Thing is, taking things from multiple canon(ish) sources and hypothesizing is fun. If you aren't interested in that, what are you even doing in the Universe forum?

I do find it funny that you try to completely ignore my evidence by quoting another statement, and pretending my evidence doesn't exist.

[Edited on 01.06.2011 4:59 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2011 4:58 PM PDT

I would say that the time difference is a bit hard to grasp. In the big picture, and also in current events. The time between when Bornstellar got back home and the trial is deceptively short, but we're told that it is quite the amount of time, with only a few scenes to flesh it out...

  • 01.06.2011 5:04 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: XxZ SxX
I did address your counter-claims, without using any evidence from the terminals, though i easily could have.

This is sci-fi. Nothing is set in stone. Ever. It's like the "It was all a dream" concept, except even more flexible. Since they created the universe almost from scratch, they could literally say absolutely anything.

No, you didn't address any of my claims. You spouted quotes at me, from a book I already read (none of which explicitly stated that the captive was the Gravemind) and then essentially said "See?".

The terminals state Mendicant was created specifically to study and then engage the Gravemind. Again, from Terminal Three (the text of which is in my prior post) states the Forerunner knew of the existence of the Gravemind before Mendicant was even created (and thus before he ever had any interactions with the captive). How can the captive been the Gravemind if the Gravemind existed (in fact it said the parasite formed the Gravemind) while the captive was still imprisoned?


Thing is, taking things from multiple canon(ish) sources and hypothesizing is fun. If you aren't interested in that, what are you even doing in the Universe forum?You are not the final arbiter for what is allowed in this forum and who gets to be here. Don't EVER make the assumption that you are. This forum is for discussing canon, which we are doing. Also your clearly evident GTFO (no matter how refined you made it) just makes you look like a jackass.

[Edited on 01.06.2011 5:24 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2011 5:09 PM PDT

I tell you, we're here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.

Would you mind reading the last quote I included, as far as stating the gravemind is (at least in part, a large part) the captive?

This is a thread about Cryptum, so assuming that gets higher priority as far as canon, and also because its newer, Mendicant Bias was created for the purpose of maintaining the Halos. As far as a gravemind being created, have you ever read the little black book that came with the halo 3 limited/legendary editions? a direct quote from the entry on "Gravemind":

A Gravemind--like the proto-gravemind that gave rise to it-- is the fusion of pure Flood Super Cells and the evolved complex neurosystem of one or more sentient entities.

I never said that the Captive was solely the Gravemind, as by definition the Gravemind is a collective entity, with all the knowledge of those it's Flood have infected. This is shown in Halo 2, when he pulls up a Prophet and an Oracle, having them say what he already knows so it is more believeable to Arby and MC, respectively.

What I'm saying is that the Captive, if not taking control of the Gravemind, would be its "centerpiece" sentient entity, seeing as it is more advanced and knowledgeable than any other species, as it either s a Precursor, or has live since their time and retained their knowledge.

I'm perfectly aware i don't decide what is allowed in this forum, and I wasn't assuming I was. I was stating a personal opinion, nothing more. From what I've seen in this thread, it has been less a "discussion" of canon and more of you playing devil's advocate to most of the similar theories using less-recent canon.

I understand your want to discredit me, and seeing as you can't with my actual theory that opposes your own, you are trying to other ways. It's common politics. Whoever said I wasn't a jackass? Whoever said you weren't a jackass? Who said anyone here wasn't a jackass? Nobody. Because it's completely irrelevant to what we're actually discussing. I could be a horribly egocentric jackass, and it still has no relevancy to our discussion of canon.

  • 01.06.2011 5:42 PM PDT


Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: XxZ SxX

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: DorkLord54
So, the Precursors created the Flood out of vengeance, transported it out of galaxy, and then it infected humanity first who was the only race along with the Prophets to find a cure?


That was never stated in the book...Someone just decided to make a theory of it.


:)

but that "theory" was completely based off of quotes stated in the book. I wouldn't call it a theory as much as putting together some stuff from the book supporting an "implied" fact the author made almost obvious.
Implications are just that. They aren't proof of anything they are subtle hints at what the future might hold. Six months ago everyone believed that humanity had been technologically inferior to the Forerunner throughout the entirety of their existence; because that was what was implied throughout the series. We now know that to be wrong. Halo has never been as clear cut as people in this thread (and indeed this forum) like to make it out to be. If you want to make theories about your ideas; that's your right, but telling people that "this is what the book explicitly is stating" when it does not such thing; well, that's what I have a problem with.

They only person to address my counterclaims as to why I think the captive isn't the Gravemind was roberto who claimed the terminals could no longer be trusted as sources, and then proceeded to use the terminals as evidence for his suppositions. While it seems clear that there is a connection between the captive and the Flood; thats really the only certainty we know in that regard.

Again, I encourage you all to suspend judgement and stop spreading misinformation until the facts become clear.


I meant to say the modern version of the Forerunner story (like Terminals) is warped, that the terminals are still useful, but need to be taken with a grain of salt.

