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Subject: Thel and Rtas vs Six and Emile
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Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: flamedude
Posted by: forthnback
Spartan 3s which both are inferior to Spartan 2s.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Emile and Six are genetically equal to the S2's, along with every other Alpha & Beta extract from the suicide pushes. With identical Mjolnir armor.

So, your wrong. According to Kurt, Mendez, and Bungie. But hey, what do they know.


Incorrect. S-IIIs are genetically inferior to S-IIs and noticeably smaller. Their only advantage is their beserker augmentation that allow them to continue fighting even when badly injured, that we see Six use it at the end of his/her life.


What you call the "beserker" augmentation wasn't introduced to Project CHRYSANTHEMUM until Gamma Company came about, Sic is from Beta Company.


If they didn't get that specific augmentation then it's quite clear that all the Spartan-IIIs received better augments overall when comparing to the Spartan-IIs. If you ask me, it's no wonder. (Emile, Six, Dante last moments)

As for Spartan-IIIs being ''noticeably smaller'' did any of you know that Jorge didn't just look huge to Spartan-IIIs because he was a Spartan-II, but because he's freakin the tallest known Spartan after Sam.

Jun, Carter and Emile are taller than John/Fred/Kelly, so Spartan-IIIs aren't really ''smaller'' when they are fully grown to the adulthood (25+ of age) to the Spartan-II counterparts.

  • 01.07.2011 2:55 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Six's death was massively overplayed, manwith. Also, Emile's death wasn't in any way proof that S-IIIs are better than S-IIs, so he managed to live an extra 5 seconds to stab the Elite? That's nothing really impressive.

Dante is from Gamma Company, he got the beserker augmentation.

  • 01.07.2011 3:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajw34307
Six's death was massively overplayed, manwith. Also, Emile's death wasn't in any way proof that S-IIIs are better than S-IIs, so he managed to live an extra 5 seconds to stab the Elite? That's nothing really impressive.

Dante is from Gamma Company, he got the beserker augmentation.


How can you say something like that without any sort of proof? I mean, that's like saying Noble Six being hyper lethal was a non-canon thing.

  • 01.07.2011 3:06 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: ajw34307
Six's death was massively overplayed, manwith. Also, Emile's death wasn't in any way proof that S-IIIs are better than S-IIs, so he managed to live an extra 5 seconds to stab the Elite? That's nothing really impressive.

Dante is from Gamma Company, he got the beserker augmentation.


How can you say something like that without any sort of proof? I mean, that's like saying Noble Six being hyper lethal was a non-canon thing.


Six was on his last strand of health, he'd taken multiple plasma bolts to the torso and face and was still able to kill an Ultra with half an AR's clip. He then elbowed a General and killed it with that single impact, then he dual-wielded an AR and Pistol firing both at the same time and killing 2 more Elites and was finally knocked down when 3 more arrived.

Massively overplayed, as "hyper-lethal" as he is that just defies the boundaries of pain completely. How can you carry on doing all that when you've essentially got your body searing with plasma rounds and you're on your last bar of health?

I'd compare it to the Monsters cutscene from Halo Wars.

  • 01.07.2011 3:32 PM PDT

Yes, very true.

Posted by: Grizzwizz
I reckon the Elite duo would win, but then it depends on location, equipment and stuff. Hand to hand, no knives, Elites.

  • 01.07.2011 3:43 PM PDT

Whens there's no one to turn to, just aim ahead


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: manwith
Takes at least 7 Elites to kill Six alone in a gun fight. Pretty sure he can deal with 2 Elites with a Spartan back up.


Those 7 elites were stupid,they fired and didn't tried to dodge or take cover.

Thel and Rtas won't fail


Six killed 3 Elite field marshalls single handedly which are the highest ranked Elite warriors. Doubt the Arbiter is that much better Elite than an Elite general/zealot/marshall in combat.


Thel, was the fleet commander of the fleet that destroyed Reach. To reach that rank, he has to be better then everyone else.

  • 01.07.2011 4:05 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Jonzx5
Rtas did not beat one of the finest swordsman in the Covenant by missing his sword swipes all the time.

His ability can be defined through viewing him as the only survivor of a mission against the Flood that killed everyone else. He isn't some random Elite or even a random Zealot. He fought more defensively against Bero as well, not charging him all the time.

