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Subject: Thel and Rtas vs Six and Emile
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Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Jonzx5
When have I ever assumed that what is true for John is true for all Spartan's? In the examples I gave of Spartans beating Elites or multiple Elites in hand to hand combat, most of them were not John doing the fighting.

Using John's killing of the Brutes in Uprising. The other examples are of individuals. John, Fred, Kelly, whatever.

Posted by: Jonzx5
I have also accepted the fact that Rtas is an unparalleled swordsman, and one of the best Elite warriors in the Covenant, possibly as skilled as Thel.

Possibly more skilled; possibly as skilled; possibly less skilled. There is no way to know. You cannot assume that he is less than or equal to any more than you can can assume he is greater than.

Posted by: Jonzx5
The conclusion that Jai walked away without a scratch is obvious. The fight between Jai and Thel was pretty detailed, and it stated every aspect, or injury that the two combatants may have received.

It was from Thel's point of view. He had no idea whether or not he inflicted injury to Jai.

Posted by: Jonzx5
Jai was stated to have no injuries, while Thel had broken ribs. Jai continued to fight throughout the story after his encounter with Thel, and never once was an injury mentioned.

What page was this stated? Thel suffered a single broken rib, and got up and sprinted after Jai. He said that such an injury would not impair him. If Jai had any similar injuries, then it is likely that they did not impair his ability to fight either.

Posted by: Jonzx5
I would also like to mention that after Jai broke Thel's ribs and threw him against a wall, he was reaching for his knife about to kill Thel when he had more urgent things to attend to and had to leave instead.

Well Thel seemed quite confident, asserting after seeing the knife that neither would win; they would kill each other in the end.


In this case, it is nearly impossible to conclude if Rtas or Emile would win a hand to hand fight.

As for Thel and Jai, the battle between them was from Thel's point of view, yes. However, the rest of the story (Or most of it) is from the humans, including Jai's point of view. Jai never stated that he suffered from any injuries after his battle with Thel, while Thel did. I would think that if Jai did receive an injury, it would have been stated by either Jai himself, the narrator, or another individual, perhaps a Spartan who would have noticed Jai's injury. Since it was never stated that he received an injury, we can conclude that he did not.

I don't know about you, but the battle between Jai and Thel sure points to Jai as the victor. He broke Thel's ribs, threw him against a wall, and was reaching for his knife. I would also like to mention that Jai was wearing Mark IV Armor, while Thel had his golden Zealot armor with powerful energy shields, and still "lost".

With this information, we can safely conclude that a shielded Noble 6 in Mark V would be able defeat Thel in a hand to hand fight where Thel wields a sword, and Noble 6 a knife.

As for Rtas and Emile, appearently we don't have enough information to conclude that encounter. I would like to point out however, that Spartan's win every single hand to hand encounter with Elites, or multiple Elites. I understand that Rtas is not an "average Elite", but neither were the Field Marshals, Generals, and Ultra's that Noble 6 took on, the 20+ Honor guards that 3 Red Team Spartan's took on, or the 3 Spec-Ops Elites and Major's that Kelly took on. These engagements (there are many more examples) have to count for at least SOMETHING when trying to decide if Rtas or Emile would win...

  • 01.09.2011 12:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: WhiterRain12
they wouldn't die their main charecters

emile and six died, rtas and thel didn't.

  • 01.09.2011 12:35 PM PDT

Also known as Entropy91
Black Water Ops representative.
See you on the battlefield.

Thel and Rtas managed to survive through to the end of the series. Six and Emile did not.

Also, these two Elites have survived multiple engagements with the Flood, which niether Six nor Emile have likely encountered. Who knows what else they've gone up against. Their weapons of choice? Energy swords. Now take a look at how both Emile and Six died. Energy blades.

Rtas and Thel are both high ranking Elites. Rtas being an Ultra, specifically the one in charge of Sangheli SOCOM, and Thel being the Arbiter, formerly a Zealot, more specifically, the one running the entire operation at Installation 04. Keep in mind that the Sangheli ranking system is based on asskicking = authority. You rank up based on kills, and nothing else matters.