For example: The Librarian and Didact are still lovers are they not?

Medicant Bias still spent 43 years with [someone] and then betrayed the Forerunners, did he not?

Did Medicant spend 43 years with anyone else AND 43 years with the Mind? If so, that's just plain stupid; it'd make no sense and be too convenient to introduce a new character. Also if so, why was he working for the Flood?

I'm not saying this IS and always WILL be the case, I'm merely saying the only logical conclusion based on the evidence we currently have is that the Captive is or becomes the Gravemind.

We don't know who/what the Captive is for sure, but the evidence is there that he at least BECOMES the Mind that we all know and hate.

Like I said, what are the odds of Medicant vanishing and reermiging hating the Forerunners after 43 years of talking with a mysterious entity who convinces him to hate the Forerunners and side with the Flood...

...Twice?

[Edited on 01.06.2011 6:34 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2011 6:27 PM PDT

I tell you, we're here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.

in other news, did anyone else notice that at one point in the book it says "only one halo made it through the portal to the ark" or something like that, and it was broken and not likely to be repaired, and there were already 6 halos at the ark, that weren't at the forerunner capitol.

Anyone else think these are the 7 in MC's time and the other 11 that were at the capitol were all destroyed?

  • 01.06.2011 6:33 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

As the saying goes, don't count your chickens before they hatch...

Edit:

And in other news in regards to this post


Posted by: XxZ SxX
in other news, did anyone else notice that at one point in the book it says "only one halo made it through the portal to the ark" or something like that, and it was broken and not likely to be repaired, and there were already 6 halos at the ark, that weren't at the forerunner capitol.

Anyone else think these are the 7 in MC's time and the other 11 that were at the capitol were all destroyed?


More likely than not yes, but there's still two more books to go and there's no telling what can happen in those two books that could change that. For example all the Halos might have been destroyed over the course of this trilogy, and the Ark merely rebuilt them through automation somehow. We already know that the Ark rebuilt Alpha Halo on its own and that all 7 were fully functional by the time of the games, so something happened that changed the stance of not repairing, rebuilding, maintaining Halos.

[Edited on 01.06.2011 6:46 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2011 6:35 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

I read the book in a few hours, I devoured it. It took me many hours to understand and process this information. I'm still digesting it.

Cryptum was written by Greg Bear after Frankie suggested a list of names, Greg Bear was the archtype Frankie wanted and luckily, the other guy talked to Greg.
Greg has had a pleasure writing Cryptum and has had a very interesting writing process. He has a lot of liberties in writing the "Hard Sci-Fi" since we don't know a lot about them. But he's been saved from going into corners by the elements already in the story. His son is a Halo fan and Greg enjoys the Halo Universe. Eric Nylund has his field in the human-covenant war whereas Greb Bear has his field in the "Hard Sci-Fi", hence the forerunners.

Halo Cryptum takes some time to digest, after that, you will (I atleast) find it very interessting.

I like it how some of my theories were partially correct. I predicted that Bornstellar was the Didact. I was partially right.

There are many words in Halo Cryptum that are a mistery and will slowly be explained. The Glossary is updated daily (as of now) and contains definitions of many words found in the book. Just digest it...
The halo forums are that way ---> Here

[Edited on 01.06.2011 6:39 PM PST]

  • 01.06.2011 6:37 PM PDT


Posted by: XxZ SxX
in other news, did anyone else notice that at one point in the book it says "only one halo made it through the portal to the ark" or something like that, and it was broken and not likely to be repaired, and there were already 6 halos at the ark, that weren't at the forerunner capitol.

Anyone else think these are the 7 in MC's time and the other 11 that were at the capitol were all destroyed?


Just a hunch, but 5 bucks says the one who made it through was either .04 or .05.

Most possibly 05, that way Penitant Tangent still has information regarding Medicant's fall (and isn't Tangent still alive, or at least not confirmed dead?)

  • 01.06.2011 6:37 PM PDT

I tell you, we're here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.

on halo3 when ur getting the IWHBYD skull, the middle (4th) one was the one that was all red and "broken" looking, wasnt it?

  • 01.06.2011 6:40 PM PDT

Valiant men have died here so we don't have to, so let's get the hell out.

Yes one is broken, that's the one that Master Cheif blew up in Halo CE, Installation 04. At that point in the timeline only six halos were ready to fire. I think the six that were floating around the Ark when Bornstellar/Didact woke up are the ones which are used to kill the Flood, I've got a hunch that the Halo which MB and the Captive are on is 05. I could be wrong, but it seems like what should happen.

  • 01.06.2011 9:57 PM PDT

so in the book i believe they said that the humans were at least a couple hundred years old. any theories as to why we only live to about a 100 now?

  • 01.06.2011 10:57 PM PDT

This is profile number 4

actually been a member of Bungie.net since March-April 2004

... I have a tendency to lose my passwords...

Posted by: Dont Be Fat x
so in the book i believe they said that the humans were at least a couple hundred years old. any theories as to why we only live to about a 100 now?