  • 01.07.2011 4:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Jonzx5
Rtas did not beat one of the finest swordsman in the Covenant by missing his sword swipes all the time.

His ability can be defined through viewing him as the only survivor of a mission against the Flood that killed everyone else. He isn't some random Elite or even a random Zealot. He fought more defensively against Bero as well, not charging him all the time.


My mistake. I completely forgot the "Last voyage" encounter. Yes, Rtas did defeat his commander in a sword duel, however his commander was infected by the flood, which means that his skills and technique would be completely lacking, also since when was Kusovai one of the finest swordsman in the Covenant?

If we are comparing him to Emile in the sense that he "was the only survivor of the mission against the flood", than I can also say that Emile was "the only survivor of a suicide mission that killed off his whole squad, which is why he joined NOBLE Team".



[Edited on 01.07.2011 4:45 PM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 4:22 PM PDT

i choose Six and Emile because i love Emile's armor

  • 01.07.2011 4:23 PM PDT

Flamedude:

Well, it seems that the two people in-universe who trained them, and Bungie, agree with me and not you.

Further, most S3's were genetically "less vibrant" than the S2's. However, since you apparently haven't read, I'll recap.

http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=personn el&cid=24040

According to Bungie, Kurt, and Mendez, every S3 they extracted and gave MJOLNIR are identical in genetic requirements to the S2.

Anything else? Oh, and their augments are identical in results but differ in three ways. They don't have need for a thyroid implant for growth, they are chemically induced and not surgically implanted, and they have a 100% success rate as opposed to killing two thirds of the class.

http://www.halopedian.com/SPARTAN-II_Augmentation_Procedures
http://www.halopedian.com/Project_CHRYSANTHEMUM


[Edited on 01.07.2011 4:48 PM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 4:44 PM PDT

Manwith:

I'm glad someone else is aware of the height issue. I'm sure most S3's are, indeed, smaller and weaker.

But the Extracts, according to Kurt, all met Halsey's S2 requirements via genetic screening and are their equals in terms of advantages.

John is, technically, one inch taller than Carter and Emile. But still, that means nothing.

[Edited on 01.07.2011 4:52 PM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 4:52 PM PDT
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let's see...an elite who matches the skill of chief, and the former specops commander of the covenant, versus two spartan IIIs? How is this even a fight?

  • 01.07.2011 4:58 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Jonzx5
My mistake. I completely forgot the "Last voyage" encounter. Yes, Rtas did defeat his commander in a sword duel, however his commander was infected by the flood, which means that his skills and technique would be completely lacking, also since when was Kusovai one of the finest swordsman in the Covenant?

It makes mention of Bero's superior skills in Page 14 of HGN. Also, Bero was his Sub-Commander, not his his superior, but that is irrelevant anyway.

[EDIT: Also, to reinforce this, the Encyclopaedia describes Rtas as being an "unparalleled swordsman".]

Being infected by the Flood makes hosts stronger. There really is not any evidence to suggest that they are made more sluggish. The Flood was also beginning to speak at this point as well and attain meta-cognition.

Posted by: Jonzx5
If we are comparing him to Emile in the sense that he "was the only survivor of the mission against the flood", then I can also say that Emile was "the only survivor of a suicide mission that killed off his whole squad, which is why he joined NOBLE Team".

Which mission was this that Emile went on? It cannot be the one Alpha company went on during PROMETHEUS because no one exfiltrated; they all died there.

[Edited on 01.07.2011 6:28 PM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 5:05 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Anton1792 is right,combat forms are far stronger then their original hosts.

Like how human combat froms have superhuman power capable of fighting a sII in hand to hand combat in the flood

  • 01.07.2011 5:11 PM PDT

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Posted by: Jonzx5

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Jonzx5
Rtas did not beat one of the finest swordsman in the Covenant by missing his sword swipes all the time.

His ability can be defined through viewing him as the only survivor of a mission against the Flood that killed everyone else. He isn't some random Elite or even a random Zealot. He fought more defensively against Bero as well, not charging him all the time.


My mistake. I completely forgot the "Last voyage" encounter. Yes, Rtas did defeat his commander in a sword duel, however his commander was infected by the flood, which means that his skills and technique would be completely lacking, also since when was Kusovai one of the finest swordsman in the Covenant?

