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Subject: According to Cryptum, The Terminals are now wrong?(SPOILERS)

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

The Didact apparently discovered the Flood 10,000 years ago when he defeated the Humans and spoke to The Captive, the last Precursor, and was told that the Flood was meant to destroy the Forerunner, who millions of years ago turned on and destroyed the Precursor.

Then for those ten thousand years the Forerunner had been preparing defenses also creating the Halo's while in the Terminals say that their first contact and knowledge of them was only a few hundred years before the Didact created Mendicant Bias. But during the thousand years before Cryptum the Didact was apparently in exile and had no hand in the plans and they change the creation date of Mendicant to much earlier.

They also changed his primary purpose to being the testing and control of the Halo installations. But in the terminals it clearly says he was created by the Didact 40ish years before in order to find the Gravemind at the center of the infestation. Now it seems that instead of being corrupted by the Gravemind he was corrupted by the last Precursor on Charum Hakkur when he test fired the first Halo.

The discovery of the Humans in the Terminals has also been a core element to the Halo series. But now with the Human Forerunner war many things are thrown into doubt. According to the book the Librarian had been studying them for 10,000 years and had already cataloged them. But in the Terminals she is trapped on the other side of the Maginot Line because she finds them at the last moment.

Just so many things seem to be wrong, I don't understand why new canon can't be created, aka Cryptum and Reach, without subverting established canon...

[Edited on 01.08.2011 12:45 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 10:45 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

I haven't read your post to avoid spoilers,but i think they changed the terminals a little so it would make more sense

An exemple:Mendicant bias talks with the mind for +40 years in halo 3???Doesn't makes any sense.

From what i've heard about cryptum so far,the forerunenrs in cryptum are portrayed better then they were in terminals.

[Edited on 01.08.2011 10:51 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 10:48 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
I haven't read your post to avoid spoilers,but i think they changed the terminals a little so it would make more sense

An exemple:Mendicant bias talks with the mind for +40 years in halo 3???Doesn't makes any sense.

From what i've heard about cryptum so far,the forerunenrs in cryptum are portrayed better then they were in terminals.

Please read Cryptum before commenting. You can't understand what has changed and how the story has been altered without knowing what the book's story is.

  • 01.08.2011 10:52 AM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: hotshot revan II
I haven't read your post to avoid spoilers,but i think they changed the terminals a little so it would make more sense

An exemple:Mendicant bias talks with the mind for +40 years in halo 3???Doesn't makes any sense.

From what i've heard about cryptum so far,the forerunenrs in cryptum are portrayed better then they were in terminals.

Please read Cryptum before commenting. You can't understand what has changed and how the story has been altered without knowing what the book's story is.


Born states our perspective of the Forerunner story is warped; not entirely true, but not entirely untrue.

  • 01.08.2011 11:06 AM PDT
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Oh, the terminals are too vague to provide a 100% accurate picture. There's got to be less than 2,000 words between the seven of them.

  • 01.08.2011 11:16 AM PDT

I don't care. I really don't.

Personally, I liked Cryptum more than the Terminals as they seemed more life-like and, even though there was more detail, left mysteries and questions, unlike the Terminals which was pretty much "Forerunner+Flood=War".

And it was written by Greg Bear, a science fiction storytelling genius who has been recognized as such as opposed to a small team of Bungie who spent probably a month writing about a small satysfying backstory.
The Terminals were good, don't get me wrong, but they lacked a certain sense realism, which Bungie seemed to hit perfectly with the rest of the series, but really did miss by miles during those canon-based easter eggs.

P.S. And remember, Cryptum is told from the point of view of the Didact's "reincarnation", a perfectly operating (although confused for a short time) Forerunner as opposed to the Terminals which were subject to change from both the Ark's and Mendicant Bias' operating systems and what they deemed was right or wrong to tell John-117, and could have changed what was there if it meant keeping him in the dark to get the human to do what they wanted him to do.

[Edited on 01.08.2011 11:22 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 11:21 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Born states our perspective of the Forerunner story is warped; not entirely true, but not entirely untrue.