  • 01.09.2011 2:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: ME7ALMAR7IAN777
Thel and Rtas managed to survive through to the end of the series. Six and Emile did not.

Also, these two Elites have survived multiple engagements with the Flood, which niether Six nor Emile have likely encountered. Who knows what else they've gone up against. Their weapons of choice? Energy swords. Now take a look at how both Emile and Six died. Energy blades.

Rtas and Thel are both high ranking Elites. Rtas being an Ultra, specifically the one in charge of Sangheli SOCOM, and Thel being the Arbiter, formerly a Zealot, more specifically, the one running the entire operation at Installation 04. Keep in mind that the Sangheli ranking system is based on asskicking = authority. You rank up based on kills, and nothing else matters.



Are you seriously going to use the fact that both Six and Emile died of energy swords as an argument? Spartan's are trained in hand to hand combat, including combat against opponents with weapons. Think modern day Krav Maga, Systema, Aikido, etc...Even a "normal" human in our modern day can take on opponents armed with knives and swords if they have the proper training to do so. Now mix in the superhuman strength, reflexes, and agility of Spartan's.

I am aware that both Thel and Rtas are very skilled Elites, possibly the best. They have both survived engagements in which their squad died (Well Rtas did), and are both of very high rank. If you want to use Rtas's rank as an argument and say that Rtas is the commander of Covenant Socom, that would put him as an equivilant of a human ODST commander. Spartan's are even more secretive and "high up" than SOCOM, think of them as today's JSOC or SAD/SOG.
This fight won't be short, and the two Spartan's would not win as easily as they do against all other Elites, but if Thel lost to Jai in Mark IV Armor, what makes you think Six can't do the same? Again, look at all the previous hand to hand engagements Spartan's had with Elites in the games, books, and comics. Spartan's win every single hand to hand engagement against sword wielding Elites, or multiple sword wielding Elites.

[Edited on 01.09.2011 7:00 PM PST]

  • 01.09.2011 3:59 PM PDT

Six is Hyper Lethal and Emile... Well this pic will explain.

  • 01.09.2011 5:42 PM PDT

Well look at it this way
Thel = Chief
Chief > 6 and Emile
Therefore, Thel > 6 and Emile

  • 01.09.2011 5:44 PM PDT

Ignoring the fact that your logic is wrong, Six is actually just as skilled as Master Chief. Halsey in-universe confirms that Noble Six is the most lethal of all the Spartan, with one other having an equal rating. Master Chief is -assumed- to be this other, but its not confirmed.

Chief = Six

Appropriate avatar, though.

  • 01.10.2011 12:37 PM PDT
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Chief can't be hyper-lethal since he's very average Spartan-II in terms of speed, strength, accuracy and intelligence.

  • 01.10.2011 1:06 PM PDT

No contest. The elites survived the war, Six and Emile did not. That tends to say something.

After watching Emile's death cutscene, I don't know how he can be referred to as a "master of close-quarters combat."

Elites had better training anyway.

  • 01.10.2011 2:01 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Either of the two sangheili could beat Six & Emile singlehandedly.

  • 01.10.2011 2:09 PM PDT

My Screenshots / My Group / Remember to follow the rules or you will get trapped in a box.


Posted by: manwith
Takes at least 7 Elites to kill Six alone in a gun fight. Pretty sure he can deal with 2 Elites with a Spartan back up.

Perhaps you do not know who Thel is? He is the arbiter. In the halo legends epsode the package thay red elite was him. He almost killed the master chief. He cold kill them both alone. He even has Rtas to back him up.

[Edited on 01.10.2011 2:29 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2011 2:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: carby21

Posted by: manwith
Takes at least 7 Elites to kill Six alone in a gun fight. Pretty sure he can deal with 2 Elites with a Spartan back up.

Perhaps you do not know who Thel is? He is the arbiter. In the halo legends epsode the package thay red elite was him. He almost killed the master chief. He cold kill them both alone. He even has Rtas to back him up.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the Arbiter never faced Master Chief that we know of. The elite in the package was a major named Thel Lodamee. However, he did face a Spartan-II named Jai when he was wearing Mark IV and Jai was in his 20s at the time and the Arbiter left with broken ribs.