If we are comparing him to Emile in the sense that he "was the only survivor of the mission against the flood", than I can also say that Emile was "the only survivor of a suicide mission that killed off his whole squad, which is why he joined NOBLE Team".



the flood would have absorbed his memory making him just as formidable

  • 01.07.2011 6:24 PM PDT

In an insane world a sane person must seem insane


Posted by: Jonzx5
Spartan's and Elite's are roughly physically equal, however Spartan's are much better trained. They are put into the best training course in the world at a very young age, and are trained to become thinking killers, a very deadly combination. Even without superhuman augmentations, Spartan's would be extremely dangerous.

Our combatants:

1. Noble 6: One of the better Spartan-III's. Has been shown as being capable of taking on multiple Field Marshall, Zealot, General, and Ultra class Elites in hand to hand combat.

2. Emile: Not at Noble 6's level, but is still one of the better Spartan-III's.

3. Thel: According to evidence and feats, Thel is the most skilled Elite in the entire Covenant. He was a Zealot before being "promoted" to Arbiter, and after his "Promotion", he showed incredible feats such as taking out the Heretics almost single handedly, killing their leader, etc...This puts him equal to a Spartan-III, and is possibly the only Sangheili who can match a Spartan in 1v1 combat.

4. Rtas: Special Operations Commander. This puts him slightly under a Zealot in terms of skill and experience.

Scenario 1: The Elite's both have swords, and the Spartan's are unarmed, maybe carrying combat knives/Kukri's:

A Spartan-III (and II's) training in hand to hand combat allows him to easily take on Sword wielding Elites by utilizing ducks, dodges, blocks, grapples, throws, and counter's taught in many human martial arts forms. They could just duck under a sword swing, then land a right hook taking out the Elite's shields, and a left hook which cracks the Elites skull.

Now lets say that Noble 6 takes on Thel. As mentioned above, Thel is the most skilled Elite, and can match a Spartan in 1v1 combat. This would mean that a sword wielding Thel would have a draw against an unarmed Noble 6, with Thel finding that Noble 6 is too fast and skilled to be able to land a solid sword swing, and Noble 6 realizing that Thel is also too skilled for him to succesfully counter attack and land a solid bone breaking punch or kick.

While Thel and 6 are fighting, Emile would take on Rtas. Now, in Ghosts of Onyx, a 12 year old Spartan-III in crappy SPI Armor, the type thats bulky, slow, has no shields, and does not make the user twice as strong and five times as fast, is shown to be easily able to take on a sword wielding Spec-Ops Elite in hand to hand combat. If a child Spartan-III in SPI Armor can easily take on an experienced Spec-Ops Elite in "hand to sword" combat, than a fully grown, slightly above average Spartan-III in MJOLNIR (Such as Emile), would be easily capable of taking on a sword wielding Zealot with his bare hands, and Rtas's rank and skills are roughly equal to that of a Zealot. Emile would kill Rtas, most likely with a punch or a kick, than go and assist Noble 6, who is still duking it out with the Arbiter. The two Spartan's would then stomp Thel.

Scenario 2: All 4 combatants have swords. Now, contarary to popular beleif, the Spartan's would not win any quicker if they had swords, because Elites are more skilled swordsman than Spartan's are, which means that the two Spartan's would have their swords disarmed in a matter of seconds. Then, we would be reverted back to scenario 1, in which the Spartan's are unarmed, and the Elites have swords. The Spartan's win, but not any quicker than in scenario 1.

Scenario 3: All 4 combatants are armed with the approapriate weapons. Thel has a Sword and a Carbine, Rtas has a Sword and dual Plasma Rifles, Noble 6 has an Assault Rifle and a Pistol, and Emile has a Shotgun and a Pistol. Spartan's are much more skilled in the use of firearms than Elites, mainly due to the fact that an Elites training focuses on the spiritual and honorable practices, while a Human Spartan's training is more focused on the tactical and practical aspects, which is also why Spartan's are more skilled in hand to hand combat as well.

I don't see anyway the Elite's would win in any scenario.
u talk to much. Just say the spartans would win.

  • 01.07.2011 8:08 PM PDT

Please don't hype for games...
They'll just fall short of your expectations and you'll complain for months.

I would like to point out that in The Cole Protocol, Thel took on a SPARTAN-II. And LIVED. I also point out that SPARTAN-III's are a lot cheaper than spartan-IIs. However, 6 is at MC's combat rating, so he deserves some points.