Warped? There is a huge discrepancy between Cryptum and the Terminals which were letters directly from Didact and the Librarian, and transcripts of what AI's observed. Those are some 1 person sources right there. But the book says that instead of fighting the Flood for a few hundred years and creating Bias to fight the Flood Didact was in exile for a thousand years and Mendicant was meant to create and test the Halo's.

The descriptive word I would use is shattered not Warped.

Posted by: FleetAdmiralBob
Oh, the terminals are too vague to provide a 100% accurate picture. There's got to be less than 2,000 words between the seven of them.

But in those 2000 words what I've said was clearly established and was changed by Cryptum.


[Edited on 01.08.2011 11:33 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 11:31 AM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Born states our perspective of the Forerunner story is warped; not entirely true, but not entirely untrue.

Warped? There is a huge discrepancy between Cryptum and the Terminals which were letters directly from Didact and the Librarian, and transcripts of what AI's observed. Those are some 1 person sources right there. But the book says that instead of fighting the Flood for a few hundred years and creating Bias to fight the Flood Didact was in exile for a thousand years and Mendicant was meant to create and test the Halo's.

The descriptive word I would use is shattered not Warped.

Posted by: FleetAdmiralBob
Oh, the terminals are too vague to provide a 100% accurate picture. There's got to be less than 2,000 words between the seven of them.

But in those 2000 words what I've said was clearly established and was changed by Cryptum.


he says its full of idealism rather then what actually happened. Maybe they'll explain it in books II and III

[Edited on 01.08.2011 11:46 AM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 11:46 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Venator82
P.S. And remember, Cryptum is told from the point of view of the Didact's "reincarnation", a perfectly operating (although confused for a short time) Forerunner

The main discrepancy that throws the entire story line out of whack though is Mendicant's original purpose and the time when the Forerunner discovered the Flood. Also that the Didact had been in exile for 1000 years and apparently not a part of the Flood Forerunner war which the Terminals always said he was.

  • 01.08.2011 12:20 PM PDT

Mendicant Bias was created to operate, control and use the Halos, thus he was created to fight the flood. There can be innacuracies with whom Mendicant Bias spoke with for 40 years because as soon as he returned he attacked the council. They probably thought he spoke with the Gravemind when he actually spoke with the Precursor. Regardless of what was said, Mendicant Bias was talked into betraying the Forerunners. While Cryptum has some slight inconsistencies, it generally lines up with the canon nicely.

  • 01.08.2011 12:21 PM PDT

He hasnt been part of the Forerunner flood war because in the remaining 2 books to be released he will battle the flood. Since Didact was most likely executed, BornStellar will become a reincarnated version of Didact and it is his records you see in the terminals.

  • 01.08.2011 12:23 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: mchalo and fries
He hasnt been part of the Forerunner flood war because in the remaining 2 books to be released he will battle the flood. Since Didact was most likely executed, BornStellar will become a reincarnated version of Didact and it is his records you see in the terminals.

But according to Cryptum and the Terminals the Forerunner had been battling the Flood for several hundred years. Through that time the Didact's correspondence with the Librarian seem to show that he had been fighting the entire time and the Halos and Ark weren't created until the very end. But apparently he was in exile the whole time now.

Mendicant was created to lead a fleet into the center of the galaxy to capture and destroy the Gravemind not to create the Halos.

The discovery of the Humans by the Librarian is also thrown off. In the terminals she didn't find and catalog them until the end of the war which is why she was stranded on Earth. If she knew about them the whole time and had them cataloged why would she need to cross the Maginot Line and fall victim to the Halo's?

  • 01.08.2011 12:33 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: mchalo and fries
He hasnt been part of the Forerunner flood war because in the remaining 2 books to be released he will battle the flood. Since Didact was most likely executed, BornStellar will become a reincarnated version of Didact and it is his records you see in the terminals.

But according to Cryptum and the Terminals the Forerunner had been battling the Flood for several hundred years. Through that time the Didact's correspondence with the Librarian seem to show that he had been fighting the entire time and the Halos and Ark weren't created until the very end. But apparently he was in exile the whole time now.

Mendicant was created to lead a fleet into the center of the galaxy to capture and destroy the Gravemind not to create the Halos.

The discovery of the Humans by the Librarian is also thrown off. In the terminals she didn't find and catalog them until the end of the war which is why she was stranded on Earth. If she knew about them the whole time and had them cataloged why would she need to cross the Maginot Line and fall victim to the Halo's?