Riser said he was about that old but he's a Florian. Chaka and his people don't live that long I don't think. And I believe that its Chaka's people that are our ancestors.

  • 01.06.2011 11:02 PM PDT

WHAT IFFFFFFFFFFF the Precursers reduced themselves to this powder, after being defeated by the Forerunners, then sent this powder off in these ancient ships, only to have them return one day and exact vengeance, but the super-ancient Forerunners knew something was up, and locked the Precurser captive in his cage-bubble until he gave them an answer about their plans, but something happened to them (maybe when they were experimenting on the stars and almost wiped out the entire Forerunner ecumen) and those who had any information about the captive were destroyed.
SOOOOOOOOO, The Flood are actually degraded Precurser genes that were reduced to that powder, and were to be used as a bio-weapon.

[Edited on 01.07.2011 12:43 AM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 12:38 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

One day... I am gonna grow wings... A chemical reaction... Hysterical and useless... hystecial and let down and hanging around... crushed like a bug in the ground.

Wait what... I don't even...

I return from my long absense from here and...

Holy -blam!-AMANJARO!



EDIT:
So the mantle wasn't a physical thing but a belief, a religion of sorts.

[Edited on 01.07.2011 2:30 AM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 2:26 AM PDT

just finished.
OK, so huge twists all around with this book lol
Human-Forerunner war
Human-Flood war
Forerunner-Precursor war
The precursor they kept as a prisoner was very interesting. From his description he sounds like a sea scorpion. Up right like a man, 4 arms on the torso, 2 legs, a scorpion like face with 4 eyes and a long double barbed tail. Sounds like these guys were total beasts lol To everyone arguing about the precursor becoming the gavemind...its possible, but not needed. He could just have easily been infected just like everything else or if he escaped he would have died when the Halos are activated later.

  • 01.07.2011 9:03 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Yay, I was right about Bornstellar becoming the Didact (from a certain point of view, so Ben may say).

  • 01.07.2011 10:28 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MGTrey
  • user homepage:

The Seventh Column demands it.

Tumblr|Twitter

I don't know, I like the direction this trilogy is going with the fiction. I found it all interesting. The only "problems" I had with the book was the literary side of things: Most of the revelations in this book were just told to us, rather than happening, as if Cryptum was little more than a dressed-up history book. But it was immensely enjoyable nonetheless. One of my favorite Halo books already.

  • 01.07.2011 3:23 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: MGTrey
I don't know, I like the direction this trilogy is going with the fiction. I found it all interesting. The only "problems" I had with the book was the literary side of things: Most of the revelations in this book were just told to us, rather than happening, as if Cryptum was little more than a dressed-up history book. But it was immensely enjoyable nonetheless. One of my favorite Halo books already.


Well that's pretty much how it's presented as Born states in the opening pages of the book how the following is basically his account of how events happen to unfold.

  • 01.07.2011 3:25 PM PDT
  • gamertag: MGTrey
  • user homepage:

The Seventh Column demands it.

Tumblr|Twitter


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: MGTrey
I don't know, I like the direction this trilogy is going with the fiction. I found it all interesting. The only "problems" I had with the book was the literary side of things: Most of the revelations in this book were just told to us, rather than happening, as if Cryptum was little more than a dressed-up history book. But it was immensely enjoyable nonetheless. One of my favorite Halo books already.


Well that's pretty much how it's presented as Born states in the opening pages of the book how the following is basically his account of how events happen to unfold.


They're a retelling of events that happened to him, true enough, but that doesn't mean we're due a sit-down-by-the-campfire retelling of seriously important events. The only thing that really developed was Bornstellar, Chakas and Riser, as they learned of their respective histories and connection to one another much the same fashion: Born through Didact's imprint and the humans through the Librarian's geas. Outside of that, the only thing that happened was Bornstellar finding Didact's cryptum, the firing of the Halo to destroy the Prophets, and Mendicant Bias attacking the council with the Halos.

Everything else was just told to us through one cipher or another. Which isn't really bad, per se, just not adventurous (ironic that Bornstellar sought the same thing for a time). And I enjoyed it nonetheless, which is why I put problems in quotations.

[Edited on 01.07.2011 3:48 PM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 3:46 PM PDT

I tell you, we're here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.


Posted by: Joeaxamus
Yes one is broken, that's the one that Master Cheif blew up in Halo CE, Installation 04. At that point in the timeline only six halos were ready to fire. I think the six that were floating around the Ark when Bornstellar/Didact woke up are the ones which are used to kill the Flood, I've got a hunch that the Halo which MB and the Captive are on is 05. I could be wrong, but it seems like what should happen.


if bungie has any say or 343 wont let them and they at least aren't total idiots, i bet money it'll be 07.

that aside, but related, did anyone think the description of the Ark being lit by "hard light"/plasma going from the center of the halo rings above each "petal" to the teardrop in the center?

where'd that go in halo 3? what lights it then??

  • 01.07.2011 6:47 PM PDT