I still say elites win. Emile is practically useless.

[Edited on 01.07.2011 10:29 PM PST]

  • 01.07.2011 10:26 PM PDT
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____________(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_∏______
l | --------____.`=====.-.~:________\___|=======================[ oo]
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)

Depends on who I'm controlling. haha

  • 01.07.2011 10:28 PM PDT

I would like to point out that in The Cole Protocol, Thel took on a SPARTAN-II. And LIVED.

Well, the Spartan II lived as well. And Thel considered him a decent match, especially as it broke some of his ribs and he didn't do any apparent damage to it beyond breaking Jai's gun.

We obviously don't know how good Jai is, in regards to hand to hand combat in comparison to the other S2's, but he did that in Mark IV armor.

  • 01.07.2011 11:03 PM PDT
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Emile and R'Tas are invincible, while Six and Arbiter respawn, so it would be a draw.

  • 01.07.2011 11:28 PM PDT

Halo is one of the most important part of my life.


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: manwith
Takes at least 7 Elites to kill Six alone in a gun fight. Pretty sure he can deal with 2 Elites with a Spartan back up.


Those 7 elites were stupid,they fired and didn't tried to dodge or take cover.

Thel and Rtas won't fail


Six killed 3 Elite field marshalls single handedly which are the highest ranked Elite warriors. Doubt the Arbiter is that much better Elite than an Elite general/zealot/marshall in combat.


The arbiter fight along mater Chief on Halo 3 and they were as awsome as the other.. i think he could defeat 2 Spartan III's in no time.

  • 01.08.2011 12:11 AM PDT

Halo is one of the most important part of my life.


Posted by: RepaidPlatypus

Posted by: Jonzx5
Spartan's and Elite's are roughly physically equal, however Spartan's are much better trained. They are put into the best training course in the world at a very young age, and are trained to become thinking killers, a very deadly combination. Even without superhuman augmentations, Spartan's would be extremely dangerous.

Our combatants:

1. Noble 6: One of the better Spartan-III's. Has been shown as being capable of taking on multiple Field Marshall, Zealot, General, and Ultra class Elites in hand to hand combat.

2. Emile: Not at Noble 6's level, but is still one of the better Spartan-III's.

3. Thel: According to evidence and feats, Thel is the most skilled Elite in the entire Covenant. He was a Zealot before being "promoted" to Arbiter, and after his "Promotion", he showed incredible feats such as taking out the Heretics almost single handedly, killing their leader, etc...This puts him equal to a Spartan-III, and is possibly the only Sangheili who can match a Spartan in 1v1 combat.

4. Rtas: Special Operations Commander. This puts him slightly under a Zealot in terms of skill and experience.

Scenario 1: The Elite's both have swords, and the Spartan's are unarmed, maybe carrying combat knives/Kukri's:

A Spartan-III (and II's) training in hand to hand combat allows him to easily take on Sword wielding Elites by utilizing ducks, dodges, blocks, grapples, throws, and counter's taught in many human martial arts forms. They could just duck under a sword swing, then land a right hook taking out the Elite's shields, and a left hook which cracks the Elites skull.

Now lets say that Noble 6 takes on Thel. As mentioned above, Thel is the most skilled Elite, and can match a Spartan in 1v1 combat. This would mean that a sword wielding Thel would have a draw against an unarmed Noble 6, with Thel finding that Noble 6 is too fast and skilled to be able to land a solid sword swing, and Noble 6 realizing that Thel is also too skilled for him to succesfully counter attack and land a solid bone breaking punch or kick.

While Thel and 6 are fighting, Emile would take on Rtas. Now, in Ghosts of Onyx, a 12 year old Spartan-III in crappy SPI Armor, the type thats bulky, slow, has no shields, and does not make the user twice as strong and five times as fast, is shown to be easily able to take on a sword wielding Spec-Ops Elite in hand to hand combat. If a child Spartan-III in SPI Armor can easily take on an experienced Spec-Ops Elite in "hand to sword" combat, than a fully grown, slightly above average Spartan-III in MJOLNIR (Such as Emile), would be easily capable of taking on a sword wielding Zealot with his bare hands, and Rtas's rank and skills are roughly equal to that of a Zealot. Emile would kill Rtas, most likely with a punch or a kick, than go and assist Noble 6, who is still duking it out with the Arbiter. The two Spartan's would then stomp Thel.