The Librarian wont be stranded till later. MB was not created to capture the Gravemind, just study it and attack it. Using the Halos is a form of attacking. This novel was well written with canon in mind. I have faith that the remaining two books will clear much debate.

  • 01.08.2011 12:35 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Spartan1065
Mendicant was created to lead a fleet into the center of the galaxy to capture and destroy the Gravemind not to create the Halos.


Faber commissioned the Halos to be built, it doesn't say anywhere that Bias was to create them.

  • 01.08.2011 12:38 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Spartan1065
Mendicant was created to lead a fleet into the center of the galaxy to capture and destroy the Gravemind not to create the Halos.


Faber commissioned the Halos to be built, it doesn't say anywhere that Bias was to create them.

Indeed I did not remember what the book said correctly. It was not to create them but to:

"Designed to coordinate control of some of the installations"
p307

"Mendicant Bias conducted the test at Charum Hakkor"
p308

So his purpose seems to have been changed from attacking the Gravemind to testing and operating the Halo array.

[Edited on 01.08.2011 12:49 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 12:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Spartan1065
Mendicant was created to lead a fleet into the center of the galaxy to capture and destroy the Gravemind not to create the Halos.


Faber commissioned the Halos to be built, it doesn't say anywhere that Bias was to create them.

Indeed I did not remember what the book said correctly. It was not to create them but to:

"Designed to coordinate control of some of the installations"
p307

"Mendicant Bias conducted the test at Charum Hakkor"
p308

So his purpose seems to have been changed from attacking the Gravemind to testing and operating the Halo array.


Could test firing a Halo be doubled up with attacking the Gravemind?

(I'm not done with the book yet. I'm just throwing up general continuity retcon strategies)

  • 01.08.2011 12:51 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

FleetAdmiralBob
In the Terminals Mendicant was, from the time he was created, given control of a fleet and sent back across the line to attack the Gravemind. During that time he sent reports about his progress back to the Ark none of which included a report about testing the Halos. Which I think would have been given to the Librarian and Didact as they were the leaders at the time, at least in the Terminals.

Then in the Terminals it says in a fairly specific way that once he found the Gravemind he continued to send reports to the Ark but Didact and the Librarian weren't responding to him. Then he eventually stopped communicating and led the Flood across the Line.

But in the book he stops communicating withe the Ark after the test firing of the Halo at Charum Hakkor and he brings the last Precursor onto the Halo installation. Bit of an altered story line wouldn't you say?

  • 01.08.2011 12:56 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Born states our perspective of the Forerunner story is warped; not entirely true, but not entirely untrue.
I think you are misinterpreting the quote. How could he possibly be commenting on the validity of our (future humanity's) perspective of the story when he isn't around to know what our perspective is? The terminals all have a notice at the top which states "RECORDED VERBATIM", I don't think those interpretations can be false if they are literally the same as the actual words spoken at the time.

As for the discrepencies/oddities/history lesson, bear with me...

When was Mendicant created and for what purpose?

In the terminals Mendicant was created with the sole purpose of observing and then eventually engaging the Gravemind. D: We have the answer. We've built Mendicant Bias. It's a contender class [AI], unlike anything we've ever achieved. And we've observed a pattern it can exploit.The parasite has formed a Compound Mind. When it reaches a certain mass, the Mind is able to recoil its disparate parts to create a [tactical shield]. This is a simple matter of mass preservation. The thing has no compunction about sacrificing parts of the whole. But when the core of the Mind is threatened, it reacts violently and quickly. (Source Terminal Three) Additionally, Mendicant was created at least after plans for the Halo Array were discussed (most likely, but not necessarily, after they had been built) It's a dangerous plan that carries more risk than the Array, but I believe it can work(Source Terminal Three). This shows the Mendicants primary purpose was not to take charge of the Array but to observe and combat the Flood.