I don't see how a Spartan-III in Mark V with hyper lethal rating, a rating that possibly only one other Spartan-II has couldn't win that fight against Thel Vadamee.

  • 01.10.2011 2:47 PM PDT
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I agree with others in the matter of location, available weapons, etc.

As much as I love Noble Team, I have to say that Thel and Rtas would kick major ass. I can't deny this. If it were any other Elite, probably a different outcome then.

  • 01.10.2011 2:51 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

The problem with the Halo universe is that Spartans and Elites are meant to be the direct equivalents between the UNSC and Covenant, but there are only a few Spartans and an unlimited supply of Elite characters to kill of. Because of this Elites die by the dozens and only one or two Spartans get killed off.

Side by side they are very similar. Size, strength, weaponry, skills, upbringing, intelligence. Depending on whether you take gameplay as a reflection of the canon then its clear, from the games, that Elites are equal matches for Spartans.

  • 01.10.2011 3:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: flamedude
The problem with the Halo universe is that Spartans and Elites are meant to be the direct equivalents between the UNSC and Covenant, but there are only a few Spartans and an unlimited supply of Elite characters to kill of. Because of this Elites die by the dozens and only one or two Spartans get killed off.

Side by side they are very similar. Size, strength, weaponry, skills, upbringing, intelligence. Depending on whether you take gameplay as a reflection of the canon then its clear, from the games, that Elites are equal matches for Spartans.


They are very similar in size, and strength, but its a joke if you think that their skills and intelligence are similar. Spartan's have proven time after time to be more skilled with weapons, and in hand to hand combat. If you've read Fall of Reach, you will see the intelligence of a Spartan is pretty incredible. Think of it this way: Us Humans are very similar in size and strength and physical build, but look at how differently skilled we can be. We have people in our world who don't know how to throw a proper left hook, and then we have those who have reflexes and training fast enough to dodge a bullet (Don't beleive me? Do some research on US Army Special Forces training in Kun Tao)

Only in multiplayer the Spartan's and Elite's are "equal", even in Campaign, it takes absolutely no skill to defeat an Elite in a fist fight, even the Field Marshal at the end can be easily defeated if you go up close and fist fight it. You are getting gameplay confused with Canon. If you read the books, you will see that Spartan's are superior to Elite's.

In General. However, I accept that Thel is not a "normal Elite" and neither is Rtas. I still think that Noble 6's skill set is equal or better than Thel's. Don't forget that Thel lost to Jai, a minor character who was in Mark IV Armor while Thel had full zealot energy shielding.

  • 01.10.2011 4:19 PM PDT

Maybe he got more skilled since his battle with Jai

  • 01.11.2011 12:43 AM PDT

if it was Jorge and Six, yes, but Emile is a stinking turd.

  • 01.11.2011 5:14 AM PDT


Posted by: manwith
Chief can't be hyper-lethal since he's very average Spartan-II in terms of speed, strength, accuracy and intelligence.


Chief was always one of the best Spatans in terms of skill, just not the best. He was also very creative in his tactics.

  • 01.11.2011 5:18 AM PDT

and Jai was Epic

  • 01.11.2011 5:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: High Defination

Posted by: manwith
Chief can't be hyper-lethal since he's very average Spartan-II in terms of speed, strength, accuracy and intelligence.


Chief was always one of the best Spatans in terms of skill, just not the best. He was also very creative in his tactics.


Not really, he sucked at hand to hand combat, sniping and he was bad at lone wolfing when comparing other Spartan-IIs. He was a good leader, but not so much individually.

His prime advantage was being lucky enough not to fight on Reach.

  • 01.11.2011 6:25 AM PDT
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I'm gonna give it to the Elites. Neither are the average Elite mind you.

  • 01.11.2011 8:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: manwith
Takes at least 7 Elites to kill Six alone in a gun fight. Pretty sure he can deal with 2 Elites with a Spartan back up.
That is only because of game compatibility. According to legend, (the print sources such as the books,) Spartan II's were near even, if not, inferior to Elite minors. Never mind Spartan III's, who were much less capable than II. This is why Thel Vadam(ee) and Rtas Vadum(ee) are superior.

  • 01.16.2011 1:48 PM PDT

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