Scenario 2: All 4 combatants have swords. Now, contarary to popular beleif, the Spartan's would not win any quicker if they had swords, because Elites are more skilled swordsman than Spartan's are, which means that the two Spartan's would have their swords disarmed in a matter of seconds. Then, we would be reverted back to scenario 1, in which the Spartan's are unarmed, and the Elites have swords. The Spartan's win, but not any quicker than in scenario 1.

Scenario 3: All 4 combatants are armed with the approapriate weapons. Thel has a Sword and a Carbine, Rtas has a Sword and dual Plasma Rifles, Noble 6 has an Assault Rifle and a Pistol, and Emile has a Shotgun and a Pistol. Spartan's are much more skilled in the use of firearms than Elites, mainly due to the fact that an Elites training focuses on the spiritual and honorable practices, while a Human Spartan's training is more focused on the tactical and practical aspects, which is also why Spartan's are more skilled in hand to hand combat as well.

I don't see anyway the Elite's would win in any scenario.
u talk to much. Just say the spartans would win.



LOL...

Anyway.. you are wrong i read that Rtas was THE BEST with the Sword... in a battle against a infected Elite by the Flood (who was considered as the best with the sword) he managed to kill him, and he only looses a part of his jaw... You understimate Rtas!

  • 01.08.2011 12:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Jonzx5
My mistake. I completely forgot the "Last voyage" encounter. Yes, Rtas did defeat his commander in a sword duel, however his commander was infected by the flood, which means that his skills and technique would be completely lacking, also since when was Kusovai one of the finest swordsman in the Covenant?

It makes mention of Bero's superior skills in Page 14 of HGN. Also, Bero was his Sub-Commander, not his his superior, but that is irrelevant anyway.

[EDIT: Also, to reinforce this, the Encyclopaedia describes Rtas as being an "unparalleled swordsman".]

Being infected by the Flood makes hosts stronger. There really is not any evidence to suggest that they are made more sluggish. The Flood was also beginning to speak at this point as well and attain meta-cognition.

Posted by: Jonzx5
If we are comparing him to Emile in the sense that he "was the only survivor of the mission against the flood", then I can also say that Emile was "the only survivor of a suicide mission that killed off his whole squad, which is why he joined NOBLE Team".

Which mission was this that Emile went on? It cannot be the one Alpha company went on during PROMETHEUS because no one exfiltrated; they all died there.


Ok, so the flood infection makes the host physically stronger, and although it does not explicitly state anywhere that it also makes the host less able to think and make, I think it's safe to assume that being infected by the flood will impeded the user's ability to make tactical dececisions. Lets just say that the flood infection is nuetral in this situation, and did not enhance, or detract from Beru's abilities.

You mentioned that the Halo Encyclopedia says that Rtas's swordsmanship being unparalleled, I would just like to mention that the Halo Encyclopedia lists the Rogue and the Scout armor as the same thing. The Halo Encyclopedia also says that a Brute Major is a Brute Minor, and the color of a Brute Ultra's armor is cited to be cyan, when in reality it is violet. I'm not completely disreguarding the Halo Encyclopedia as a valid source, I am simply saying that we should not take what it says word for word, as obvious errors are present in it.

As for the suicide mission that Emile survived, I have no clue. I do know that NOBLE Team is consisted of the best Spartan-III's who either scored higher on tests/training exercises, or survived suicide missions.

I would just like to say again, that if a 12 year old Spartan-III in SPI Armor can overpower and defeat an experienced Spec-Ops Elite in Hand to Hand combat when the Elite had a SWORD (Ghosts of Onyx), It would be safe to assume that a fully grown, top of the line Spartan-III in strength, reflex, speed, and protection enhancing MJOLNIR Armor can defeat Rtas, or Thel.

[Edited on 01.08.2011 11:33 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 11:29 AM PDT

I'm not sure what you're looking for.

"Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing" -- Proverbs 12:18

they wouldn't die their main charecters

  • 01.08.2011 12:11 PM PDT

I'm not sure what you're looking for.

"Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing" -- Proverbs 12:18


Posted by: TheElitesPWN
Emile and R'Tas are invincible, while Six and Arbiter respawn, so it would be a draw.


this

  • 01.08.2011 12:12 PM PDT

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