The book seems to comply with when Mendicant was created (prior to Didact entering the Cryptum). When Mendicant enters the Council Chambers, Didact labels him as "Our bastard child, his and mine" (pg. 300). Implying that he had a hand in creating Mendicant, which he only could have done prior to entering the Cryptum (1,000 years prior to the story). Additionally, in the book, it seems Mendicant was created as a means to defend the Forerunner's empire in times of emergency and to control some aspects of some of the Halo installations, "My designers built in latent control of all systems in the capital, should an emergency arise" (pg. 302) "[He was] designed to coordinate control of some of the installations. Also given the power, in emergencies, to coordinate the entire galaxy's response to attack" (pg. 307) instead of being created to study and observe the Flood.

It seems then that in the terminals Mendicant was created to study and eventually combat the Flood. We do not know how long after he was created that he was sent on this mission, but we do know that he was in contact with the an intelligence seeking to turn him (presumably the Gravemind), at the very earliest, three years into the mission. "[29,478 hours] have passed since I left the [Maginot] sphere and entered contested space" and (From the same entry, Terminal One) "Is this the noble sacrifice my creators spoke of? Where is the nobility in these streets paved with greasy carbon and dun ash? [My mouth is speaking at another's behest] - that is not my voice; that is the other."
In the book it seems Mendicant sat essentially dormant for close to 1,000 years before conducting the test at Charum Hakkor, 43 years prior to the events in the book, and releasing the captive.

Discrepancy in Didact's age / Time spent fighting the Flood
In the terminals it seems Mendicant was only active for 300 years (and that the Didact never went into the Cryptum). In Terminal Three, right after Didact states that he created Mendicant Bias (which we proved had to occur before he entered the Cryptum) the Librarian, in response to the plan, states, Have you learned nothing in these last [300 years[?]]? The thing will laugh at your efforts! It seems then that the Forerunner were fighting the Flood 300 years prior Didact entering the Cryptum. However, in Terminal Seven, as Mendicant crosses the line Didact (who, if we follow the book would now be Bornsteller) states And [300 years] of our society's failure and miscalculation makes me your executioner. But this occurred after he entered the Cryptum. Shouldn't it be 1,300 years of our societies failures? It seems in the terminals that the Forerunner war against the Flood lasted 300 years whereas in the book it has lasted over 1,300 years.

  • 01.08.2011 1:32 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

dibbs089
The first person to moderately agree with me.

  • 01.08.2011 2:20 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

Posted by: Shishka
Everything will be gone long before me. When the first living thing was born, I was here, waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job is finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn out the lights and lock the universe behind me when I leave.

Posted by: dibbs089
However, in Terminal Seven, as Mendicant crosses the line Didact (who, if we follow the book would now be Bornsteller) states And [300 years] of our society's failure and miscalculation makes me your executioner. But this occurred after he entered the Cryptum. Shouldn't it be 1,300 years of our societies failures? It seems in the terminals that the Forerunner war against the Flood lasted 300 years whereas in the book it has lasted over 1,300 years.
When does the book say 1300 years? Also, has it been totally confirmed that LF.Xx.3272 is the gravemind? After rereading the terminals, I almost think it could be that Precursor prisoner. Here's what I think happened:

10,000 BC (Before Cryptum) - Forerunners learn about the Flood after they defeat Humanity
10-9,000 BC- Mendicant Bias is built to study LF.Xx.3272
9,000 BC - Didact is sent to his Cryptum
~9,000 - 0 BC - MB talks with LF.Xx.3272 and turns on the Forerunner
< 300 BC* - The Flood return and the Forerunners start fighting
0 BC - Cryptum events
< 300 AC* (After Cryptum) - Librarian is trapped on Earth
- Didact fires the Halo rings
- Offensive Bias defeats MB at the Battle of the Ark

* I say "< 300 BC/AD" because the Librarian says they've been fighting the Flood for the past 300 years, and that obviously takes place after Cryptum. So the war, Cryptum, and some Terminals encompass some span of 300 years.

  • 01.08.2011 3:12 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: ODST27
Posted by: dibbs089
However, in Terminal Seven, as Mendicant crosses the line Didact (who, if we follow the book would now be Bornsteller) states And [300 years] of our society's failure and miscalculation makes me your executioner. But this occurred after he entered the Cryptum. Shouldn't it be 1,300 years of our societies failures? It seems in the terminals that the Forerunner war against the Flood lasted 300 years whereas in the book it has lasted over 1,300 years.
When does the book say 1300 years? Also, has it been totally confirmed that LF.Xx.3272 is the gravemind? After rereading the terminals, I almost think it could be that Precursor prisoner. Here's what I think happened:

10,000 BC (Before Cryptum) - Forerunners learn about the Flood after they defeat Humanity
10-9,000 BC- Mendicant Bias is built to study LF.Xx.3272
9,000 BC - Didact is sent to his Cryptum
~9,000 - 0 BC - MB talks with LF.Xx.3272 and turns on the Forerunner
< 300 BC* - The Flood return and the Forerunners start fighting
0 BC - Cryptum events
< 300 AC* (After Cryptum) - Librarian is trapped on Earth
- Didact fires the Halo rings
- Offensive Bias defeats MB at the Battle of the Ark

* I say "< 300 BC/AD" because the Librarian says they've been fighting the Flood for the past 300 years, and that obviously takes place after Cryptum. So the war, Cryptum, and some Terminals encompass some span of 300 years.

But in the Terminals the Didact had been leading the war effort through out the entire war against the Flood. But in Cryptum Didact was in his hibernation.

  • 01.08.2011 5:37 PM PDT

I'm trying very hard not to hate this Greg Bear person.

From what I've heard so-far, he's destroyed what I've considered to be Halo's backstory. -blam!-.

I'l have to actually read Cryptum before making a decision on whether or not it's all been convoluted beyond repair.

  • 01.08.2011 5:45 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Spartan1065

Just so many things seem to be wrong, I don't understand why new canon can't be created, aka Cryptum and Reach, without subverting established canon...


From the first Page of the book:


THE FORERUNNER STORY - the history of my people - has been told many times, with greater and greater idealization, until I scarcely recognize it.
Some of the ideals are factually true. The Forerunners were sophisticated above all other empires and powerful almost beyond measure. Our ecumene spanned three million fertile worlds. We had achieved the greatest heights of technology and physical knowledge, at least since the time of the Precursors, who, some say, shaped us in their image, and rewarded that image with their breath.
The tugging threads of this part of the tale - the first of three - are journey, daring, betrayal, and fate.

My fate, the fate of a foolish Forerunner, was joined one night with the fates of two humans and the long world-line of a great military leader...that night on which I put in motion the circumstances that triggered the final wave of the hideous Flood.
So be this tale told, so be the telling true.


From what I gather, some of what we were told before, was a lie. Was false, incorrect. This story, is the true story. This is a first hand experience, where as the Terminals, for example, weren't.

Normally I LOATHE, retconning, but when it's this well done, and explained this way, I'm fine with it.

  • 01.08.2011 5:57 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Spartan1065

Just so many things seem to be wrong, I don't understand why new canon can't be created, aka Cryptum and Reach, without subverting established canon...


From the first Page of the book:


THE FORERUNNER STORY - the history of my people - has been told many times, with greater and greater idealization, until I scarcely recognize it.
Some of the ideals are factually true. The Forerunners were sophisticated above all other empires and powerful almost beyond measure. Our ecumene spanned three million fertile worlds. We had achieved the greatest heights of technology and physical knowledge, at least since the time of the Precursors, who, some say, shaped us in their image, and rewarded that image with their breath.
The tugging threads of this part of the tale - the first of three - are journey, daring, betrayal, and fate.

My fate, the fate of a foolish Forerunner, was joined one night with the fates of two humans and the long world-line of a great military leader...that night on which I put in motion the circumstances that triggered the final wave of the hideous Flood.
So be this tale told, so be the telling true.


From what I gather, some of what we were told before, was a lie. Was false, incorrect. This story, is the true story. This is a first hand experience, where as the Terminals, for example, weren't.

Normally I LOATHE, retconning, but when it's this well done, and explained this way, I'm fine with it.

The terminals were comminuques between Didact and the Librarian and reports given by Mendicant pre betrayal. How exactly could those be fake. Especially if they were stored on the Ark the core of the Librarian's power.

  • 01.08.2011 7:16 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

MB was obviously a part of the Ark at this point. Who's to say he didn't modify it?

We also know nothing of the Arks Monitor at the time, who's to say he didn't modify these logs or terminals either?

Hell, this was only the first book, everything can still be explained within the next two books.

  • 01.08.2011 7:19 PM PDT

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